How to beat a Sorcerer/sage or why they arn't overpowered ;)

[PriestDK]

Actually im a lvl 50 Gunslinger and also have a sentinel

[Lormif]

Care to back that up with numbers?

 

Also which logical fallacy did I make?

 

With 3 seconds of prep I will have a whole 1200 point burst if you count dots.

 

Wait, and I forgot to mention that one of them is a full talent tree, not a hybrid, wit a hybrid you wont even reach that with 3 seconds prep time hehe.

[me_unknown]

Yup you see alot of bad commandos not interrupting sorcs, it has nothing to do with sorcs having better at all the same things.

 

do you mean me? if so i didn't claimed that. would you please read and comprehend what is written rather than shooting your frustration on me?

 

if the commando fails here so badly than it is a problem of the commando class and not the sorcerers/sage being overpowered!

 

if the sorcerer/sage class is overpowered it would be like this against nearly ALL classes, which is by far not the case! better call for a buff for the commando instead of calling for destroying others classes.

[Ich_Bin]

you don't die because the sorcerers are overpowered you die because your team is playing stupid. what stops your team from hunting and interrupting the sorcerers?

 

Errrm... MAYBE the melee players that are standing IN FRONT of the sorcerers?

Have fun running through those (you would have to do that to get close enough to use your interrupt anyways)! Then it's slow/cc time and you can hit "respawn".

Edited February 13, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Poizun]

Anyone playing a sorc/sage at max level that that doesn't see that they're broken is doing it wrong. Most of the warzones I have been getting into lately have over %50 sorc/sages. I'm not even sure how much damage my skills do anymore. All I see is absorb absorb absorb... Bioware needs to do something and fast

[me_unknown]

Errrm... MAYBE the melee players that are standing IN FRONT of the sorcerers?

Have fun running throught those!

 

hmm, if so who then is chasing your sorcerers, ball carriers etc?

 

actually i never saw melee palyers standing in front of sages/sorcerers. it would be waste of them anyway.

[Tumri]

Sorcerers in general are not overpowered. Certain talents break the class by pushing them too far over the top. I explain this in detail in the thread linked in my signature.

[Barzarel]

It should be logical. If not point me to another class that has all the following mechanics:

 

- Healing (with 1.5sec cast on a low amount with high force consumption & a 2.5-3.0 with pushbacks from damage for a moderate amount without crit with hybrid spec)

 

- "Speed" Healing (is specced about 13 points into corruption, that speed heal 1.5 for a moderate amount, until you have resurgence of cooldown, making cast total around 2sec with gcd)

 

- High Damage (When you proc wrath or for chain lighting proc and spent at least 16points approx into talent tree).

 

- DoTs (afflication with low damage without spec into death mark high up into madness, and crushing darkness with cast time less "having wrath proc again 16points into madness, with a cooldown)

 

- Bubble (which dies from 2gcd hits and have 20sec before being possible to reapply).

 

- Knockback (aoe knockback with cooldown in area of 12sec apprx.)

 

- Slow (force slow with cooldown, or force lightning with cooldown less 11point spent into madness)

 

- Root (you mean when you spend 12points into lightning for Electric binding?)

 

- Stun (for 4sec which gives a full resolve bar, and also have 1min cooldown less specced lower for 40sec?)

 

- Sprint (on about a 20sec cooldown for 3secs effect)

 

- Breakable CC / CC Locks (the class one for with 2min CD with specced into breaker, or you mean purge which we can't use on ourselves when stunned? or we talking whirlwind, which break on damage with a 1-2min cooldown, that nobody really bother speccing into?)

 

- Slow effect on basic attack (after paying 11points into madness, you mean like tracer missile which ignore all but hard migitation and element, which spammable armor debuffs with no cooldowns?, or juggynauts Chilling scream being spammable, with no CD or cost if specced into it, okay ill give that we do have one "which is interuptable", juggy's is not)

 

Yup. Totally underpowered class

 

FIXED Here your spec please follow Link

 

So we can pretty much hybrid into every spec and have all the above mentioned abilities, and still pull out goodly damage, i am curious which specs you running?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Barzarel

[Elboc]

so what is the most important utility other classes can use against a sage/sorc?[/b]

 

it is interrupt!

 

i'm not 100% sure as i didn't looked into the description of all classes but i think all have an instant interrupt ability (correct me if i am wrong).

 

Merc's dont get an interrupt. Guess I will leave your thread now

[quiters]

Can you please start using objectivity. You loose all your credibility when your counterargument always contain some form of sentence telling me that I do not know how to play my class or that I sux or that I dont have enough knoledge in this game.

Can we please stop this now? Objectivity is the keyword for any kind of analysis if you want it to be taken seriously.

 

GLHF in the real world if your counterargument is always going to be "if you dont understand my point of view, then you are just bad at what you are doing".

 

Now finally to the point:

 

The problem with the sage/sorc is that it has too much stuff compared to other classes. The core of the class itself is much stronger than any other class in game. If you compare the consular to the smuggler most people will laugh at the smuggler.

 

Simply remove some of all the utility or give other classes more utility should balance it out.

Also adding root effects to the resolve problem and remove the ability to gain 100% Snare effects should also balance out the problem.

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_%28science%29

 

Did you ever fight a warlock in pvp? 10x the cc that sorcs have and major burst dps on top of that. Granted this is a different game but if you cant use resolve which procs after 2 sometimes 3 ccs properly, well im sorry but you need to learn to use it, if its broken for you... (the excuse which many seem to cling to in the hopes that it makes them look somehow "bettter" or at the very least less inept), then that sucks, sorry to hear it. You claim that sorcs have more utility then other classes more moves. this is true most of which are on long cds and can only be used in certain situations. While this is certainly OP its not near as OP against various classes, maybe your class got the crap end of the stick should this mean that sorcs/sages be nerfed, so they can then become fodder for other classes?

 

I believe your argument is that utility is the key to a sorcs adv. we will go off that. Do you expect BW to take away these abilites? Seriously what kinda of nerf are you wanting? Class mechanic changes? Damage nerfs? an improved resolve?

 

I think scoundrel smuggler has been mentioned so Ill use that as an example. BW recently did a "nerf" on the class after MUCH qq saying that ops/scoundrels were OPOP OPOP OPOP.... its almost laughable the "nerf" that came out of that. The opening cc now allows you to get 2 free moves, the stealth opener and 1 other of your choosing off before they can even respond and dont say they can trink out because it would be stupid to trink out of a 1.5 sec cc and waste resolve on top of that. Your AP has been taken from 50% to 30% so that means a sorc/sage will now mitigate 12% of your damage as opposed to 10% before =/ YAY for nerfs! And the last nerf to this particular spec was a lower burst damage from hidden stirke. Which can still hit for 4-5k on squishys (at least I'm hoping its only the opening stealth move that can hit that hard gg if its something else) 25% hp is a pretty hefty chunk.

 

If this is the kinda of nerf you want us to take I for one will take it gladly to get rid of the QQ.

 

Nerf our 5k damage move.... wait we dont have one.

 

Nerf all of our armor penetration..... wait we dont have ANY

 

Cut whatever CC you want nerfed in half.... Im fine with this....

 

And my point is.... you can't compare classes in Warzones. the different levels of gear/skill are too numerous... not to mention circumstances terrain and sheer luck.

 

Please BW wait for rankings and ratings before swinging the nerf bat because someone decides to rant and rave.

 

QQ is the RPG killer of mmorpg's.

 

Let's have everyone run around with the same abilities and no1 be any different. Let's use the same tactics EVERY TIME and NEVER EVER be asked to change said tactics when we come upon different classes. I guarantee you I have run into EVERY class which in some way or another was OP, and I have played almost every class to 30+, sorcs weakness is also their strength, keeping the enemy away, failing to do this and its gg sorc, (assuming of course gear/skill of the players is equal or close).

[Ich_Bin]

hmm, if so who then is chasing your sorcerers, ball carriers etc?

 

actually i never saw melee palyers standing in front of sages/sorcerers. it would be waste of them anyway.

 

So I take it you have never played Alderaan, Voidstar or Ilum then?

If a pvp team is NOT protecting their sorcs/sages they are doing it VERY wrong.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Zutha]

I got a max lvl merc and 45 sin.

 

I pick on sorc's all the time because their a nightmare if left alone. I also find them harder to kill than a fully spec'd Tank.

 

No class should of the amount of utlity the sorc has.

 

Stuns, knocks, silence, sprint, Bubble, DPS, Burst, Dot's.

 

I created sage and got it to lvl 14. Jumped into pvp for 5 games.

 

Top of the board in dmg, healing, objective, kills and 1 death in ALL games against players ranging from 10-49.

 

After playing all advance classes now to lvl 20 and i honestly say, sroc/sage is OP.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Zutha

[da_krall]

true. but the commandos i faced are outdamaging me with easy in 1on1. i need my stunns to stop that or i'm pretty fast dead.

 

+1 on this i even have a story of when my sorc came up against a well geared commando that highlights this but these forums are full of scum that would just L2P it because the herd having finshed with the Operative is now gunning for Sorc.

[quiters]

I got a max lvl merc and 45 sin.

 

I pick on sorc's all the time because their a nightmare if left alone. I also find them harder to kill than a fully spec'd Tank.

 

No class should of the amount of utlity the sorc has.

 

Stuns, knocks, silence, sprint, Bubble, DPS, Burst, Dot's.

 

I created sage and got it to lvl 14. Jumped into pvp for 5 games.

 

Top of the board in dmg, healing, objective, kills and 1 death in ALL games against players ranging from 10-49.

 

After playing all advance classes now to lvl 20 and i honestly say, sroc/sage is OP.

 

Im sorry but this is fail... you dont nerf a class based on level 20... or 45 gameplay, you nerf it based on level 50 top end gear gameplay... other wise why even hit 50? so you can suck?

[quiters]

+1 on this i even have a story of when my sorc came up against a well geared commando that highlights this but these forums are full of scum that would just L2P it because the herd having finshed with the Operative is now gunning for Sorc.

 

I would loved to equalize utility if it meant as much solo target damage as otehr classes... not to mention armor buffs....

[JuicyFruits]

Im sorry but this is fail... you dont nerf a class based on level 20... or 45 gameplay, you nerf it based on level 50 top end gear gameplay... other wise why even hit 50? so you can suck?

 

Lol, so he should level his sorc to 50, just to prove what everyone ALREADY knows?

 

Give me a break.

 

Pretty much every warzone I play, there are at least 3 sorcs on my team, and same on the other team. there are 8 classes, but sorcs represent about 40% of every warzone (based on personal observation).

 

FOTM much.

[me_unknown]

I got a max lvl merc and 45 sin.

 

I pick on sorc's all the time because their a nightmare if left alone. I also find them harder to kill than a fully spec'd Tank.

 

No class should of the amount of utlity the sorc has.

 

Stuns, knocks, silence, sprint, Bubble, DPS, Burst, Dot's.

sorc/sage has no burst. and a page back we counted the utilities. most/many classes (though not all) have about the same number, many of them even on shorter cd.

 

I created sage and got it to lvl 14. Jumped into pvp for 5 games.

Top of the board in dmg, healing, objective, kills and 1 death in ALL games against players ranging from 10-49.

it is very easy to top the total damage as with aoe spells and dotting around. what exactly has this to do with sorcerer/sage being too strong? does it matter? do they get more medals for 200k dmg than for 75dmg?

 

congratulation for you that you are one of a few using your healing abilities as a damage dealer. i whish more would do that as it helps enormous in team pvp.

 

After playing all advance classes now to lvl 20 and i honestly say, sroc/sage is OP.

 

played to level 20 and you decide sage is op?

and you really want to be heared?

 

p.s. just for information: the time other classes get their utilities is not the same time at which sorcerers get it. also with higher levels and better equip the difference in singel target damage output of sages vs all grows stronger!

Edited February 13, 2012 by me_unknown

[quiters]

Lol, so he should level his sorc to 50, just to prove what everyone ALREADY knows?

 

Give me a break.

 

Pretty much every warzone I play, there are at least 3 sorcs on my team, and same on the other team. there are 8 classes, but sorcs represent about 40% of every warzone (based on personal observation).

 

FOTM much.

 

No im saying that BW should look at top game play not people who think they know and choose to post on forums... if BW comes to the conclusion that top geared sorcs/sages are OP then start the nerf bat... not based on 45 gameplay.... give me a break.

[Lormif]

Lol, so he should level his sorc to 50, just to prove what everyone ALREADY knows?

 

Give me a break.

 

Pretty much every warzone I play, there are at least 3 sorcs on my team, and same on the other team. there are 8 classes, but sorcs represent about 40% of every warzone (based on personal observation).

 

FOTM much.

 

you also dont nerf based on FOTM, especially when there were more sorcs/sages from release anyways.

[Strayjack]

As BH we can stun them in hopes that teammates can close in and have their way, but most of the time it's 1v1. The best thing is to get in melee range and do whatever you can to avoid them from sprinting and healing. Marauders/Mirror have better luck getting close and bursting dps, with their interrupt, they should be a formidable pairing against Sage/Sorc.

 

Since the tweaks to the operatives the only Burst dps now is the Marauder/Mirror. Operatives can close in and just burst dps these guys or simply suppressing their ability to damage/heal.

 

I don't really know if sorc/sage are OP, my understanding is that if they have these abilities other classes must find a better way to utilize their own abilities to contain such classes. I hate to see nerfs just because people express their frustration in these forums and devs see it and act without really thinking clearly about it. Players who have asked for a nerf tells those players to adopt to the change, but what about you adopting to the dynamics?

 

We simply don't need anymore nerfs for the sake of PVP environment because this effects PVE. Now, if BW decide to look at balancing both environments then that would be okey IMO. But we realized that they generalize their nerfs that affect both pvp and pve. Which is a bad arrangement.

[me_unknown]

Lol, so he should level his sorc to 50, just to prove what everyone ALREADY knows?

 

Give me a break.

 

Pretty much every warzone I play, there are at least 3 sorcs on my team, and same on the other team. there are 8 classes, but sorcs represent about 40% of every warzone (based on personal observation).

 

FOTM much.

 

obvioulsy by far not everyone "knows" this. and it seems the only people claiming sages being overpowered never got to end game pvp! all the screamers seem to base their experience on lvl 20 or similar.

 

note: on early levels all clases nearly do about the same damage. it starts to differ until level 50 and then with better equip!

also during leveling each class gets their utilities NOT AT THE SAME TIME (LEVEL). so only an IDIOT would judge level 50 pvp by his epxirience of level 20 classes.

 

so really, put your "lol" somewhere where the sun never shines! what a shame

[JuicyFruits]

you also dont nerf based on FOTM, especially when there were more sorcs/sages from release anyways.

 

If they dont do something quick, this will turn into a 2nd warhammer bright wizard fiasco.

 

But hey, its the same balance team apparently? This doesnt surprise me at all.

[JuicyFruits]

obvioulsy by far not everyone "knows" this. and it seems the only people claiming sages being overpowered never got to end game pvp! all the screamers seem to base their experience on lvl 20 or similar.

 

note: on early levels all clases nearly do about the same damage. it starts to differ until level 50 and then with better equip!

also during leveling each class gets their utilities NOT AT THE SAME TIME (LEVEL). so only an IDIOT would judge level 50 pvp by his epxirience of level 20 classes.

 

so really, put your "lol" somewhere where the sun never shines! what a shame

 

Deny it all you want, when almost half the player base is asking for sorc nerfs (and the other half is playing sorcs...), there got to be something wrong.

 

Maybe everyone just suck? and the "pros" all rolled sorcs?

[Barzarel]

obvioulsy by far not everyone "knows" this. and it seems the only people claiming sages being overpowered never got to end game pvp! all the screamers seem to base their experience on lvl 20 or similar.

 

note: on early levels all clases nearly do about the same damage. it starts to differ until level 50 and then with better equip!

also during leveling each class gets their utilities NOT AT THE SAME TIME (LEVEL). so only an IDIOT would judge level 50 pvp by his epxirience of level 20 classes.

 

so really, put your "lol" somewhere where the sun never shines! what a shame

 

Think its worse when people starting using arguments based on the assumption you have abilities from every single talent tree high up, and still have a massive effectiveness.

 

Deny it all you want, when almost half the player base is asking for sorc nerfs (and the other half is playing sorcs...), there got to be something wrong.

 

Maybe everyone just suck? and the "pros" all rolled sorcs?

Like a large group of whiners asked for aoe nerf and nerfs to chaos rift, on warhammer online magus, and how did that turn out, population was reduce for about 5% magus left, and class completely broken.

 

Yes, the mass is always correct.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Barzarel

[me_unknown]

@Strayjack : there is something i msut contradict you:

there is absolutely no need to consider pve when balancing classes. you should only or mostly only consider pvp.

 

why? because for pve you can adopt the enviroment. you can make the pve encounters to make every class needed usefull etc. you can intrudice stuff that affects only pve.

 

it is easy to balance pve. you do not need to care about pve when balancing classes because you can rebalnce everything on another point.

 

though this does not work viceversa!