Fun comparison

[Gankdalf_]

Not really trying to say ones better then the other or anything, or trying to stand on any side of any great issues, I'm just bored... So add to it if you remember anything.

 

Instanced PvP

SW:ToR: Shipped with 3 different types

WoW: Shipped with none. 7 months later 2 where released.

 

Queue Anywhere for PvP

SW:Tor shipped with this ability

WoW: Had to run to instance initially. Then warmasters were added later.

 

Raid Encounters:

SW:ToR: Shipped with 2

WoW: shipped with 2 (though 1 of those was a single boss encounter).

 

Dungeons:

SW:ToR: Shipped with 16 different dungeons.

WoW: Shipped with 14 different dungeons.

 

Outdoor PvP objectives:

SW:ToR Shipped with this feature

WoW: added 7 months after release.

 

Full Voice Acting:

SW:ToR: shipped with this feature

WoW: WotLK introduced cut-scenes but has never implemented voice acting

 

Class Specific Quests:

SW:ToR shipped with extensive class quests

WoW: Shipped with 5/6 class quests, but were so annoying, they have all been removed.

 

Quest/Map Locations:

SW:ToR: shipped with this feature

WoW: Was a third party mod (quest helper) that arrived 2 years after launch.

 

User Customization HUD:

SW:ToR - not implemented

WoW: shipped with this feature, along with third party customization

 

End Game Mounts:

SW:ToR: shipped with a wide array of mounts

WoW: Besides undead racial mount, end game mounts shared same model as level 40 mounts. Custom level 60 mounts where released 5 months after realease.

 

Level 60 Gear:

SW:ToR: Shipped with 3 Tiers of PvP gear, and 3 Teirs of Raid gear

WoW: Shipped with 1 Tier of Raid gear, and no PvP sets. Tier 2 raid gear was added 7 months after release, and PvP Tier 1 set was added 2 years after release.

 

Flipping DPS Meter:

SW:ToR doesn't have and its freaking annoying...

WoW: didn't ship with this feature, but 3rd party mods made it possible.

 

Achievements:

SW:ToR: shipped with this feature

WoW: added 4 years after launch

 

Classes/Races:

SW:ToR: 4 archetypes, 8 classes, 8 races

WoW: 9 classes (though each faction has 1 unique class) 8 races

 

Player Housing:

SW:ToR: shipped with a very limited player space (ships).

WoW: still not implemented

 

Crafting:

SW:ToR: 6 crafting 8 gathering

WoW: 8 crafting 4 gathering

 

Dual Spec'ing:

SW:ToR: not included at release

WoW: Added dual spec 4.5 years after release.

 

Looking For Group Tool:

SW:ToR: Didn't launch with this feature.

WoW: was added 2 years after launch.

 

Leveling to Max (AVERAGE):

SW:ToR: Level 50 in 6 IN-GAME days, or 144 hours, or 72 days as a casual gamer.

WoW: Level 60 in 17 IN-GAME days, or 408 hours, or 204 days as a casual player.

 

Ok, i got bored of making this list... Ill try and think of more game mechanics. But its interesting to see how certain systems we deem as NECESSARILY OMG we did without for so long. =) There is no going back i guess =)

 

LOL

 

You can't compare SWTOR to Vanilla wow, you have to compare it to WOW how it is NOW. Can you imagine if Ford released their new family car and compared it to cars that were build 7 years ago?

 

Bioware knew where the bar was when they made SWTOR, it was not at vanilla wow, it was exactly where MMO's were on 20th December 2011.

[Gankdalf_]

Also many of the items in the OP's list were actually pioneered in vanilla wow, that is where they were born. Vanilla wow was probably the most important time ever for MMO's it is why SWTOR even exists.

[Kinrain]

In response to the 'car analogy' posts I offer an alternative.

 

Why would you buy an 8 year old rotting tasteless economy hamburger when you can buy a nice fresh juicy steak?

 

WoW was and still is to some extent a very successfull game. But its based on a mind numbing grind first from level 1 to level 85 and then from one peice of gear to the next. Then the base numbers of HPs, Damage etc are scaled up to make that gear obsolete to force you to grind all over again for more gear only to have the numbers scaled up again so you have to continue ad nauseum.

 

WoW is a hamster wheel.

 

SWTOR at least, and despite its many flaws, offers an entertaining story for each of the classes. Thats enough for me.

[RabidPopcorn]

Cars costs many thousands of dollars (in most cases), and can be a significant cost per month if you have to obtain a bank loan.

 

Cars must be insured in most states in America in order to protect against damaging another person or their property.

 

Cars can kill you if you aren't operating them properly, or if someone else isn't operating theirs properly in your vicinity.

 

Cars are very much static devices, and once made of resources like steel, metals, fabrics, glass, plastics, and other elements that cannot be easily updated without a lot of work, outside of a few modification avenues.

 

Cars bought today are pretty much going to be the same vehicle in 4-6 years, accounting for degradation in the car's parts. There will be no new functionality added to the car with the exception of a few simple add-ons, like a bike rack or snow tires.

 

Cars serve as critical points of travel that often provide people a method of earning a living, obtaining food and needed supplies, reaching medical care centers.

 

Cars can be significantly damaged (sometimes beyond repair) if they aren't maintained properly, forcing the purchase of a new car.

 

Cars do not usually provide an easy method of fixing problems and glitches with their construction, as this often requires a lengthy trip to a dealership which then disables your use of the car for earning a living, obtaining food and needed supplies, etc.

 

Cars are mostly self-contained units that do not require compatibility with other hardware or software with the exception of perhaps gasoline pump nozzles and a few other items.

___

 

Game Software is relatively inexpensive, in this case a $60 outlay and $14.99 per month to continue using it.

 

Game Software is an abstract set of languages from binary up through complex programming code that is stored on some kind of digital media as a pattern of 0s and 1s.

 

Game Software can be easily upgraded by downloading new code that updates the old code.

 

Game Software can be significantly changed over the lifetime of its use, and large amounts of new functionality can be added, and old functionality altered or removed.

 

Game Software can be updated within a few minutes time with zero cost.

 

Game Software won't kill you.

 

Game Software used carelessly won't kill other people or damage their property.

 

Game Software not working properly for some reason isn't going to interfere with your primary life functions like earning a living, obtaining necessary food and supplies, obtaining medical care, and so forth.

 

Game Software isn't going to destroy itself due to lack of real-world maintenance on the part of the user.

 

Game Software provides very easy methods of updating it to fix problems and glitches and add new features.

 

Game Software (PC type) is entirely dependent on the host machine that will run the software, and must be designed in a way to work with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of possible variations in hardware used to render and execute that software into a usable form.

___

 

I'm sure we could go on but I'll stop there. Frankly, saying that some "look silly" seemed like a much faster method.

 

So the software industry is exceptional and cannot be compared to other industries?

 

There must be some comparisons we can draw; I am not invalidating your points as they all make sense on their own.

[Hahkil]

Yes let's take a look at the release of both games:

 

~Give them time~ What six years and 200+ million wasn't enough time? I will give them time, time to admit they failed on this MMO.

 

I thought your list was good, until you started saying "hero engine can't handle" then I released you were just jumping on a bandwagon without any prior knowledge...

[dupela]

nice list - i was playing WOW at launch and TBH i find the continual comparisons somewhat tiresome. Good to see someone point out that all the bits and pieces many people go on about in WOW didnt get included until reletively late in the piece. It took WOW a lot of time to get a lot of things right and you know the same applies here ... pretty sure they cant just like copy and paste code ... even in the digital world copyright applies Edited February 21, 2012 by dupela

[RabidPopcorn]

LOL

 

You can't compare SWTOR to Vanilla wow, you have to compare it to WOW how it is NOW. Can you imagine if Ford released their new family car and compared it to cars that were build 7 years ago?

 

Bioware knew where the bar was when they made SWTOR, it was not at vanilla wow, it was exactly where MMO's were on 20th December 2011.

 

Exactly. Games are designed to be competitive to what is forecasted to be available when the game is released; it is a given that a game set to release in 2011 would be 'better' than games released years before it, and not too far behind its contemporaries (2011 games).

Edited February 21, 2012 by RabidPopcorn

[Drannor]

SWTOR was great for 2 months, but let`s be serious - 2012 game should look like that:

 

[MustrumRidcully]

Yea, I mean who uses logic when they make their arguments, what jerks.

Logic?

 

Here is something to think about: Game development costs money. To make a game, you need to get some money upfront, e.g. have to make some form of debt. You expect to pay off the debt with the money you make when you release it. But to get that money, you have to guarantee that the debt you made will be repayed at a certain point, otherwise you'll get into trouble (make more debt to pay off the first, or go bankrupt.)

This, ultimately, dicates a certain release window when you have to release or it's too late.

 

If it wasn't possible for an already succesful game company in 2004 to deliver an MMO with fully-fledged engame content at release, why would it be different for an already succesful game company in 2011?

Where would be the logic in that assumption?

 

Maybe you say "but everyone knows that endgame content is important! They should prioritize it over the other stuff!" But then what do we get? A game where levelling is slow, boring and unfun because every quest is the same, and you're already grinding before you're at endgame? How many people would already give up way before they get there?

[Valceanu]

/snip snip

 

~Give them time~ What six years and 200+ million wasn't enough time? I will give them time, time to admit they failed on this MMO.

 

Perfect example of WoW fanboism. Blatant exaggeration doesnt help your case. Dont get me wrong i enjoyed that game for more then 4 years...then WotLK came and ruined it for me with features like some of you seem to deem necessary like dual-spec, cross-server lfg etc. Im sure the same will happen to TOR and ill end up playing it just because its SW and sci-fi (or sci-fantasy whatever). Still better then orcs, elves, dragons, dwarves, gnomes etc etc etc... im tired of the fantasy setting as a whole.

 

And while i do recognize this games flaws...i do not blow them out of proportion as some of you seem to. The level of entitlement as well as laziness in today's gamer is staggering... WoW generation at its best.

[Uruare]

back in my day games were made different. You had sticks and a ball. When a stick broke you made a new ones by cutting down a tree.

 

You youngins just don't know what it's like to cut down a tree.

 

 

You got -balls-?!

 

I just got a stick, man! Doubleyew Tee Eff!

 

And it was pre-dead (usually)!

[Uruare]

Perfect example of WoW fanboism. Blatant exaggeration doesnt help your case. Dont get me wrong i enjoyed that game for more then 4 years...then WotLK came and ruined it for me with features like some of you seem to deem necessary like dual-spec, cross-server lfg etc. Im sure the same will happen to TOR and ill end up playing it just because its SW and sci-fi (or sci-fantasy whatever). Still better then orcs, elves, dragons, dwarves, gnomes etc etc etc... im tired of the fantasy setting as a whole.

 

And while i do recognize this games flaws...i do not blow them out of proportion as some of you seem to. The level of entitlement as well as laziness in today's gamer is staggering... WoW generation at its best.

 

 

I'm completely bewildered of what dual spec could have possibly ruined for you or anybody.

 

 

Additionally, are you sure you aren't one of the zombified many that blamed LFD for issues long predating LFD and that were, even from the most popular positions of hating LFD, still the positional fault of paid-for name changes and server transfers and...not LFD?

 

I'm stumped by your assertion.

[Skoll]

I seem to recall that one or even both of WoW's initial 2 raid dungeons were bugged (intentionally or otherwise) to the point of them not being completable for the first few months. As a matter of fact, wasn't Onyxia pretty much locked off entirely at first?

[Valceanu]

I'm completely bewildered of what dual spec could have possibly ruined for you or anybody.

 

 

Additionally, are you sure you aren't one of the zombified many that blamed LFD for issues long predating LFD and that were, even from the most popular positions of hating LFD, still the positional fault of paid-for name changes and server transfers and...not LFD?

 

I'm stumped by your assertion.

 

Let me explain a bit then... what i love about TOR is that it is more of an RPG then any other MMO to date. Companions, story, meaningful choices are important to me. One of these choices is what role the player plays in a group. From where i stand dual-speccing detracts from the RPG value of an MMORPG. I dont care about convenience (which imho is laziness in disguise but lets skip on that) and all that jazz. I care about things being believable. For instance, to me, a heart surgeon switching to being a brain surgeon in the blink of an eye is not believable even though they share a base class (doctor) and an advanced class (surgeon)... suspension of disbelief just doesnt cut it for me. The way it is now at least there is a time&money requirement that is indicative of the cost of doing something like this even if its only symbolic.I mean, how many RPG's and even MMO's have you seen over the years that let you "change spec" before WoW? but like i said...thats just my personal view of it.

 

As for LFD... i said i hate the cross-server tool specifically. I think the server-only one is good. It has to do with bads and ninjas etc. I find that in a server-only situation these people can be easily identified and shunned my the community whereas when you play with people from other servers you have very little impact on their situation. But i will admit im biased in all this as i hate to PUG. Name changes and such also serve to help these people i will admit that but i dont think these features have a place in these games anyway...

[cs_Kimmo]

Leveling to Max (AVERAGE):

SW:ToR: Level 50 in 6 IN-GAME days, or 144 hours, or 72 days as a casual gamer.

WoW: Level 60 in 17 IN-GAME days, or 408 hours, or 204 days as a casual player.

 

tinyurl dot com slash 82xs688

Edited February 21, 2012 by cs_Kimmo

[Therrak]

There are many features that I believe Bioware skimped on when they released the game. That said, anyone who expected them to release the game with as much content and features as WoW has now are as ignorant as they come. Do you think Blizzard is going to release Titan with 20 raids, 50 dungeons and 10 battlegrounds all while being bug free? You're crazy if you think that's going to happen.

 

And don't give me this crap about cars either. Software in general, and games in particular, age nothing like cars do. If you really want to use an analogy to compare games to another industry, try wine. It still falls short, since a vintner isn't going to tinker with a barrel of wine while it ages, but it's a hell of a lot closer than comparing a PC game to a car.

 

What we should be focusing on are the features which should have been included with the release of the game as well as the bugs that plague our gameplay. What bugs me most is the lack of functionality for the GTN, as well as the ability to mod the ui. Also I wouldn't give a crap if they delayed the legacy system or some other form of content for another couple of months if they could smooth out the major bugs that are causing a lot of grief for people. A groupfinder is also necessary. I know on my server I can get a group for flashpoints or heroic quests easily on the Empire side, but if you switch to Republic you're going to have a hell of a time putting anything together.

 

I think those are realistic expectations. Expecting them to release a new op or fp every month or implementing every feature that WoW has most certainly isn't realistic.

[ckoneful]

Not really trying to say ones better then the other or anything, or trying to stand on any side of any great issues, I'm just bored... So add to it if you remember anything.

 

Instanced PvP

SW:ToR: Shipped with 3 different types

WoW: Shipped with none. 7 months later 2 where released.

 

Queue Anywhere for PvP

SW:Tor shipped with this ability

WoW: Had to run to instance initially. Then warmasters were added later.

 

Raid Encounters:

SW:ToR: Shipped with 2

WoW: shipped with 2 (though 1 of those was a single boss encounter).

 

Dungeons:

SW:ToR: Shipped with 16 different dungeons.

WoW: Shipped with 14 different dungeons.

 

Outdoor PvP objectives:

SW:ToR Shipped with this feature

WoW: added 7 months after release.

 

Full Voice Acting:

SW:ToR: shipped with this feature

WoW: WotLK introduced cut-scenes but has never implemented voice acting

 

Class Specific Quests:

SW:ToR shipped with extensive class quests

WoW: Shipped with 5/6 class quests, but were so annoying, they have all been removed.

 

Quest/Map Locations:

SW:ToR: shipped with this feature

WoW: Was a third party mod (quest helper) that arrived 2 years after launch.

 

User Customization HUD:

SW:ToR - not implemented

WoW: shipped with this feature, along with third party customization

 

End Game Mounts:

SW:ToR: shipped with a wide array of mounts

WoW: Besides undead racial mount, end game mounts shared same model as level 40 mounts. Custom level 60 mounts where released 5 months after realease.

 

Level 60 Gear:

SW:ToR: Shipped with 3 Tiers of PvP gear, and 3 Teirs of Raid gear

WoW: Shipped with 1 Tier of Raid gear, and no PvP sets. Tier 2 raid gear was added 7 months after release, and PvP Tier 1 set was added 2 years after release.

 

Flipping DPS Meter:

SW:ToR doesn't have and its freaking annoying...

WoW: didn't ship with this feature, but 3rd party mods made it possible.

 

Achievements:

SW:ToR: shipped with this feature

WoW: added 4 years after launch

 

Classes/Races:

SW:ToR: 4 archetypes, 8 classes, 8 races

WoW: 9 classes (though each faction has 1 unique class) 8 races

 

Player Housing:

SW:ToR: shipped with a very limited player space (ships).

WoW: still not implemented

 

Crafting:

SW:ToR: 6 crafting 8 gathering

WoW: 8 crafting 4 gathering

 

Dual Spec'ing:

SW:ToR: not included at release

WoW: Added dual spec 4.5 years after release.

 

Looking For Group Tool:

SW:ToR: Didn't launch with this feature.

WoW: was added 2 years after launch.

 

Leveling to Max (AVERAGE):

SW:ToR: Level 50 in 6 IN-GAME days, or 144 hours, or 72 days as a casual gamer.

WoW: Level 60 in 17 IN-GAME days, or 408 hours, or 204 days as a casual player.

 

Ok, i got bored of making this list... Ill try and think of more game mechanics. But its interesting to see how certain systems we deem as NECESSARILY OMG we did without for so long. =) There is no going back i guess =)

 

You're wrong on a bit of this. Dual spec was added a full 2 major content patches before the Dungeon Finder(3.1 and 3.3 respectively.) yet you have 2 way off times for each of these.

 

The class quests weren't ridiculously annoying, people actually clamor for more to this day.

 

DPS Meter should just be changed to combat log as that's what any meter pulls from.

 

Where do you pull your leveling averages from? My first 60 in vanilla had somewhere around 20 days played and both my 50s here had under 5 days played.(Shadow had just under 5, Gunslinger had just over 3.)

 

On PvP gear, blue and epic rank sets were definitely in long before 2 years as well. Trying to find dates on them but I can't but check wowpedia:

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/PvP-Rare

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/PvP-Epic

 

What's the World PvP they added 7 months into release? I remember raiding xroads and tarren mill but never remember any world pvp or incentives to do them other than fun. Especially with Dishonorable Kills existing back then.

[RabidPopcorn]

There are many features that I believe Bioware skimped on when they released the game. That said, anyone who expected them to release the game with as much content and features as WoW has now are as ignorant as they come. Do you think Blizzard is going to release Titan with 20 raids, 50 dungeons and 10 battlegrounds all while being bug free? You're crazy if you think that's going to happen.

 

And don't give me this crap about cars either. Software in general, and games in particular, age nothing like cars do. If you really want to use an analogy to compare games to another industry, try wine. It still falls short, since a vintner isn't going to tinker with a barrel of wine while it ages, but it's a hell of a lot closer than comparing a PC game to a car.

 

What we should be focusing on are the features which should have been included with the release of the game as well as the bugs that plague our gameplay. What bugs me most is the lack of functionality for the GTN, as well as the ability to mod the ui. Also I wouldn't give a crap if they delayed the legacy system or some other form of content for another couple of months if they could smooth out the major bugs that are causing a lot of grief for people. A groupfinder is also necessary. I know on my server I can get a group for flashpoints or heroic quests easily on the Empire side, but if you switch to Republic you're going to have a hell of a time putting anything together.

 

I think those are realistic expectations. Expecting them to release a new op or fp every month or implementing every feature that WoW has most certainly isn't realistic.

 

Fair comment, but won't you agree that even after taking in account of what you said, that SWTOR's UI is rather lacking? The UI is something every player has to deal with unlike end-game content (personally, end-game content is something I can wait for). And all the complaints about character responsiveness, and to a lesser extent, framerate issues, are these not very fundamental issues that are separate from "there isn't enough content" issues?

[Uruare]

Let me explain a bit then... what i love about TOR is that it is more of an RPG then any other MMO to date. Companions, story, meaningful choices are important to me. One of these choices is what role the player plays in a group. From where i stand dual-speccing detracts from the RPG value of an MMORPG.

 

I can definitely agree on personally valuing all of those as well. I suppose I place a differently spun value on dual speccing as a compromise on any of that though.

 

For me, I see it as kind've a meta-context thing that doesn't really factor for or against the quality of the whole matter. Just to share my own persective in kind 'ere continuing on.

 

 

I dont care about convenience (which imho is laziness in disguise but lets skip on that) and all that jazz. I care about things being believable. For instance, to me, a heart surgeon switching to being a brain surgeon in the blink of an eye is not believable even though they share a base class (doctor) and an advanced class (surgeon)... suspension of disbelief just doesnt cut it for me. The way it is now at least there is a time&money requirement that is indicative of the cost of doing something like this even if its only symbolic.I mean, how many RPG's and even MMO's have you seen over the years that let you "change spec" before WoW? but like i said...thats just my personal view of it.

 

 

Seems a very respectable position to have on it. I don't agree that convenience necessarily correlates to laziness, but that's not really the crux of anything you went on to describe either.

 

My take on it tends to run a more rationalized line of suspension of disbelief.

 

I think it could be really cool if there were some kind've story tie-in to unlocking a dual spec, for example -- some way to make it valuable in the story context and not a handwaved comment in the margins of the book, so to say.

 

Dunno if that analogy works outside my own head. Let me know if it doesn't?

 

 

 

 

As for LFD... i said i hate the cross-server tool specifically. I think the server-only one is good. It has to do with bads and ninjas etc. I find that in a server-only situation these people can be easily identified and shunned my the community whereas when you play with people from other servers you have very little impact on their situation. But i will admit im biased in all this as i hate to PUG. Name changes and such also serve to help these people i will admit that but i dont think these features have a place in these games anyway...

 

 

Where I differ seems to be less on the metric of underlying values so much as perspective, I think.

 

From where I see things, cross server LFD tools don't have to facilitate ninja looting issues at all; a loot distribution system could relatively easily be contrived upon to prevent that altogether, in fact.

 

As for 'bads', well...I'll admit that I'm a bit stumped on how that could be better addressed than I've seen in WoW as an example. How best, in an automated manner that couldn't easily be abused, can skill and teamwork and even basic communication be best rewarded in such an environment?

 

I've pondered on that one for a long time and I don't think it's something that lends well to easy answers.

 

On the whole, I'm generally for such cross server tools as I've personally been very much enabled to do content on my own time, and I've known an awful lot of people that were nothing but ultimately helped by such systems in WoW particularly.

 

In short, the good outweighs the bad in my perspective, though I can certainly understand yours in kind.

 

Thanks for elaborating, Valcaenu! I greatly appreciate the clarification on your thoughts and feelings!

[Therrak]

I seem to recall that one or even both of WoW's initial 2 raid dungeons were bugged (intentionally or otherwise) to the point of them not being completable for the first few months. As a matter of fact, wasn't Onyxia pretty much locked off entirely at first?

 

Ragnaros was impossible for a long time. I believe there was another boss fight in AQ that was an artificial cblock as well.

[Painstorm]

Once again this utterly stupid comparison /sigh

You might as well make a comparison of a computer made in 2004 vs a computer made in 2011.

Who cares if your new computer/game or whatever got more features included than something released 7 years ago. Of course it does... ever heard of evolution?

The problem is when it got a lot less features than similar computers/games or whatever released in 2011.

So once again... this game is not competing with other games released in 2004. It is competing with games released in 2012 and should of course be compared to those.

[Valceanu]

Fair comment, but won't you agree that even after taking in account of what you said, that SWTOR's UI is rather lacking? The UI is something every player has to deal with unlike end-game content (personally, end-game content is something I can wait for). And all the complaints about character responsiveness, and to a lesser extent, framerate issues, are these not very fundamental issues that are separate from "there isn't enough content" issues?

 

I agree....i am all for UI customization, fixing the ability delay and improving framerates. I belive UI customization is being addressed in the upcoming patch 1.2 as well as some more fixes for the ability delay which to be fair has already been fixed for 50-60% of the cases. As for the framerates...i can only hope they improve on the way their servers process the informational exchange as time goes by. I havent encountered anything the really hampers gameplay yet but i do expect better.

 

These are all quite valid complains and i am not as blind as to ignore them. In fact i recognize them and scorn the devs because of them sometimes. That doesnt mean i rage-quit.

 

They have nothing to do with adding easy-mode/hand-holding features to the game just because WoW has them though. To me that is not a good enough reason... in fact i couldnt care less what Blizz does with/for WoW. I'd prefer TOR to evolve in its own way and add the features that are deemed necessary as time passes as opposed to them being added because people are crying for them... people educated badly by WoW im my humble opinion.

 

EDIT: sorry about that. Somehow i mistakenly read that you were quoting one of my previous posts when in fact they were another posters...on well...point stand anyways.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Valceanu

[Therrak]

Fair comment, but won't you agree that even after taking in account of what you said, that SWTOR's UI is rather lacking? The UI is something every player has to deal with unlike end-game content (personally, end-game content is something I can wait for). And all the complaints about character responsiveness, and to a lesser extent, framerate issues, are these not very fundamental issues that are separate from "there isn't enough content" issues?

 

I don't think you read all of the comment you quoted. I'm not really sure if you read any of it to be honest. I'm pretty sure I stated in my third paragraph that I'd rather content development get delayed in favor moving resources to bug squashing.

[PalawaJoko]

Now we just wait for all the posts about how this was 2004 and shouldn't be applicable to a 2011 game..

 

but for what it's worth I have to applaud the op as this is a excellent post and exactly how SWTOR should be viewed.

 

 

That and I've just drunk 10+ gins on a monday night..

Well you still have to understand that in so many years things should develop alot and people are expecting more from new games which is normal.

 

It is ignorance if you think that these days games should be released in same condition as in 2004.

[RabidPopcorn]

I don't think you read all of the comment you quoted. I'm not really sure if you read any of it to be honest. I'm pretty sure I stated in my third paragraph that I'd rather content development get delayed in favor moving resources to bug squashing.

 

I apologise for misinterpreting your post and the SWTOR team and I both agree that bug squashing is a priority, but what I'm saying is the game should have shipped with a UI that functioned like it had the "creature comforts"/"bells and whistles" of a 2011/2012 MMO (e.g. 2011/2012 WoW); same goes for character responsiveness, these are issues that should have been properly dealt with before release because they're the bare minimum; the problem arises when people act like SWTOR's UI/responsiveness is good enough and is intended to be that way, or when people say things like "learn to live with it".