RP Etiquette or How to Play Well with Others

[Sendra]

Anyone that has been hosting or participating in any form of bigger LARP events have seen these "win win" players IRL and also had a chance to talk to them face to face. An etiquette for them is not to interesting and neither is consequences. To just ignore them feels like a lazy-mans option.

 

Now and then you hear about the kill on sight list for pvp. I would like to see an option like that for roleplayers to use on players you want to flag. When your guild encounter these players they have a different color on their names or a symbol beside the name.

 

When inspecting that player, you could have the person that flagged him/her add information as to why this player was flagged to begin with.

 

That seems to just perpetuate and escalate drama. If there is someone you would rather not RP with, maybe the best way to handle that would be to simply not RP with them.

 

Seriously, we need to come together, not grief people we disagree with out of the community. We don't have to get involved in "deep RP" with people we don't trust, but we can inhabit the same server and share and co-create a world, in most cases.

[Grihm]

That seems to just perpetuate and escalate drama. If there is someone you would rather not RP with, maybe the best way to handle that would be to simply not RP with them.

 

Seriously, we need to come together, not grief people we disagree with out of the community. We don't have to get involved in "deep RP" with people we don't trust, but we can inhabit the same server and share and co-create a world, in most cases.

 

No bigger difference than kos list or keeping names on a note-pad really. Just another helpful tool.

 

In any case, chat-bubbles will come later on, and they will be optional. This i feel will really boost the roleplaying spirits and also be a lot more useful. Will no doubt bring in a lot more people that nowadays choose not to RP because of the lack of them.

[Darth_Slaine]

Given that courtesy and respect in practise differs from person to person, why is it so important to dictate to others what courtesy and respect entails? How is this any different from demanding an RP standard?

 

There is one obvious difference between courtesy and an RP standard -- courtesy has an actual definition. Though one may argue that all human experience and communication is subjective, the reason words are functional is because there is a great deal of overlap between the subjective understandings of the concepts they represent.

 

No such thing exists for an RP standard. Many people will say that no RP standard exists. There is no working definition for an RP standard. Before one could enforce an RP standard, one would need to create it and then force people to accept that definition.

 

Rather than say, "Here is the RP standard that you must adhere to" one can say, "Live up to the definition of courtesy in your heart."

 

I am not try to tell people what exactly they must do to be courteous but highlighting areas where courtesy plays a role in creating positive interactions.

 

I would never tell you what you must do to be courteous, but I will suggest that if people don't find you to be courteous that the problem is probably with you rather than with them.

 

I hope that answers your question.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Darth_Slaine

[Sendra]

In any case, chat-bubbles will come later on, and they will be optional. This i feel will really boost the roleplaying spirits and also be a lot more useful. Will no doubt bring in a lot more people that nowadays choose not to RP because of the lack of them.

 

 

Probably going to bring a moderate amount of hostility onto myself at this point, but avoiding RP because of no chat bubbles seems pretty seriously lame to me. Set up a separate tab for just /say, /whisper, /emote, /yell (or whatever), and maybe /party and go. It is still more difficult than it has to be in a crowded setting, but it's do-able.

 

And chat bubbles won't do anything at all to address the basic courtesy and how to get along with others that this thread is about. Each individual is free to decide who to not RP with, and guilds and RP circles are bound to share that information among themselves anyway. Setting up and institutionalizing a "do not RP" list creates the worst sort of fragmented, exclusive, cliqueish RP worlds.

 

(Edit. Removed stuff that wasn't really on topic and while I intended for it to contribute to the topic, the connection was probably too vague.)

Edited February 19, 2012 by Sendra

[Darth_Slaine]

And chat bubbles won't do anything at all to address the basic courtesy and how to get along with others that this thread is about. Each individual is free to decide who to not RP with, and guilds and RP circles are bound to share that information among themselves anyway. Setting up and institutionalizing a "do not RP" list creates the worst sort of fragmented, exclusive, cliqueish RP worlds.

 

I totally agree with this.

[Grihm]

In a few games i have had either my alt or main taking a break from the game and placed my self in the starting areas to interact with the new players.

 

Many times there are experienced players doing alts and they are just ignoring you, but there are many that actually appreciate the help and the immersion given by doing this.

 

In one game, we had our guild interact with new players pretty often to invite them in a roleplaying storyline to both show them we where inviting for the guild, and also to send them on some "quests" or missions. Many felt "special" by this and we made many good friends. Even though many did not join the guild, you still got a few /tells with thanks for explaining some things or by helping people understand what basic RP was.

[Sendra]

In one game, we had our guild interact with new players pretty often to invite them in a roleplaying storyline to both show them we where inviting for the guild, and also to send them on some "quests" or missions. Many felt "special" by this and we made many good friends. Even though many did not join the guild, you still got a few /tells with thanks for explaining some things or by helping people understand what basic RP was.

 

Yup. That's good stuff.

 

In a situation like this, experienced RPers new to the game or server can learn where to find RP, new RPers get introduced, and people who don't really want to spend their game time RPing gain a new appreciation for it and some good fun from it.

 

This is great. "Do not RP" lists are not great.

[Grihm]

Yup. That's good stuff.

 

In a situation like this, experienced RPers new to the game or server can learn where to find RP, new RPers get introduced, and people who don't really want to spend their game time RPing gain a new appreciation for it and some good fun from it.

 

This is great. "Do not RP" lists are not great.

 

 

Part from roleplaying with new players...In Age of Conan we had a few "market days" where we sold gear we did not use for a very low price to low level characters, and also gave away quite a few items for free and we placed these on open ground so people ran into us.

 

Later on we had a War-court to gather guilds and new players to roleplay both trades and plans for battle (pvp areas), but sadly that died out due to a guild that found it more funny to...well lets just say they lost a lot of credibility and friends by their actions.

 

The idea though was superb and so much fun while it lasted.

 

Since we have the option to pvp very easily, i am hoping for guild battle ships etc where you could invite players to tag along and have their input on things even though they are perhaps guild-less or roleplaying for the very first time. As long as people don´t see it as learning rather than experiencing.

[Rhaethe]

Good stuff in this thread.

 

I will only slightly digress on the wandering thought in my head --- My mother instilled in me from birth how to socialize and play well with others ... and emphasized courtesy, communication, and compromise. These lessons experienced and reinforced via other folks in my community growing up. All the way into my college years.

 

I call it common sense at this point. Second hand. Do I do it perfectly still to this day? Hell no. I'm human.

 

But. It boggles a portion of my mind that we actually have a thread that explains it and suggests we should do these things.

[avariambush]

Part from roleplaying with new players...In Age of Conan we had a few "market days" where we sold gear we did not use for a very low price to low level characters, and also gave away quite a few items for free and we placed these on open ground so people ran into us.

 

Later on we had a War-court to gather guilds and new players to roleplay both trades and plans for battle (pvp areas), but sadly that died out due to a guild that found it more funny to...well lets just say they lost a lot of credibility and friends by their actions.

 

The idea though was superb and so much fun while it lasted.

 

Since we have the option to pvp very easily, i am hoping for guild battle ships etc where you could invite players to tag along and have their input on things even though they are perhaps guild-less or roleplaying for the very first time. As long as people don´t see it as learning rather than experiencing.

 

That is good stuff Grihm. There are very few if any more rewarding feelings in roleplay than taking a "noob" who rolled on the RP server almost by mistake and sweeping them into RP and watching them say "damn this **** is fun!"

[Grihm]

That is good stuff Grihm. There are very few if any more rewarding feelings in roleplay than taking a "noob" who rolled on the RP server almost by mistake and sweeping them into RP and watching them say "damn this **** is fun!"

 

 

Thats very true! Just because one is new to RP does not make them any less welcome, but sadly many seem to think that. I have done a general comparison between MMO players that just rolled their first RP server and people on their first Larp, and there tend to be basically the same issues between them. This was less of a problem on the smaller larp´s we hosted with only about 100-300 people, but when the crowds grow, so do the gaps.

 

The big problem with MMO´s are that a lot of people have no safety net, or feel that they don´t. Many are even afraid to ask even the most basic questions in forums because of the fear of getting laughed at.

[tehjai]

I would never tell you what you must do to be courteous,

 

Then why is this thread here? I mean, I agree that the whole damn community should abide by Don't Be A Jerk, but what that means can vary so widely in practise (not definition; almost all words have objective definitions) that it's almost a futile thing, and in the end, can often read as dictatorial as a list of lore-rules.

 

Which -- and I think I had a mid-post epiphany here! -- I think is the crux of my issue with this thread; I think I might just have an issue with the language used; the stern-sounding dos and don'ts and unsubtle jabs at the verisimilitude thread. It reads (to me!) less as something helpful and more as a take-that to the people you might have disagreed with in that thread.

 

(Not to sound presumptuous, but given when this thread was created relative to the discussion o'er there, it kinda makes sense.)

 

I do believe with a change of wording and with the addition of some of the other things brought up downthread, it'll go down a lot easier.

 

Now, that's just my opinion; but if you like, I can do a quick revision within the next few days and send it over to you via PM. "No thank you" is a completely acceptable answer and I won't go over your head or anything.

[Darth_Slaine]

Now, that's just my opinion; but if you like, I can do a quick revision within the next few days and send it over to you via PM. "No thank you" is a completely acceptable answer and I won't go over your head or anything.

 

Are you suggesting you might take this to the Jedi Council?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding. I've written to you. Send me what you've got.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Darth_Slaine

[Myxam]

The Hypocrisy covering this thread is reaching the level of unbearable. We're discussing Compromise, Communication and Courtesy where is it?

 

Darth_Slaine I suggest you learn to practice your opinions before you preach them. You have been rather stubborn in what you wrote, as if you believe it is the bible of RPers. You also bear no mention of the other half of being apart of a community, making Compromises with the whole. You joined this community, and you make your contributions, others compromise with you, but you have not in the multitude of posts I've come across.

 

Verisimilitude applies to OOC as well as IC, as does Compromise.

[Darth_Slaine]

The Hypocrisy covering this thread is reaching the level of unbearable. We're discussing Compromise, Communication and Courtesy where is it?

 

Darth_Slaine I suggest you learn to practice your opinions before you preach them. You have been rather stubborn in what you wrote, as if you believe it is the bible of RPers. You also bear no mention of the other half of being apart of a community, making Compromises with the whole. You joined this community, and you make your contributions, others compromise with you, but you have not in the multitude of posts I've come across.

 

Verisimilitude applies to OOC as well as IC, as does Compromise.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you are objecting to. So far in this thread, I think we have all been compromising and willing to listen to each other's suggestions.

I'm very confused by your statement that "verisimilitude applies to OOC" because verisimilitude, or realism, would need to apply OOC as OOC, by definition, is real.

 

In this thread there has been a lot of communication. I think there has been compromise and it has remained fairly courteous. I wouldn't want to say that your post is the first break from that pattern but it does seem to be directed at me rather than the ideas.

 

It might be better to make a new thread explaining what is wrong with Darth Slaine, if you have no issues with the ideas of Courtesy, Compromise and Communication.

 

At the very least, your post was a very honest criticism even if I feel it was misplaced. Thank you for posting it.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Darth_Slaine

[TheGreatNeechi]

Someone explain to me how verisimilitude applies OOC?

 

I have never, and will never apply verisimilitude to any out of character interaction, as the interaction in question is between players themselves, as opposed to players acting through characters.

 

At best, trying to apply verisimilitude to OOC is metagaming. At worst it can lead to total godmoding. If a character is acting out of place, it is not your job as a role-player to automatically crack down IC. We are adults here. If a player is playing in a way you do not agree with you can offer your difference of opinion OOC, but that doesn't mean you must or should attempt to apply verisimilitude to it.

 

It's OOC.

 

If they rebuff your objections the two of you are not obligated to play with each other. It really is that simple.

 

I realize there are some individuals out there who seem to think a role-player is obligated to accept everything that happens IC, but I couldn't disagree more. The IC manifestation of verisimilitude is a little thing I like to call Cognitive Dissonance.

 

If it doesn't fit, it doesn't exist.

 

Problem solved.

[Darth_Slaine]

Someone explain to me how verisimilitude applies OOC?

 

I'm not 100% sure what the poster meant by it either. We will need to wait for him/her to come back and elaborate.

 

I have always believed that verisimilitude really only applies to fictive contexts as it is an attempt to generate a sensation of "realness." OOC, to my mind, would already be real and would not need such a thing.

 

I don't really want to say too much though because I don't quite grasp where the poster is coming from.

 

I really like the points you make in the rest of your post. That is a very helpful way of reconciling these issues.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Darth_Slaine

[SNEAKYSIX]

Im thinkin of joining the RP pvp server later today when I get home, its a concept I really like the sounds of. I play at the moment with an outlook of following complete 100% light side with my jedi and 100% dark with my Sith. As much as sometimes with sith the tendancy to be good conflicts but I must keep to the path. So this is an interesting read in the topic. Will join the europe server and give it a go. Edited February 21, 2012 by SNEAKYSIX

[TheGreatNeechi]

I'm not 100% sure what the poster meant by it either. We will need to wait for him/her to come back and elaborate.

 

I have always believed that verisimilitude really only applies to fictive contexts as it is an attempt to generate a sensation of "realness." OOC, to my mind, would already be real and would not need such a thing.

 

I don't really want to say too much though because I don't quite grasp where the poster is coming from.

 

I really like the points you make in the rest of your post. That is a very helpful way of reconciling these issues.

 

You're doing fine. I've been following you around these forums for a few weeks, and frankly think we should put our heads together.

 

I learned how to RP in a freeform setting, without any established rules or systems of any kind. In freeform collaboration is everything; it is an honor system: I agree to acknowledge your character and their actions within a threshold, and you agree to keep your character within that threshold.

 

Why?

 

Because, experienced role-players have learned: All the nerd rage in the world is not going to force a player to play the way we want them too. Players who try to force their fellow RPers are just in for a lot of embarrassment, and after thorough humiliation they come back to the table and are more respectful.

 

Verisimilitude says if I put a blaster to your character's head and pull the trigger, your character is dead. Now, who is the godmoder? The player who posted, "I blow John Doe's head off," or the player who says, "Wait a minute, I'm not going to accept that play?"

 

The former is the godmoder, because verisimilitude can only be claimed with absolute authority: God. It applies to works of fiction. It does not and cannot apply to role-play, and the player who tries is only in for a severely bruised ego.

Edited February 21, 2012 by TheGreatNeechi

[a_birdbird]

If this thread is turning into "What is wrong with Darth_Slaine?", then I'll throw my two credits in and say: nothing, far as I can tell.

 

To relate this to the topic at hand: I actually believe that everyone (with very rare exceptions) is interested in courtesy, communication and compromise. I suspect also that everyone participating in this thread is aiming at that, but that we have run afoul of tone issues. That's right. The dreaded internet tone issue.

 

See, I interpret the things Darth_Slaine writes (to pick on you as an example) as being in tone a kind of friendly dry wit, critical on the surface, but backed by goodwill generally (some of this in part has to do also with having seen other of Slaine's posts which are about building community). So, even if critical, I don't perceive Slaine to be judgmental, which would be an entirely different tone. I also tend to like dry wit, especially the friendly kind, so I'm predisposed to receive it more favorably.

 

In the case of tehjai, who has self-identified as being brash and outspoken, I haven't really identified a negative tone, simply a direct one. I tend to be similar in RL myself, and more so in written communications, so I never default to interpreting such a tone as 'so mean!' (not to say that anyone has, exactly!).

 

So, what I'm seeing happening here is an unintentional ruffling of feathers (extending beyond the two whom I've chosen to use as examples--and also not implying that my two examples are themselves ruffled). No one is intending personal judgment or criticism, but it maybe is feeling like that for some.

 

On the matter of 'this thread is associated with that other one' (which I stopped following a while ago, so I may no longer be up to date on the latest). That may be true. But where there exists a difference of opinion which has been difficult to breach or a particular point which has been difficult to move beyond, I think there is nothing wrong with refocusing one's efforts on attempting to present one's opinion/philosophy in a space unassociated with that other opinion or sticky point.

 

It can draw like minds (or unlike minds) as well as a different sort of discussion. I personally don't perceive such actions to be fragmenting, because tolerance is part of courtesy, communication and compromise.

 

Agreement to disagree is paradoxically still agreement. So, a plus for the community overall.

[Rhaethe]

This thread took a really odd turn.

 

I'm trying really hard to get more negative, hypocritical, judgemental, finger-wagging tone out of this guide than any of the other RP guides that have been posted in this section ... and I'm failing. ***

 

But I'm trying! I will devote around 5 more minutes to it, and if I still cannot manage I'ma just going to say "Screw ya'all, I'ma goin to mah corner."

 

 

 

***Note: Not that any of the guides posted in this section do have negative and hypcritical tone ... actually come to think of it, guides can be and often are instructional. And instructional documents often do take on an instructional tone, which some can interpret negatively. I suppose.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Rhaethe

[TheGreatNeechi]

What Darth Slaine has tried to do here is compile 20 years worth of RP experience into a forum post.

 

You, sir (or ma'am) win one (1) internet for that attempt alone.

 

I can't say I read it all, because I've had the benefit of the school of hard knocks, but without reading it I know what's in it, because I've been there... Darth Slaine, I've been there with you.

 

Common sense cannot be taught.

 

But you tried.

 

All the hugs in the world to you, my friend.

[tehjai]

Are you suggesting you might take this to the Jedi Council?

 

YES I AM GOING TO TELL SATELE SHAN ON YOU

 

SHE WILL TAKE YOUR LIGHTSABER AWAY AND MAKE YOU SIT IN THE CORNER WITHOUT SUPPER

 

 

 

 

 

(yes, I'm just kidding too.)

Edited February 21, 2012 by tehjai

[DuchessOfKvetch]

We Hawkers are usually not well known for our sensitivity and tact. ^_^

 

There's a certain - dark humour - that creeps in as a defense mechanism after many, many years doing FFRP across various forms and dealing with drama.

 

You either pick up a thick skin, and learn to joke about it, or you become one of those RAGEY players who's angry at everyone, all the time.

 

That being said, I'm sort of boggling that people can manage to take offense over work initiated to help others voluntarily. But this -is- the internet, and sore butts abound. I've even been flamed for suggesting that people -not- take my opinion as dogma, and figure things out for themselves.

 

And this is why I regularly take long breaks from this forum and go back to my website.

Edited February 21, 2012 by DuchessOfKvetch

[Darth_Slaine]

I'd like to thank everyone who said nice things about me in this thread -- though if my head keeps swelling I won't be able to wear my "Darth" helmet. I apologize if my tone is, at times, "sassy" but I am an evil Sith. What can you expect?

But I promise to be more Jedi-like in the future!

 

A few posters have asked why I created this thread -- calling it a guide would probably be overdoing it on my part. It is true that other threads, and the discussions in them, served as the inspiration for my attempt at starting a dialogue based on trying, if not always successfully, to be nice to other players. This thread gave me a place to store the argument that I have been working on in fits and starts across this forum, the gist of which is...

 

Play your own character -- not someone else's -- and treat people the way you want them to treat you.

 

I suppose I could have reduced the whole thing to line but that wouldn't have been very dramatic. I wanted to show that a simple idea, like showing respect to other players, isn't a one-off thing but rather a unified strategy for dealing with RP situations.

 

You don't have to be nice to people who are jerks to you. You don't need to RP with people who you don't like. At the same time, there is no need to stop someone else from enjoying their time on an RP server* -- whether or not you like their playstyle.

 

So, why did I make this thread? Two reasons... First and most obvious, I wanted to become forum-famous. Second, I hoped people would get so bored when they read it that they would be too afraid to engage in any more RP drama for fear that I would release a sequel...

 

This is a strategy I learned from the great GL.

 

 

 

*of course this does not apply to anyone violating the terms of use.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Darth_Slaine