Forever_Alone Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I want to do PVP DPS but I'm hearing Jugs have no surviveability and hardly get any kills as DPS in PVP. Is this true? What are the benefits of being Jug DPS over Marauder DPS, and do Jugs win most 1v1's? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalAlien Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Juggs have more survivability than Marauders, yet ultimately lose when compared to Marauders based on DPS and kills only. That doesn't mean a well played DPS Jugg can rock. I run around PVP with an Immortal build and can get a decent 200K with >25 kills on a good match (average is more of 100K with 15-20 since I focus on protection and just being a general annoyance). I can just imagine what a well geared, skilled Vengeance build will do even better for DPS. The thing about Jugg DPS is that you get more damage by generally being able to last somewhat longer than a Marauder do. My 200K damage matches usually happen because no one was able to finish me off plus being focused on the support players of the other team such as healers. However, a bursty Marauder can definitely rack up a good kill count. Quite a few Marauders claim to be better at DPS and kills than Sorcs and IA's, which is true in the warzones and raids where I have a very competent Marauder. So, really, the best choice for you is what you think would be the most fun to play so long as you spend the time to learn the tricks of the trade for your class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Juggs have more survivability than Marauders, yet ultimately lose when compared to Marauders based on DPS and kills only. That doesn't mean a well played DPS Jugg can rock. I run around PVP with an Immortal build and can get a decent 200K with >25 kills on a good match (average is more of 100K with 15-20 since I focus on protection and just being a general annoyance). I can just imagine what a well geared, skilled Vengeance build will do even better for DPS. The thing about Jugg DPS is that you get more damage by generally being able to last somewhat longer than a Marauder do. My 200K damage matches usually happen because no one was able to finish me off plus being focused on the support players of the other team such as healers. However, a bursty Marauder can definitely rack up a good kill count. Quite a few Marauders claim to be better at DPS and kills than Sorcs and IA's, which is true in the warzones and raids where I have a very competent Marauder. So, really, the best choice for you is what you think would be the most fun to play so long as you spend the time to learn the tricks of the trade for your class. I agree with Immortal. It's really about what is important to you. If kill count and overall damage is more important then enjoying what you are playing, then go with a sorc but if you really want to play a Jugg in PvP (as in you enjoy how the class plays), then you may have to change your viewpoint a bit. As an example, Jugg's get rewards for guarding team players as well as simple DPS. playing to your strengths (outlasting other players while supporting your teammates) goes a much longer way on a jugg then a Maurader. Jugg's simply have more tools to play defensively. If you try to play your Jugg like a maurader (jump in, burn everything down before you die), you will probably be disappointed. But play your Jugg in PvE, learn how they work with all their skills, watch some Jugg videos to get an idea of how others play in PvP, and you will probably be fine. Edit: In just scanning the first 2 pages of this forum, I saw 4-5 threads (most with video) of people having amazing success with Jugg in PvP. Where is it that people are hearing that Jugg's "do bad" in PvP? is it dark little corners where other classes tend to gather, or is it that people simply ignore the positive threads, and focus on the negative ones? Edited February 12, 2012 by Elyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_Alone Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 I want to be able to win almost every 1v1, and even 2v1's. I don't care about amount of kills or damage, I just don't want to get owned by other classes in 1v1 fights because that''s what I tend to do and that's what I find to be the funnest in PVP. So my concerns were that the Juggernaut might not be able to put out enough damage or last long enough in a 1v1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafkin Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 In 40 levels of pvp I've had maybe 3 true 1v1 fights. It just doesn't happen that often. Of course I'm not on a pvp server so maybe my point of view is not valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavory Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I want to be able to win almost every 1v1, and even 2v1's. I don't care about amount of kills or damage, I just don't want to get owned by other classes in 1v1 fights because that''s what I tend to do and that's what I find to be the funnest in PVP. So my concerns were that the Juggernaut might not be able to put out enough damage or last long enough in a 1v1... I cant speak for Juggs, but we have a dueling tournament on Jung Ma every weekend. 550+ expertise required. In the first tournament, the 2 finalists were Marauders. In the second Tournament, 3 of the 4 semi finalists were Marauders, and the 2 finalists were Marauders. That means that in 2 tournaments with 8-16 Battlemaster level PvPers, the only losses that the 5 marauders ever took..........were to OTHER marauders. Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilpingu Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Marauders are probably the best 1v1 class right now - with all of their offensive and defensive cooldowns up they're incredibly tough to beat. Then again 1v1 really doesn't mean a whole lot in Warzones. Depends on what playstyle interests you I guess. I play an offensive Immortal PvP build and enjoy a lot of success with it. You have good survivability, decent damage, but above all you can be just about the most annoying thing on the battlefield for the enemy to contend with. I did try Rage for a while and, while fun and the crits are nice to see, it's a total one-trick pony. I do not play a Marauder however one of our guildies rerolled Jugg to Mara and loves it. Their ability to wreck just about anything 1v1 mixed with some amazing defensive and movement abilities should definitely not be overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaesoron Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Because 1 Handed lightsabres are just classy Edited February 13, 2012 by Kaesoron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quor Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm Vengy specced, but spend most of my time in pvp using Soresu, because being able go guard someone is just too valuable more often than not. Having said that, even while running Soresu the fact that I have a lot of damage abilities from Vengeance means I can still put out some hurt, and I have the option to swap to Shien form if I need to really put out some damage. I'm tankier without CD's than an Immortal Jugg (thanks to Deafening Defense, Unstoppable, and Huddle) but an Immortal has more tools (Invincible, Sonic Barrier) to soak big damage than I do. Saber Ward and Endure Pain tend to keep me up against most things however, and Huddle/Unstoppable make up the difference elsewhere (and are up far more often than Invincible is). I'd say the best build for a Jugg that wanted tankyness with good damage would be something like 14/27 Immortal/Vengy. Grab Impale and the Scream/Throw crit talent attached to it with Invincible and Heavy-handed in the Immortal tree. Run around in Soresu soaking damage and putting down hurt like a boss. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crhczZhRrMrhdzMM.1 is what I would probably use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BombaLuigi Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I played a Sniper to 35 (nice concept, but boring gameplay), an Operative to 50 (weeeell... yeah.... no thanks), a Bounty Hunter (PyroMerc, Arsenal is just dumb) to 50 and almost 50 Valor, and now a Juggernaut. Out of the Classes i tried and played so far, the Jugger is my most favourite Class to play. And i cant exactly say why, but to me it seems like the Juggernaut offers a good balance between damage, mobility, utility and survivability. With stuff like Mass Taunt, Guard and intervention i just feel like i can help my Team in PVP so much more than with raw dps only. And, since im Rage specced, i dont lack that precious burst either. I dont know why or what the reason exactly is, the Juggernaut feels just more fun AND useful, at least in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrHaterade Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm a marauder, but I'm taking a break to level my Jugg. Why you ask? Because I watched the Deceived movie recently and thought, "Damn. I wish I could throw my 'saber, force push, force charge, ravage, then impale someone too!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousferret Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Played an Op to Valor 50, but the platstyle was too slow for me. I love the way a Jugg plays. Tons of control, mobility, and okay dps. One on one they are okay, but I feel the class exists in pvp for controlling and not solo play. A good Jugg will keep opponents taunted and off heals and ranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltmode Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I rerolled a jugg after playing a 50 sorc. so far I love the playstyle of it. its very intense as each match tends to be different since you're in middle of the battlefield where things get real sticky, as opposed to my caster where you basically focus on shooting targets in the back from a safe difference. I was very picky with my positioning as a caster, always placing myself near LOS objects and having a way out when I started to take lots of dmg. however, I seem to have positioning issues with my jugg. as there seems to be a number of successful juggs in this thread, not to derail from the OP's topic, I was hoping to get some pointers on your jugg's placement in pvp. warzones tend to be a hit or miss for me. some games are smooth with 9 medals while others are completely chaotic and I die more times than I can count. I'm only lvl 34 atm so I know I am missing key talents and gear, but I think my character placement is getting me killed a lot. I have this charge in gungho mentality since I'm a jugg, and it gets me killed very fast. this is mainly apparent in voidstars at the doors. ill see some stealth buddies near the doors completely surrounded by enemies. I usually panic and charge in, although I should save charge for an escape method. once I'm in the center of a huge fight, I go down very quickly from ranged dps by the pillars and the crowd of melee. how do you guys approach a situation like this? I'd hate to stand on the outskirts waiting to pick off a straggler whilst watching my teammates become torn apart by the big packs of enemies. I play veng spec, and I don't use soreso stance much except for huttballs as it slows my rage regen without proper defense talents. any tips on positioning in events like this? do you guys charge in and aoe, or try and draw them away from the big packs? as to the OP, I hope you play a jugg. I think you'll like it since each fight is different and you get to adjust your style accordingly. it requires far more concentration than my sorc imo. in the middle of.all the chaos, adapting to enemies inches away from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jujj Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 People who are raging and mad goes to forums and complain. People enjoying the game dont because they're busy enjoying the game. Therefore don't trust the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatZecaai Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Because 1 Handed lightsabres are just classy This. Because I want to choke my enemies with one hand and strike them with my lightsaber in the other hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_Alone Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 First off thank everyone for the input. I just watched this PVP video, and I'm completely surprised. I have never even seen other DPS classes get crits like this, can the Jug do this or did this guy get really lucky while recording? If the Jug puts out damage like this then I'm set.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eighteenistoold Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Juggs have more survivability than Marauders, yet ultimately lose when compared to Marauders based on DPS and kills only. That doesn't mean a well played DPS Jugg can rock. I run around PVP with an Immortal build and can get a decent 200K with >25 kills on a good match (average is more of 100K with 15-20 since I focus on protection and just being a general annoyance). I can just imagine what a well geared, skilled Vengeance build will do even better for DPS. The thing about Jugg DPS is that you get more damage by generally being able to last somewhat longer than a Marauder do. My 200K damage matches usually happen because no one was able to finish me off plus being focused on the support players of the other team such as healers. However, a bursty Marauder can definitely rack up a good kill count. Quite a few Marauders claim to be better at DPS and kills than Sorcs and IA's, which is true in the warzones and raids where I have a very competent Marauder. So, really, the best choice for you is what you think would be the most fun to play so long as you spend the time to learn the tricks of the trade for your class. Do not listen to this false, Marauders have more defensive cooldowns than juggernauts and heavy armor makes no difference when the marauder can heal himself for 10% every 30 seconds in addition to 2% every couple of seconds. Maruaders virtually wear heavy armor for this reason. Unless you are specced immortal juggs will be as squishy as assassins, but then why would you care about damage? Juggernauts are tied for worst class right next to sins (dps sins, lolololol darkness is op) But really. if you want to deal damage do not roll a melee class, bioware did a very impressive job at making every map and every ability and every encounter and every everything lean towards ranged. Roll a sniper, i've literally sat in cover and never used a knockback and just fired snipe into a marauder... he died, i didn't... only reason is that melee is broken, and will never be fixed due to the fundamental design of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actua Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I'm a BM Jugg. Given a full lenght huttball, I will always get 300k dmg if I'm not only carrying the ball and taking the heat for the team. (were just top of the line carriers with charge and intercede). Our damage and burst is probably one of the highest, which is fine since we're melee. In 1v1, there is honestly no class that can stand us besides marauder (mainly because of undying rage and force shroud, but then again, marauders faceroll anyone in 1v1). We don't push 500k dmg due to lack of aoe, but it doesnt matter, because when you look at the killboard, you're 10 kills ahead of everyone, you went immortal, you scored the ball 2-3 times, you saved your teamates 2-3 times with guard and taunt, you made the sorcs and mercs cry to baby jesus when you are in their face, you massacred the ennemy healer a couple of times ect.. ect.. Either people are not playing their juggs right, or are lying, because I always make one hell of an impact on my games through DPS, I lead the medals, the kills, the damage and so forth. Also, I'm vengeance spec. So no "LOL SMASHES" comments here please ( even though I like that spec as well.) I won't say we're better than marauders, cause we are not, we're just different, and bring different stuff to the table. But DPS juggs are a hell on earth for the ennemy team if well played. * BTW, another BM jugg who is very good as well has once pushed for 495k in huttball as vengeance/obliterate. My personal record in huttball is 407k. Pocket healers make us walking gods. Edited February 14, 2012 by Actua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGSThomas Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 To touch on some of the things said in this thread that, mostly all, in my opinion, have merit. I'm a BM Jugg and I've played all three specs in PvP for quite some time. I've noticed one thing. Again this is just my preference but, I dont feel more powerful if I kill more players but rather if I dont die. Typically, I die once or twice in a full length huttball. It helps to have 500+ expertise but its really Immortals cooldown that make that beauty. I frequently find people on my server "gunning" for me because they know I'm gonna start taunting and pouring damage on everyone. Even when I'm 2v1 I still feel like I have a good chance to win. A well timed Force push into the fire while force choking his friend is a hell of a lot more fun then just casting smash. 1v1 I feel immortal (which I hear a lot in WZs) If we are equally geared I think maybe only a Marauder or a very well played sorc can kill me and even then it could go either way. Most other classes stand no chance, with immortal there are too many defensive abilties to die. You have 3 defensive cooldowns not including relic. You have force push, force choke, (no channel needed) backhand, and an AOE stun. Not to mention the interrupt from force charge and your standard interrupt. Putting it all together with the right timing is the real trick, it took me well into valor 30's to really get the flow of an immortal DPS. You cant just go around blowing cooldowns, they have to be used in optimal situations. At the end though, you command the battlefield and walk away with the most medals and MVP votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGSThomas Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I rerolled a jugg after playing a 50 sorc. so far I love the playstyle of it. its very intense as each match tends to be different since you're in middle of the battlefield where things get real sticky, as opposed to my caster where you basically focus on shooting targets in the back from a safe difference. I was very picky with my positioning as a caster, always placing myself near LOS objects and having a way out when I started to take lots of dmg. however, I seem to have positioning issues with my jugg. as there seems to be a number of successful juggs in this thread, not to derail from the OP's topic, I was hoping to get some pointers on your jugg's placement in pvp. warzones tend to be a hit or miss for me. some games are smooth with 9 medals while others are completely chaotic and I die more times than I can count. I'm only lvl 34 atm so I know I am missing key talents and gear, but I think my character placement is getting me killed a lot. I have this charge in gungho mentality since I'm a jugg, and it gets me killed very fast. this is mainly apparent in voidstars at the doors. ill see some stealth buddies near the doors completely surrounded by enemies. I usually panic and charge in, although I should save charge for an escape method. once I'm in the center of a huge fight, I go down very quickly from ranged dps by the pillars and the crowd of melee. how do you guys approach a situation like this? I'd hate to stand on the outskirts waiting to pick off a straggler whilst watching my teammates become torn apart by the big packs of enemies. I play veng spec, and I don't use soreso stance much except for huttballs as it slows my rage regen without proper defense talents. any tips on positioning in events like this? do you guys charge in and aoe, or try and draw them away from the big packs? as to the OP, I hope you play a jugg. I think you'll like it since each fight is different and you get to adjust your style accordingly. it requires far more concentration than my sorc imo. in the middle of.all the chaos, adapting to enemies inches away from you. I ran into the same problem, and the trick is... don't charge in right away. We arent a tank in PvP, thats a common misconception. We can be burned down quite fast if focused on by 2 or more. The trick is, wait 5 seconds for the enemy to pick their targets (not you) then taunt them so they do 20% less to your ally. Then charge in and help finish him. You will get 2 medals for this alone. At level 34 I dont know if you have the AoE taunt but that works wonders. The same strategy as above, wait for the huge melee and then charge in and AoE taunt everyone, you will see two medals on top of eachother. Find a healer and smack him while taunting off enemies attacking your healer. If no healer is there then help your allies finish off the lowest health player. Playing this way, its possible even with no expertise to not die in a full warzone. learn when is a good time to use your cooldowns, if you get focus fired in voidstar then use your cooldowns and kite them around objects while you stun them, a lot of pvpers cant be bothered with this and they pick a new target (especially ranged) Its also imperative that in voidstar you stay int he middle and wait to commit yourself to where the fighting is the thickest. That is where you will be the most help with your taunts. In Civil war fight only at the nodes. But make sure that any attackers pick your ally to attack first (hide yourself to oncoming players like in the middle node for instance, stay on the side top section where the buffs are and wait for melee. In huttball you can either carry the ball or taunt people off the ball carrier and stun them. I like doing the later. Huttball has a lot of escape options if you are getting focus fired. But one thing i learned as melee, dont fight in the middle. Its a death trap. Instead wait for a huge melee in the middle, charge in, AOE taunt everyone then take the vents to the ramps and punch some ranged in the face. You have A LOT of utility with this class and as you level you will see more and more of it. Just be smart about your abilities and timing. Like do you really need to use force choke on an enemy thats almost dead? Do you need to charge in? because most likely you are gonna get thrown back anyway. Run in, saber throw, get pushed back THEN charge. Charge is very easy to fall in love with because its fast and good. But slow and steady can sometimes win the race and thats really the mindset you have to take with a Juggernaut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_Alone Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 First off thank everyone for the input. I just watched this PVP video, and I'm completely surprised. I have never even seen other DPS classes get crits like this, can the Jug do this or did this guy get really lucky while recording? If the Jug puts out damage like this then I'm set.... Can anyone comment on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatZecaai Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 More importantly, how do you zoom out like he did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingFink Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 More importantly, how do you zoom out like he did? In the preferences there is a slider for how far out you can zoom. Not sure its exact locations but look for slider bars and the title of it should be obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreadkhan Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Can anyone comment on this? that was pre 1.1.1, those types of crits are no longer possible. 3.5k smash is a regular tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_Alone Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Is it true Juggernauts are getting a damage buff in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts