People leaving wz is now out of control.

[SithtobeJedi]

and by March none of this will be an issue lol

[DAntiVirus]

No, because we play for the fun of it. We don't care about losing, that's why we don't quit. Only quitters are so self-centered that they don't get this concept, so I understand your lack of understanding it.

 

It's really fun to win, but it doesn't suck so bad that our lives are ruined if we lose. Quitters just make losing that much more less fun.

 

I understand your logic and I also understand the quitters logic. It all comes down to gear, those with BM stuff already have the best gear and can dish out/take far far more damage than some just still trying to get good gear. So imagine their frustration as they enter a WZ to try and complete some dailies only to get torn apart like tissue paper. You don't a daily completion with a loss, it requires wins. So they get frustrated and leave hoping they will stand a better chance in another WZ.

 

Let's face it, non PvP daily gear is far under par compared to PvP gear. A seriously sad but true fact. So people are forced to do PvP just to try and get the PvP gear. Doing Hard FP with daily non PvP comm gear is not fun. Can it be done, sure. Yet if that same person has BM gear, that Hard FP has just become far easier to do. Those Ops also become easier.

 

So in the end, gear is everything. Now if BW would change those daily PvP and Weekly PvP requirements from Wins to matches played...there would prolly be far less wz quitters.

[AetherMcLoud]

and by March none of this will be an issue lol

 

Like it or not, there were a lot of people for whom Guild Wars never "clicked", me included although I really tried to like it. All those people won't like GW2 either I guess.

[skyflash]

and by March none of this will be an issue lol

 

If they do not fix this by March, you are right.

[SirRobin]

I can honestly say that this has never, ever, ever happened to me.

 

Well I'm on Corsair and this happens two or more times a night when I actually try to do the win three warzones daily. I don't need to put up a live feed to prove what many already know. Its not a heavily imbalanced server. Its the simple reality of the fact that a number have been at fifty for weeks and already have around six hundred Expertise.

 

So what is your Expertise by the by?

 

When you only have two tiers with no significant matchmaking system, its inevitable that you will get rofl-stomped and spawn camped from time to time. I've witnessed it from both ends and don't find either enjoyable. The fun is in the middle when a match could go either way or you can at least spend as much time fighting as it takes you to get to the fight.

 

Your logic is flawed again.

 

The logic isn't flawed. You are simply unwilling to accept it. Reality doesn't care if you can accept it or not. Its still reality. Another game has been around for, what, seven plus years? Its had instanced pvp matches for six-ish of them. Last I had heard people still AFK and bail out of lopsided matches in it.

 

You are not going to prevent players from leaving lopsided matches. The best we can do is help minimize their desire too. First, cross-server queues of course to increase the pool of potential players that could be slotted into a particular match. Second, a matchmaking system that looks at things like level rank and expertise, the pvp stat, and tries to slot players with similar level rank and expertise into the same matches.

 

If you want to toss some sort of ban from matches on top of that? Fine. However, considering that I still fall through the map every now and then, get audio loop lockups, CTD, as well as joys like the nodespeccache error may keep me from smoothly getting back in-game? Well, might want to make it pretty picky about what causes that ban.

 

If you were in a full group (all 8 people) of guildmates in a warzone together, and the opposing team scores first, would you quit on your team, just like you do in a PUG warzone?

 

The question is not accurate since its not who scores first that makes me decide to leave a warzone. Did the opfor have all three turrets within the first couple of minutes and are already camping your platform? Did the opfor make it to the datacore in only a couple of minutes? Did the opfor score in less than a minute while you, and most of your team, was waiting for the shield to drop so you could get back on the court again? Then... Easy answer. Yes, I would still leave and would probably not be the only one.

 

Why waste my time in a warzone I'm not going to get squat from when I could be spending that time doing a daily on Ilum or Belsavis? My game time is limited and I'm not going to waste it being someone's valor farm. Especially in a pay-to-play game. I'm going to progress in my dailies. If BioWare is unable, or unwilling, to provide a suitably tasty carrot with that stick then the last thing I am going to do is adopt a, "Thank you sir may I have another," attitude.

Edited February 14, 2012 by SirRobin

[Caeliux]

Placing a lockout timer or afk penalty into the game will not solve either problems because a. people disconnect from the game, b. real life sometimes takes priority, and c. because not everyone has an awesome premade going.

 

Well since you think things won't work the way you see it, I will enlighten you on what needs to happen.

 

A. You click on leave warzone, it should say "If you leave you will be stacked with a 10 minute buff, if you choose to continue leaving another 10 minutes will be stacked" "In a 24 hour period each leave will stack until 24 hours is up."

 

B. You disconnect, or you decide to unplug your computer to loop hole the system then it will be the same thing. Cause god knows people would do that if a deserter buff does come, just to see if they can get away leaving. Ok so you disconnect and a warzone is in session, and you log back in, then you go straight to the warzone.

 

If you come back 10 minutes later and the warzone is over then you got a deserter buff.

 

Simple.

 

C. No other excuses. Bioware should not cater to poor losers and QQ. Things need to get in order for ranked matches and whatever else is coming, a deserter buff would need to be implemented.

 

Now people may say, "This is not fair, I have a opinion and I need to be heard"

 

Well I am here to tell you and everyone that thinks leaving a Warzone should continue..

 

No.

 

Stop being selfish.

 

People leaving makes a game for others horrific, no punishment for it, alot of games are lost due to lack of numbers, QQ should not be rewarded, Q'ing into a game already in session is stupid, and list goes on.

 

I don't care if you have to face a well oiled pre made, I don't care if a baby is crying, I don't care if the phone is ringing, I don't care if a car is on fire, I don't care if people are hacking, I don't care about excuses.

 

Either you play the warzone you signed up for, stay through the whole match, or get a deserter buff.

 

I say 10 minutes, if you leave after that buff next time 20 minutes. In a 24 hour period the game will monitor the leaving.

 

Rules need to be enforced.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Caeliux

[SirRobin]

Again... If my game time is limited, I pay to play, and the match is overwhelmingly lopsided because of the absence of any significant matchmaking system? Then I see no problem with leaving a warzone. Its not like this is Open-PvP after all. If the game is still buggy and glitchy enough that people still CTD, lockup, and nodespeccache? Then be ready to piss off even more people if your ban system is too arbitrary. Don't forget that those leaving these warzones are paying customers too. Edited February 14, 2012 by SirRobin

[TheRFC]

If you search for the thread 'Reward to PLAY, not to STAY' I've detailed some suggestions in there of how this problem AND the issue of AFKers can be completely negated.

 

Thanks,

 

[SirRobin]

Another thing to note, by the by. If more are leaving warzones than staying... Doesn't that mean that more of BioWare's "paying" customers want to be able to leave a warzone than those who want them to stay? So wouldn't BioWare actually be upsetting more "paying" customers by implementing a ban system than by not implementing one?

[Jesmcalli]

Huttball is a god awful, abortion of a WZ. I hate it, I leave it every time it pops. If I am given a 15-30 minute debuff for not wanting to play something I see as no fun, then I'll stay and AFK. Forcing people to either play a WZ they don't like, or to carry people that want to act like idiots and not go for objectives isn't the answer. Also, premades. I solo queue, if I run into a well known premade, I'll leave. I'm not facilitating their lame valor farm.

[Nangasaur]

Well I'm on Corsair and this happens two or more times a night when I actually try to do the win three warzones daily. I don't need to put up a live feed to prove what many already know. Its not a heavily imbalanced server. Its the simple reality of the fact that a number have been at fifty for weeks and already have around six hundred Expertise.

 

So what is your Expertise by the by?

Valor rank 54. Expertise 601. Missing one piece of Champion gear - my belt. 11.51% damage reduction. 11.51% damage boost. 20500 hit points self-buffed. 6666 armor rating. 40% shield chance. 44% shield absorption.

 

The logic isn't flawed. You are simply unwilling to accept it.

There's not a single new idea or concept or scenario that any of you quitters are presenting that hasn't already presented itself in prior MMOs with PVP problems, including problems of quitters. That problem has always been solved by punishing the quitters. Every. Single. Game. Queue-based warzones that suffered from quitter-itis were quickly cured by punishing quitters. It's a tried, tested, and working fix. Every. Single. Game. Period.

 

There's nothing for me to be unwilling to accept.

 

Reality doesn't care if you can accept it or not. Its still reality. Another game has been around for, what, seven plus years? Its had instanced pvp matches for six-ish of them. Last I had heard people still AFK and bail out of lopsided matches in it.

Not nearly as bad as before the pandemic of quitters began. It grew and grew until it was so widely out of control, something had to be done. I was there, I witnessed it. And as soon as the punishment went in, it was a night and day difference. Of course there will always be quitters. Quitters gonna quit, just like haters gonna hate. But once that reward for quitting goes away, the number voluntary quitters drops dramatically. It will never go away entirely, but the dramatic improvement was well received and a much-needed improvement.

 

You are not going to prevent players from leaving lopsided matches. The best we can do is help minimize their desire too.

Yep.

 

First, cross-server queues of course to increase the pool of potential players that could be slotted into a particular match.

Doesn't fix quitters when the reward for quitting still exists. The reward for quitting MUST be dealt with harshly, and removed entirely.

 

Second, a matchmaking system that looks at things like level rank and expertise, the pvp stat, and tries to slot players with similar level rank and expertise into the same matches.

Oh please, you really think that quitters who don't like a challenge such as attempting to make a comeback in a match that is already down by 1 point, won't just want to quit when they see that they are matched up against a better geared, better played, and much more experienced team? Boy are you wrong. Or incredibly naive. Or both. Either way, a matchmaking system has been tried before as a first-ditch effort. It made quitting worse, not better.

 

Again, the reward for quitting MUST be dealt with harshly, and removed entirely, before any symptom of the problem can be corrected.

 

If you want to toss some sort of ban from matches on top of that? Fine. However, considering that I still fall through the map every now and then, get audio loop lockups, CTD, as well as joys like the nodespeccache error may keep me from smoothly getting back in-game? Well, might want to make it pretty picky about what causes that ban.

I experience perhaps 1 problem such as these listed above in about every 20 matches. That's pretty good, considering the game has been out for less than 2 months, has far worse bugs to deal with, a terribly unoptimized client, and various other problems. Bioware will deal with those problems as quickly as they can. But refusing to correct your own personal anti-social problems while using Bioware's programming problems as an excuse is just nonsense. The quitter problem is player-created. It's sad that players have no tools to police this type of behavior, and unfortunate that Bioware will have to step in and police it for us or give us the tools to do it ourselves. But mark my words, one of the two will happen. Deserter debuffs, or warzone votekick rules; perhaps both, as both have proven very successful in fixing these player (un)policed problems in prior MMOs.

 

The question is not accurate

It was extremely accurate, very simplified, and not hard to answer. You don't have to explain to me or try and rationalize your selfish behavior. We've all heard the same tired excuses in 40+ pages of this thread, in-game general chat, and ops chat from warzones. They're all just selfish excuses, bottom line.

 

I made the question simple for a reason: so you could answer it simply, rather than try and make excuses for your behavior. The gigantic majority of quitters quit as soon as what I described happens. And when that first quitter quits, the revolving door of quitters starts rolling in, further exacerbating the problem into what you were describing in your excuses.

 

The gigantic majority of quitters QUIT when the attackers plant the first door bomb in the first minute or two. They don't stop and realize that 9 times of out 10, this really is because 1 stealth assassin snuck over to an accidentally undefended door and got a lucky plant. You know what I see typically happens in most of those occasions? That assassin gets wtfbbqgang-powed, and we disarm it. Most other times they don't make it past the second door, because we've wisened up to keep a better eye out for sneaky pete. And of course, sometimes we lose them. But that's not the point. The point is, the quitters don't even bother to try when this happens, they just give up in defeat because they really don't care about playing a game for the entertainment value, challenge, or fun. They only care about getting their next piece of gear to make it even easier to roflstomp PUGs themselves.

 

You can use that above example and compare it similarly to Huttball, or Civil War. The vast majority of quitters we see - who then initiate the start sequence on the "Quitter Revolving Door" - leave immediately after the first point is scored, the first bomb is planted, or the first turret is locked by the opposing team. The vast majority. The minority of quitters will hang out a bit longer until they're comfortable with their own lack of self esteem in believing their skill is good enough to help overcome and win the match, but won't because, "they can't be bothered to help PUGs." You may fall in this minority, but I highly doubt it, since you just made an incredible amount of unnecessary excuses that we've all heard many times before: the same excuses used by any griefer in any PVP MMO.

 

Why waste my time in a warzone I'm not going to get squat from

Why waste your time in warzone at all then, for that matter? If you're not getting any entertainment value out of it, then what ARE you getting, really? Different colored pixels? Is that the only thing that makes a game fun, entertaining, or challenging? Or just the thought of roflstomping, so long as it's YOU that's doing the roflstomping?

 

edit: I am proud of you, however, for actually answering the perfectly simple, easy, and honest question posed to quitters - even though you tried to way over complicate an extremely simple question.

 

As I expected, not a single other quitter even bothered.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Nangasaur

[TheRFC]

Another thing to note, by the by. If more are leaving warzones than staying... Doesn't that mean that more of BioWare's "paying" customers want to be able to leave a warzone than those who want them to stay? So wouldn't BioWare actually be upsetting more "paying" customers by implementing a ban system than by not implementing one?

 

 

This.

 

There are FAR better ways of avoiding quitting and AFKing entirely.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=299102&page=2

[TheRFC]

There's not a single new idea or concept or scenario that any of you quitters are presenting that hasn't already presented itself in prior MMOs with PVP problems, including problems of quitters. That problem has always been solved by punishing the quitters. Every. Single. Game. Queue-based warzones that suffered from quitter-itis were quickly cured by punishing quitters. It's a tried, tested, and working fix. Every. Single. Game. Period.

 

I've got a better solution, check out my thread on it.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=299102&page=2

[Jesmcalli]

Nangasaur, you're right, when "that other game" implemented debuffs for leaving it did change over night. Instead of quitters we got AFKers. When they implemented an idle kick, those AFKers did the bare minimum to stay active. Both things lock up the queue for that fight, and there is no chance of maybe getting someone that will actually play, which you would have if quitters could just leave.

[Nangasaur]

Another thing to note, by the by. If more are leaving warzones than staying... Doesn't that mean that more of BioWare's "paying" customers want to be able to leave a warzone than those who want them to stay? So wouldn't BioWare actually be upsetting more "paying" customers by implementing a ban system than by not implementing one?

Uhm, only quitters believe more quitters leave matches than those who stay. They don't know how wrong that is because they never stick around long enough to see for themselves. They're just too busy hanging out with their birds-of-a-feather guild, talking about all the /ragequitting they do.

 

Those of us who don't quit, actually see that the greater majority stick around. When 6 people stay, and only 1 or 2 leave, that's clear and irrefutable evidence to the contrary of what you are so wrongly saying and misrepresenting the player base for.

[Nangasaur]

Nangasaur, you're right, when "that other game" implemented debuffs for leaving it did change over night. Instead of quitters we got AFKers. When they implemented an idle kick, those AFKers did the bare minimum to stay active. Both things lock up the queue for that fight, and there is no chance of maybe getting someone that will actually play, which you would have if quitters could just leave.

I don't know what, "that other game" is doing now, but I did not see this problem 2 years ago when I played again briefly.

 

What I will say is this: that, "other other game" that was released this past year got it perfectly right. Quitters got deserter debuffs. We could easily votekick AFK'rs out. There was a rather short timer for hanging out in the spawn area after dying. And a moderate timer for standing around doing nothing. All bases were covered. We, the players, policed them up very quickly when the game couldn't do it for us with the deserter debuff. And you know what else? If you got AFK vote kicked, you got the deserter debuff. It didn't take a unanimous vote to kick them out...only like 3 or 4 votes.

 

Quitters and AFK'ers were few and far between.

[JuradEnor]

I would consider a penalty when;

 

a. Level 50 players stop showing up enmasse with level 40 unmodded gear;

 

b. They effectively get rid of the afkers;

 

c. Players started playing to the objectives of the map instead of farming medals for commendations;

 

d. Players stopped fighting in your own NZone, constantly and consistently providing jump targets, tried to capture turrets, run the ball, stop the ball carrier or blow up the door;

 

e. They fix the exploits and bugs like the bomb being placed on the doors before the bridges have even been deployed, players still LOS planting on the doors, timers not working while watching the other team run in and plant the bomb before you can even jump down at start of match, riding speeder when match has already started;

 

f. they make gear stats not so detrimental, so that premade valour 60 fully battlemaster geared groups dont maul oppossing teams 5 nothing in the first 2 minutes, and farm your team for the next 13 minutes; and

 

g. players can actually que for the scenarios they want to play.

 

Fix the cause, not the symptoms.

[Winteria]

Lets face the truth,

 

This game is going Down.

[SithtobeJedi]

March is when rated WZ's come out and penalties will be bigger for people that leave.

[TheRFC]

Uhm, only quitters believe more quitters leave matches than those who stay. They don't know how wrong that is because they never stick around long enough to see for themselves. They're just too busy hanging out with their birds-of-a-feather guild, talking about all the /ragequitting they do.

 

Those of us who don't quit, actually see that the greater majority stick around. When 6 people stay, and only 1 or 2 leave, that's clear and irrefutable evidence to the contrary of what you are so wrongly saying and misrepresenting the player base for.

 

 

But there are better solutions.

 

Why should I be punished because the game won't let me out the spawn and I get booted? Or if I get disconnected.

 

Also, it's not necessarily a staggering majority who do this. Suppose you start with a full team of 8, and they score in Huttball ... suppose 2 leave ... then it's not uncommon to find others join, see the score (which may now be 2 - 0) and also quit.

 

The ONLY reward for Dailies/ Weeklies is the WIN not HOW you play or even if you bothered to play.

 

Even if they introduce an AFK thing, someone could easily get around that by playing lazily and half-assed for 15 mins. How are BW going to solve THAT issue? 'Yeah ... I'm just a bad player ...' Do they THEN need to start implementing debuffs based on a player skill to make sure they catch out those crafty would-be AFKers?

 

Your solution just adds problem after problem that an infant can get around.

 

A better solution is reward a player for playing objectively, which this game currently doesn't. Reward LESS for a win compared to a loss and ffs don't base the Dailies/ Weeklies on it else people will only be concerned w/ finding a lobby they can get carried by w/ little effort.

[TheRFC]

I don't know what, "that other game" is doing now, but I did not see this problem 2 years ago when I played again briefly.

 

What I will say is this: that, "other other game" that was released this past year got it perfectly right. Quitters got deserter debuffs. We could easily votekick AFK'rs out. There was a rather short timer for hanging out in the spawn area after dying. And a moderate timer for standing around doing nothing. All bases were covered. We, the players, policed them up very quickly when the game couldn't do it for us with the deserter debuff. And you know what else? If you got AFK vote kicked, you got the deserter debuff. It didn't take a unanimous vote to kick them out...only like 3 or 4 votes.

 

Quitters and AFK'ers were few and far between.

 

 

And how long before the AFK vote kick is exploited?

 

I ran was thrown in with a pre-made but who couldn't be bothered to play recently. I kept telling them to play for the objective but they just sat at the node we had and couldn't be bothered and were only interested in arguing with me.

 

Supposing we introduce an AFK vote kick, whose to say I couldn't have been kicked seeing as they would have already had 4 votes, and only need one more!

 

AFK vote kick could be abused and is a terrible, terrible idea. It could lead to people being kicked for not being geared etc. Bad idea.

[Darth_Ricky]

how bout, fk the daily

 

problem fix'd

[dkangl]

You place a debuff on me if I leave then i will simply park myself in a corner and not help whichever way matters not to me as I am NOT going to try when noone else is or noone else knows how to pvp.

[Drudenfusz]

I wouldn't mind a deserter debuff, when I would not get kicked out so often in WZ that have already started (because the game starts the 30 seconds timer while I still see a loading screen).

[Nangasaur]

I would consider a penalty when;

 

a. Level 50 players stop showing up enmasse with level 40 unmodded gear;

Because let's face it, players should be punished for the gear they wear, because who knows that that person has a learning disability or for some Godly reason made it to level 50 without realizing they could put mods in their gear. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense dude.

 

b. They effectively get rid of the afkers;

Yep. Punish people who have a sudden, irresistible urge to relieve their bowels; their baby suddenly wakes up from a nap screaming and they need to run and check on them; an unexpected knock on their front door must be answered; or any number of things.

 

c. Players started playing to the objectives of the map instead of farming medals for commendations;

The only reasonable thing you've said so far. But uh, hate to break it to you, medals and commendations are rewards for participating in the warzone, no matter how you swing it. They are objectives of the warzone. Bioware created this problem, and they've got to fix it. We've already proven in 45 pages that you can't change selfish people unless you remove their reward for being selfish.

 

d. Players stopped fighting in your own NZone, constantly and consistently providing jump targets, tried to capture turrets, run the ball, stop the ball carrier or blow up the door;

If you're so pro, how about you talk in Ops chat and give people pointers and tips on how to win matches? I can't count how many times I've seen someone do something silly like run around in our own end zone with the ball, and I've had to educate them on just throwing the ball away to get it back to center quickly. They learned, and never did it again. Teach them; most reasonable people will listen. Those who don't, well, they'll probably just end up on the ragequitter list anyways.

 

e. They fix the exploits and bugs like the bomb being placed on the doors before the bridges have even been deployed,

Not a bug or exploit. It's very hard to get the jump timing right on it. Consequently, you could always just pull them back after jumping across.

 

players still LOS planting on the doors, timers not working while watching the other team run in and plant the bomb before you can even jump down at start of match, riding speeder when match has already started;

Games will always have bugs and exploits. Let's say Bioware fixes all these, and the following day, a new, previously unknown exploit is discovered. Does Bioware then have to suspend the deserter debuff every time a new exploit is found and abused? Get real, or get lost. Remove the reward for quitting.

 

g. players can actually que for the scenarios they want to play.

Only the second thing you've said of any real reason.

 

Fix the cause, not the symptoms.

Quitting is only a symptom of "E". I won't count "G", because you can still quit during the initial game start countdown, and most likely won't hurt your team because of it (but it can still happen depending loading times).

 

A and B are not causes of quitters; they're pathetic excuses for quitters. People have real life obligations outside of the game. If that annoys you so terribly, then try being an adult for once and walk a mile in their shoes, then maybe you'll have some sympathy for them. For now, saying quitters have a good excuse to quit because another team mate's child just gashed their head open and is bleeding, is well, repulsive to me and extremely insensitive.

 

C, again is not a valid cause to be a quitter. Earning valor and medals in warzones is part of the objectives of the warzone - win or lose. Why else are they there? LOL.

 

D, also not a valid cause to be a quitter. Quitters who refuse to teach new people strategy and how to gear up their character for PVP are, again, just being self-centered punks. I had absolutely no understanding of the gear purchasing system with the bags and such when I hit 50. I would have been pretty pissed off at my guild if nobody took the time to explain it to me. I would have quit the guild, too, most likely, and become a quitter just like all you quitters. Teach the people how to play, don't harass them for not knowing what to do. And for goodness sake, stop using someone else's lack of knowing the game as a valid excuse for you to be selfish.