da_krall Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Deny it all you want, when almost half the player base is asking for sorc nerfs (and the other half is playing sorcs...), there got to be something wrong. Maybe everyone just suck? and the "pros" all rolled sorcs? Nope, theres just a lot of idiots in the world. I saw a green apple, therefore all apples are green Edited February 13, 2012 by da_krall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Deny it all you want, when almost half the player base is asking for sorc nerfs (and the other half is playing sorcs...), there got to be something wrong. Maybe everyone just suck? and the "pros" all rolled sorcs? Again, logical fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiters Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 As BH we can stun them in hopes that teammates can close in and have their way, but most of the time it's 1v1. The best thing is to get in melee range and do whatever you can to avoid them from sprinting and healing. Marauders/Mirror have better luck getting close and bursting dps, with their interrupt, they should be a formidable pairing against Sage/Sorc. Since the tweaks to the operatives the only Burst dps now is the Marauder/Mirror. Operatives can close in and just burst dps these guys or simply suppressing their ability to damage/heal. I don't really know if sorc/sage are OP, my understanding is that if they have these abilities other classes must find a better way to utilize their own abilities to contain such classes. I hate to see nerfs just because people express their frustration in these forums and devs see it and act without really thinking clearly about it. Players who have asked for a nerf tells those players to adopt to the change, but what about you adopting to the dynamics? We simply don't need anymore nerfs for the sake of PVP environment because this effects PVE. Now, if BW decide to look at balancing both environments then that would be okey IMO. But we realized that they generalize their nerfs that affect both pvp and pve. Which is a bad arrangement. +1, Finally someone who realizes nerfs dont effect one class they effect the entire game. If BW nerfs sorc/sages where are the nerf bats going next? maybe the 5-6k aoe thats is usable almost every 20 sec? still hits for 8k on undergeared/squishies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Think its worse when people starting using arguments based on the assumption you have abilities from every single talent tree high up, and still have a massive effectiveness. this would be true (even though it is not worse but still bad) if the effectiviness would be far better than of the other classes in end game pvp. but this is not the case! sorcs / sages arn't owning in endgame pvp! well, ofcourse they top the charts like every range dd does when they are left alone for most of the time, but this has nothing to do with the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicyFruits Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Again, logical fallacy. More denial to me. More "everyone else just suck, my class is fine, I'm just good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veillantif Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 In short, yes sorcs and sages are beatable. However, it shouldn't require multiple players timing their interrupts just right to bring down ONE opposing player of theoretically equal balance. The fact that they are the most mobile and have so many slows, stuns, and immobilizes at their disposal just makes them a little to good for pvp to be balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 More denial to me. More "everyone else just suck, my class is fine, I'm just good". again, fallacy.. I never said anything of the such.. Do you know what a logical fallacy even is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Deny it all you want, when almost half the player base is asking for sorc nerfs (and the other half is playing sorcs...), there got to be something wrong. Maybe everyone just suck? and the "pros" all rolled sorcs? 90% of Christians asked for gallileo to be killed for his blasphemy 2/3 of germans asked for killing various races and they all have been fooled by a few. the masses never were the intelligent part in any state. never argue with "but most say this". it can fool you badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 In short, yes sorcs and sages are beatable. However, it shouldn't require multiple players timing their interrupts just right to bring down ONE opposing player of theoretically equal balance. The fact that they are the most mobile and have so many slows, stuns, and immobilizes at their disposal just makes them a little to good for pvp to be balanced. Tip, it doesnt take more then one. Again, they have the least armor, no more utility ccs then all but the heaviest armored/dps class in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiters Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Deny it all you want, when almost half the player base is asking for sorc nerfs (and the other half is playing sorcs...), there got to be something wrong. Maybe everyone just suck? and the "pros" all rolled sorcs? When half the population starts out as sorcs, i think its reasonable to assume that they woud, IDK continue playing them rather than rolling a new toon? IDK maybe my logic doesnt make sense to you? Maybe you werent around at launc where you could type /who and see 50+% of pop as sorcs... IMO this is because it was the only class which appeared to be a caster class.... some people enjoy playing casters too and if its the only one in peoples minds idk they might play it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 In short, yes sorcs and sages are beatable. However, it shouldn't require multiple players timing their interrupts just right to bring down ONE opposing player of theoretically equal balance. The fact that they are the most mobile and have so many slows, stuns, and immobilizes at their disposal just makes them a little to good for pvp to be balanced. many? most classes have a slow, like sages have. many classes have a stunn. sages have around 60s cd on them (they are two, one is a 2s cast and is not a stunn but a maze and needs quite deep into one tree to get instant). most classes have an interrupt. sages have a sprint, others have a jump or a grap etc. please do yourself a favour and start counting exectly what utitlities each classes have and you will see that sage maybe have 1 or 2 more but also do less damage than all other and can't eat that much. what you claim is what it always seems to the loser that does not know what was hitting him. learn your enemy, learn your class and the world will look totally different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicyFruits Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 again, fallacy.. I never said anything of the such.. Do you know what a logical fallacy even is? Its easy to defend your class when all you have to say is "fallacy, fallacy". There is no way to "logically" prove that a class is OP or not. So yes, fallacy. You have to understand that balance is, most of the time, subjective. Only BW have the tools, the data, the systems to really watch and determine OBJECTIVELY what is balanced and what isnt. Players will always only have a subjective view of things. However, the subjective feeling that a lot of players have is often right. From experience, its almost always right. When 50% of the player base notice something is wrong, it is often the case. Fallacy yes, but that's still how it works. Its still the best we can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoMontana Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 and you have no way to get close to him? no? sad but true: l2p! Not while being snared, stunned, and knocked back while taking damage and being dotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltankhsd Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Agree with OP. As a Shield Tech Powertech between my jet charge, melee range interrupt, grapple and 2 stuns allow me to have 5 different interrupts at my call and when fighting sorcs I make sure I save them for the most opportune times, ESPECIALLY when they try to cast heal spells. As such I have no problems with sages/sorcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 However, the subjective feeling that a lot of players have is often right. From experience, its almost always right. When 50% of the player base notice something is wrong, it is often the case. Fallacy yes, but that's still how it works. Its still the best we can do. no. the subjective feeling that a lot of palyers usually have, especially considering that most of the not even reached endgame, not even played more than one class is MOSTLY WRONG!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzarel Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 In short, yes sorcs and sages are beatable. However, it shouldn't require multiple players timing their interrupts just right to bring down ONE opposing player of theoretically equal balance. The fact that they are the most mobile and have so many slows, stuns, and immobilizes at their disposal just makes them a little to good for pvp to be balanced. Again which stuns i like to know where you get these stuns, i know i only have whirling wind with cast, time which is broken on damage, and electrocute for 4sec stun which practically hand players a full resolve bar, which i rarely see anyone use for same reason. Less ofcause you referring to pumping in 17points into lighning for backlash and electric-bindings but then you will be sacrificing a good bit of other things especially if you want the slows ontop you talking about which either force-slow on 12sec cooldown for a 6sec slow, or 11points into madness for madness so now we up on 28points spend you got 13left to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Agree with OP. As a Shield Tech Powertech between my jet charge, melee range interrupt, grapple and 2 stuns allow me to have 5 different interrupts at my call and when fighting sorcs I make sure I save them for the most opportune times, ESPECIALLY when they try to cast heal spells. As such I have no problems with sages/sorcs. did you read what i wrote? no i assume. for damage we spam all the time ONE SPELL! waiting for a proc to add in an instant. you just need to use ONE INTERRUPT and we cannot use our main spell and do not get our proc for a hard hitter. sure we have still a low hitter instant and our utilities. if we don't we would be wast on the battlefield, didn't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicyFruits Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 no. the subjective feeling that a lot of palyers usually have, especially considering that most of the not even reached endgame, not even played more than one class is MOSTLY WRONG!!! we will have to disagree on that. From experience, when the player base notice something, sooner of later the nerfs will follow, and the balance is restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Its easy to defend your class when all you have to say is "fallacy, fallacy". There is no way to "logically" prove that a class is OP or not. So yes, fallacy. You have to understand that balance is, most of the time, subjective. Only BW have the tools, the data, the systems to really watch and determine OBJECTIVELY what is balanced and what isnt. Players will always only have a subjective view of things. However, the subjective feeling that a lot of players have is often right. From experience, its almost always right. When 50% of the player base notice something is wrong, it is often the case. Fallacy yes, but that's still how it works. Its still the best we can do. So somehow the few QQers here represent 50% of the player base...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 we will have to disagree on that. From experience, when the player base notice something, sooner of later the nerfs will follow, and the balance is restored. no, i agree with you if the game would be out long enough to have a player base that palyed a while in edngame pvp and have experience with more than one class. but this is NOT YET THE CASE!!! goddamit, don't be so stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicyFruits Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So somehow the few QQers here represent 50% of the player base...... "few" QQers? theres a thread with 11 pages somewhere! No other class bring this amount of QQ. Open your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 "few" QQers? theres a thread with 11 pages somewhere! No other class bring this amount of QQ. Open your eyes. And most of that page has 5-10 posters repeating the stuff.. Pages != % of populations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Less ofcause you referring to pumping in 17points into lighning for backlash and i might add here that this is a bad choice for pvp. this one is a decent resolve bar filler. you don't want to fill your opponents resolve bar when not needed and then not being able to stunn him/knock him back when you need it. it is one of the worst pvp skills - a tip: don't skill this for pvp if you want to survive encounters when alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoMontana Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Sorc / Sage are over powered and are the reason this will be my last month playing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 "few" QQers? theres a thread with 11 pages somewhere! No other class bring this amount of QQ. Open your eyes. well, i could argue that most times the no-skilled players are on the forums crying in hope to get help by the nerf bat while the skilled ones are playing the game. but this would put me currently into a bad light p.s. my chef will kill me tomorrow. i was so productive at work today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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