Paralassa Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Hi there! We recently had to remove or edit some posts in this thread. Please remember that discussion of real world politics, morality or ethics are inappropriate for the forums. Thanks for your understanding, and please enjoy your friendly debate! Edited February 27, 2012 by Paralassa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Have yet to see a valid reason why my option to play the game I want should be ignored in favour of the way YOU want. However, again the non-LGBT community compromises and again it's offensive to entertain ANY idea that does not expound the glory of not being "normal".... Just take away all flirts for everyone. Not even a toggle. That way we can stop being offensive to everybody. Because that's what's important right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenoAmi Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Have yet to see a valid reason why my option to play the game I want should be ignored in favour of the way YOU want. However, again the non-LGBT community compromises and again it's offensive to entertain ANY idea that does not expound the glory of not being "normal".... Just take away all flirts for everyone. Not even a toggle. That way we can stop being offensive to everybody. Because that's what's important right? What you want is to cease coming s/g romances that are currently coming from a company that is lauded for same-gender content. That'd be like going to play something from the people that made Ever 17 and 9 Hours 9 Persons 9 Doors, then going "WHY ARE ALL THESE PLOT TWISTS AND MIND SCREWS HERE!?" Ignoring the obviously fallacious "Oh no, tolerance is equivalent to oppression" argument, along with the slippery slope in the last paragraph. =3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyons Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) What you want is to cease coming s/g romances that are currently coming from a company that is lauded for same-gender content. That'd be like going to play something from the people that made Ever 17 and 9 Hours 9 Persons 9 Doors, then going "WHY ARE ALL THESE PLOT TWISTS AND MIND SCREWS HERE!?" Ignoring the obviously fallacious "Oh no, tolerance is equivalent to oppression" argument, along with the slippery slope in the last paragraph. =3 No, I believe what he said was that he found no reason to not add a toggle option to the game. How exactly you got the above paragraph out of this Have yet to see a valid reason why my option to play the game I want should be ignored in favour of the way YOU want. However, again the non-LGBT community compromises and again it's offensive to entertain ANY idea that does not expound the glory of not being "normal".... Just take away all flirts for everyone. Not even a toggle. That way we can stop being offensive to everybody. Because that's what's important right? Is beyond me. To summarize - he was pointing out that anything that seems to NOT glorify the LGBT is instantly destroyed. He then plainly pointed out that we may as well take away the flirt option completely because its always going to offend someone. Please do attempt to read the posts before you respond Edited February 27, 2012 by Elyons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) You know, a toggle is an interesting idea, but really I'd just love to see same gender romances and flirts make it into this game. I mean we really don't need a toggle for that, we just need more than 3 options on the conversation wheel, then if you don't want to flirt with someone, don't choose the option to do so. Issue resolved. *shrug* Edited February 27, 2012 by JediElf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenoAmi Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 No, I believe what he said was that he found no reason to not add a toggle option to the game. How exactly you got the above paragraph out of this Is beyond me. To summarize - he was pointing out that anything that seems to NOT glorify the LGBT is instantly destroyed. He then plainly pointed out that we may as well take away the flirt option completely because its always going to offend someone. Please do attempt to read the posts before you respond Take your own advice. To advocate the absence of flirt options is frankly silly at this point, as it is to advocate the ceasing of s/g content, as is stated in earlier posts and that one. That's why I make my points. But yeah, your post is totally not a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 What you want is to cease coming s/g romances that are currently coming from a company that is lauded for same-gender content. That'd be like going to play something from the people that made Ever 17 and 9 Hours 9 Persons 9 Doors, then going "WHY ARE ALL THESE PLOT TWISTS AND MIND SCREWS HERE!?" Ignoring the obviously fallacious "Oh no, tolerance is equivalent to oppression" argument, along with the slippery slope in the last paragraph. =3 Uh.... no? Wow.. you really need to chill out. Nothing you said had anything to do with my text you quoted. Please go back and edit my post out of yours please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 No, I believe what he said was that he found no reason to not add a toggle option to the game. How exactly you got the above paragraph out of this Is beyond me. To summarize - he was pointing out that anything that seems to NOT glorify the LGBT is instantly destroyed. He then plainly pointed out that we may as well take away the flirt option completely because its always going to offend someone. Please do attempt to read the posts before you respond Thanks for trying but sadly I am starting to see there is no discussion really on this topic.. just demands and insults to those that do not agree with the anti-toggle crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcaptainpants Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) However, again the non-LGBT community compromises and again it's offensive to entertain ANY idea that does not expound the glory of not being "normal".... I think you are drawing dividing lines in the wrong places. This isn't an issue that has all LGBT people on one side of the line and "Non-LGBT" people on the other. I think you do your argument a disservice by presenting it in this manner. Not everyone who is heterosexual supports a toggle. Not everyone who is homosexual opposes a toggle. There is a dividing line, but I don't think its as simple as you are suggesting. Edited February 27, 2012 by mrcaptainpants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ologarth Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 No disrespect to anyone, but, I will not support this company if they choose to take this action. If or when they implement same-sex relationships I will cancel my subscription. I want bioware and EA to understand that every action has a reaction. I know that I am not alone on this issue; there are some who are pro, neutral and against which is fine ( you have the right to be wrong ) but if the game has really become that political/ anti-religious I cannot support it. Which is a shame because I thought the game was really excellent; have a level 50 ( only one not pro enough to have two). Anyways have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcaptainpants Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) EDIT: Nevermind. (Post I was responding to was removed) Edited February 27, 2012 by mrcaptainpants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcaptainpants Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 No disrespect to anyone, [sNIP] Oh, clearly. [sNIP] but, I will not support this company if they choose to take this action. If or when they implement same-sex relationships I will cancel my subscription. I find this curious. The company you are supporting already has implemented same-sex relationships in their other games, but you have no problems supporting them now? Besides, in case you are not aware, it is not a matter of "IF". Bioware has already stated that this content will be coming. It was originally planned to be in the game when it launched, but because of the time frame involved with the impending launch date, they said it would be a post-launch feature instead. ( you have the right to be wrong ) And I will most graciously extend to you the same right. Isn't it wonderful when we all get along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCarnage Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 i think at this time tehy have to paly it save(BW) due to they need to gain credit in this market and adding a gay option/choices likely be frown apound by the majority. me i can care less, but if they pander to the gay group, then they need to pander to other groups" hye no killing animals" peta,"why they not real black poeple in game" instead of the proper english versions, etc. it would cause alot of groups to yell out, compain and mainly hurt BW bottom line to go outside the "norm" at this time. once tehy get a good thing going they could make another game wiht some of those options in there or try a single player game first as a test run to see how poeple will react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsumedai Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think you are drawing dividing lines in the wrong places. This isn't an issue that has all LGBT people on one side of the line and "Non-LGBT" people on the other. I think you do your argument a disservice by presenting it in this manner. Not everyone who is heterosexual supports a toggle. Not everyone who is homosexual opposes a toggle. There is a dividing line, but I don't think its as simple as you are suggesting. Correct. I'm heterosexual, so I guess that makes me part of Galius' "non-LGBT community". But I don't see the inclusion of same-sex content as something that requires any kind of compromise. Rather, any game that includes romance as a substantial part of the experience should include same-sex options from the outset. In the 21st Century, the idea that this is even open for debate is shameful. Hetero and homosexual romances should be treated on an equal footing; implemented at the same time, in the same way, for the same reasons. Sadly, BioWare have already failed on that score, despite their excellent track record in this area. I sincerely hope they're not going to consider compounding that failure by adding a completely unnecessary feature to hide content which should have been available from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozybidaj Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 In the 21st Century, the idea that this is even open for debate is shameful. Agreed. This isn't 1952 anymore. Time for the TOR devs to catch up with the times. How the same gender content wasn't included in the game at the start is indeed shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Agreed. This isn't 1952 anymore. Time for the TOR devs to catch up with the times. How the same gender content wasn't included in the game at the start is indeed shameful. Oh get serious. This is NOT the same as the civil rights movement so get off the soapbox. This is a simple request for player choices to be allowed to continue to exist in the face of a minority push for content that is not indicative of the majority of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsumedai Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 This is a simple request for player choices to be allowed to continue to exist... And that's exactly what's going to happen. Nobody is going to be forced to romance an NPC of the same gender as their character. Exactly the same choices that exist now will continue to exist; there will simply be a few more alongside them, on equal footing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emusan Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 request for player choices to be allowed to continue to exist If the toggle was added and was actually used by anyone it would limit their choices... Right now there are players that are unable to make the choices they want in terms of relationships. Once this content is added it will only be adding more choices lol, not like the game is ONLY going to have homosexual relationships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenoAmi Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Oh get serious. This is NOT the same as the civil rights movement so get off the soapbox. This is a simple request for player choices to be allowed to continue to exist in the face of a minority push for content that is not indicative of the majority of players. Your angry text does a disservice to whatever point you're attempting to make. Furthermore, populist fallacy (if I remember my philosophy class from Freshman year correctly...). =3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Your angry text does a disservice to whatever point you're attempting to make. Furthermore, populist fallacy (if I remember my philosophy class from Freshman year correctly...). =3 Not a fallacy but sadly I am unable to submit facts to the contrary due to the limits placed on the posting in this thread that seems to only apply to pro-toggle people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emusan Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Not a fallacy but sadly I am unable to submit facts to the contrary due to the limits placed on the posting in this thread that seems to only apply to pro-toggle people. Actually I had a post that was deleted... While it didn't mention specifically that I was anti-toggle it made some serious hints. Still not entirely sure why it was deleted, but it was and I can accept that Bioware needs to keep tight wraps on their own forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenoAmi Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Not a fallacy but sadly I am unable to submit facts to the contrary due to the limits placed on the posting in this thread that seems to only apply to pro-toggle people. Fallacious as well. Claiming discrimination in return is actually the equivalent of "no u", especially when you very well know that politics, real-world issues of morality, et cetera, are exempt from this forum. To wit, many arguments for AND against the toggle have been greatly motivated by the very things not allowed on the forums- and the majority of deleted posts have held within it something... let's say of a less civil tongue. If you cannot make your argument here within these confines, then that is your failing, not mine. These are the facts: - LGBT content was promised from launch, but hasn't been implemented yet. - SGR's will contain flirt options, due to the fact one needs to flirt with their companion to engage in a romance. - The only "push" for anything is to a.) learn if NPC flirts will be implemented, and b.) how and when. Furthermore, the romance toggle (whether it only applies to homosexuality or not) only came about when same-sex options were given more spotlight by those in the forums (I believe this to be true, but I could be wrong on this particular point). BW has been lauded for s/g content- that is why there is any push whatsoever for this content: because BW has done so before, even in a SW game (KOTOR, implied in KOTOR II). The LGBT community and its supporters aren't out to change every game out there, nor attempt to make every game "gay-friendly". We are, however, mystified and confused that same-sex content wasn't put in at launch (though from what I've gathered, there are many features far more vital that have been mysteriously absent as well), and instead are given an indefinite "soon", with no other word on the subject. This is akin to playing every Super Smash Brothers, and suddenly Mario and Link are pay-necessary downloadable content to be implemented four or five months after its release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteStriker Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Having played a couple of Bioware's other games where there is same-sex gender content I can say from experience that it is easy to avoid. To initiate most of the romances you have to start the flirting yourself, so as long as you don't say flirty things to people of the same gender, you won't really have to worry about it. Use the in-game dialog and story mechanics as your filter if you would like to avoid same sex content; that's what I do and it works fine for me. In every game of Bioware's that I've played, I've only known that same-sex content existed because someone else made mention of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcaptainpants Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Not a fallacy but sadly I am unable to submit facts to the contrary due to the limits placed on the posting in this thread that seems to only apply to pro-toggle people. Can we please stop with this already? You are not being treated any differently by the mods than anyone else. I have received warnings and had my posts deleted as well. The mods are doing the best they can in order to uphold the forum rules, and if a post of mine is deemed inappropriate, I suck it up and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaSky Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I think it's valid to want to choose your orientation, via toggle or character creation, to better suit your tastes. For example, I never realized just how many flirt options there are for female NPCs until I started grouping with my husband. My female IA got a grand total of two prompts by level 40, his male SW was in the dozens. I'd rather be able to say "Preference: Male" once than have to ignore all the lady flirts for 50 levels. That'd be like going to play something from the people that made Ever 17 and 9 Hours 9 Persons 9 Doors, then going "WHY ARE ALL THESE PLOT TWISTS AND MIND SCREWS HERE!?" Had to quote because you may be the only other person I know that's into Ever17. I love that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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