PvE Itemization Question/Discussion

[Xizari]

I play a PvE Marksman Sniper in all Columi/Rakata gear and I'm wondering if there's any other PvE Snipers out there that feel like our tier set statting is completely off.

 

For example, many of our BiS lists and even just common sense wisdom would indicate that Enforcer (Operative DPS Set) pieces are better then their Field Tech (Sniper) equivalents. I got my Rakata offhand tonight and I was stunned to find out that my Columi one was better...

 

 

I keep finding this issue where I'll "upgrade" a piece of gear only to take a stat drop in the process. I don't understand why they make us choose between Cunning and Power. Cunning is our primary stat.

 

Example 1:

 

 

Rakata Enforcer Leggings: +122 Cunning +48 Crit +51 Acc

Rakata Field Tech Leggings: +112 Cunning +48 Crit +51 accuracy

 

Rakata Enforcer Gloves: +122 Cunning +48 power +51 accuracy

Rakata Field Tech Gloves: +99 Cunning +57 power +51 accuracy

 

 

Now exactly what is my incentive to get my proper class set? +23 Cunning more then makes up for +9 Power... So many of us (myself included) are in the tedious process of having to double up on Rakata. Getting Enforcer Gloves or Pants, ripping the mods and then putting them in Field Tech equivalents (our 4 set drastically improves the DPE efficiency of Takedown). Which means we need to essentially get Gloves/Helm/Pants twice, if we want optimal stats and set bonus.

 

Example 2: (Vibroknives/Offhand)

 

Ghost (Rakata) +85 cunning, +82 power, +51 accuracy

The Cloaked Eliminator (Columi) +97 cunning, +72 crit +48 surge

 

Now I know people will say that +82 Power >>> +12 Cunning, and I agree. But the way the stats are paired, by equipping the Ghost and replacing my Cloaked Eliminator, my character took a stat decrease across the board in every stat except Accuracy + Primary Weapon Damage + Bonus Damage. I was actually hitting harder more consistently with my Columi knife equipped.

 

Losing 2-3% crit, 5% surge, and 12 cunning, to gain about +100 weapon damage, doesn't seem like a worth while gain.

 

 

 

I could be completely wrong, and I accept that; but I really just wanted to hear from other PvE Snipers out there, because I feel as if our itemization is lacking. I shouldn't have to hesitate by equipping my "proper" set or upgrading from Columi to Rakata. So I just really want to hear thoughts or opinions on this? BioWare just seems unsure how they want to stat us.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Xizari

[Crankyhobo]

Enforcer is for operatives, obviously. And whats with all the accuracy? ridiculous. What we're forced to do is get two or more sets of gear and switch the mods/enhancements. Battle-master would helps for this, i have been repeatedly getting the champion enforcers helm/gloves for the enhancement, but now after surge was 're-balanced' i need to reduce my surge

 

Enforcer:

2 pieces: Increases the critical chance of Backstab or Backblast by 15%.

4 pieces: Increases maximum energy by 5

 

Field Tech:

2 pieces: Activating Target Acquired or Illegal Mods restores 10 energy.

4 pieces: Reduces the energy cost of Takedown and Quickdraw by 7.[/b]

Edited February 15, 2012 by Crankyhobo

[DestyOwn]

Maybe the ghost is better post surge nerf, since you probably already stack surge in your mods.

[Nullcrobicus]

ghost is better. you need a certain amount of accuracy anyways. swap out the accuracy enhancements on your armor. get accuracy from off-hand/implants/earpiece

 

a mastercrafted nano-optic skill package with cunning aug compared to our rakata implant will have 5 more cunning, 29 accuracy, and 25 crit at the cost of 11 power/surge and a bunch of endurance. I guess if you like doing dailies for a month and having a bunch of HP in pve, then you would prefer the rakata.

 

also, our columi earpiece only has 6 less cunning and 3 accuracy while having 41 power compared to the 44 crit on a rakata. Assuming the columi earpiece can be crit when crafted, a mastercraft would be much better for dps over the rakata.

 

with 2 nano optic skill implants, ghost, the rakata earpiece, and the 3% accuracy talent, I am at 8.37% bonus accuracy using 0 accuracy enhancements.

 

bounty hunters get 41 power black-red color crystals in their rakata weaps while we get 41 crit

Edited February 15, 2012 by Nullcrobicus

[Xizari]

I know Enforcer is for Operatives obviously, but on a piece by piece basis it's often better than Field Tech.

 

 

My complaint is that, Rakata is supposed to be the current "top of the mountain" for PvE gear. It's immensely stupid that I have to then re-do all the gear with expensive mods or get doubles of the pieces and switch them around to obtain my set bonuses. There is no logical reason for another AC's armor to be better than your own, that's just a terrible oversight by BioWare.

 

Also, I know Ghost is supposed to be better. But the way I'm currently stated, my stats actually decrease with Ghost equipped. Unless you need the accuracy Ghost is mediocre.

 

 

We have to spend SO much on Accuracy that i leaves us very little room to get anything else (like Surge). I'm 4/5 Rakata, with Rakata Offhand/Mainhand, Earpiece, Bracers, Belt right now...and I have 0 Surge (Huh?). If you look through the Rakata vendor as a Sniper you will see that there is not a single piece of Surge Sniper gear (if my memory serves me).

 

I understand having to remod and swap things, but this is ridiculous. If I had to move a mod here and there, that'd be fine. But having to re-do every piece of gear I have, every time I replace something is a tedious and expensive system.

 

 

I just find Snipers to be itemized poorly. Operatives seem to be doing much better.

 

 

 

 

ghost is better. you need a certain amount of accuracy anyways. swap out the accuracy enhancements on your armor. get accuracy from off-hand/implants/earpiece

 

a mastercrafted nano-optic skill package with cunning aug compared to our rakata implant will have 5 more cunning, 29 accuracy, and 25 crit at the cost of 11 power/surge and a bunch of endurance. I guess if you like doing dailies for a month and having a bunch of HP in pve, then you would prefer the rakata.

 

also, our columi earpiece only has 6 less cunning and 3 accuracy while having 41 power compared to the 44 crit on a rakata. Assuming the columi earpiece can be crit when crafted, a mastercraft would be much better for dps over the rakata.

 

with 2 nano optic skill implants, ghost, the rakata earpiece, and the 3% accuracy talent, I am at 8.37% bonus accuracy using 0 accuracy enhancements.

 

bounty hunters get 41 power black-red color crystals in their rakata weaps while we get 41 crit

 

Yeah I agree. 8.37% comes out to what number exactly do you know? I keep hearing that we need 108% total accuracy but everyone's math or details on this seems to be shaky at best. And they keep making us choose Power over Cunning on a great many items (such as Ghost), did I miss something where Power became our #1 stat? From all the scaling I've looked at, Cunning seems like it's overall a better stat due to it's versatility. Power does a lot for our primary weapon damage, but I'm not sure what the scaling for Weapon Damage with our abilities is.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Xizari

[Nullcrobicus]

 

 

Yeah I agree. 8.37% comes out to what number exactly do you know? I keep hearing that we need 108% total accuracy but everyone's math or details on this seems to be shaky at best. And they keep making us choose Power over Cunning on a great many items (such as Ghost), did I miss something where Power became our #1 stat? From all the scaling I've looked at, Cunning seems like it's overall a better stat due to it's versatility. Power does a lot for our primary weapon damage, but I'm not sure what the scaling for Weapon Damage with our abilities is.

 

We need 8% accuracy which = 108% on all attacks besides rifle shot. There really is no choice of power over cunning because enhancements do not have cunning. The best mods are the ones with ~48 cunning/~37 power and the best enhancements are power/surge and a couple crit/surge. Power is good because it does not suffer from diminishing returns.

[Locke]

From what I've seen, all the Rakata sets for all dps classes have tons of pointless accuracy. It's a pretty common complaint, and if IA's horrible set bonuses weren't evidence enough of BioWare's terrible pve itemization, the stats on the sets themselves are. Edited February 19, 2012 by Locke

[Ghobe]

Power becomes better than cunning when you start caring less about crit due to it scaling better for raw power.

[Xizari]

Power becomes better than cunning when you start caring less about crit due to it scaling better for raw power.

 

Yeah I'm thinking Power is going to eliminate Surge at some point too, but w/o meters that's just speculation. BioWare doesn't seem to want us to have Surge...

 

At the same time most of our abilities get 30% crit damage off Imperial Assassin, so Surge might not be as amazing as we think. We already have 80% Surge (after talents) on SoS/Takedown/Followthrough. Ambush with it's 20% Armor Ignore tends to crit pretty hard even without high levels of Surge. So I'm just wondering how much we really need Surge considering it only really works on Ambush/Snipe/Orbital Strike (OS can crit, can't it?).

 

Power would buff every one of our abilities where Surge might not. Around 70% Surge starts hitting DR's does it not? I'm wondering if that would affect the Surge scaling on SoS/Followthrough/Takedown.

 

 

UNLESS, Crit Damage (Imperial Assassin) is a different statistic than Crit Multiplier (Surge) in which case my brainstorming right now would be completely off.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Xizari

[Ghobe]

Yeah I'm thinking Power is going to eliminate Surge at some point too, but w/o meters that's just speculation. BioWare doesn't seem to want us to have Surge...

 

At the same time most of our abilities get 30% crit damage off Imperial Assassin, so Surge might not be as amazing as we think. We already have 80% Surge (after talents) on SoS/Takedown/Followthrough. Ambush with it's 20% Armor Ignore tends to crit pretty hard even without high levels of Surge. So I'm just wondering how much we really need Surge considering it only really works on Ambush/Snipe/Orbital Strike (OS can crit, can't it?).

 

Power would buff every one of our abilities where Surge might not. Around 70% Surge starts hitting DR's does it not? I'm wondering if that would affect the Surge scaling on SoS/Followthrough/Takedown.

 

 

UNLESS, Crit Damage (Imperial Assassin) is a different statistic than Crit Multiplier (Surge) in which case my brainstorming right now would be completely off.

 

Surge begins hard DRing at 75%.

 

Surge rating is probably immensely valuable up until that point(which is 200-250 surge rating...somewhere in that range), so really I think when it comes to raid gear, we need to hold onto 4 columi surge enhancements and we should be capped on that, and not have to worry about it anymore(which I know we shouldn't need to do, but we do and that's how it is...for now).

 

And as far as I understand it, that Crit Damage stacks with the Crit Multiplier so in my mind these skills(SoS/FT/TD) would hard DR at a total of 105%(can not confirm or prove, just how the wording has me believing).

 

And yes Orbital Strike can crit.

 

So in my mind right now...108% accuracy > 75% surge > 30% crit > Power > cunning > aim > crit > surge > accuracy > shield chance > absorption > alacrity.....on gear anyways.

[Tibbel]

Surge begins hard DRing at 75%.

 

This is incorrect.

 

All DRs start at 0 rating -- meaning there's no "break point" where it suddenly becomes less valuable (i.e. a soft cap). It's a smooth curve.

 

There is a point where power overtakes surge in DPS contribution (because of power's immunity to DR), but that's not at any specific rating. It depends heavily on your spec and your other stats.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Tibbel

[Ghobe]

This is incorrect.

 

All DRs start at 0 rating -- meaning there's no "break point" where it suddenly becomes less valuable (i.e. a soft cap). It's a smooth curve.

 

There is a point where power overtakes surge in DPS contribution (because of power's immunity to DR), but that's not at any specific rating. It depends heavily on your spec and your other stats.

 

Wrong. In patch 1.1.3 they gave surge rating a HEAVY DR at 75%. Not like a 10% cut, HEAVY...like 98% DR.

 

Feel free to completely load yourself up in surge gear and use a surge relic. You don't go far at all as compared to the first couple hundred points ;p

 

EDIT: rofl...it's your chart too...Chart Link

Edited February 21, 2012 by Ghobe

[Xizari]

Surge begins hard DRing at 75%.

 

Surge rating is probably immensely valuable up until that point(which is 200-250 surge rating...somewhere in that range), so really I think when it comes to raid gear, we need to hold onto 4 columi surge enhancements and we should be capped on that, and not have to worry about it anymore(which I know we shouldn't need to do, but we do and that's how it is...for now).

 

And as far as I understand it, that Crit Damage stacks with the Crit Multiplier so in my mind these skills(SoS/FT/TD) would hard DR at a total of 105%(can not confirm or prove, just how the wording has me believing).

 

And yes Orbital Strike can crit.

 

So in my mind right now...108% accuracy > 75% surge > 30% crit > Power > cunning > aim > crit > surge > accuracy > shield chance > absorption > alacrity.....on gear anyways.

 

BUT, much of our accuracy comes off the Rakata enhancements. I'm in almost full Rakata and I'm at 107.64% Accuracy (i know it's not 108 -_-). It's not easy to have the space to swap to Surge. Something needs to give with our Accuracy, it occupies way too much of our gear. If we're going to need 500+ Accuracy Rating to be PvE Soft Capped, then they need to give us a Surge boost somewhere else.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Xizari

[Irenicus_Jon]

I still find keeping around 200 surge rating helps. This gives a solid crit multiplier without getting you into the black hole of substantial DR. These pieces come with crit rating so I don't have to stack any more crit rating (I run with 42% crit chance when fully buffed).

 

After this my mod priority is whatever has the highest total of cunning+power (equal value, though maybe I should give power a slight priority). I am in full enforcer columni (with rakata pants) and I have replaced a lot of mods/enhancements even in that setup (because a lot of pieces had the higher cunning mod with crit rating or something). I don'T mind having accuracy+power on my Rakata pieces (as long as their total of cunning+power is not lower than other modifications) since I can replace a few enchancements with lower quality ones to keep crit rating and surge at a desired level.

 

Also, I have a rakata earpiece but I replace my implants with augmented columni ones since they have higher stats.

[Tibbel]

Wrong. In patch 1.1.3 they gave surge rating a HEAVY DR at 75%. Not like a 10% cut, HEAVY...like 98% DR.

 

Feel free to completely load yourself up in surge gear and use a surge relic. You don't go far at all as compared to the first couple hundred points ;p

 

EDIT: rofl...it's your chart too...Chart Link

 

Please, if you're not a math person, don't try to argue math.

 

If you take another look at the graph (or the formula, which is available at SithWarrior.com), you'll see that going from 74% to 75% surge only takes very slightly fewer rating points than going from 75% to 76%. There's no sudden onset of diminishing returns or soft cap or anything like that.

 

This is the case throughout the whole curve. There's not a single spot where one percentage point increase is vastly different than the next.

 

The DR starts at 0 and continues throughout the entire range of possible stat ratings.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Tibbel