Lack of End Game: Is BW reacting quick enough?

[Vydor_HC]

Sorry this made me lol.

 

If you have nothing left to do in the game quit.

 

Yes it’s that easy.

 

There will never be enough content for some players.

 

Believe me I will quit when the game stops being fun. However, this IS an issue for the game and for Bioware to address, unless they want to continue to lose accounts due to player boredom.

[Vydor_HC]

The game is brand new! Dont get why people continue to complain about End Game. Blizz has worked on WoW for what....12 years now.

 

Probably because they are playing the end game right now, and it's lacking in entertainment value. Players can't be asked to continue to play a game that does not entertain them just because maybe in some future date it will.

[sheisty]

The April numbers will most likely show otherwise. All the hardcore players are waiting for the new OPs, which undoubtedly will be just as easy as the current ones. They'll clear it in one week then unsub, game dies.

 

LOL, its releasing in Asia and Australia soon. Hate to burst that bubble but this game is only going to grow.

[djsmileey]

*sigh*

 

This game isn't build for hardcore players.

 

My WoW Raiding schedule and play schedule was tues/wed/thurs 8-11, and we cleared all Heroic modes each week.

 

Outside of that, I would log on for a few hours here and there to do some pvp, or perhaps help with some 5 mans. Beyond that there wasn't much to do besides daily's n crap I already did a hundred times.

 

How's that different in TOR?

 

Warzones = Battlegrounds

Flashpoints = Dungeons

Operations = Raids

Tol Barad = Ilum(both are pretty pointless overall)

Both Had daily's

WoW Used to have world bosses, but doesn't anymore, TOR does.

There are other similarities...

 

On TOR I log in, do my daily's on PvP, Ilum, Space combat, and then usually group up with guild for a flashpoint. On weekends we run some Operations. I don't know about you, but this takes me at least a few hours every day.

 

Every 3-6 months Blizzard releases a new Raid / 5 man content. In less than 1 month, TOR had already released a new flashpoint, with talk of additional Flashpoint/Warzone in 1.2 within 3 months. When WoW first came out, they were not releasing content like that.

 

3 months of release and a bunch of new content already. Can you really say they aren't reacting quickly enough? When WoW first came out, they had 3 Battlegrounds, and little-to-no dungeons.

 

Why does WoW get a fair shake, but TOR doesn't?

 

Give it time.

[Dyvid]

So if end game sucks what do you want then? I see alot of thread complaining about it but when comes to telling the Devs what end game should be, the whiner fall quiet.

[sheisty]

*sigh*

 

When WoW first came out, they had 3 Battlegrounds, and little-to-no dungeons.

 

Why does WoW get a fair shake, but TOR doesn't?

 

Give it time.

 

Actually when WoW first came out it had no Battlegrounds, those were added like a year later. PvP consisted of hanging out in southshore and zergigng back and forth for months.

 

It had 2 brokeback raids one of them being one mob and raid lock out bugs for months. rest of the content was 2 high level dungeons at release.

Edited February 16, 2012 by sheisty

[djsmileey]

Actually when WoW first came out it had no Battlegrounds, those were added like a year later. PvP consisted of hanging out in southshore and zergigng back and forth for months.

 

It had 2 brokeback raids one of them being one mob and raid lock out bugs for months. rest of the content was 2 high level dungeons at release.

 

Ahh yes!

 

I remember now, because I hung out in southshore for like 2 hours a few days after release trying to figure out what an Add-on was.

 

I can't remember the name of that first add-on that everyone was getting.

 

Edit: Thanks for the input also, I had forgotten about the crappy raids/dungeons. I new UBRS and BRM was there, but knew they were buggy.

 

This only further confirms my point though. If the biggest MMO in history got away with almost no endgame for months after release, why can't SWTOR?

Edited February 16, 2012 by djsmileey

[Thoffs]

Well, one thing Bioware had definitely done with this game and that is to make endgame content accessible to just about anybody who desires to do it. This has been said by many others, but this game is by far the easiest MMO I have ever been in in terms of obtaining gear and doing raids. And not just a little easier -- probably by 3 or 4 factors at least.

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the future, interesting checkpoints will be 6 months and 12 months in terms of total subscriptions.

 

At the rate at which even casual players progress through content and ops, I don't see how Bioware can release content fast enough to keep people interested if they keep relatively the same difficulty levels in new content releases. The population may steady out with outgoing players being replaced by new people since the story-driven L1-50 is good conent, but unless things change I don't see any substantial subscription growth.

 

The first couple of major content additions will be interesting to see what direction the content goes in. I know details have been leaked in terms of new ops, FPs, whatever, but the difficulty level of that content and its ability to keep people busy for longer periods of time than what it currently takes will be intriguing.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Thoffs

[Ngamok]

Fact: If your only form of endgame is developer-generated content, people will clear it much faster than you can introduce new things, unless the content is extremely hard (see: Age of Conan Tier 3 and Tier 4).

 

Fact: If something is too hard or too easy people will complain there is "nothing to do."

 

 

So the answer is, "Bioware will never be able to react quick enough."

 

I only played like 2 months of AoC, just couldn't get into the combat system but I agree. If you make things too hard, people complain and then you end up spending lots of time making it easier (Ragnaros got nerfed 3 times in vanilla WoW). You make it too easy, people complain they are bored and want more stuff now.

 

I say give it 6 months and I am sure things will fall into place more. RIFT was more the same way. people said Greenscale was too easy. Fast forward to Hammerknell and all of the sudden, people are finding it harder to clear.

[AdamLKvist]

Well, one thing Bioware had definitely done with this game and that is to make endgame content accessible to just about anybody who desires to do it. This has been said by many others, but this game is by far the easiest MMO I have ever been in in terms of obtaining gear and doing raids. And not just a little easier -- probably by 3 or 4 factors at least.

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the future, interesting checkpoints will be 6 months and 12 months in terms of total subscriptions.

 

At the rate at which even casual players progress through content and ops, I don't see how Bioware can release content fast enough to keep people interested if they keep relatively the same difficulty levels in new content releases. The population may steady out with outgoing players being replaced by new people since the story-driven L1-50 is good conent, but unless things change I don't see any substantial subscription growth.

 

The first couple of major content additions will be interesting to see what direction the content goes in. I know details have been leaked in terms of new ops, FPs, whatever, but the difficulty level of that content and its ability to keep people busy for longer periods of time than what it currently takes will be intriguing.

 

Nightmare mode isn't accessible for the causual player, they would not be able to do it. Bioware's philosophy is to let everyone participate in the actual content, which is good, but giving it different leves of difficulty means that as a "hardcore" player (i say that with distaste) you're not even supposed to do N/HM, youre supposed to do NM. And if you meant any of the below I'm afraid you simply dont know what youre talking about.

[ptwonline]

The April numbers will most likely show otherwise. All the hardcore players are waiting for the new OPs, which undoubtedly will be just as easy as the current ones. They'll clear it in one week then unsub, game dies.

 

Yes, when that 10% or so of the population leaves, the game will die

[Ngamok]

Ahh yes!

 

I remember now, because I hung out in southshore for like 2 hours a few days after release trying to figure out what an Add-on was.

 

I can't remember the name of that first add-on that everyone was getting.

 

Edit: Thanks for the input also, I had forgotten about the crappy raids/dungeons. I new UBRS and BRM was there, but knew they were buggy.

 

This only further confirms my point though. If the biggest MMO in history got away with almost no endgame for months after release, why can't SWTOR?

 

People called Molten Core, Molten Bore for a reason.

[sheisty]

Just like Blizzard realized years ago when they questioned, why are we spending months designing content that only 10% ever get to see? Im glad Bioware did not go down this path of making bust your balls for months content for the hardcores, which will burn though it anyways at a faster rate than they can design it.

 

Making content that 90% of your playerbase will never see is not a good business practice.

 

All MMOs these days are taking this path, and rightfully so. go find a mmo these days that does this, aside some of the asian ones which make you grind non stop.

Edited February 16, 2012 by sheisty

[Skrills]

There is probably an acceptable amount of end game "content" and by that I mean the whole raiding thing. Thing is there are other things in games like wow that help their content not get so routine and give it legs... like the decent amount of battlegrounds, pvp areas, the "wintergrasps", crafting, collecting rarities, achievements, places in the world where people congregate outside of leveling for x reason.

 

All we have is fail in the form of Ilum, 3 bgs (nearly one if you're empire), an extremely repetitive fleet to ship to planet transition that makes you pull your hair out, not so worthwhile crafting... So yes I'm sure there is enough to do raiding wise but when everything else falls flat it feels boring.

 

Especially for me since I don't pve much... but even if I wanted to you rarely see anything outside HMs on my republic server.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Skrills

[sheisty]

There is probably an acceptable amount of end game "content" and by that I mean the whole raiding thing. Thing is there are other things in games like wow that help their content not get so routine and give it legs... like the decent amount of battlegrounds, pvp areas, the "wintergrasps", crafting, collecting rarities, achievements, places in the world where people congregate outside of leveling for x reason.

 

All we have is fail in the form of Ilum, 3 bgs (nearly one if you're empire), an extremely repetitive fleet to ship to planet transition that makes you pull your hair out, not so worthwhile crafting... So yes I'm sure there is enough to do raiding wise but when everything else falls flat it feels boring.

 

Especially for me since I don't pve much... but even if I wanted to you rarely see anything outside HMs on my republic server.

 

They will add more. All they need is some time. If you cannot wait, thats fine too. no one is requiring anyone to play anything they dont want to play or pay for.

Edited February 16, 2012 by sheisty

[Gerrard_Ennui]

I log on to SW:TOR once a week as does my guildies. We clear EV and KP on hardmode in like 4-5 hrs (depending on how long we wipe due to bugs) and log off for the night.

Same, basically. I went ahead and unsubbed, theres just nothing to do. Been playing Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, haha.

 

This only further confirms my point though. If the biggest MMO in history got away with almost no endgame for months after release, why can't SWTOR?

Excellent question. Maybe because consumers were less demanding then? Edited February 16, 2012 by Gerrard_Ennui

[Kryptorchid]

Excellent question. Maybe because consumers were less demanding then?

 

It is an excellent question, and I think consumers are just tired of playing the same game reskinned (I know I am).

[rahlle]

Ahh yes!

 

I remember now, because I hung out in southshore for like 2 hours a few days after release trying to figure out what an Add-on was.

 

I can't remember the name of that first add-on that everyone was getting.

 

Edit: Thanks for the input also, I had forgotten about the crappy raids/dungeons. I new UBRS and BRM was there, but knew they were buggy.

 

This only further confirms my point though. If the biggest MMO in history got away with almost no endgame for months after release, why can't SWTOR?

 

Because of the fact that MMOs have evolved since the WoW release, saying that we cant compare TOR with WoW is just like saying you cant compare a brand new car company that evolves ****** cars with an car manufacturer such as BMW, just because they're new in the buisness/ the car is new.

 

OFCOURSE you compare with the best the branch has to offer.

Edited February 16, 2012 by rahlle

[Gerrard_Ennui]

I think consumers are just tired of playing the same game reskinned (I know I am).

Me, too.

[sheisty]

Because of the fact that MMOs have evolved since the WoW release, saying that we cant compare TOR with WoW is just like saying you cant compare a brand new car company that evolves ****** cars with an car manufacturer such as BMW, just because they're new in the buisness/ the car is new.

 

OFCOURSE you compare with the best the branch has to offer.

 

Oh, the old car analogy?

 

Sorry but software is not a car, its not even close. And you expecting 7 yrs of polish and additions to be in a new game is rather shortsighted and unfair.

 

Hell LFD was not added untill like 2 yrs ago and all of a sudden every game should have one at release?

 

A mmorog is like a good soup. Its built on the foundation of a solid base stock, then the addition of select meats, herbs, veggies to give it a robust deep flavor which is only attained in time.

[ptwonline]

A mmorog is like a good soup. Its built on the foundation of a solid base stock, then the addition of select meats, herbs, veggies to give it a robust deep flavor which is only attained in time.

 

While that may be true, if you decided to have soup for lunch, which one would you choose? Probably the better one unless you were already sick and tired of eating it too often, and wanted to try something different even if inferior.

[sheisty]

While that may be true, if you decided to have soup for lunch, which one would you choose? Probably the better one unless you were already sick and tired of eating it too often, and wanted to try something different even if inferior.

 

LOL, thats fine. Its anyones choice to go play wahtever they want. I was simply pointing out the flaw in the car analogy, which I hear too often on these forums. If your BMW is better, go buy a bmw and leave my honda alone, lol. My honda is soon getting a turbo kit, and new spoiler. Maybe in 6 months new ground effects.

Edited February 16, 2012 by sheisty

[ptwonline]

Excellent question. Maybe because consumers were less demanding then?

 

I think the players were willing to put up with more impediment back then. The core of people attracted to these kinds of games went through the relentless grinds involved, and eventually got sick and tired of it. Let's not forget that WoW used to be far more grindy, and they have continuously streamlined the gameplay over the years to take a lot of the grinding out.

 

So now when players get to new games they are either burnt out on those grinds, or the type never really willing to put up with those grinds in the first place. Either way, there isn't much place for it in games anymore.

[Meldwyn]

A mmorog is like a good soup. Its built on the foundation of a solid base stock, then the addition of select meats, herbs, veggies to give it a robust deep flavor which is only attained in time.

 

I agree with your soup analogy... SW has no end game either!

[Mourngrim]

The challenge BW had was to create an end game that was some type of extension of what their game is all about: Story and Companions... unfortunately, end game isn't anything like leveling and you lose all the momentum one has in their story at level cap.

 

Just becomes another blah MMO end game grind... nothing distinguishing at all!

 

There in lies an issue!

 

^THIS^

 

They hyped the games as being all about story...but the story goes from abundant in the start to nada at the end. They needed to weave that story "magic" to somehow permeate the end game..but it doesn't, not even a little. it just ends, and you are left wondering what happened to all the fun I was having up to this point? Well, they stressed story, but dropped it completely at endgame.

 

I'm not gonna sit and complain, I cancelled my sub. I enjoyed the single player aspect of the game, which this game heavily leans towards. I leveled to 30 all but 2 classes, but news of the legacy system, and options for new races because of it has made me regret that, so I wont level the 2 other classes till I return to the game in 3 or 4 months, when they hopefully bring the story back to the forefront in some way.