I can't seem to level alts... It's frustrating.

[Traumahawk]

So if you're a raider, like me, once you have content on farm you run out of stuff to do so you level alts. The problem is that leveling in this game is terrible. Hats off to Bioware for adding story to the leveling experience, but I feel like every planet is just another level in a giant rail shooter disguised as an MMO.

 

Does anyone else feel this way, because it strikes me as a fairly big problem and may end up costing BW subs down the road.

 

Yes. I feel this way. I have no choice but to do every single (non-class) quest on the same planets, using the same basic attacks against the same three NPC templates.

[Deisel]

So let me get this straight...in other games, you would just by-pass entire sections of content just to get to the end of the game? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of playing the game? I mean, you spent $60 for an out of box experience, don't you want you money's worth? I could see this if maybe there was no point to the game except for the end-game content (and there there already MMO "lite" games out there for this if that is what you want).

 

Plus, just about every RPG with a level system that is broken up into "zones" is designed so that each zone is to be tackled by the player during a given level rage. It's how the difficulty of the game is spread out. Unless there was some sort of dynamic level system where the mob levels are adjusted based on who aggored them, I don't know how you could make a cross-zone MMORPG. I mean, what happens if a lvl 50 player aggros a mob, which sets that mobs level to 50 and then runs away while a bunch of lvl 1 characters are there trying to complete their quests?

 

Again, I really don't see how TOR could have done things any different. It's the same system that even traditional, non-MMO RPG games use (with exceptions such as Skyrim which have a single world and dynamical leveling...but that is only a single player game).

 

you obviously missed the op's point, and must have played ONE maybe TWO other weak mmos out there. I'm going to drop the WoW bomb on you seeing as its one of the many mmos i played that even from the start, proves my point.

 

i choose to play a human:lvl in Elwyn>westfall>Redridge>Darkshire>Stranglethorn> ect.ect..

 

OR I choose a Dwarf. lvl in >Dun Morogh>Loch Modan>Wetlands>hillsbrad>arathi> ect. ect.

 

or i choose Elf. I lvl in Teldrassil>Darkshore>Ashenvale>Stonetalon>Desolace> ect. ect.

 

you getting the picture? Almost every race has their own questing start zones that links to a few next ones that after a short leveling experience, you can choose to leave and go to another same-faction race' zones and level there instead.

 

there are and were even at release dozens of combinations of areas to level up in. throw in quite a few "dungeons/instances" along the way and you could even level up several of the same class and not repeat the same leveling experience.

Yes some of the quests in every zone were and are "kill x" and "collect y". but change the scenery, audio, loot, quest storylines, and its pretty diverse.

 

Not so in this game. everythings the same for each faction regardless the class EXCEPT the main story, and SLIGHT changes to npc "speech". 98% of the objectives, music/scenery, zone/planets.. quess what? the same.

 

THIS is what the OP was talking about. Not some blind rush to lvl cap missing content along the way.

 

As for your argument about "moneys worth".. you seriously dont believethis game has more content than WoW did at launch do you? you since i just pointed out that it doesnt...

 

WoW is old and dated, but its still as deverse and stable as ever. I loved it, was a great game in its way, and even vanilla was very much worth the cost. as for ToR, on my main; it was enjoyable up to lvl 30's, started to get stale then frustrating to finally i have trouble leveling my other 6 toons i got out of their starting areas. because i seen it all. Class specific story is a very small portion of the content here, and that its the only real thing that changes makes playing other toons all the way to 50 seem shallow. I rate the value of bang/buck at this stage a C+. WoW value content at release A-.

 

now if you want to compare bugs or broken pvp or lack of endgame i say theyre about even.

sadly though bioware has had YEARS to looks at WoW and many many other mmos to learn from and yet this is what we get. This to me is a play each faction once to level cap or so, and hang it up for 6 months for much needed polish and content release.

 

'nuff said

[Traumahawk]

you obviously missed the op's point, and must have played ONE maybe TWO other weak mmos out there. I'm going to drop the WoW bomb on you seeing as its one of the many mmos i played that even from the start, proves my point.

 

i choose to play a human:lvl in Elwyn>westfall>Redridge>Darkshire>Stranglethorn> ect.ect..

 

OR I choose a Dwarf. lvl in >Dun Morogh>Loch Modan>Wetlands>hillsbrad>arathi> ect. ect.

 

or i choose Elf. I lvl in Teldrassil>Darkshore>Ashenvale>Stonetalon>Desolace> ect. ect.

 

you getting the picture? Almost every race has their own questing start zones that links to a few next ones that after a short leveling experience, you can choose to leave and go to another same-faction race' zones and level there instead.

 

there are and were even at release dozens of combinations of areas to level up in. throw in quite a few "dungeons/instances" along the way and you could even level up several of the same class and not repeat the same leveling experience.

Yes some of the quests in every zone were and are "kill x" and "collect y". but change the scenery, audio, loot, quest storylines, and its pretty diverse.

 

Not so in this game. everythings the same for each faction regardless the class EXCEPT the main story, and SLIGHT changes to npc "speech". 98% of the objectives, music/scenery, zone/planets.. quess what? the same.

 

THIS is what the OP was talking about. Not some blind rush to lvl cap missing content along the way.

 

As for your argument about "moneys worth".. you seriously dont believethis game has more content than WoW did at launch do you? you since i just pointed out that it doesnt...

 

WoW is old and dated, but its still as deverse and stable as ever. I loved it, was a great game in its way, and even vanilla was very much worth the cost. as for ToR, on my main; it was enjoyable up to lvl 30's, started to get stale then frustrating to finally i have trouble leveling my other 6 toons i got out of their starting areas. because i seen it all. Class specific story is a very small portion of the content here, and that its the only real thing that changes makes playing other toons all the way to 50 seem shallow. I rate the value of bang/buck at this stage a C+. WoW value content at release A-.

 

now if you want to compare bugs or broken pvp or lack of endgame i say theyre about even.

sadly though bioware has had YEARS to looks at WoW and many many other mmos to learn from and yet this is what we get. This to me is a play each faction once to level cap or so, and hang it up for 6 months for much needed polish and content release.

 

'nuff said

 

Even if you redacted all of the references to World of Warcraft, the concept is a good one. I grew to hate that game, but I can still reference it when I'm trying to explain why alt leveling in SWTOR is so... terrible. So before anyone starts ripping posts like these apart because they mention WoW, remember that some of us actually don't like the game and still point to strong points and redeeming qualities. Let's be honest, when we start thinking about leveling an alt, it's because we want to try to do things differently/better. It's like a do-over, each time perfecting the leveling and experiencing new things. How can you do that with SWTOR?

Edited February 16, 2012 by Traumahawk

[Anelitt]

I also feel that the repetetiveness is extra bad in this particular MMO, i tried several times to leven an alt but realizing that 95% of the quests are exactly the same made me stop.

 

Apart from that getting some voiceover to tell me go kill some wombrats is not really making it better for me

[Deisel]

Even if you redacted all of the references to World of Warcraft, the concept is a good one. I grew to hate that game, but I can still reference it when I'm trying to explain why alt leveling in SWTOR is so... terrible. So before anyone starts ripping posts like these apart because they mention WoW, remember that some of us actually don't like the game and still point to strong points and redeeming qualities. Let's be honest, when we start thinking about leveling an alt, it's because we want to try to do things differently/better. It's like a do-over, each time perfecting the leveling and experiencing new things. How can you do that with SWTOR?

 

Yup, honesty does reveal much to this game. its really a Dragon Age reskinned with a social hub city/zone. why even play through again? nothing changes.

 

I referenced WoW as just one example to the opposite, there are a few others, not many tho, but they do exist. Problem is, many of us were looking for it in this game. oh well. unsub should kick in soon. bye

[Traumahawk]

Yup, honesty does reveal much to this game. its really a Dragon Age reskinned with a social hub city/zone. why even play through again? nothing changes.

 

I referenced WoW as just one example to the opposite, there are a few others, not many tho, but they do exist. Problem is, many of us were looking for it in this game. oh well. unsub should kick in soon. bye

 

In some games I level alts because I see other classes with cool abilities and play styles and I want to experience it. In some I level alts because I have alternative paths to take (as you mentioned). In others, it's because I want to create a character that can engage in meaningful crafting for items I can't make on my own. But all of those things seem to be lacking substantially in this game. Oh.. and one point that's overlooked. I think once you master the mechanics of a game and equip your character in at least Superior gear, you should be able to tear through content. It's feedback and a reward for learning how the game operates. In this game, half the ACs get shredded by silver con mobs--not a challenge, just an annoyance. If I feed my alt with epic crafted gear, by darn I want it to take substantially less time to level it.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Traumahawk

[Drudenfusz]

This is The Alt Republic.

Funny thing is the German word 'Alt' means Old...

 

On topic: I started just a few days ago with my first alt. Decided to roll Empire, so that at least some content might be different (even though I have to visit most of the same worlds) from my level 50 character. But still I play mostly my main, because levelling was not fun for me the first time in SWTOR, so I am in no hurry to do so again.

[Boreus]

You can always just do class quests + pvp, that's what I did on my Juggernaut after already having leveled a Sorcerer and Operative. I was sick of the planet quests and just did warzones until I outleveled the current planet by a bit, then went back and did just the class quests and maybe a couple group quests that gave moddable gear. It was very refreshing not having to do the same thing for the third time and just enjoying the class story. Plus I feel like lower level pvp is more fun than pvp at 50 anyways. Edited February 16, 2012 by Boreus

[Amdarius]

This is the MMO way my friend. You level up you go to a new zone/planet. Rinse and repeat. On the bright side the stories are all different so that makes it fun for me.

 

This is the NEW MMO way. It certainly wasn't always the MMO way of old.

 

The worst part is you're running 98% the same quests over and over.. When I got to my second alt and had to head back to Quesh, I felt like shooting myself in the head. Cancelled right after that because I realized how sick I was of this very linear, very boring game.

[Rife]

ultimate problem is its too linear, one planet per level bracket, same quests per level bracket (minus the few class quests) most other mmo's have a handful of zones/places you can level in for each set of levels..

 

for example ive leveld thru tython 3 times with alts, if i have to do it one more time, well i wont do it so no more jedi alts.. ever

 

 

its too single player game linear...

 

oh and also, last night i was the ONLY person on one of the planets i was questing on... so, single player game all the way.. wtb f2p

[stephenjohnp]

I love making alts on this game.

[Razot]

" I lost my squad "

[Goretzu]

So if you're a raider, like me, once you have content on farm you run out of stuff to do so you level alts. The problem is that leveling in this game is terrible. Hats off to Bioware for adding story to the leveling experience, but I feel like every planet is just another level in a giant rail shooter disguised as an MMO.

 

Does anyone else feel this way, because it strikes me as a fairly big problem and may end up costing BW subs down the road.

 

 

Yes.

 

It gets worse the more times you've been through it too.

 

 

Unlike pretty much every other Western MMORPG there's ever been SWTOR only has ONE route for levelling, and a very restrictive one at that.

 

Whilst the story quality of that path is good, because it is only one and so restrictive.... unfortunately it soon gets old.

[Mephismo]

There is no way any half decent company could provide players who eat through all the content in a few weeks ,more stuff to do.

Do something else! Is that too difficult for you ?

[Goretzu]

There is no way any half decent company could provide players who eat through all the content in a few weeks ,more stuff to do.

Do something else! Is that too difficult for you ?

 

Do something else other than roll alts or do nothing at L50?

 

Fair enough, but what exactly would that be?

[Newbrax]

Interesting. This is the first MMO I've ever played that I've successfully leveled an alt to max level.

[Turkman]

No, saying that "every MMO is the same" is wrong.

You see... in other MMOs you can pick where you level up.

 

I have two level 50 characters and although I want to have a third I feel like I'd just die of boredom. And it would be so much better if I could pick another zone to level in.

We aren't given any freedom in where we're going and we end up just spaming spacebar on our second playthrough during side quests because who'd like to listen to all this crap again? I certainly wouldn't mind if it was just written in text, because after all... most people don't even read what's in it, they just click "accept" and go do it, because at the end of the day you may read and listen to what NPCs have to say but the result will always be the same - They'll need you to kill x amount of certain mobs or bring x amount of items from either some kind of containers or dead bodies.

 

The story in TOR is nice, but only the first time you do it. whenever I realise that I'll have to go through the most horrible planet (Corellia) again I just can't seem to force myself to log in onto my alt...

 

If I could choose 1 planet out of two on every level bracket I'd absolutely love it. I'm kinda surprised that they didn't add them in 6 years.

 

This is pretty much how I feel about the replayability of this game, too.

[Goretzu]

Interesting. This is the first MMO I've ever played that I've successfully leveled an alt to max level.

 

It's not bad the 1st time back through the same faction, the 2nd is much worse and by the 3rd I just couldn't take it anymore.

 

Obviously YMMV.

[VulcanLogic]

Funny, I've cleared the current raid content and I can't stop leveling my alts. The content is cleared too quickly not to, at least for me.

[Turkman]

So let me get this straight...in other games, you would just by-pass entire sections of content just to get to the end of the game? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of playing the game? I mean, you spent $60 for an out of box experience, don't you want you money's worth? I could see this if maybe there was no point to the game except for the end-game content (and there there already MMO "lite" games out there for this if that is what you want).

 

Plus, just about every RPG with a level system that is broken up into "zones" is designed so that each zone is to be tackled by the player during a given level rage. It's how the difficulty of the game is spread out. Unless there was some sort of dynamic level system where the mob levels are adjusted based on who aggored them, I don't know how you could make a cross-zone MMORPG. I mean, what happens if a lvl 50 player aggros a mob, which sets that mobs level to 50 and then runs away while a bunch of lvl 1 characters are there trying to complete their quests?

 

Again, I really don't see how TOR could have done things any different. It's the same system that even traditional, non-MMO RPG games use (with exceptions such as Skyrim which have a single world and dynamical leveling...but that is only a single player game).

 

You could have had more options. How to implement? Someway like this: You are at the end of your Dromund Kaas Questline: You choose to kill npc x -> your next quest takes you to balmorra. You choose to spare him and maybe even team up with him -> go to Planet y that has not been implemented yet (Something like the Witcher 2 did)

 

Of course this would have needed more time/money and maybe the whiners would cry why they didn't get to see everything with one runthrough. But for me at least it would enhance replayability greatly.

[Megaphys]

So at this point its too late to change the story line for every charachter, sooo what are the solutions?

 

probably best solution is to come up with alternate storylines and adventures that you can use to level, of course you will still have to do the planets for your class quests, so they cant completely seperate it.

 

also class quests and others were coordinated to take places in the same places as you go through them, so just doing class quest might feel a bit empty.

 

lets say....

 

they tie some new quests or a different progression to Legacy. So once your legacy name is unlocked you get access to new areas/planets/adventures.

 

These legacy adventures... should probably scale with level and party size, and have some different mechanics in place.

 

your reward exp/items/quest rewards, should scale with level as does the difficulty This way its viable for any level ranges, and can in fact be different as you level.

 

I would also try to make a branching adventure, where your choices effect the course of the adventure. In most stories the course of adventure is the same, although the choices may be different. Which bonus objectives you go for could be based on your choices as well. The branching should also extend to taking you in a different direction. Think of it like this, a sith and a jedi would basically have the same options, the choices would set them on different paths, not the fact they were a jedi.

 

for ex, kid is dying, you help the kid you go down a path of helping the kid, you let the kid die, you go down another path, you kill the kid and people are after you.

 

Essentially if your going to have to repeat the content, you can take it any number of differnt ways story wise, content wise it will be different most of the time, but even when its the same, what objectives and your play style will alter it. for example a stealth class will go for the be undetected bonus maybe and seek to clear an area fighting only the big bosses, and get bonus exp/reward for that. A fighter might seek to trip an alarm and fight waves of enemies in the first room until the boss actually comes to get you himself (a survival mode essentially) and get bonus exp for that.

 

Blah blah, already too long a post, but just how i think they could handle the issue of repeatable interesting content incorporated into the current system, which might not feel that grindy, but still works with a story/adventure heavy focus.

 

 

The story arc doesnt need to be super long, remember this unlocked through legacy, and these people have already done leveling at least to 31, you could make it unlock at a legacy level that means they got at least enough exp to have gotten to 50 on one chr.

 

Lets say its a 3-5 part story depending on which paths you follow. and can take you to various different locations (with different play mechanics depending on locations)

[Zero_Gravitas]

In vanilla WoW, you actually had hardly any choice as to where to level at game release. Now, because of the inflated XP while leveling, you can choose among many zones because of the crazy XP increase and people still just want to bypass it--even with the revisited Cataclysm old world content.

 

I skipped 4 planets, besides the class missions, when leveling my last alt because I did space missions and flashpoints. (That actually hurt, I was down about a million credits by the time I dinged 50.)

[Goretzu]

So at this point its too late to change the story line for every charachter, sooo what are the solutions?

 

probably best solution is to come up with alternate storylines and adventures that you can use to level, of course you will still have to do the planets for your class quests, so they cant completely seperate it.

 

 

 

I don't think they can do much with the class story lines.

 

The could put in new zones (maybe on different planet) that weren't voiced though.

This would cut down on the development massively, and allow them to construct 2 or 3 paths per faction to level though at a similar Dev cost to other MMOs (they could even voice them later if they wanted too).

[Goretzu]

In vanilla WoW, you actually had hardly any choice as to where to level at game release. Now, because of the inflated XP while leveling, you can choose among many zones because of the crazy XP increase and people still just want to bypass it--even with the revisited Cataclysm old world content.

 

I skipped 4 planets, besides the class missions, when leveling my last alt because I did space missions and flashpoints. (That actually hurt, I was down about a million credits by the time I dinged 50.)

 

 

Even vanilla WoW had 2-3 choices/paths per faction depending on your level.

 

People followed FOTM paths, but that was their choice.

[Embrosil]

I have my second character on lvl50 and about to finish Correlia. It is boring beyond belief. First I hit Correlia at lvl50, so no reason for me to kill any mobs, yet I have to, as my vanguard can not sneak in stealth past them as my scoundrel did. Second the level design is the second worst after Belsavis. So now I just ignore all mobs, just run away till they give up. Add the fact that elite bosses give you 500 - 900 credits if killed and nothing more, I really think about stopping to play after I finish the story.

I rolled a third char, an imperial agentess, but first, she is just a copy of my smuggler and second, I really hate empire quests. So my last choice would be to roll a Jedi, but thanks, I had enough with two republic characters. Doing the same boring quests third time requires a masochist which I am not.

I rember a LOTRO, where you could travel to human, elf or dwarven starting zones and do quests and leveling there. No linear go there and then there and how dare you asking for some freedom!

Edited February 16, 2012 by Embrosil