Juggernaut Threat

[FalcoLombardi]

This guy has obviously not tanked before in SWTOR... If we had a threat meter we could do what you are saying, otherwise it's just guess work. I think most people here understand how to use taunt. The problem is that once your taunts are on cooldown you have to deal with runaway mobs or ops bosses since other abilities do not generate enough threat.

 

I could care less for a damage buff as a tank, since my damage sucks anyway compared to real dps classes. The only thing we need is a boost to the threat abilities generate. If I am using all my abilities there should be no reason I should lose agro as a tank. Also, I don't want a one button aggro either.

 

You know people tanked just fine long before threat meters and did DPS just fine before combat logs.

 

You're not gonna keep perfect aggro of everything as a tank. It's just not gonna happen. Juggernaut threat is fine (Defense tree does need some tweaking) but you just gotta play it right

[Shadowcatra]

I have noticed that in the first 30 seconds of a fight is the hardest to maintain threat. However most of the time it is just the Off Tank trying to maintain second on threat (In fights that need an OT). Or it is just a Melee DPS blowing through his heat or resources too quick to do as much dmg as possibl in that time that they pull more threat than can be generated.

 

Ops fights that I've had threat issues on: (Mind you mostly Rakata geared now)

 

Annihilation Droid XRR-3 (Up until the first knockback)

Gharj (Once and while a dps pulls, but mostly he is very controlled)

Soa (P1 only and that is because he is mostly Immune for the first couple of secs)

Jarg & Sorno (Occasionally in the first pull a dps can pull threat, but that is rare)

Foreman Crusher (If he knocks me back and at the beginning of the pull)

Kargga (Sometimes a dps will pull)

 

Also a side note that every time I say a dps pulls, it is the same freaking one. He is the only person in my ops who does it.

[Godzillamax]

Just got done tanking EV and one thing I noticed tonight is that many boss mobs seem to do an aggro-wipe multiple times during their encounter. For example, when Gharj leaps from one platform to another he appears to wipe his threat and will go after whoever at that point in time generates threat first. I believe when SOA first comes out of his immunity shield he also wipes threat. I save my backhand for these points in the encounter and have far fewer problems getting and maintaining aggro. My guess is aggro wiping mobs are probably the cause of a lot of Jugg tank heartache because they believe they are losing aggro to the DPSers simply generating more threat when in reality it's a mechanic of the fight causing an aggro wipe.

 

Normally on a pull I start with saber throw and force charge. This builds 6 rage. I follow up with smash then force scream then backhand. Usually this opener builds sufficient threat. Personally, I don't include my taunts in my routine rotation and instead I save them for when I do lose aggro. Gharj is a good example of when to save your taunt. After he jumps from one platform to the next he will stun you (the tank), wipe aggro, and and then make a B line for your healer or that one DPSers in your raid that always starts doing damage just a second too soon (usually resulting in his death and subsequent griping about not getting heals). If your Unleashed is up use it, and then you can immediately taunt Gharj to you. If it is not up, well then you best hope your OT can quickly pick him up until the stun wears off of you.

 

As a Jugg tank I really don't have that bad of a problem getting and maintaining aggro in an Operation (and hardmode FPs are a piece of cake) unless it's a fairly large pack of mobs like those dogs things just before Gharj or some of the trash packs clearing up to to the puzzle encounter. Granted, my tanking experience is limited to EV (have yet to do Karagga's or EV on nightmare mode). Do I wish Jugg tanks generated more AoE threat? Sure. But then if we did it would somewhat render the two tank classes that are supposed to excel at AoE tanking (Powertechs and Assassins) pretty much secondary tanks to Juggs. If Jugg tanks were best at single target and very good at AoE, why even roll a Powertech or Assassin for tanking purposes?

 

If there was any change I would like to see to Jugg tanks it would either be a talent in the Immortal tree that reduced the cooldown of backhand, and/or a talent that increased threat generation to Smash.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Godzillamax

[thorizdin]

If there was any change I would like to see to Jugg tanks it would either be a talent in the Immortal tree that reduced the cooldown of backhand, and/or a talent that increased threat generation to Smash.

 

Agreed, we don't need anything but either of these would be nice.

[Battilea]

If there was any change I would like to see to Jugg tanks it would either be a talent in the Immortal tree that reduced the cooldown of backhand, and/or a talent that increased threat generation to Smash.

 

Personally, I'd rather see the high threat aspect moved to an attack without a stun component. That way, it could be something that can be used with reasonable frequency.

[Darkabysslord]

I tryed everything 1 boost my treat got all datacron's, got better gear, trade endurace for str, and went hybrid and im ot much better so I restat 2 DPS rage and not I C how bad jug tank R that Ive dps for all tank classes. Even with better gear ive seen tank of other class with better armor, Hp and with a threat that works. Ive been turned down 4 a group needing tank becuace im a Jugg, Hell Ive turn down Jug tank saying sry I need a real tank. And the thing that sucks is Ive had Healers not heal me if I my treat break on even 1 enemy letting me DIE. I've started playing a Powertech, now there's A tank Class that works. But i do like being A Sith Force user Just wish it worked Right, I sucks having other be Mean and Rude just because I a Useless Tank!

[Midichlorien]

All I can say is that I am struggling with threat and not only with AE threat, but single target threat too...and with the tank mechanics of the Juggernaut in general.

 

My personal drama I experienced the first time Kaon hc, where we did the Rakghul event without the two cannons in front of the cave opening. A healer eaten alive by mobs and standing there as a 20k buffed tank (a mix of crafted Rakata belt and wrists, crafted columi earpieces, other minor crafted stuff and the T1 PvP light tank sword) without any rage and everything on cooldown isn't fun really. To get a smash on moving mobs (while your jump is on cooldown and you have to run to them) is like winning the lottery.

 

Single Target tanking in HC flashpoint enrage encounters does work for me, but it's really "hard work" and a new experience for me to loose regularly aggro to DD classes (especially well played Marauders) while I do smash skill after skill on cd (the high damage skills at priority for dps and threat, the others for rage build up) while caring not to leave one little time window between the end of the global cooldown and the next skill execution. You are able to solve that (at least for the most cases) with your Taunt skill, but it's really new for me that a taunt (formerly only an emergency skill) is now an emergency skill used on cd.

 

Add to that the sheer number of buttons and the speed you have to execute skills as a Juggernaut, add to that continous responsibility for interrupting mobs and add to that our magificient UI, where I have problems to get all my skills on the central bar (Jug tanks still use a ton) and compare that to the six-button-tanking of Assassins (with much better AE threat generation btw).

 

...and you will start to think over your class decision.

 

I am expecting lots of comments now in the way "it's good as it is", "At last tanking isn't easy mode again", "L2p noob" or else", but sorry guys, it doesn't bother me.

 

I am leveling my sorcerer instead - a really "finished" and well thought class - will throw my heals or lightnings from range and will applaud the tank for its hard work, while I get my epix. It's called effort-benefit-analysis and clever players always do this.

 

That's my experience at least at moment.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Midichlorien

[Pe-Te]

Just got done tanking EV and one thing I noticed tonight is that many boss mobs seem to do an aggro-wipe multiple times during their encounter.

 

I dont have problems in BOSS tanking, ofc there are times when you might loose aggro because of high dps, but thats common and nothing that one single taunt wont fix. Yet i think tanks primary job isnt doing perfect DPS rotation to keep aggro, so slight buff to single threat would be in order. 1 min cd on ONLY high threat skill for a tank, *** BW are you retarded ?

 

The thing ive seen, bosses do a lot of random player attacks and sometimes tanks think these are aggroloss when infact they are not. A very good hint is NOT to taunt straight away if you suspect you lost aggro ( on boss that will not start straight away walking to the new target ) just keep doing your normal rotation, see if you get any retaliation procs ( obviously doesnt work on SOA ) and if the boss turns back at you.

 

IF the boss clearly moves or does multiple attacks to another player, then use taunt. At start i noticed i wasted my taunt cd's when he did these random attacks and if i after that actually LOST aggro, i had nothing to get it back.

 

Some idiot here suggested a taunt before you actually even lost aggro. Thats a WASTE of threat. Use taunts when you KNOW you lost aggro.

 

Even the aoe threat on thrash is usually ok, if im talking about a full melee group of mobs ( mainly EV ) and i have my aoe taunt up. Frenzy, Sabre throw, charge, smash + sweep strike, sunder, slow... when you loose aggro taunt. mobs should be all dead before you run into trouble.

 

If theres ranged mobs in the pack just give up, you cant keep aggro on them all, focus on the champions and healers will heal the damage taken up pretty easily. What a true melee tank actually needs is a THREE target chain grip to grab the ranged mobs into a range you actually can do something to them. Other tanks have AOE ranged abilitys, while we dont. Gotta make up that with something. And melee vs ranged you should allways give melee slight dps advantage to compensate moving.

 

Yet BW dropped ball on both of those basic ideas.

[Midichlorien]

Some idiot here suggested a taunt before you actually even lost aggro. Thats a WASTE of threat. Use taunts when you KNOW you lost aggro.

 

Nobody really knows how threat generation really works in this game. At moment the ruling theory is, that threat is dps based + some skills which add a special dose of threat (Soresu, backhand for example, but even Soresu is - according the tool tip - dps based). There is another theory, who claim that threat is generated by the number of attacks aka skill executions someone does, with some exceptionial skills who give some bonus threat.

 

Personally I believe into the first theory. Otherwise the 31 point talent in the immortal tree as a high damage attack in the so called tank tree would not make any sense and being able to skill the strength enhancement in the vengeance tree (for more dps and therefore threat), but not being able to reach the endurance enhancement in the vengeance tree (with an 31 immortal build) would make even less sense.

 

Not only threat generation in general is arguable, the effect of our single taunt is it too. Some people claim, that our taunt does not only push you on the number 1 slot of the hate list, but adds bonus threat (slot Nr. 1 + x % bonus threat) too. In the later case it might make sense to use this skill as part of a rota and not as a pure emergency skill. It just depends on the amount of the bonus threat (but nobody knows this amount). If the amount is too small or if the taunt does push you just on Nr. 1 of the hate list with some seconds forced aggro, then you are right, it should be used only as emergency skill.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Midichlorien

[thorizdin]

The Feb 17th developer Q&A told us exactly how taunt works. We also know that threat works off of Damage. If you're losing aggro to melee DPS then put your guard on that person and use Intercede on a regular basis. Trust me that Mara's need the help in terms of survivability.

 

Fu-bear: Can you please confirm the exact mechanics behind Taunts? The tooltips purely state that it forces a mob to attack for X seconds, yet I've read reports that the skill appears to equalise threat like a traditional taunt. Can you clarify this?

 

Georg Zoeller: Taunts work in two ways. First, they instantly put you on top of the target’s threat list. Then, they place a short duration effect on the taunted target forcing them to attack you. Assuming that you then lose threat (say, you just stand there) the NPC will be forced to attack you for the duration of the Taunt. Afterwards, the AI will resume attacking targets based on threat order. If another Taunt is applied after yours, the most recently applied Taunt takes precedence.

 

Please note this is assuming regular threat rules – there are certain situations in the game, especially unique boss fights, which may cause NPCs to specifically ignore targets. In these cases, an ignored target will not be able to gain threat even with a taunt. In general, these situations are messaged to the player through effects on their buff bar – something we’re looking to make more visible in the future.

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-feb-17th-2012

[Pe-Te]

Yeh, did read that previously.

 

There is NO extra threat given to tank after taunt. But in order to DPS overaggro they have to A) first wait for the taunt forced aggro to timeout B) and overaggro you with normal multipliers, aka in melee 110% and 130% in ranged ( or atleast thats how most think aggro works in TOR ).

 

So that might seem to give a threat increase to the tank. If that 110%/130% aggrolimit is how TOR does things, i can only see two possible ways how it works.

 

If you use your taunt in a rotation, you are screwing yourself out of good amount of threat. As you are the highest person in the threat list you wont gain any "extra threat". If someone overaggros you from ranged ( goes over 130% ) a taunt will put you to THAT level of threat with the 6 second forced aggro.

 

Effectively you gain 30% threat and on top of that your top ranged DPS have to gain ANOTHER 30% over you to regain aggro again. What kinda explains how in longer fights there are no real worries of you not keeping aggro.

 

With current threat generation loosing aggro on purpose might seem a valid way to do it on some bosses. Let DPS use their biggest damage skills at pull, take that aggrolevel from them with a taunt and THEN slap your own high threat skill ( gg, BW ) in there giving you best possible start at a cost of one taunt.

 

Or maybe it might be that if ranged is at 115% and you taunt you gain that 15% with a taunt, while if you waited untill you lost aggro, you would have gain extra 15% threat compared to using taunt in rotation. Not to mention you would have one extra taunt cd to use if needed.

 

Either way, but IMO its just plain stupid to taunt in rotation, wait for overaggro and get the max benefit from it. Only NEGATIVE thing might be that in that timeframe that you loose aggro you miss out on a retaliation proc or on very rarely DPS might die. As aggro is problem in start of matches, i cant see anyone dying or healers must be AFK.

 

[Midichlorien]

We also know that threat works off of Damage.

 

The thing with taunts was my opinion too, I personally use it only as emergency skill too.

 

...but general threat mechanics working off damage is hard to believe.

 

If the theory is true that the number of attacks determine your threat level (and the attacks have certain threat boni, like 1 for a normal attack, 1,5 for a normal attack in Soresu or even 2 or 2,5 for a backhand in Soresu for example) you just have to use your skills with lowest animation times (so never use your channeled ravage or choke), hitting global cooldown independent skills like Retaliation whenever possible (I guess everybody does this anyways, at least I do, because its a really nice skill with moderate damage and defence boni if skilled, no wasted rage at least) and your group gives you a headstart of maybe 3 to 5 skill executions and you will never loose aggro. Your weapon would provide you with some health and moral boni, but the dps rating would be irrelevant, your weapon would be a big glowing lolly you carry around with yourself to impress people.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Midichlorien

[thorizdin]

Either way, but IMO its just plain stupid to taunt in rotation, wait for overaggro and get the max benefit from it. Only NEGATIVE thing might be that in that timeframe that you loose aggro you miss out on a retaliation proc or on very rarely DPS might die. As aggro is problem in start of matches, i cant see anyone dying or healers must be AFK.

 

Yep, the MOST efficient method is wait until you lose aggro and then taunt. If you're quick you get the taunt off just as the boss is turning away from you and there isn't any extra damage to your DPS. You can also taunt proactively once you get a feel for when your gonna hit an aggro drop. One thing that SWTOR does more than most MMOs is build in aggro drops (besides just SOA's broke mechanic). Gharj either drops or forgets because of time each time he jumps to a new island while some of the bosses stick to you like glue once you get to the top of the threat stack.

Edited February 24, 2012 by thorizdin

[Midichlorien]

We also know that threat works off of Damage.

 

I took a closer look on the so called source for this idea threat working off of damage...

 

You guys are able to read a text and understand a topic, aren't you?

 

Threat mechanics

1 damaging ability is equal to 1 threat (100%)

1 healing ability is equal to 0.5 threat (50%)

Soresu form will ad 0.5 (50%).

Abilities with threat modifiers will have a increased threat equal to 0.5 threat (50%)

 

Meaning that all your abilties with no build in threat modifiers will do 1.5 (150%) threat and an ability such as Hilt strike will do 2.0 threat (200%)

 

That may sound super overpowered threat wise. But remember that threat is builded and not based on a GCD vs GCD roll.

 

To aggro a hostile melee npc - you must trumph the current threat holder by 1.1 (110%).

To aggro a ranged hostile npc - you must trumph the current threat holder by 1.3 (130%).

 

So to aggro the mob as fast as possible, the current threat holder must stop attacking that mob for 3-4 GCD's in a taunt-on-cd situation.

 

Be aware of this while tanking, always be aware of dps hitting the wrong mob, so you dont get too far behind on threat.

 

Getting behind on threat on a non kill target is double suicide(provided taunt is on cd or the dps keeps being an idiot by not sticking to the kill target). Since while you are trying to aggro the stray mob, you are most likely to loose aggro on your current kill target mob.

 

With not one single word, these rules for threat mechanics imply that threat works off of damage values. The number 0.5, 1, 1.5 just stand for the (cumulative, not additive) % multiplier (50%, 100%, 150%) which is based on what? On damage of course. A percent value makes only sense, if you have a reference value, which is - of course - damage.

 

I would have been totally marvelled, if BW would have invented a new rocket science threat system, while they already struggle with UIs.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Paralassa

[thorizdin]

The exact multipliers were gleaned from looking at files in the client. These give us some idea, but since the mob aggro code runs server side these aren't necessarily the correct values for how the game is working at any given time because the client side info was probably put there as a reference to make debugging easier.

 

tl;dr we know that damage has a direct impact on threat and that Soresu and other modifiers increase that effect.

[Pe-Te]

Actually i had some problems sleeping and was thinking about the jugg threat ( both in single and aoe ). In perivous post i allready threw in the idea on purpose loose aggro for a second to gain max benefit from taunts.

 

Example 1:

 

SOA phase 1 start. Lets assume normal "balls to the wall" type DPS from start with relics, bloodlust etc. IMO it actually might be beneficial to guard a melee dps, put armor + hit debuffs on boss... wait about 5 seconds letting the boss target the highest ( pref ranged ) DPS.

 

Idea i had behind is that you on purpose let the dps go nuts and then taunt effectively doing same amount of threat for the first 5+ seconds. If a TANK does lets say 2k dps, ( ranged ) DPS needs to for overaggro to do 1.5x ( lets put another 0.3 for our high treat one shot there ), meaning 1.8x and then multiply that with the aggro +30% variable. We get a number 2.34x.

 

So if you do lets say on average 2kdps, any DPS peaking over 5k will overaggro.

 

Then lets say DPS does 8k first hit, then 2x 4k hits. There is absolutely NO way a juggernaut tank can keep aggro on dps like that ( and those arent that uncommon what i hear ). Im thinking it would be best to let the DPS go nuts, reserve your high threat hit untill AFTER you taunt because its going to be WASTED anyways. You cant keep aggro, every bit of threat you gain is reseted to highest DPS level when you taunt. So why not use the 1min cd ( *** BW ) after the taunt, where it actually means something.

 

To say it diffenrently, you do your normal damage start and use all your skills to max with adrenalines etc. AND STILL LOOSE AGGRO. Let them overaggro and then on top of that you smack your high threat stuff putting a quite a bit of margin to work with.

 

Same idea with aoe packs. You charge in to the closest target and only use force choke/slow/knockback/stuns to keep em slowed and packed in for maximum time ( at this time DPS has used all their best AOE skills, you taunt and say TY for the threat and then do your normal aoe threat rotations.

 

Or with 2 tanks you could do 1 tank going in, doing all their max aoe abilitys, 2nd tank aoe taunts, does his moves and then the first tank aoe taunts back. Should keep all the mobs untill they are dead.

[FalcoLombardi]

I take it you don't read the forums much.

 

Threat is indeed our main problem area/area of improvement needed. And you will find many topics on this in this forum and how people would recommend improving them.

 

Everything from increasing the threat on Soresu to making Force Scream a cone AOE.

 

None of that is required. In fact that would make us slightly better than other tanks. Sweeping Slash is our cone AoE and we got Smash.

 

What we need is Sweeping Slash to do a bit more damage. Which could be achieved by combining Heavy Handed with Decimate and replace Heavy Handed with Huddle.

 

Decimate would be: Increases Smashes damage by 13>26>39% and Sweeping Slashes damage by 8>16>24%. In addition Smashes cool down is reduced by 1>2>3 seconds.

 

Huddle would be the same except it doesn't apply the threat lower to you

 

Also move Solidified Force in to the the Vengeance tree and put Unstoppable in it's place. Change Solidified Force to reduce the Focus cost of Force Freeze and Impale.

 

Replace huddle in the Vengeance tree with something skill that would reduce your threat by 10>20% and increase your damage by 2>4% for 4-6 seconds..However long the Guardian leap lasts.

 

Change Endure Pain so you don't lose health. Like if you go above max, and it ends, you go back down to max. But if it's below max when it ends (say 14K out of 15K) it stays at 14K

[BlueRabbit]

On bosses:

 

I found holding threat a bit easier if you space your taunts out.. I open with taunt then backhand.. then use some of my abilities.. Sunderarmor, force scream, Etc... then drop my aoe taunt and back to abilities.. I wil not use taunt again unless i loss threat.. (remember - Tuant puts u at the top of the aggro chart over all) Therefore why waste it in ur rotation if u already have top aggro.. save it for the boss doing an aggro dump or if a dps pulls from you.. After 30 secs in if you still have threat you should be fine (unless a boss aggro dump..

 

If ur having trble in the first 30 sec of a fight ask dps to use there aggro dumps if they have them.. a

 

also like some else pointed out if ur waiting for a cd to reset u have intercede to help out whoever is getting attacked..

 

Its all about knowing bosses and ur abilities..

 

 

As for Mobs.. That the tricky but fun part.. Make sure your dps kills weak targets as you gather tougher one.. (weak targets go down real quick) by the time dps get to hard target u should have good threat.. Mark targets if u have to.. You are the tank.. Take control and let the dps know to FF a target.. If dps are on multiple targets it will be more difficult for you to hold complete aggro..

 

tanking is this game is more difficult but much more fun.. Who wants to sit there hit 3 buttons and watch everyone have fun while u stand still... no thanks..

 

My only wish is taunt had a shorter CD than 15 secs.. For the times bosses do knockbacks or aggro dumps...

Edited February 24, 2012 by BlueRabbit

[thorizdin]

Actually i had some problems sleeping and was thinking about the jugg threat ( both in single and aoe ). In perivous post i allready threw in the idea on purpose loose aggro for a second to gain max benefit from taunts.

 

Example 1:

 

SOA phase 1 start. Lets assume normal "balls to the wall" type DPS from start with relics, bloodlust etc. IMO it actually might be beneficial to guard a melee dps, put armor + hit debuffs on boss... wait about 5 seconds letting the boss target the highest ( pref ranged ) DPS.

 

Idea i had behind is that you on purpose let the dps go nuts and then taunt effectively doing same amount of threat for the first 5+ seconds. If a TANK does lets say 2k dps, ( ranged ) DPS needs to for overaggro to do 1.5x ( lets put another 0.3 for our high treat one shot there ), meaning 1.8x and then multiply that with the aggro +30% variable. We get a number 2.34x.

 

So if you do lets say on average 2kdps, any DPS peaking over 5k will overaggro.

 

Then lets say DPS does 8k first hit, then 2x 4k hits. There is absolutely NO way a juggernaut tank can keep aggro on dps like that ( and those arent that uncommon what i hear ). Im thinking it would be best to let the DPS go nuts, reserve your high threat hit untill AFTER you taunt because its going to be WASTED anyways. You cant keep aggro, every bit of threat you gain is reseted to highest DPS level when you taunt. So why not use the 1min cd ( *** BW ) after the taunt, where it actually means something.

 

To say it diffenrently, you do your normal damage start and use all your skills to max with adrenalines etc. AND STILL LOOSE AGGRO. Let them overaggro and then on top of that you smack your high threat stuff putting a quite a bit of margin to work with.

 

Same idea with aoe packs. You charge in to the closest target and only use force choke/slow/knockback/stuns to keep em slowed and packed in for maximum time ( at this time DPS has used all their best AOE skills, you taunt and say TY for the threat and then do your normal aoe threat rotations.

 

Or with 2 tanks you could do 1 tank going in, doing all their max aoe abilitys, 2nd tank aoe taunts, does his moves and then the first tank aoe taunts back. Should keep all the mobs untill they are dead.

 

 

This is absolutely correct but I'd say its almost always more beneficial to have guard on a melee dps since melee has a higher aggro multiplier (1.3 compared to 1.1) than ranged DPS. Also in many fights your ranged DPS and healers will be more than 15 meters away so guard is wasted anyhow. Of course all of this assumes you don't have a squishy target that needs to be guarded to stay alive.

[FalcoLombardi]

If there was any change I would like to see to Jugg tanks it would either be a talent in the Immortal tree that reduced the cooldown of backhand, and/or a talent that increased threat generation to Smash.

 

I don't know about Shadow/Assassin high threat attack, It's an AoE I believe which is fine.

 

But compared to the Powertech and Vanguard high threat attack. Ours is way better. If we reduced the cooldown on it we would need that talent in all other tanking trees too. Smash doesn't need a threat increase

[Locustone]

You know people tanked just fine long before threat meters and did DPS just fine before combat logs.

 

You're not gonna keep perfect aggro of everything as a tank. It's just not gonna happen. Juggernaut threat is fine (Defense tree does need some tweaking) but you just gotta play it right

 

That is the worst response ever... My point was referencing the previos posts incinuations regarding the ability to manage threat. This implies you have visibility on threat, which we don't. Therefore, unless we had a threat meter or they introduced combat logs there would be no way on actually managing threat in any real and informed manner. At least read the post before you respond.

 

Nobody has asked for perfect anything, but there is no reason why you should lose threat if you are doing everything you can to hold threat. I understand if we lose threat from not hitting a mob constantly or if you completely ignore a mob, but if you are in a group of enemies and you leap smash, sweep exaustivley, aoe taunt, intercede, guard and you still lose aggro then the system is broke.

[gsorreta]

I think it's just more of a gear/itemization issue.

 

I left on the surge from my rakata tanking gear, use the power rakata relics, have over 1400 str and added ravage to my tanking "rotation".

 

Now I have no real issues at all holding threat on a boss. I even forget to backhand at times and still hold on fine If I ever get distracted from wife aggro or the TV and lose aggro I just taunt it right away