Aysee Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 so i tried out this talent instead of subjugation and i can say that its not really worth it. 30% vs 50% snare is huge difference, even if you initially save up 2 rage. also with the 30% snare, i feel that targets still move too fast plus it doesnt last long. i also felt the extra 2 seconds in disruption means either a kill or a stalemate when fighting healers. i wish theyd change out this talent, maybe add a chance to proc crippling slash instead. offtopic: vicious throw - wish this was passively added to deadly throw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 why would you ever drop subjugation??? The 30% snare on rupture is far worth it and it saves a global and 2 rage. I do wish it was on ALL our bleeds the snare was applied. be much cooler then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 To me, it's not worth the 2 talent points. But that's a personal decision. If I feel I need the snare for this particular fight, I'll put a 50% one that lasts 12 seconds. Yes, it'll cost me 2 rage. Instead of it permanently costing me 2 talent points to put a 30% slow on a target for 6 seconds with Ruptute. If Seeping Wound was 50%, or lasted 12-15 seconds, sure. I'd say it's absolutely worth it. Or, heck, if it was just a 1 talent point, I'd say it's worth it. But as it is, 2 points for a 30% that lasts 6 seconds? No way. As for Deadly Throw + Vicious Throw, they really need either to knock down the rage cost on Deadly Throw OR buff the damage it does. Its damage is pathetic. The debuff is nice, but the rage cost is steep. I still use it against classes I KNOW will heal, even passively, but it's pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenoNation Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 You do realize that classes that do not heal can still GET healed, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aysee Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) yah sorry lol. anyway the 20% debuff isnt really that noticeable. if it was like 50% aka mortal strike then maybe id use it more. thats why im more on preventing actual heals from happening and dropping that healer as fast as possible. Edited February 20, 2012 by Aysee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenoNation Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 My reply was aimed at Sabbathius, who said he/she only uses Deadly Throw against classes he knows will heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenConflict Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) so i tried out this talent instead of subjugation and i can say that its not really worth it. 30% vs 50% snare is huge difference, even if you initially save up 2 rage. also with the 30% snare, i feel that targets still move too fast plus it doesnt last long. i also felt the extra 2 seconds in disruption means either a kill or a stalemate when fighting healers. i wish theyd change out this talent, maybe add a chance to proc crippling slash instead. offtopic: vicious throw - wish this was passively added to deadly throw Yeah that's what I been thinking a whole lot about lately. 6s 30% slow for 2 rage just really doesn't seem to be worth it. Even though is makes rotations pretty smooth imo. Thinking about about doing the same and just get used to using Crippling Smash @ the VT -- This would be nice, hate using both of em. Just combine it! Waste of 5 Rage I could get 2 VS's outta that! Edited February 20, 2012 by OpenConflict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Seeping Wounds is a great boon to the Juyo damage rotation. Every global on the spec is precious, and squandering one on a crippling slash when Seeping would be just as effective at the moment is a bad choice. You will certainly still Crippling Slash in those rare moments rupture is down, or are setting out to simply slow/delay enemy forces in warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderbubble Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I put a single point into Seeping Wound, and also into Close Quarters and the 15-30% Predation (Ferocity I think). My reasoning was like this: An extra 15% movement speed on Predation is honestly plenty. 50-65-80 is a lot, but the jump from 50% to 65% is more than the jump from 65% to 80% if you think about it. I'm not sure if there's diminishing returns here, but 65% seems to do the trick just fine. Besides, I don't use Predation that often anyway, as I'm almost always using Berserk. 5m is plenty close for Close Quarters and a second point is a bit of a waste. Now my reasoning for the single point of Seeping Wound: Because it's a very nice bonus when it goes off. 50% of the time it's a slow. If it doesn't go off, you don't miss it anyway, but if it does go off, it's a nice little extra CC that you didn't have before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Ferocity is completely unnecessary unless you're on a premade team and you're a pre-designated node capper/defender at start in Alde, or running huttballs. Both jobs were not well suited for anyway. Fury stack should never be used for predation in a currently engaged fight, only to move between fight locations. You have more than enough gap closers and defense vs ranged attacks to squander a fury stack when you could be gaining far more damage/healing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryzen Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 5m is plenty close for Close Quarters and a second point is a bit of a waste. But charge acts as an interrupt and in PvP that is very handy. Especially vs tracer missiles, heals, etc. Also being a rage builder it is very nice in that aspect too for face to face battles. So my question is, do we remove say 5% bleed damage and 2% crit chance for a 30% snare on rupture or where do we pull these points from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 But charge acts as an interrupt and in PvP that is very handy. Especially vs tracer missiles, heals, etc. Also being a rage builder it is very nice in that aspect too for face to face battles. So my question is, do we remove say 5% bleed damage and 2% crit chance for a 30% snare on rupture or where do we pull these points from? It's a very clunky interrupt first of all since it isn't off global. And second, if you use it to interrupt you may very well find yourself without your gap closer a moment later. 6s interrupt is good enough. 1/2 close quarters is perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 It's a very clunky interrupt first of all since it isn't off global. And second, if you use it to interrupt you may very well find yourself without your gap closer a moment later. 6s interrupt is good enough. 1/2 close quarters is perfect. I agree, I have been one to charge to interrupt when already at range when I could have just run up but to use it as an interrupt in melee tends to cause just as many problems as it solves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryzen Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 ok, so ill probably take 1 point out of malice then to fund the last point in seeping wounds. 32/7/2. With the proper gear that 2% crit should be unnoticed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It's a very clunky interrupt first of all since it isn't off global. And second, if you use it to interrupt you may very well find yourself without your gap closer a moment later. 6s interrupt is good enough. 1/2 close quarters is perfect. You guys should learn to check out the timers on knock backs. Mercs knock back http://www.torhead.com/ability/dK8kTM6/jet-boost SI Knock back http://www.torhead.com/ability/gV8Zo5R/overload I'm not even going to bother with snipers knock back because when they use it we can't charge them anyways. Jugg push isn't worth it either as usually it's followed by charge. So we have a 20 second knock back and a 30 second knock back. Using 2/2 close quarters is a very good idea. A smart player never opens with a charge on a class you know you'll get knocked off of. You can use the charge 3 times against mercs and twice against sorcs given the fight lasts that long with you on any of them. Don't be a noob guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You guys should learn to check out the timers on knock backs. Mercs knock back http://www.torhead.com/ability/dK8kTM6/jet-boost SI Knock back http://www.torhead.com/ability/gV8Zo5R/overload I'm not even going to bother with snipers knock back because when they use it we can't charge them anyways. Jugg push isn't worth it either as usually it's followed by charge. So we have a 20 second knock back and a 30 second knock back. Using 2/2 close quarters is a very good idea. A smart player never opens with a charge on a class you know you'll get knocked off of. You can use the charge 3 times against mercs and twice against sorcs given the fight lasts that long with you on any of them. Don't be a noob guys. That would be awesome logic if this game were all 1v1 arena. Don't be a noob, guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 That would be awesome logic if this game were all 1v1 arena. Don't be a noob, guy. Be more aware of your surroundings yo and who is around your target and things like that. You people don't want to get talents like seeping wounds or 2/2 close quarters then wonder why you do so bad in pvp. Having a 0-30m range charge that is on a 12 second cool down is probably one of our best moves and worth the 4 talent points spent. Also saving yourself a GCD and 2 points vastly outweighs using cripping slash. For two points you can get a vicious slash off and it has a chance to reset your rupture. More ruptures = more damage = more snare. I never have a problem being kited and if you do you're straight up bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Be more aware of your surroundings yo and who is around your target and things like that. You people don't want to get talents like seeping wounds or 2/2 close quarters then wonder why you do so bad in pvp. Having a 0-30m range charge that is on a 12 second cool down is probably one of our best moves and worth the 4 talent points spent. Also saving yourself a GCD and 2 points vastly outweighs using cripping slash. For two points you can get a vicious slash off and it has a chance to reset your rupture. More ruptures = more damage = more snare. I never have a problem being kited and if you do you're straight up bad. I do take seeping wounds, you clearly don't even read posts in this thread. best juyo general pvp build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIrRrRzcGzZhMbZ0M.1 Edited February 21, 2012 by ShiroRX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Be more aware of your surroundings yo and who is around your target and things like that. You people don't want to get talents like seeping wounds or 2/2 close quarters then wonder why you do so bad in pvp. Having a 0-30m range charge that is on a 12 second cool down is probably one of our best moves and worth the 4 talent points spent. Also saving yourself a GCD and 2 points vastly outweighs using cripping slash. For two points you can get a vicious slash off and it has a chance to reset your rupture. More ruptures = more damage = more snare. I never have a problem being kited and if you do you're straight up bad. I do take seeping wounds, you clearly don't even read posts in this thread. Here let me put a little more emphasis there for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthror Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Ferocity is completely unnecessary unless you're on a premade team and you're a pre-designated node capper/defender at start in Alde, or running huttballs. Both jobs were not well suited for anyway. Mara are not suited for carrying huttball? *ULTRA HIGH ANGLE REVERSED FACEPALM* We are just the best class for solorunning/escaping with the ball, also we are one of the easiest to get in position thanks to phantom. Btw don't introduce your build as *the best one* (especially when it's kinda......sucky) that just make you look like a douche @op : as a melee counting on the weakest snare of the game is kinda crappy imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aysee Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Be more aware of your surroundings yo and who is around your target and things like that. You people don't want to get talents like seeping wounds or 2/2 close quarters then wonder why you do so bad in pvp. Having a 0-30m range charge that is on a 12 second cool down is probably one of our best moves and worth the 4 talent points spent. Also saving yourself a GCD and 2 points vastly outweighs using cripping slash. For two points you can get a vicious slash off and it has a chance to reset your rupture. More ruptures = more damage = more snare. I never have a problem being kited and if you do you're straight up bad. i do have close quarters as i find it nice to have as an alternative interrupt. as for seeping wounds regardless you would still be putting up crippling in those times that your target you just spent rupture gets away/died from you and you are on a new one and need to snare him. with the standard 31 7 3, i dont have any talents to spare unless i take off points from subjugation (which i found diminished my pvp ability) or points from carnage/rage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 i do have close quarters as i find it nice to have as an alternative interrupt. as for seeping wounds regardless you would still be putting up crippling in those times that your target you just spent rupture gets away/died from you and you are on a new one and need to snare him. with the standard 31 7 3, i dont have any talents to spare unless i take off points from subjugation (which i found diminished my pvp ability) or points from carnage/rage most the time people aren't getting away anyways... every now and then a sorc force runs away but that's about it. nothing much to worry about and you must remember the rupture thing is every 6 seconds to reset it... the amount of time you can keep rupture up is pretty good. You should never take points from subjugation. NEVER. Also i don't find putting 3 points in subjugation worth it when we have both short fuse and defensive forms, you generate fury like a beast and you get the garanteed crit on your dots from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderbubble Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't find Subjugation worth it overall, honestly. It only works against half the classes in the game, and even if it does matter, you can only shut them down for a few seconds. That doesn't compare to the CC that other classes bring to the table, and therefore you shouldn't attempt to focus on it. Marauder is focused on finding ONE target and destroying/harassing it until it either dies, or is forced to stealth and run like a little b-tch. We're the optimal 1v1 destroyers, not AoE brawlers - unless you're Rage, in which case you're either not geared or you're just not optimizing.. that or you're drunk because Rage is the only way to make this class easy to play. Yes, I was Rage for over a week due to respec costs being too high for me to care to pay. I PvP'd that entire time. I was also bored beyond belief. Obfuscate, while amazing, works on very few targets. Charge, as a disrupt ability, doesn't actually PREVENT a target from using that ability again. Cool, I spent my Charge to disrupt a Tracer Missile. A second later, I get the Tracer Missile to the face anyway. In fact, why worry about disrupting anything when we can simply massacre things outright like we are supposed to? The faster you kill them, the less you have to deal with disrupting their abilities. Problem solved. Just kill faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You people don't want to get talents like seeping wounds or 2/2 close quarters then wonder why you do so bad in pvp. I agree with your sentiment in general, but you only need 1/2 close quarters. Specifically: - When you want to use charge to interrupt a 1.5s cast, you need to be prepared to use it ahead of time anyways (e.g. you have to be mentally prepared to stop your DPS rotation to use force charge, since it's on the GCD). - If you're mentally prepared to use it, you're also prepared to step away from your target 2 steps to use a 5m force charge. Thus, you don't need 2/2 CQ unless you're lazy. You should never take points from subjugation. NEVER. This. Anyone without 2/2 Subjugation for PvP should respec to something else, and probably reroll a BH to boot. Annihilation has 4 core capabilities: - Deadly Saber - Subjugation - the Fury talent - Annihilate Everything else is filler / fluff. This is close to the best non-Warzone-objective build you can use: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIrRrRzsGzZuMM.1 The only tradeoff to make it objective-happy is Ferocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Mara are not suited for carrying huttball? *ULTRA HIGH ANGLE REVERSED FACEPALM* We are just the best class for solorunning/escaping with the ball, also we are one of the easiest to get in position thanks to phantom. Btw don't introduce your build as *the best one* (especially when it's kinda......sucky) that just make you look like a douche @op : as a melee counting on the weakest snare of the game is kinda crappy imo No, they aren't: http://www.torhead.com/ability/bpLQwdz/hydraulic-overrides wide receiver mode. -- marauders who do work know the value of seeping wounds. only the scrubs don't pick it up. Edited February 21, 2012 by ShiroRX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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