Suggestion - A Simple Way to Fix Ilum

[DarthDrakmoor]

Great ideas! I sincerely hope this gets some consideration at the very least.

[Graymonster]

I think this sounds like a great idea, I am a little iffy about the base siege part because I have nightmares from Warhammer. I think these ideas are well thought out and hope that Bioware takes an honest look at this post and puts pride aside and gives its customers what it wants... non laggy playeable enjoyeable WORLD PVP. What is the point of rolling on a pvp server when nobody ever pvp's except in the wz's. I also agree with that person that said to use examples from other games of things that have worked in the past. To me there are just some simple things a game should have because other games had them and people liked them.

 

 

-Gray

[denpic]

I think to address faction imbalance

They need to implement a buff like blizzard did to address imbalance

In winter grasp which is similar to ilum

 

Tenacity increases the stats of the faction with the least amount of players

And is remove when close to equal number of both factions are present in the area

This would help players on low pop factions

[WittyRaevyn]

I think this sounds like a great idea, I am a little iffy about the base siege part because I have nightmares from Warhammer. I think these ideas are well thought out and hope that Bioware takes an honest look at this post and puts pride aside and gives its customers what it wants... non laggy playeable enjoyeable WORLD PVP. What is the point of rolling on a pvp server when nobody ever pvp's except in the wz's. I also agree with that person that said to use examples from other games of things that have worked in the past. To me there are just some simple things a game should have because other games had them and people liked them.

 

 

-Gray

 

 

My thoughts would be that the seizing of a base could be completed by 4-8 players easily (if there is no opposition by the opposing faction). I want there to be NPC's there, but not enough to stop a small group of people from being able to complete the objective. The final "item" must be channeled for a good amount of time (say 5 minutes) before it will be considered destroyed. This means that the person channeling it will need to be defended by his comrades, so it will be hard for a single player to complete.

 

When Objectives are reset to Neutral for ANY reason, all players are immediately sent back to their respective bases. This prevents the side with the numbers advantage from always having total control.

[WittyRaevyn]

I think to address faction imbalance

They need to implement a buff like blizzard did to address imbalance

In winter grasp which is similar to ilum

 

Tenacity increases the stats of the faction with the least amount of players

And is remove when close to equal number of both factions are present in the area

This would help players on low pop factions

 

There is no reason to add this stat if my design is implemented because the faction imbalance will be of little consequence. I'm not saying it wouldn't hurt to have this, but again, I'm trying to avoid asking for Bioware to add any new elements to the game.

[Psiwolf]

Oki, so I read your thread, now go read my idea! Tbh, I never really enjoyed the world objective pvp, I was always more of a xroads raid or SS/TM pvp kinda guy.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=283893

[Mformature]

You need to read through the thread.

 

Right now - you cannot complete your dailies because either

 

A) You can't get to the middle to get armaments

 

=or=

 

B) You can't kill the Imps because they vastly outnumber you

 

Now - what CAN you do in Ilum with your current population problem??

 

You CAN capture the objective points by sneaking around the Imperial raid group.

You CAN sit in your base.

You CAN, when you have an influx of people, actually go out together and kill some folks

 

So - with my proposition, all of the things you can actually do right now you will get REWARDED FOR. You will actually get to complete your dailies because all you need to do is sneak around and capture ONE objective. You can complete your weeklies the same way. Or...if you guys happen to have a lot of people in the zone...you can take over the base if you want.

 

I don't understand how my suggestion will "make it worse" for you. Please explain more thoroughly.

 

 

Your right I stopped reading though your initial post at valor gained per tick. Sorry about that, I do like your idea and would love to see it implemented. Now not sure about other servers but the imps on ours a determined to take any advantage they can from the rep side ( ie: stand their zerg far enough away from the fort so that we have to come out to get any kills then quickly overwhelm us with their numbers) So the only negative thing I can see on our server would be this turning into a valor or even "only people we like" type thing. I do support this idea an hope BW reads this and takes notes.

[DarthLightSide]

100% agree with OP...this should be stickied along with alot of other alternative to current failing system PVP threads

 

 

Faction vs Faction is fine and fun an all......But the real fun and meaningful PVP should be Guild vs Guild, or over a contested area on any given planet (PVP area like Alderan WZ for example, but actually on the planet in a real-time non instanced area, similiar to Illium, but on every planet, with a 3 hour reset clock) You Battle over it with your guildies against all those who appose you. No matter what the enemies faction is, their race, color, or political/lore background.

 

Simple contested over area and whoever wins/caps the objective gets some type of bonus for the next 3 hours. It could be an xp/valor xp bonus for the whole guild, or 50,000+ credits per hour of ownership, or some type of crafting material etc...etc...etc...

 

 

If I want to kill someone it usually stems from something they did to piss me off. I don't want faction or race to get in my way of killing someone. There are cool people on both sides of the faction fence. And the reverse applies as well....there are idiots on both sides of the faction fence...and I'd like to give them all an equal opportunity to taste the burning blades of my Lightsaber!

[WittyRaevyn]

100% agree with OP...this should be stickied along with alot of other alternative to current failing system PVP threads

 

 

Faction vs Faction is fine and fun an all......But the real fun and meaningful PVP should be Guild vs Guild, or over a contested area on any given planet (PVP area like Alderan WZ for example, but actually on the planet in a real-time non instanced area, similiar to Illium, but on every planet, with a 3 hour reset clock) You Battle over it with your guildies against all those who appose you. No matter what the enemies faction is, their race, color, or political/lore background.

 

Simple contested over area and whoever wins/caps the objective gets some type of bonus for the next 3 hours. It could be an xp/valor xp bonus for the whole guild, or 50,000+ credits per hour of ownership, or some type of crafting material etc...etc...etc...

 

 

If I want to kill someone it usually stems from something they did to piss me off. I don't want faction or race to get in my way of killing someone. There are cool people on both sides of the faction fence. And the reverse applies as well....there are idiots on both sides of the faction fence...and I'd like to give them all an equal opportunity to taste the burning blades of my Lightsaber!

 

I agree with you that faction vs. faction has killed MMO PVP completely. The best kind of pvp comes from true Player vs. Player - where you forge alliances with other players and guilds, and you have rivalry based upon your battles for conquest. I'll be sure to remember you when the PVP mmo I am designing comes out in a couple years

 

Until then, I'm hoping that this suggestion will be taken seriously to at least bring a little bit of fun to the lackluster world pvp.

[Gamedwarf]

I support this thread 100%. This is the most practical solution (for starters anyway) I've read to fix ilum. Other suggestions would require too much time/energy for Bioware to do in a timely fashion or well. Starting with this template, theres lots of places they could go.

 

My only critique is that, while the undermanned side could finish dailies/weeklies, they would be really outgunned when it came to merc commendation aquisition. I feel like a buff that allows the underpopulated side to aquire more merc coms per kill would be a good way to go with that, my 2 cents.

 

Additionally, give valor/merc com rewards for open world pvp on every other planet, and implement +/- 8 level cap in which you can attack someone to keep 50s from ganking 25s on tattooine.

 

Cheers

[Mcfree]

Bump for + feedback.

[WittyRaevyn]

I support this thread 100%. This is the most practical solution (for starters anyway) I've read to fix ilum. Other suggestions would require too much time/energy for Bioware to do in a timely fashion or well. Starting with this template, theres lots of places they could go.

 

My only critique is that, while the undermanned side could finish dailies/weeklies, they would be really outgunned when it came to merc commendation aquisition. I feel like a buff that allows the underpopulated side to aquire more merc coms per kill would be a good way to go with that, my 2 cents.

 

Additionally, give valor/merc com rewards for open world pvp on every other planet, and implement +/- 8 level cap in which you can attack someone to keep 50s from ganking 25s on tattooine.

 

Cheers

 

 

That is an excellent suggestion.

 

My proposed solution would be this: The longer you personally are in Ilum contributing to the war effort, you receive a stacking bonus up to a 2 hour limit (the time it takes the zone to reset if the full objective isn't completed). So for every 30 minutes you spend there, a scaling increase of Merc commendations will drop from whatever Objective or Person that you complete/kill.

 

The math would look something like:

 

30 Mins 1 Bonus = 2 per kill

1 hr = 2 Bonus = 4 per kill

1 hr 30 = 3 Bonus = 8 per kill

2 hr = 4 Bonus = 12 per kill

 

The Objective based rewards would go up incrementally by 5 per half hour.

 

This means that while the successful team will end up getting more, the losing team can still gain a bonus and if they constantly roam around capping objectives and killing randoms, they will still get rewarded.

 

Again - the main thing I am trying to accomplish is to make Ilum feel like a giant Warzone where everyone actually wants to be there and is given incentive to kill each other..

 

It wouldn't hurt if Bioware put some pvp Vendors in each base while they're at it...now would it?

Edited February 12, 2012 by WittyRaevyn

[WittyRaevyn]

Oki, so I read your thread, now go read my idea! Tbh, I never really enjoyed the world objective pvp, I was always more of a xroads raid or SS/TM pvp kinda guy.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=283893

 

I commented on your idea as well but my thread is actually supposed to make this just like SS/TM and xroads by encouraging people to be out there and kill each other and get increased rewards. However, it ALSO includes objectives for bonus valor/commendations for people who feel like participating.

 

The great thing about the world pvp is there is no wrong way to do it with this system! Sure there are more efficient ways, but JUST BY BEING THERE, you will get something! This is the crucial aspect that Bioware keeps missing.

[fluid]

i kind of disagree with doing anything that lets someone afk-bot in their factions starting area in a zone to earn anything.

 

here are some other ideas though...

 

bases are not "static"... get rid of the turrets in the bases.

 

make bases capturable objectives. have combat around the base determine who owns it. if there is a lot of combat at the gate of the republic base, have the bases swap sides. imperial becomes republic, republic becomes imperial. upon death, you spawn in your new base (if you died at your old base) instead of spawning in the middle. this keeps imperials from zerging a base until they own it, and vice versa.

 

put "hot spots" on the map. if there is a lot of fighting at central, put a flashing "explosion" icon on the map so you can tell with just a glance what objectives are being fought over. planetside used to do something similar to this.

 

spawn armament boxes ALL over the dedicated pvp side of the map, but do so sparsely.

 

as for your "ticking valor" idea. give a buff each time you enter combat. the buff will start awarding you 2 valor per minute for the next 5 minutes. at the end of that time, you lose the buff and will not get it back until you enter combat again. it also expires on death. that keeps the afk-botters from hiding under a rock like roaches and getting free valor.

 

oh and for the love of god get rid of the damned "quest log" tracking of objectives in the zone. again, a simple icon on the map would suffice, and probably get rid of the damned delays we all get when objectives change hands!

Edited February 12, 2012 by fluid

[Kelticfury]

THE PVP DAILIES/WEEKLIES

 

PVP Dailies for Ilum should now be: Overtake 3 objectives

PVP Weekly for Ilum should now be: Seige and capture the Republic/Imperial Base OR Overtake 30 Objectives

 

These new dailies discourage trading kills and encourage groups to work together to complete objectives. You can still potentially trade "objectives" however there are no mercenary drops that come from that, so you'll likely want to kill the republic rather than bargain with them.

 

I haven't gotten level for Ilum yet, but this is a perfect solution. Anyone should be able to see that.

[WittyRaevyn]

Let me address your post in sections.

 

i kind of disagree with doing anything that lets someone afk-bot in their factions starting area in a zone to earn anything.

 

Please see my paragraph directly addressing people who attempt to AFK or Bot. The rewards they would receive are absolutely miniscule. The ticking valor being zone wide is solves several problems:

1) Lower population factions still receive something for being in the zone

2) Encourages both factions to be in the zone rather than on the fleet

3) Bonuses to ticking valor encourage people to obtain more objectives (ie NOT BE AFK)

 

 

here are some other ideas though...

 

bases are not "static"... get rid of the turrets in the bases.

 

Having static bases provides a safe zone for either population. Getting rid of these will just completely discourage whatever side has less people from even entering the zone.

 

make bases capturable objectives. have combat around the base determine who owns it. if there is a lot of combat at the gate of the republic base, have the bases swap sides. imperial becomes republic, republic becomes imperial. upon death, you spawn in your new base (if you died at your old base) instead of spawning in the middle. this keeps imperials from zerging a base until they own it, and vice versa.

 

put "hot spots" on the map. if there is a lot of fighting at central, put a flashing "explosion" icon on the map so you can tell with just a glance what objectives are being fought over. planetside used to do something similar to this.

 

spawn armament boxes ALL over the dedicated pvp side of the map, but do so sparsely.

 

First off, the objectives in the zone are already capturable. We also, further along in the thread, addressed the spawn point issue and agreed that spawns should adjust based on what you own in the zone. We also agreed that when objectives are Neutral, people should spawn at their base. All people. This prevents anyone from camping a base without capturing objectives first because they will spawn on the opposite side of the map.

 

Your second comment regarding hot spots is a nice idea - but perhaps it should just show which bases are imperial/republic controlled. Once again, I'm trying to make Bioware have to do as little "Changing" as possible to the existing mechanics of the zone.

 

Lastly, regarding armaments, Gathering ANYTHING is not PvP. It's not even team based. It doesn't encourage anything but people trying to ninja loot things and avoid combat. Please, look at my post as a whole and complete solution. The armaments are no longer a part of it. Open your mind!

 

as for your "ticking valor" idea. give a buff each time you enter combat. the buff will start awarding you 2 valor per minute for the next 5 minutes. at the end of that time, you lose the buff and will not get it back until you enter combat again. it also expires on death. that keeps the afk-botters from hiding under a rock like roaches and getting free valor.

 

oh and for the love of god get rid of the damned "quest log" tracking of objectives in the zone. again, a simple icon on the map would suffice, and probably get rid of the damned delays we all get when objectives change hands!

 

This last thought of yours is completely flawed and not thought out. If we were only to give people ticking valor when in combat, then the team with less people will always just be running in and dying. Again, you're worried about AFKers, so again I'll ask you to please read the final paragraph of my initial post more thoroughly.

 

It would take someone afk more than 4 times as long to gain the rewards of someone actually working, and even if they do get the rewards, they're going to suck so hard at PVP it won't matter. Worry less about them, and read carefully because this system provides them with FAR LESS than they are getting when they AFK through WZ matches.

 

I'll agree on one point - the map should clearly indicate the objective being owned by either side. We shouldn't need quests to do that.

Edited February 12, 2012 by WittyRaevyn

[Irenicus_Jon]

Would adding something like this improve your suggested system:

 

After each "defeat" (having their base taken over by the other side), the defeated side gets a stacking increase to their ticking valor (reset daily or after stack of X?). Do you think this would give the side with the smaller population (and getting defeated most of the time) a higher incentive to join the fight and not make them feel like they are getting farmed? Or does it sound exploitable?

[Demarcc]

Hoestly, all i can see happening is that the Imps would hold all the control points and get higher valor ticks constantly.

 

Sure being republic we could sneak around and take a point to get our daily / weekly done, but 30s after we took said point we'd be bailing to run away from the imp zerg that would be on route.

 

On the resets, we'd get south while the imp zerg swarmed down taking north then central then pushing us back to our base.

 

As a way for the imps to do thier dailys faster and get some valor for being in the zone while waiting for thier hutball warzones to pop its a great idear. For republic .. bler nothing to see here. Go in sneak around to get our 3 caps then stand in our base and queue for something else. Taxi out when the imp zerg arrives to get thier free merc comm's for taking our base and come back later.

 

Until they change the way populations cap in Ilum nothing will change. ATM new Ilum zones are created after 100 people or so get in the zone. This does nothing to aid in balance since 80 inps vs 20 republic is still a lose / lose for us. Cap the pops at 50 per side and we can talk .. until then, i'll only go to ilum early in the AM when theres maby 15 imps and 10 republic .. at least we stand a chance then.

[Wraithwarr]

It is a great idea! Doubtful they will listen World PVP in this game feels so tacked on and half baked sadly. This dev team is capable of a much better experience than this.

[Mcfree]

Just came back to Bump Witty's post here. Some great ideas everyone and nive job keeping it constructive.

[ilifus]

ilum is only one area, in order to fix it you need to open more wpvp special areas.

 

You might want to check my signature

[Samcuu]

No. I'm glad u are interested in fixing ilum but the faction imbalance is too much for your plan to work. Pubs are outnumbered, in order for me to get my daily done in your world I will have to get to ilum at 3am when nobody else is playing and hope I'm not out numbered. Yeah ticking faction is a good idea exept when you consider that the sith are getting that faction plus the kills and tokens we would be getting at a much higher rate...I think things would work better if there were just multiple planets that worked the same as ilum. Add a couple planets and that will thin out the numbers of people on ilum...

[MrXen]

Constructive criticism/suggestion is nice to see (and rare around here). Five stars op. Good ideas in there.

[dexterryu]

I like many of your ideas and mechanics. The only thing that I see as a negative is that it is going to still give the faction with the greater numbers an advantage.

 

The way you have it I see that advantage growing over time (not too dissimilar to what is happening now). My server is a good example. Empire has a huge number advantage, so they almost always win. This means that they get more bags, dailies, commendations, which means they also get more gear faster. So right now, not only do they have a numeric advantage, the also have a sizable gear advantage.

 

Anyhow... I believe for your idea to work they need to come up with some sort of bolster (or Tenacity, to steal from WoW) that goes up and down based on how outnumbered a particular team is.

 

Ultimately, the best matches, are the ones that are two equally matched sides. Some of the best matches I have in WZ are when I'm running with a premade group against another premade group.

[WittyRaevyn]

A lot of people have posted regarding faction imbalance.

 

I completely agree with you. Bioware needs to address the issue of faction imbalance. My suggestion to them for doing this is twofold:

 

1) 3 Free server transfers (restricted based on population, ie; no more imps can go to a server with XX% over-population)

2) The ability to view the Republic and Imperial level 50 population from the server selection screen

 

That being said - my suggestion doesn't ever fully solve the population problem. To those of you saying "well great, I can do my dailies but it's back to the same old"...I must ask you - wouldn't this system be better and more advantageous to BOTH sides currently? Wouldn't it be better to have it this way than how it currently sits?

 

Someone else said "Oh we just need to add more planets to balance it out so people can go to a less populated planet". First off, do you think creating an entire planet is something easy? It takes a lot of manpower to do something like that. Aside from that, it STILL doesn't solve your population problem. Do you think the Imps won't follow you wherever you go? I don't find that solution viable.

 

Another person directed me to their World PvP fix thread. I read through your posts, and all subsequent posts. Your ideas are sound and make sense, however I must ask you - do you think it is feasible? How many man hours of development time would be needed to create all of the systems you are proposing? Do you think Bioware is willing to create all of those things that you are asking for?

 

Again, I must ask folks to try to think about this in terms of the EXISTING systems within Ilum, and using the least amount of resources possible.

 

I truly appreciate all of the feedback and don't want to discourage it. What I would like to see more of, however, are suggestions that work within the current game design and don't require hundreds of developer hours to bring to fruition.

 

The main positive point of my suggestion is that it takes very little action on part of the developers and would, I feel, be a STEPPING STONE for Bioware that they could implement VERY SOON while they spend time working on larger scale improvements to world PVP. I definitely acquiesce that my suggestion is not a full scale world pvp solution, but simply a "First Step" to addressing an issue that sorely needs IMMEDIATE attention.