Why X-SERVER anything is a BAD IDEA

[Samaul]

Community Q&A: Feb 10th 2012

 

Gabe Amatangelo: Not until we introduce cross server queuing. If we were to allow players to choose their Warzone before they could queue across servers, then it would negatively affect how often every player would see a Warzone – and for every player that loves a certain Warzone there is another player that hates it. The population would end up divided by their Warzone choice, negatively affecting the time it would take for a specific Warzone to become available for anyone. With cross server queuing we will still have a preference to match players of the same server, but those players who choose specific preferences such as these will likely end up in a match with players in the larger Wargroup.

 

 

Lets look at the results of x-server warzone and flashpoint queues in games like WoW and RIFT.

 

• X-server queues create an anonymous mini-game where players sit in a central hub such as carrick station and wait for queues while trolling open chat. Players level their characters through anonymous queues without experiencing either their storyline or class quests.
   
   
  
• Upon entering the warzone or flashpoint, many players use the anonymity offered by the anonymous x-server pug groups to engage in the worst kind of behavior. They insult, demean and degrade players from other servers, knowing there will be no consequences from the community on their own server or even their own guild.
   
   
  
• X-server qeues encourage exploiting, power leveling, valor and gear farming, account swapping, afk-botting and ultimately real money trading. Players with extra money pay power leveling services to farm the best pve and pvp gear. This has happened in every game I have played with x-server queues.
   
  

  I want to re-emphasize that x-server queues will help power leveling services, not legitimate players the most. I just did a search for SWTOR power leveling on the web. I found one website that offers the following services
   
  

  • Basic Power Leveling
    
  • Valor Power Leveling
    
  • Crew Skill Power Leveling
    
  • Commendation
    
  • SWTOR Dark/Light Points
    
  • Part Time Powerleveling
    

  All you will be doing by adding x-server queues is enabling the providers of these services by allowing them to operate 24/7.

   

  [*]X-server queues ultimately destroy communities by bypassing the self-policing nature of closed server communities. Players who engage in bad behavior such as trolling and griefing are ostracized and punished on closed server communities. In an x-server environment they disappear behind the cloud of anonymity. Players are prevented from getting to know others from the opposite or same faction and engaging in friendly competition. There is a lot to be said for knowing your enemies and your friends.

 

If the purpose of x-server queues is to allow players on low pop servers access to content, there is a simple solution, allow free transfers off of low pop servers. Problem solved.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Samaul

[Dreossk]

Current boxed warzones are already anonymous. World PvP is absent because of the way the planets are designed.

[Samaul]

Current boxed warzones are already anonymous. World PvP is absent because of the way the planets are designed.

 

This is completely false on Ven Zallow.

[SpiffyJr]

Then check the "I want to queue against my own server" option and have it your way.

 

I don't have a comment on most of your post but I will say that real world trading was happening long before x-server queues were even thought of.

Edited February 11, 2012 by SpiffyJr

[Samaul]

Then check the "I want to queue against my own server" option and have it your way.

 

Apparently, you want your pug warzones and flashpoints to be filled with bots from power leveling services who dont speak english or dont answer at all but contribute little or nothing to the group.

 

Adding x-server queues will be a boon to power leveling services, enabling them to operate 24/7.

[ZedFighter]

I think these developers can see what the negative ramifications are via other games, namely WoW. I'm sure any kind of grouping system will NOT include cross server. They seem to be smarter than that. If they prove me wrong, well, the game and community will suffer for it. And besides, the technical hurdles with cross server are much, much greater vs local server. And they really don't need more problems at this point.

[Marmerus]

Lets look at the results of x-server warzone and flashpoint queues in games like WoW and RIFT.

 

• X-server queues create an anonymous mini-game where players sit in a central hub such as carrick station and wait for queues while trolling open chat. Players level their characters through anonymous queues without experiencing either their storyline or class quests.

There is already a two places like that. Imperial Fleet and Republic fleet. Lots of people sitting around waiting and trolling general chat looking for people.
Even with X-server LFD tool it will decrease the trolling.
 

Upon entering the warzone or flashpoint, many players use the anonymity offered by the anonymous x-server pug groups to engage in the worst kind of behavior. They insult, demean and degrade players from other servers, knowing there will be no consequences from the community on their own server or even their own guild.

Today its worse than in WoW and we have this forum to prove it. More posts about ninjas and whatever.
You can't do anything against other players even if they play on same server as you. And if you try everyone is just going to tell you to shut up and put you on ignore. You LOSE more than the ninja.
 

X-server qeues encourage exploiting, power leveling, valor and gear farming, account swapping, afk-botting and ultimately real money trading. Players with extra money pay power leveling services to farm the best pve and pvp gear. This has happened in every game I have played with x-server queues.

We already have this so the change is not going to make any difference.
 

X-server queues ultimately destroy communities by bypassing the self-policing nature of closed server communities. Players who engage in bad behavior such as trolling and griefing are ostracized and punished on closed server communities. In an x-server environment they disappear behind the cloud of anonymity. Players are prevented from getting to know others from the opposite or same faction and engaging in friendly competition. There is a lot to be said for knowing your enemies and your friends.

See my reply earlier. This game has worse community than WoW just because of this.

If anything solo quests and guilds is destroying the community. People will alienate themselves from the rest of the population on the server by joining guilds and only playing with guild mates.

Get your facts straight and stop trolling!

[chaconjc]

I don't mind cross server PvP to be honest and the only problem I have with cross server Flashpoints is if it's like WoW and people are rude to each other and have no problem rolling need on everything even if they don't need the item. Now I will be running mostly with guildees and friends but I can certainly understand both sides. I think the first thing they need is a flashpoint key of any kind so people can quest while waiting to enter a flashpoint imo.

[Leverage]

the ONLY x server queue that makes any sense is rated wzs. it is premade versus premade and you will need more variety than the premades on your own server.

 

other than that, i really enjoy pvping in ormal wzs and seeing allies and enemies in the open world and remembering the, from prevus wz matches.

[Sirsri]

I could see cross server pvp warzones if they bundled up teams from each server. Then I get to know people on my server, but there's an inherent unknown in who you're up against.

[Samaul]

I think these developers can see what the negative ramifications are via other games, namely WoW. I'm sure any kind of grouping system will NOT include cross server. They seem to be smarter than that. If they prove me wrong, well, the game and community will suffer for it. And besides, the technical hurdles with cross server are much, much greater vs local server. And they really don't need more problems at this point.

 

Added quote and link from Dev Q&A.

[HalusW]

Well said OP.

[Samaul]

I don't mind cross server PvP to be honest and the only problem I have with cross server Flashpoints is if it's like WoW and people are rude to each other and have no problem rolling need on everything even if they don't need the item. Now I will be running mostly with guildees and friends but I can certainly understand both sides. I think the first thing they need is a flashpoint key of any kind so people can quest while waiting to enter a flashpoint imo.

 

Again, all that x-server queues will add to the game is more bots from power leveling services. Expect there to be 1-3 power leveling service bots in every x-server warzone. They will be there 24/7.

[Emeda]

I think these developers can see what the negative ramifications are via other games, namely WoW. I'm sure any kind of grouping system will NOT include cross server. They seem to be smarter than that. If they prove me wrong, well, the game and community will suffer for it. And besides, the technical hurdles with cross server are much, much greater vs local server. And they really don't need more problems at this point.

 

Well it looks like PVP is now getting a cross server system so apparently they do see it and dont care. Now all the leveling bots will be in warzones.

 

Once they add it into warzones you know they are going to add it into flashpoints. My bet is they are actually already working on it for flashpoints.

[Samaul]

I could see cross server pvp warzones if they bundled up teams from each server. Then I get to know people on my server, but there's an inherent unknown in who you're up against.

 

Power leveling services and their bots have shown themselves to be very clever and highly adaptable in other games. They always find ways to afk, bot or respond from chat scripts. They can be easy to spot but nearly impossible to eradicate from x-server queues.

[Knewt]

Again, all that x-server queues will add to the game is more bots from power leveling services. Expect there to be 1-3 power leveling service bots in every x-server warzone. They will be there 24/7.

That's a pretty weak excuse. The bots are already in WZs.

[Illuziun]

I used to be one of the anti cross server people. Then I realized the communities of MMO's will never be like they were 8 years ago. The internet has turned everyone into trolls, and a cross server LFG system isn't going to change anything.

[Darkhosis]

Lets look at the results of x-server warzone and flashpoint queues in games like WoW and RIFT.

 

• X-server queues create an anonymous mini-game where players sit in a central hub such as carrick station and wait for queues while trolling open chat. Players level their characters through anonymous queues without experiencing either their storyline or class quests.
   
   
  
• Upon entering the warzone or flashpoint, many players use the anonymity offered by the anonymous x-server pug groups to engage in the worst kind of behavior. They insult, demean and degrade players from other servers, knowing there will be no consequences from the community on their own server or even their own guild.
   
   
  
• X-server qeues encourage exploiting, power leveling, valor and gear farming, account swapping, afk-botting and ultimately real money trading. Players with extra money pay power leveling services to farm the best pve and pvp gear. This has happened in every game I have played with x-server queues.
   
   
   
  
• X-server queues ultimately destroy communities by bypassing the self-policing nature of closed server communities. Players who engage in bad behavior such as trolling and griefing are ostracized and punished on closed server communities. In an x-server environment they disappear behind the cloud of anonymity. Players are prevented from getting to know others from the opposite or same faction and engaging in friendly competition. There is a lot to be said for knowing your enemies and your friends.
  

 

If the purpose of x-server queues is to allow players on low pop servers access to content, there is a simple solution, allow free transfers off of low pop servers. Problem solved.

 

Prove one thing on your list as fact. You can't.

 

You're having fantasies of WOW in its glory days when there really was a server based server community. Those days are long long gone and were created by the severe honor grind not being server centric.

 

Back then you had the PVPers standing around all day in Iron forge grinding honor. There was nothing to do but talk and chat. It isn't like that anymore. People hop in game do a few WZ's without saying anything to others. Without that NEED to PVP 8hrs+ a day people don't do it.

 

This thing you and many others are holding onto is just a myth. Seriously how can you say there is this sense of community? People very very rarely use General chat to just chat. If you start using General chat just to meet people you run the risk of being mass ignored. Welcome to the internet 2012.

 

You also have this notion that cross server LFD causes people into being bad. That is also another myth. That dbag you met in a PUG LFG. Guess what? They were a dbag long before you ever met them. People do not change their base behavior just because they are semi anonymous. You aren't even really anonymous as you could easily trash another person from another server as well as your own.

 

The tools are just a modern convenience. Especially for a game as casual as this one. People want the ability to log in quickly and use their valuable playtime playing instead of LFG.

 

As for powerleveling- If someone is going to powerlevel they are going to do it anyway. No stopping them. Really what's it to you if they ruin the entire game for themselves?

 

Credits in this game are very easy to make and it isn't very profitable for gold farmers. How many gold farmer emails have you received in SWTOR? How much gold spam do you see? Exactly none because they have a strong auto ban system. Without trial accounts it's hard for farmers to get a foothold.

 

Put your fears to bed and let progress come. I've played both Rift and WOW. The cross server tools have brought nothing but POSITIVE experiences. It did not cause some mass outbreak of dbaggery.

[Hauvarn]

Current boxed warzones are already anonymous. World PvP is absent because of the way the planets are designed.

 

yeah if you know territo you play on veela lol

[Gohlar]

Why X-Server is a good idea:

 

People get to play the game.

[Samaul]

That's a pretty weak excuse. The bots are already in WZs.

 

Weak excuse? x-server queues greatly increase the pool for warzones and flashpoints. Along with those increased numbers will come many more bots and drones working for power leveling services.

 

I have heard some terrible stories about how the drones who work for power leveling services are treated in certain countries. There is a human cost for the drones employed by power leveling service to play others characters. I am not exaggerating when I call some power leveling services out for exploitation of their workers and violations of human rights. Are these practices that BioWare as a company wishes to turn a blind eye to?

[Gohlar]

Sam, I'd rather just play the game sometimes. Fighting against people having that option is short sighted. Pretending it has this huge impact is just silly.

[Ansultares]

I said in the last thread with this same title that cross-server might work for premade queues.

 

Not like it matters; fully cross-server queues inc, along with AFKers, intentional feeders, etc.

 

That's a pretty weak excuse. The bots are already in WZs.

Are they? That sucks. Maybe they could remove warzone rewards just for showing up. Edited February 11, 2012 by Ansultares

[Samaul]

Prove one thing on your list as fact. You can't.

 

You're having fantasies of WOW in its glory days when there really was a server based server community. Those days are long long gone and were created by the severe honor grind not being server centric.

 

Back then you had the PVPers standing around all day in Iron forge grinding honor. There was nothing to do but talk and chat. It isn't like that anymore. People hop in game do a few WZ's without saying anything to others. Without that NEED to PVP 8hrs+ a day people don't do it.

 

This thing you and many others are holding onto is just a myth. Seriously how can you say there is this sense of community? People very very rarely use General chat to just chat. If you start using General chat just to meet people you run the risk of being mass ignored. Welcome to the internet 2012.

 

You also have this notion that cross server LFD causes people into being bad. That is also another myth. That dbag you met in a PUG LFG. Guess what? They were a dbag long before you ever met them. People do not change their base behavior just because they are semi anonymous. You aren't even really anonymous as you could easily trash another person from another server as well as your own.

 

The tools are just a modern convenience. Especially for a game as casual as this one. People want the ability to log in quickly and use their valuable playtime playing instead of LFG.

 

As for powerleveling- If someone is going to powerlevel they are going to do it anyway. No stopping them. Really what's it to you if they ruin the entire game for themselves?

 

Credits in this game are very easy to make and it isn't very profitable for gold farmers. How many gold farmer emails have you received in SWTOR? How much gold spam do you see? Exactly none because they have a strong auto ban system. Without trial accounts it's hard for farmers to get a foothold.

 

Put your fears to bed and let progress come. I've played both Rift and WOW. The cross server tools have brought nothing but POSITIVE experiences. It did not cause some mass outbreak of dbaggery.

 

My first experience with power leveling services was in wow classic. I was one of the top pvpers on my server, on my way to grand marshal when the power leveling services came. In just one week, the amount of honor required to rank up went from 500,000 up to more than one million. Players were paying power leveling services to keep their characters online 24/7. It was obvious that they were not playing their own characters. I had a great bg pvp group going. Within two weeks it was gone because no one could rank up anymore.

 

I reported the exploiters, gave evidence to blizzard, they did nothing. I rerolled on another server, then x-server queues came. Everyone knew that the top ranked players were using power leveling services. X-server queues made the problem much, much worse.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Samaul

[Knewt]

Weak excuse? x-server queues greatly increase the pool for warzones and flashpoints. Along with those increased numbers will come many more bots and drones working for power leveling services.

They also reduce queue times for regular players, especially if the server has a severe faction imbalance.

 

I have heard some terrible stories about how the drones who work for power leveling services are treated in certain countries. There is a human cost for the drones employed by power leveling service to play others characters. I am not exaggerating when I call some power leveling services out for exploitation of their workers and violations of human rights. Are these practices that BioWare as a company wishes to turn a blind eye to?

Now you've gone off the deep end. Leveling services are against the TOS. Bioware does not support them or turn a blind eye towards them. Unfortunately, Bioware can't do much to eliminate them. Every MMO in existence has tried to get rid of them and failed. The real culprit and people you should be lambasting are those that purchase the leveling services. They are the real problem, not Bioware or x-server queues.