darkcerb Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Some may have forgotten your tirade against casuals emada, why don't you enlighten us again why you really don't want too successful a tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) so... you can't find a math mistake? Theres no mistake in the math your trying to use but what does it matter when your premise is false? There would still be a 20 minute average wait. The least popular class/role wouldn't wait at all and the most popular class/role might as well spam for a group. Edited February 14, 2012 by Vlaxitov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarh Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) People no longer cared about ninjaing, playing nice, playing well, or getting a bad reputation. The 'gloves came off' for every would-be MMO troll.lie raid is still there, still in server and still raid is what matter in PvE not 5ppl dungeon, no one care that you is best healer or best tank in eazy-mode dungeon… i can name some ppl who was blamed for ninjaing in raid on my server, and can't name anyone who was infamous from dungeon-party, i play that_game since 2.3.2 path, played without lfg and with lfg Edited February 14, 2012 by navarh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) so... you can't find a math mistake? You can make a subjective one. Or one based on opinion. I've yet to see an objective, fact based one though. You have seen them but you have ignored them The system I listed that you quoted this from gives more than the WoW style LFG sytstem and removes many of the problems that that system produces. The only thing that it doesnt do is make the group automaticaly, which will also prevent bots from autoaccepting and afking the entire run. This system will not prevent you getting those players in some cases but the leader can kick them without a kick timer since he formed the group. But because you lable me as a hater you will just pick certain things I say and comment on them and not actually read it all. I dont like the game but that doesnt mean I dont want it to get better. Edited February 14, 2012 by Emeda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Theres no mistake in the math your trying to use but what does it matter when your premise is false? There would still be a 20 minute average wait. The least popular role wouldn't wait at all and the most popular class might as well spam for a group. What does the insistence that people will still need to wait matter when they wont be waiting anywhere near as long and will be free to do as they please instead of spamming general and pestering people through who searches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretiq Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) It destroys the community. OP, you can scream into the wind as much as you like, but the fact remains that whatever little community WoW had was absolutely rent asunder by the x-server LFG tool. People no longer cared about ninjaing, playing nice, playing well, or getting a bad reputation. The 'gloves came off' for every would-be MMO troll. Yeah - right. Ever played on a PvP (or a bigger PvE) server in TBC/Classic? People were acting like freaking ANIMALS back then, too. It's the nature of the beast; the nature of the internet. The community was already broken before the LFG-tool was implemented. Because two days later noone is going to remember the name of the guy you ranted about in general chat. If they even pay attention in the first place ... That's community for you. People have always and will always get away with it. Maybe gaming or the internet just isn't for you if you have such a thin skin. Edited February 14, 2012 by Heretiq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Theres no mistake in the math your trying to use but what does it matter when your premise is false?Premise: Given the example throughput of single server queues for servers A, B and C (4, 3 and 2 per hour, respectively). How is that false? What exactly, is the mistake in that premise? There would still be a 20 minute average wait. No if there was a 20 minute average time to form groups, it would take 3 hours to form 9 groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) You have seen them but you have ignored themNo, I've debunked the ones that have been claimed (both the math, and the supposed objective reasons); even Vlaxitov admits that now. I've not ignored any of them that I'm aware of. Which ones do you think I've ignored? Edited February 14, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) My biggest issue with a FPfinder or Opsfinder tool is there's no accountability for a player's actions unless it's same-server. Delinquents can annonymously ninja, blatantly blast through mobs like they're OP soloing while getting their rocks off wiping everyone, or simply rage quit - and know they'll get away with it. Nothings flips a player's off switch like being caught in random drive-by spin cycles. Especially those new to the game. True this can happen with or without a FP/Opsfinder tool. But at least if perps are on the same server as the party they'll have to answer to the community. And community definitely exists in this game. I've seen it happen to a few divas already and watched them leave Nihilus because they essentially incarcerated themselves with a bad reputation. Our server is pretty tight in that respect, and that's a good thing imho. I think once the population imbalance issue is resolved a same-server FP/Opsfinder would be of great benefit for those not on a guild's A-team. Would also make for a killer recruiting tool. Then perhaps after that system is solidified maybe put one in for cross server so those who want to do it can. I just feel that X-server should not be the first - and definitely not the only - way random queueing happens. Edited February 14, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 No if there was a 20 minute average time to form groups, it would take 3 hours to form 9 groups. There you go making the same mistake again. Average wait time divided by 60 does NOT equal the number of groups formed in 1 hr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) There you go making the same mistake again. Average wait time divided by 60 does NOT equal the number of groups formed in 1 hr. time t divided by the number of groups formed in time t (which is a given, it's part of the premise) is the average amount of time for each group to form; Individual wait time is directly proportional to that... Edited February 14, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 No, I've debunked the ones that have been claimed (both the math, and the supposed objective reasons); even Vlaxitov admits that now. I've not ignored any of them that I'm aware of. Which ones do you think I've ignored? Page 46 second post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Page 46 second postwe're on page 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 we're on page 14. I see it as page 54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I see it as page 54and?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarnakrider Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Guys we need that tool. There wont be a lgRaid tool. And i dont have friends in here because of region block and if you want WoW players to play this game just give what players want. Dont be selfish im forever alone in here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Players quote "There are lots of reasons, but the underlying reason, the reason the other reasons exist, the bottom line is, To allow more people access to content. Content is not just the front door to the instance, it is the whole instance, right to the end. The last boss is just as much content as the first boss. If people cannot kill the first boss they cannot make it to the last. Therefore they miss out on content. " My response "The bottom line is that adding a LFG will allow you then to get the content nerfed so you now can do it in 15 mins without any effort put into it. As you just prove in your second paragraph. Content is not just the front door its clearing the content. You are already saying that even if you get a LFG so you can get a group for the instance you will not be happy unless you can complete the instance. How can you complete the instance? The two ways are try (which isnt an option for you) or cry until they nerf it so that you can with no effort. Again LFG is not so you can get a group, its so you can later get the content nerfed. " incase you cant find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarh Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Page 46 second posti'll answer that The bottom line is that adding a LFG will allow you then to get the content nerfed so you now can do it in 15 mins without any effort put into it. what? how can you nerf this? remove mobs completely or what? How can you complete the instance? easy, weare not you, we can deal with pugs Edited February 14, 2012 by navarh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Guys we need that tool. There wont be a lgRaid tool. And i dont have friends in here because of region block and if you want WoW players to play this game just give what players want. Dont be selfish im forever alone in here I listed a ststem that would give you everything you wanted while I believe will keep everything you dont wnat in it out. The only thing it doesnt do is cross server and autogroup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What does the insistence that people will still need to wait matter when they wont be waiting anywhere near as long and will be free to do as they please instead of spamming general and pestering people through who searches? Some wont be waiting as long, others will be waiting longer than if they had just made their own group. Some will never even use it because they don't need to. I would agree that STWOR needs to improve our ability to comminicate on server. The function is there for those who care to see it. Theres a user created LFG channel on the server I play and that works pretty well. These features just need to be dressed up and made more attractive to use. Something along the lines of a sesame street style click click interface for the options we already have. Theres nothing more satisfying in a mmo for me than steamrolling content that used to be hard because I've played with the same players before and know eachothers playstyles in which we cooperativly work around eachother with. Thats the key. Thats what makes a mmo worth playing. Without that my interest's lifespan on a game like this isn't any longer than a single player RPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarh Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The only thing it doesnt do make group fast but… that is what needed… and it can't do this?… that is what called garbage, trash, useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Players quote "There are lots of reasons, but the underlying reason, the reason the other reasons exist, the bottom line is, To allow more people access to content. Content is not just the front door to the instance, it is the whole instance, right to the end. The last boss is just as much content as the first boss. If people cannot kill the first boss they cannot make it to the last. Therefore they miss out on content. " I don't see an objective reason against the lfd tool in this. "The bottom line is that adding a LFG will allow you then to get the content nerfed so you now can do it in 15 mins without any effort put into it.This is speculation. It might get it nerfed. It might be nerfed for totally different reasons. It might not be nerfed. It's not an objective reason to not have an lfd tool. Again LFG is not so you can get a group, its so you can later get the content nerfed. " No, that's a false statment. I want lfg so that I can easily get groups, not so that the content will get nerfed. I'm fine with difficult content. Love it. incase you cant find itI said that I couldn't... since, you're referencing it by page number, which is configurable. Edited February 14, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarh Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Thats the key. Thats what makes a mmo worth playing. for you, nothing more, nothing less end of story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 what? how can you nerf this? As I have explained before but you want to ignore and keep acting like its not your intended thinking You get them to add LFG because you cant supposidly find a group on your own. Then once you get the system you complain about the system by saying that it doesnt work because you get 3 idiots in your group and you cant complete it (while the original excuse you used was to just find a group),You will complain that you are wasting all your time in fail LFG groups and that they need to make it easier so you can finsih the flashpoints and not waste all your time in failed group. You did it in the other game and you want to do it here also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) make group fast but… that is what needed… and it can't do this?… that is what called garbage, trash, useless It will allow you to make groups just as fast as the wow version of LFG, it will find people that fit your group (you can check all them if you wanted to) and all you have to do is invite them. So your right its not as fast, you have to invite 3 people (thats about 10 secs max) if your leader. Make some friends and then you can get groups even faster than a LFG if your so worried about time. Edited February 14, 2012 by Emeda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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