Boring Static World of SWTOR

[gurugeorge]

I wouldn't put it so drastically - I mean maybe some people need to go for a walk outside

 

Big deal - it has voices ... I mean you're putting it like it's a huge deep mind breaking thing ... the year is 2012

 

I think you're underestimating the power of the voices in an MMO context - maybe you're not all that into it, but I suspect it's precisely what's going to make the game surprisingly successful (as it's already surprisingly not failed after the first month).

 

i.e., "kill 10 rats" when given by engaging voice acting really does actually feel very different from "kill 10 rats" text. If you actually watch the puppet show and listen to the actor, catch the quality the actor's putting into their desperation for the widget, or the clickie to be fixed or whatever, it's much more engaging by miles. The only disappointment is that it's usually just a bit of combat or a clickie. In a way, the VO is so good you're geed up for something that can't actually be delivered. It's just glowies, clickies and combat - THAT's the problem, if anything. Again, by contrast, the VO is highliighting the inadequacies of the type of gameplay that we're normally happy to indulge in because it has little emotional weight. As soon as some emotional weight comes in we expect more (somehow).

 

But also, with the VO, again, I'm finding the grouped dialogues to be more and more fun, much more fun than I thought they would be just by reading about them (again "VO, ho-hum" was pretty much my attitude too). There's something addictive and moreish - and very much an MMORPG experience - about the grouped dialogues.

 

To put it a way that most of us will understand - the grouped dialogues give you another dimension to lol at together. And lol-ing together at in-game stuff is one of the main things about MMOs, part of the social "glue". (What I mean is, dialogues usually involve the actual dialogue, plus some party chat where people talk about their decisions, or about how one of the team looks, or about how dorky the NPC looks, or whatever - and that, again, is MMO social glue).

[otakuon]

oddly enough even with voices I still hit spacebar

 

Blah blah blah

 

Just tell me how many womp rats to kill

 

Every kill task quest I ever receive has me thinking - I thought this was ground breaking?

 

I don't really think I'm a long term player tbh - unless things get radically different - I was already done with WoW and all the rest. I just somehow thought this may be new and fresh

 

And that is a valid reason to not be all that excited about TOR. If you don't find the dialog interesting, then you are probably not going to find much more about that game that is different then anything else.

 

Look, I would have loved for TOR to be some radical paradigm shift in the MMO genre, but, quite frankly, I don't think ANY of us know what the shift needs to be. For now, we just hold on to the hope that the next one will be far and away better then all the others before it, and when it turns out to be only and incremental improvement, or a horizontal improvement, we are inevitable disappointed.

 

Guess all I am saying is that I learned long that my own personal expectations need to be kept in check and as long as a game provides me with a compelling reason to play it, I will.

 

What that compelling reason is, will be different for all of us.

[Solemnone]

LOL, and how is the world any more static than actual players at level 50 all standing around waiting for queues to pop?

 

The mall is only active because people are in it doing stuff... take away the people and it gets pretty static. You want activity? Fill it up with your friends. Duel. Dance. Run around in circles.

 

It's only static because you let it be.

 

I love the game, I play all the time, and I'm not going anywhere; but you're arguing the same weak argument that everyone else argues. I guess we should all hang out in cantinas pretending to converse with NPCs or something? Yeah, that sounds like fun...

 

You shouldn't have to make up things to do in order for the world to feel alive, the game should provide that at all times; like the previous person already stated, the game has no soul. That doesn't mean it isn't fun, and rewarding, it just makes you sleepy when you're not out with guild mates doing something. The closest they came to capturing some sort of living breathing area is on Voss.

[Rykko]

There are times this game acheives what I previously thought was the near impossible feat of making me miss some parts of SWG whose worlds did seem more dynamic by comparison.

 

It's not like the worlds in TOR don't follow the MMO model of mobs strewn about the place and so on but somehow it's all so flat and uninteresting for reasons I can't quite put my finger on.

[vanisle]

I think you're underestimating the power of the voices in an MMO context - maybe you're not all that into it, but I suspect it's precisely what's going to make the game surprisingly successful (as it's already surprisingly not failed after the first month).

 

i.e., "kill 10 rats" when given by engaging voice acting really does actually feel very different from "kill 10 rats" text. If you actually watch the puppet show and listen to the actor, catch the quality the actor's putting into their desperation for the widget, or the clickie to be fixed or whatever, it's much more engaging by miles. The only disappointment is that it's usually just a bit of combat or a clickie. In a way, the VO is so good you're geed up for something that can't actually be delivered. It's just glowies, clickies and combat - THAT's the problem, if anything. Again, by contrast, the VO is highliighting the inadequacies of the type of gameplay that we're normally happy to indulge in because it has little emotional weight. As soon as some emotional weight comes in we expect more (somehow).

 

But also, with the VO, again, I'm finding the grouped dialogues to be more and more fun, much more fun than I thought they would be just by reading about them (again "VO, ho-hum" was pretty much my attitude too). There's something addictive and moreish - and very much an MMORPG experience - about the grouped dialogues.

 

To put it a way that most of us will understand - the grouped dialogues give you another dimension to lol at together. And lol-ing together at in-game stuff is one of the main things about MMOs, part of the social "glue". (What I mean is, dialogues usually involve the actual dialogue, plus some party chat where people talk about their decisions, or about how one of the team looks, or about how dorky the NPC looks, or whatever - and that, again, is MMO social glue).

 

Well maybe they were onto something with the group dialogue and there should of been even more focus on that sort of thing? Like rollback to group combat choice sessions where you have to choose, best choice wins, attack is made. I dunno? Something different in a sea of samesies. You know what I mean. Once the sun comes I'll be gone if this game doesn;t deliver. See it again next long dreary winter.

[Sentry_gun]

> Remove Battlegrounds

> Give good rewards for killing players at or near your level

> Watch game explode to life as certain areas become full blown warzones

> Ignore the crying from players who wanted some life in their MMO but cant handle it once they get it

> PROFIT

[vanisle]

> Remove Battlegrounds

> Give good rewards for killing players at or near your level

> Watch game explode to life as certain areas become full blown warzones

> Ignore the crying from players who wanted some life in their MMO but cant handle it once they get it

> PROFIT

 

I'd rather cry than mope

 

Challenge is great - I don't think the player base is made of nerf crying sissies anymore...is it? I've been out of mmo's for too long

Edited February 15, 2012 by vanisle

[Blavatsky]

Problems of the First World

 

" My Video Game is Too Boring"

 

[DJJAZZY]

I do have to agree that the world/s are pretty darn static.

 

I've been playing Assassins Creed (the newest one) as well and the difference couldn't be more stark. I know that AC a single player game but the difference was just amazing. Now I do think BioWare could have done better with the world such as have non static npcs, night/day cycles, differing weather patterns, some better ambient sounds, heck even clickable npcs would be a start.

Edited February 15, 2012 by DJJAZZY

[otakuon]

Problems of the First World

 

" My Video Game is Too Boring"

 

 

Well...this is essentially why the console market is dying and people are turning to Social Games (aka Farmville) and Mobile-phone games. Bite size morsels of games that they can consume in small chunks and then move on to the next endlessly published micro-game.

Edited February 15, 2012 by otakuon

[Blavatsky]

I do have to agree that the world/s are pretty darn static.

 

I've been playing Assassins Creed (the newest one) as well and the difference couldn't be more stark. I know that AC a single player game but the difference was just amazing. Now I do think BioWare could have done better with the world such as have non static npcs, night/day cycles, differing weather patterns, some better ambient sounds, heck even clickable npcs would be a start.

 

actually agree here.

 

the scenery does seem painted on the walls.

 

Still having fun though.

 

im easy

[vanisle]

Problems of the First World

 

" My Video Game is Too Boring"

 

 

I love this

[Blavatsky]

Well...this is essentially why the console market is dying and people are turning to Social Games (aka Farmville) and Mobile-phone games. Bite size morsels of games that they can consume in small chunks and then move on to the next endlessly published micro-game.

 

cant believe those games are such a hit , they are the most played online games.

 

Then i look at our market, MMO however you choose to precisify it.

 

and think

 

are we different? is this just a more sophisticated version of farmville.

 

perhaps

[otakuon]

I do have to agree that the world/s are pretty darn static.

 

I've been playing Assassins Creed (the newest one) as well and the difference couldn't be more stark. I know that AC a single player game but the difference was just amazing. Now I do think BioWare could have done better with the world such as have non static npcs, night/day cycles, differing weather patterns, some better ambient sounds, heck even clickable npcs would be a start.

 

Yeah...then you got people who complain that the game-play in AC is repetitive and that all the missions are basically the same thing.

 

These days, it's impossible to satisfy the "modern" gamer who expects nothing less then absolute perfection and the expectation that every game released will be better and "different" then any game previously released. I think it is a side effect from having a saturated market of high-quality games for the past few years. Devs are now left scratching their heads trying to find out just what exactly the gamer market wants and it's pretty much an impossible task for them to deliver.

[vanisle]

Yeah...then you got people who complain that the game-play in AC is repetitive and that all the missions are basically the same thing.

 

These days, it's impossible to satisfy the "modern" gamer who expects nothing less then absolute perfection and the expectation that every game released will be better and "different" then any game previously released. I think it is a side effect from having a saturated market of high-quality games for the past few years. Devs are now left scratching their heads trying to find out just what exactly the gamer market wants and it's pretty much an impossible task for them to deliver.

 

It's called creativity. SOmetimes less is more. I mean they pump us full of trash titles and maybe the world just needs a few great ones.

 

Maybe out with the old and in with the new. Retire some of these long standing dev's and put in some new blood, some new ideas - like industry wide. Break a mold or two. Take a chance.

 

It's all inside the box. Where the money is. The money is not outside the box until someone has the balls to try, then that idea gets put in the box too.

 

How can we know what we want? It's new, we haven't experienced it yet?

 

I'll tell you what - I can;t wait to be surprised. But not this game...it didn;t surprise me once.

[Sentry_gun]

I'd rather cry than mope

 

Challenge is great - I don't think the player base is made of nerf crying sissies anymore...is it? I've been out of mmo's for too long

 

You've been out of MMO's far too long by the looks of things. People cry about everything, whether its excess or lack of challenge, features, rewards given for doing (or not doing) things that consume time, wether or not they are able to engage in pixelated sexy girl on girl encounters with 98% of the games NPC's as well as complaining about the class representation regardless of wether the players or the devs are responsible for it.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Sentry_gun

[vanisle]

Meh, so long as people are willing to accept the same old thing reiterated the companies will continue to put out the same old.

 

This is another WOW clone imo.

 

Wake up.

 

Seriously. Tell yourself different and you're fooling yourself.

 

Don;t settle for less anymore - you deserve better,

[Blavatsky]

These days, it's impossible to satisfy the "modern" gamer who expects nothing less then absolute perfection .

 

only quoting a portion here, but this segement resonates with me.

 

The developer must offer a world that is.

 

Expansive

Rewarding

Difficult

conquerable

repeatable without being dull

Exciting

accesible to all

 

These are just a few general attritubes but i think the reader sees how these are mutually exclusive.

 

Its hard to deliver a complete MMO on release, nigh impossible

 

existing games offer this but only after years of content steadily introduced.

 

The game must be simutaneously difficult enough to feel rewarding for beating some encounter or plodding through some grind.

 

But also accesible and easy enough that any player can acheive what the game has to offer in totality.

 

schizophrenic we are

[vanisle]

only quoting a portion here, but this segement resonates with me.

 

The developer must offer a world that is.

 

Expansive

Rewarding

Difficult

conquerable

repeatable without being dull

Exciting

accesible to all

 

These are just a few general attritubes but i think the reader sees how these are mutually exclusive.

 

Its hard to deliver a complete MMO on release, nigh impossible

 

existing games offer this but only after years of content steadily introduced.

 

The game must be simutaneously difficult enough to feel rewarding for beating some encounter or plodding through some grind.

 

But also accesible and easy enough that any player can acheive what the game has to offer in totality.

 

schizophrenic we are

 

How about something that isn;t the same as ever? Lets reiterate all that and keep it simple

[otakuon]

It's called creativity. SOmetimes less is more. I mean they pump us full of trash titles and maybe the world just needs a few great ones.

 

Maybe out with the old and in with the new. Retire some of these long standing dev's and put in some new blood, some new ideas - like industry wide. Break a mold or two. Take a chance.

 

It's all inside the box. Where the money is. The money is not outside the box until someone has the balls to try, then that idea gets put in the box too.

 

How can we know what we want? It's new, we haven't experienced it yet?

 

I'll tell you what - I can;t wait to be surprised. But not this game...it didn;t surprise me once.

 

Yes, we have a lot of great ideas coming out of the "indie developer" sphere, and with platforms like the iPhone that has really taken off. Especially since these "indie games" can sell for just a few dollars or pennies. But most of these gamers are not that type of product that a big publisher could build a large scale game, such as an MMO around. It would be a major risk, and in this economy, with the game industry as fragile as it is, it is a risk no major publisher is going to find worth it.

 

Take the "indie darling" : Minecraft. By all accounts, that is perhaps the most successful self-published computer game of all time. It's fun for many people, but they are still just a small niche compared to the overall gamer market. Minecraft lacks mass appeal and most "mainstream" (i.e. casual) games are bored to tears by Minecraft or just "don't get it" ("why does it have such awful graphics?"). If Minecraft was considered a game that was popular among the "mainstream" we would have already seen countless knock-offs by big-name developers.

 

TOR's innovation was that it is the first fully voiced MMO...a monumental task. Their primary focus was on this goal with the expectation that since this is an MMO, they would continue to build a better game as time went on post-launch. And why shouldn't they expect this? This was the same courtesy that gamers afforded other MMOs.

 

Unfortunately for BW, I guess times have changed in the last couple of years. Gamers have become more jaded and our attention spans have continued to shrink.

Edited February 15, 2012 by otakuon

[Blavatsky]

if someone released a game with the same basic model as original Everquest but enhanced with contemporary graphics , engine ,w/e.

 

Would it be considered new, innovative , daring , breath of fresh air etc.

 

I think so.

[otakuon]

if someone released a game with the same basic model as original Everquest but enhanced with contemporary graphics , engine ,w/e.

 

Would it be considered new, innovative , daring , breath of fresh air etc.

 

I think so.

 

The same could probably be asked of UO or an even older Lucasfilm game: Habitat.

[Blavatsky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2zm0gABZUg

 

[Halvos]

TOR's innovation was that it is the first fully voiced MMO...a monumental task. Their primary focus was on this goal with the expectation that since this is an MMO, they would continue to build a better game as time went on post-launch. And why shouldn't they expect this? This was the same courtesy that gamers afforded other MMOs.

 

Unfortunately for BW, I guess times have changed in the last couple of years. Gamers have become more jaded and our attention spans have continued to shrink.

 

Actually TOR isn't the first fully voiced MMO. I guess they kind of are because they released before The Secret World, but TSW was announced before TOR and is going to be fully voiced as well. So TOR really isn't that special in that sense.

 

The problem with TOR is that they focused so heavily on story that when you complete that part of it (get to 50), the game becomes stale. Say what you will about WoW, but Blizzard as a company understands the importance of gameplay. They master the thing the people spend most of their time doing. This isn't just shown in WoW either, look at the past Diablo, Starcraft, and Warcraft games. The replay value for those are all extremely high. For Diablo 3 they've said they want a game that's easy to play yet hard to master. They aren't the only company with that philosophy either. Look at Bungie with the first Halo. It's a game where you are basically just killing the same stuff over and over.

 

Gameplay is by far the most important part to a game. That "new" feeling certain features have eventually ends and you are left with the gameplay. Part of that gameplay, I feel, has to do with the world you're in. When that's pretty lifeless and stale, it kills the mood.

 

Companies really need to stop trying to be the next WoW by copying so much of it but rather make something that other companies want to copy. Something fresh, innovative, and done in a way that keeps people coming back after it stops being new.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Halvos

[otakuon]

Companies really need to stop trying to be the next WoW by copying so much of it but rather make something that other companies want to copy. Something fresh, innovative, and done in a way that keeps people coming back after it stops being new.

 

And with an MMO, the idea is to keep adding additional content and features over time so that there always is something new. It the players aren't happy with the game as it is now, the Devs will fix it and add content/features that the players want. This is the nature of an MMO.

Edited February 15, 2012 by otakuon