Is there a way to make defense Guadians less of a piece of junk in the dps area

[Venator-Falco]

I think what he's saying is that he's not making an impact.

 

He's spec'd to tank, but he doesn't feel like he is durable enough to warrant not dealing any damage. I think asking for more damage was just a "Would be silly to make me invincible" idea, but really he just wants to feel like the class is properly balanced.

 

Though as I pointed out, if he is new to PVP which appears to be the case, then with no Expertise he is going to struggle

[Aelaias]

I think what he's saying is that he's not making an impact.

 

He's spec'd to tank, but he doesn't feel like he is durable enough to warrant not dealing any damage. I think asking for more damage was just a "Would be silly to make me invincible" idea, but really he just wants to feel like the class is properly balanced.

 

Thank you. There I thought I didn't make my point adequately.

[Aelaias]

Though as I pointed out, if he is new to PVP which appears to be the case, then with no Expertise he is going to struggle

 

I am pvping against people with no expertise.

[Aelaias]

Guardians are insanely good if you spec it properly for pvp, the higher tiers of the defense tree ARE garbage. Period. It's not worth 3 cents in my book for either pvp OR pve. Others can argue till they're blue in the face how grand the defense tree is. I've played a guardian since beta and I know better. You wanna tank pvpe/pvp both? use a 14/27 defense vigi spec.

 

This is a quote from monkeyGenius and a build he posted. It's exellent. I use it and can attest to it's toughness and very good damage and I'm not lil Miss pvp goddess by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

Greetings,

 

I prefer this build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crhczZhRrMrhdzMM.1

 

I actually wrote an extensive review of the build over at my blog, the link is here: http://guard-this.com/2011/12/10/hyb...uild-overview/

 

Hope this helps!

 

Thanks, I will try that. Should I stack crits/surge for this build?

Edited February 16, 2012 by Aelaias

[Orabus]

Sub 50, using mods. I tried stacking power to no avail.

 

Defense specced guards really shine with a group to support them. The main thing you should be going after is protection and some damage. Minimally you'd need to make friends with a healer in a PUG, and stick with them. Make sure they stay alive. If your lucky youll have a dps or 2 with you also because hey... enemies go after healers

[TipsyDrow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TipsyDrow

Guardians are insanely good if you spec it properly for pvp, the higher tiers of the defense tree ARE garbage. Period. It's not worth 3 cents in my book for either pvp OR pve. Others can argue till they're blue in the face how grand the defense tree is. I've played a guardian since beta and I know better. You wanna tank pvpe/pvp both? use a 14/27 defense vigi spec.

 

This is a quote from monkeyGenius and a build he posted. It's exellent. I use it and can attest to it's toughness and very good damage and I'm not lil Miss pvp goddess by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

Greetings,

 

I prefer this build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crhczZhRrMrhdzMM.1

 

I actually wrote an extensive review of the build over at my blog, the link is here: http://guard-this.com/2011/12/10/hyb...uild-overview/

 

Hope this helps!

 

Thanks, I will try that. Should I stack crits/surge for this build?

Thanks, I will try that. Should I stack crits/surge for this build?

 

Some folks may prefer stacking purely defense stats but I go this route. I use guardian armoring for a balance. I use might mods over guardian mods for more strength and power. I use prostection/immunity enhancements stacking in this order defense/shield rating/absorbtion. Now that's pre lvl 50. At lvl 50 i slowly gained pvp gear for pvp and am using a balance of dps/tank gear. For me it works well. You may prefer all tank gear or all dps gear. Now I'm only valor rank 43 so champ stuff is the best i can get. I'm leaning towards a full dps set when able to get battle master gear piece by piece and just put in some tank enhancments to keep defense/shield rating/absorbtion at decent lvls. You will see folks say shield doesn't procin pvp much and they're right. But it does proc occasionally so i keep it balanced. Again I am no pvp expert by any stretch. Read other posts, google some other sites. You find what suits you best through tirla and error and mainly just goin out there and slaughtering some imps. Make em cry, it'll give you wamr fuzzies when the sorc tears flow.

[clearsighted]

Guardians are insanely good if you spec it properly for pvp, the higher tiers of the defense tree ARE garbage. Period. It's not worth 3 cents in my book for either pvp OR pve. Others can argue till they're blue in the face how grand the defense tree is. I've played a guardian since beta and I know better. You wanna tank pvpe/pvp both? use a 14/27 defense vigi spec.

 

This is a quote from monkeyGenius and a build he posted. It's exellent. I use it and can attest to it's toughness and very good damage and I'm not lil Miss pvp goddess by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

Greetings,

 

I prefer this build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crhczZhRrMrhdzMM.1

 

I actually wrote an extensive review of the build over at my blog, the link is here: http://guard-this.com/2011/12/10/hyb...uild-overview/

 

Hope this helps!

 

All I get from your link is access denied.

[Alexi_son]

An Ironbreaker was a defensive tank done right, in a game that rewarded tanking and gave it meaning.

 

Jedi Knight *is not* done right, in spec nor skill trees. Especially for PvP as a tank spec.

 

Ironbreaker was my second favorite tank class ever, in a long list of tanks and games I've played. Favorite was a Justicar in Rift.

 

Jedi Knight as a tank just feels - poorly pieced together, it doesn't mesh well, even with itself.

[Alexi_son]

The problem I have with the hybrid def/vig guardian spec is if I want to be able to tank, I should be able to actually tank a mob, and not having to hop around all over the place like some sort of lightsaber wielding jackrabbit.

 

I played a Riftstalker in RIFT, and that's another tank class based around jumping around, and sure I can do it, I just don't enjoy it and I feel like it's a cheesy mechanic. Same with the hybrid build in SWToR. And on boss-fights or other solo fights, there's not always another mob or player around to play lea-frog with.

 

The guardian defense tree should be made viable to actually stand there and tank a mob, and not have players all forced to accept the jackrabbit mechanic to make it work passably well.

[bamsmacked]

Guardian tanks can't do damage in Warzones but tanking Powertech/Vanguard and Shadows/Assassins can sure out DPS a DPS class.

 

Which is ridonkculous.

[EzoEo]

An Ironbreaker was a defensive tank done right, in a game that rewarded tanking and gave it meaning.

 

Jedi Knight *is not* done right, in spec nor skill trees. Especially for PvP as a tank spec.

 

Ironbreaker was my second favorite tank class ever, in a long list of tanks and games I've played. Favorite was a Justicar in Rift.

 

Jedi Knight as a tank just feels - poorly pieced together, it doesn't mesh well, even with itself.

 

I actually feel as Knight tank that our class works very well.

 

I've been in groups with Vanguards with similar gear and seen them drop while a guardian I am still left alive because of the survivability we have.

 

The skills trees I would work well enough but there is still room for improvement.

 

I played Warden in LoTRO and Knight has a very similar play style to that and is what I would call your more typical tank class .

[clearsighted]

I actually feel as Knight tank that our class works very well.

 

I've been in groups with Vanguards with similar gear and seen them drop while a guardian I am still left alive because of the survivability we have.

 

The skills trees I would work well enough but there is still room for improvement.

 

I played Warden in LoTRO and Knight has a very similar play style to that and is what I would call your more typical tank class .

 

Oh, come on...

 

The Guardian is NOTHING like LOTRO's Warden. Not even remotely close. The closest class that the swtor Guardian resembles (including damage and survivability wise) from lotro is a tanky Champion without the shing-shing.

 

Tanky Champions sucked.

[TipsyDrow]

All I get from your link is access denied.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500dMG0uZhGr0rhdzMM.1

 

Sorry. Here's a working link to the 14/27 defense/vigi build. I did not come up with this build it is not original. Many people use it. It is a wonderful build.

Edited February 16, 2012 by TipsyDrow

[Alexi_son]

It's a wonderful build for those still undecided whether to fight the mobs or play leapfrog with them.

 

If I ever make a Froglok guardian, I'll use that build.

[Y-Yorle]

Guardian tanks can't do damage in Warzones but tanking Powertech/Vanguard and Shadows/Assassins can sure out DPS a DPS class.

 

Which is ridonkculous.

 

This is how I feel as well having played both a Defense Guardian and Shield Tech BH. I just seem to do a lot more dmg on my BH and the fact I have plenty of ranged skills on him helps even more. You'd think for balancing purposes the melee class of the two would at least out-dps the ranged one once said melee gets in range, but this is not the case as far as I can tell. While a Guardian to a point can certainly outlast a BH in a zerg, the once in a 3m Warding Call ability just doesn't seem worth the much very much lower amount of dmg I do on Defense Guardian.

 

Though I have to say I play differently on Guardian then BH. Defense Guardian is all about being the big nuisance (by spamming Freezing Force for example) for those that seek to harm your party rather then being more offensive. Then again, the best way to ultimately protect your party is by killing your opposition. This is something a Guardian lacks in even with a pocket healer, while the ST BH certainly has little trouble with it in my experience.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Y-Yorle

[PhoR]

The plain fact of the matter is that you need a high focus generation rate to make a defense build do damage. In PvE, it works fine because you can control who the mobs attack, and as long as you're getting beat on, Courage and Cyclonic sweeps keep you fed with enough focus to keep an active rotation.

 

But the second you stop getting attacked, your DPS in a Defense heavy build drops faster than Newt Gingrich's approval rating any time anyone brings up the fact that he divorced 2 wives after they were diagnosed with major diseases.

 

But there is a silver lining in the 14/27/0 spec because you can tank just as well as a full Defense build in PvE but aren't affected anywhere near as much by the focus generation problem present in the Defense build.

[Chunkie]

46, mostly defense with 5 in vigilance. And the play better copout is idiotic, quite frankly. I have a lvl 45 purple hilt, hoth armoring and mods loaded to the brim with power. The damage in pvp is crap however you twirl it. The glowstick tickles.

 

Um ya, you're tank specced, what do you expect? Learn to play your role. You're supposed to be tanking and protecting in WZ as well, unless you spec DPS.

[Wrathoran]

lol @people saying play better

 

The guy wanna be a tank and do not so bad dps. I understand what he ask.

People post him a build of a dps saying that if he want to dps , he need to be dps, not offering what the guy is searching for.

 

Ill give you the answer. If you want to dps and tank. Play a shadow/assassin or a Vanguard/Powertech.

 

If you only want to tank and not dps , play JKG

 

I top dps(quite often or really not far from it) , protection(always) , objectives and medals in pvp with my vanguard no problems since level 14.

 

After getting valor 10 with my JKG i had to put it aside, it was terrible. I can defend a node, yeah. I can max protection yeah. But i cant kill the attacker who come. Dont have that problem with my Vanguard