Whats with the jet charge obsession?

[Varicite]

The problem is they aren't trying to push it as a tank spec, they are trying to push it as THE spec.

 

Post, after post, after post is people advocating how its the only viable PVP spec and that jet charge is mandatory.

 

Everything I've read lately in this forum points to there being 3 main viable specs, which is Taugrim's "Iron Fist", the Parakeet, and full (Thermal Det) Pyro.

 

I don't think anyone's trying to push the Parakeet as "the" spec, it's just a very solid pvp tank build. Lately it seems like more and more are moving over to the Iron Fist spec.

 

Personally, I use a variation of the Run 'n Gun spec listed in Taugrim's stickied guide.

 

You can play however you like, there are plenty of viable options for PT, unlike a lot of other classes.

[Eroex]

Everything I've read lately in this forum points to there being 3 main viable specs, which is Taugrim's "Iron Fist", the Parakeet, and full (Thermal Det) Pyro.

 

I don't think anyone's trying to push the Parakeet as "the" spec, it's just a very solid pvp tank build. Lately it seems like more and more are moving over to the Iron Fist spec.

 

Personally, I use a variation of the Run 'n Gun spec listed in Taugrim's stickied guide.

 

You can play however you like, there are plenty of viable options for PT, unlike a lot of other classes.

 

so 2 with jet charge being mandatory... then me advocating one that doesn't require it...

Edited February 12, 2012 by Eroex

[tkdlauri]

How is this thread so long ether you like having jet charge or you dont.... If people are saying that jet charge is a must but you never use it and can use the skill in a better way for you then good on you. Just because people say those specs are the best doesnt mean they are.

[Lhel]

You can at least per today spec more or less as you like. You don't have elitistjerks publishing the weekly dps-**** spec. I'm done being a raider, I don't really feel I gain anything from operations or raids.

 

I'll be enjoying this game until you see the normal evolution of dps-meters and "optimal specs". May it never come.

 

As for Jet Charge, I like it, but don't see it as a must, more a personal preference.

[BlazingShadow]

I'd just like to chime in: I was Shieldtech (altered Iron Fist temp) 'till a week or so ago.

 

THe problem with jet charge is that if you jet up a level (huttball) you are easily knocked back down if you cannot get into position on the ramps.

 

Yeah, I know: just make sure your back is facing the walkway.

 

Sometimes A) that is not an option as the enemy reacts too fast to prep right away

B) the class knocking you back has an attatched root to the ability (sorcs) thuss forcing you to rely on lolranged abilities (only viable as CP) until you can run into position.

 

I wouldn't praise Jet Charge's gap-closing capability religiously... it is a good ability... but it can be countered. Plus it saves you what, four seconds (from 30m out) of running toward the target? As an AP you can spare 4secs before unleashing the fires of hell and not have to worry about jknockbacks (HO)

Edited February 12, 2012 by BlazingShadow

[neeman]

Are you seriously comparing DPS numbers for PvP?

 

PROTIP: DPS numbers are for PvE. You clearly have no idea what PvP is all about.

 

A slightly delayed 3-5k damage attack on a 15 second cooldown allows for much more controlled burst than.....about 1% crit and about 30 bonus damage? It also pops stealthers back out if you don't catch them with a stealth scan. It is, in every way, better for PvP than 9% more aim.

 

This spec-talk is not quite getting the full picture. In his current build he has Burnout fully talented but still needs 2 talents to hit 30 in the tree, in which case dropping Aim for TD would also net him Rapid Venting. I'd have to intuitively agree that his DPS would be much better served by dropping the Aim at that point.

 

But he's doing the non-TD Pyro build incorrectly, really. Burnout, as a sub-30% execute talent, is expensive and meant for PvE raid bosses where casting IM multiple times makes sense. In PvP, I find in the vast majority of encounters that a double cast of IM is almost never worthwhile, as the target will die or be healed before its fully ticks -- not to mention that giving up your burst DPS for a very heat intensive DoT at a probably crucial point of the fight can change the momentum against you quite decidedly.

 

A non-TD Pyro build correctly done (8/8/25) gives up Burnout for Prototype Cylinders and Hot Iron, swapping the execute talent for a +6% buff to Flame Burst. Both builds get +3% Tech Crit chance, though with the points in Shield Tech tree being the same, it's about a +4% Tech Crit for the non-TD Pyro.

 

At least, this is how I justify playing an 8/8/25 as opposed to going fully up the Pyro tree. A non-TD Pyro still has access to Explosive Dart, after all.

 

You know, having typed all that out, I realize that the optimal TD build gets Prototype Cylinders, so the trade off is actually:

 

Non-TD Pyro:

1) +9% Aim (~+1% crit chance)

2) +6% to Flame Burst

3) +2% to all Fire Effects

 

TD Pyro:

1) 30% execute buff to CGC and IM

2) +3% Tech crit chance

3) Access to Thermal Detonator.

 

So the real question is whether to favor a flat ~+10% boost to our nuke or to increase our burst with TD. Not sure, really.

 

Edit: Oh, yea... I see this thread is about jet charge... well, like Hydraulic Overrides for AP, it's just the best ability in its tree.

Edited February 12, 2012 by neeman

[Tsaak]

Why do i need guard when i can get the same amount of medals with taunt and AOE taunt?

 

Why do I need jet charge when I can get to targets just fine when i pick my battles correctly, so i cant jump up a level, who cares position yourself correctly in the first place and it doesn't matter.

 

Some of us play, ya know, for more than just medal farming. Taunting does not provide nearly as much support to your team as guarding does.

 

Can you see the future? If not, I'm not sure how you're going to "position yourself correctly" to be within range when an enemy ball carrier gets pulled up a level or charges up a level.

 

if you have high sustained DPS over a long fight even if they have a healer they wont survive

 

I bet you put IM on all your targets because it boosts your sustained DPS too. In PvP, burst > "sustained DPS." Ask any healer what's easier to heal through.

 

This spec-talk is not quite getting the full picture. In his current build he has Burnout fully talented but still needs 2 talents to hit 30 in the tree, in which case dropping Aim for TD would also net him Rapid Venting. I'd have to intuitively agree that his DPS would be much better served by dropping the Aim at that point.

 

But he's doing the non-TD Pyro build incorrectly, really. Burnout, as a sub-30% execute talent, is expensive and meant for PvE raid bosses where casting IM multiple times makes sense. In PvP, I find in the vast majority of encounters that a double cast of IM is almost never worthwhile, as the target will die or be healed before its fully ticks -- not to mention that giving up your burst DPS for a very heat intensive DoT at a probably crucial point of the fight can change the momentum against you quite decidedly.

 

Yeah his spec makes no sense. You summed up the tradeoffs of the more intelligent 8/8/25 spec pretty well. I'd still argue that the burst potential (and ranged burst potential at that) is more valuable in PvP than a flat damage increase, but that's just my preference. Playing non-TD and using explosive dart I really miss that extra burst damage.

Edited February 13, 2012 by LexiCazam
Insult

[Taerrik]

Wait for it...

 

 

JET CHAAAAARGE!

[oakamp]

 

the trade off to get it makes it one of the worst abilities.

yes yes,

i chose PT cause i think i can jet charge and grape as a range DPS,

but BW let me down.

[Stabbitha]

The problem is they aren't trying to push it as a tank spec, they are trying to push it as THE spec.

 

Post, after post, after post is people advocating how its the only viable PVP spec and that jet charge is mandatory.

 

Who are 'THEY'?

 

A number of people in this thread have said that if you don't like it, don't spec in to it. I don't see the rocket charge mafia coming around and threatening to bust your kneecaps if you don't spec in to it...

 

You posted a provocative flamebait OP and you're surprised you're getting flamed?

[Eroex]

Some of us play, ya know, for more than just medal farming. Taunting does not provide nearly as much support to your team as guarding does.

 

I support my team by killing people and reducing the damage they take. I also medal farm because right now the game doesn't have a rated system so there isn't a reason to do anything else for me.

 

Can you see the future? If not, I'm not sure how you're going to "position yourself correctly" to be within range when an enemy ball carrier gets pulled up a level or charges up a level.

 

No, but I am situationally aware enough that i can make a reasonable educated guess on where the enemy is likely to go, or move to a high traffic area and wait for them to come, I could also move to intercept them as they are running across an area.

 

I bet you put IM on all your targets because it boosts your sustained DPS too. In PvP, burst > "sustained DPS." Ask any healer what's easier to heal through.

 

Yea, I do because... I don't know... maybe it puts a dot on them so I can follow it up with a rail shot... Also a sustained DPS with random spiky DPS is very hard to heal though. Once you get high enough, you aren't going to burst some one down in one rotation any way. The DPS in this game isn't that high they are keeping it that way for a reason, they don't want a repeat of spell cleave from wow.

 

Yeah his spec makes no sense. You summed up the tradeoffs of the more intelligent 8/8/25 spec pretty well. I'd still argue that the burst potential (and ranged burst potential at that) is more valuable in PvP than a flat damage increase, but that's just my preference. Playing non-TD and using explosive dart I really miss that extra burst damage.

 

Yea, that's why I said I'm using a PVE spec... also explosive dart? Why would you use that on anything but AOE, I can see it if every thing is on cooldown and they still are at ranged but definitively not in a standard PVP rotation. If you have a problem with Kresky's spec then take it up with him on his youtube page.

 

I can definitely see the merits of the 8/8/25 spec, but I'm still not going to respec for PVP when there isnt a need at all to do so.

 

You keep mixing up things you keep saying oh you need high burst to kill some one. You also say jet charge is mandatory for your play. You cant have it both ways, the jet charge spec has crap damage, and the good damage spec doesn't have jet charge.

 

So when you get there you hit them with a whiffle ball bat with the jet charge spec, or you hit them with a hammer with the DPS spec but you don't have jet charge.

 

You keep insulting me yet you really bring nothing to the discussion besides HERP DERP I LIKE 2 JET CHARGE!

[Gaeta]

Not a single damn person in this thread said a burst Pyro spec needs jet charge. Jet charge is a bad *** ability because it is a gap-closer, root, interrupt and awesome animation all rolled into one. What the hell isn't to like? Try playing a full shieldtech tank without using jet charge and see how well that works for you.

[Taraladarion]

Im using a PVE spec that I play just as well if not better than the parakeet clowns,

 

So its your spec or the clowns...... Chosing to play as a tank in a PvP environment (not many games gives you that option) makes me a clown, while you chose to play a dps build with a tank class (many games give you that options) is the good way to go?

 

Play the way you like, stop calling clowns everyone else that they play the way they like as that makes you a clown too...... in your way of thinking always.

[Eroex]

Can you quote me saying "jet charge is mandatory?" I'm not playing CP bud, I play pyro. I just saw an idiot make a really idiotic thread and thought hey, I should let that guy know he's an idiot. That's what I'm bringing to this "discussion."

 

You come on so strongly in favor of the skill you seem like you are in love with jet charge and you are obviously obsessed with the skill.

 

Then a address all the other points and you skip those to "i didn't say it was mandatory" then say in all the other posts "I just REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY like the skill so much that I would make multiple posts saying how great it is."

 

If you really like it so much to call me names and make multiple posts yet don't use it, why bother defending it so much. You clearly don't think the talent is worth spending all the points in order to gimp your damage that much.

 

I already said that I agree with you that it would be nice to have it as a baseline ability but for the past 2 months people have been pushing this obvious tank spec as the spec that makes the class awesome.

 

I've also said that it is a tank spec not THE spec as other posters and people have made it out to be.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Eroex

[Tsaak]

You come on so strongly in favor of the skill you seem like you are in love with jet charge and you are obviously obsessed with the skill.

 

Then a address all the other points and you skip those to "i didn't say it was mandatory" then say in all the other posts "I just REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY like the skill so much that I would make multiple posts saying how great it is."

 

If you really like it so much to call me names and make multiple posts yet don't use it, why bother defending it so much. You clearly don't think the talent is worth spending all the points in order to gimp your damage that much.

 

I already said that I agree with you that it would be nice to have it as a baseline ability but for the past 2 months people have been pushing this obvious tank spec as the spec that makes the class awesome.

 

I've also said that it is a tank spec not THE spec as other posters and people have made it out to be.

 

I believe the post you just quoted states, quite clearly, my reason for defending the talent/spec.

 

I absolutely think it's worth spending the points necessary to gain jet charge if you choose to play a more utility/support role rather than a pure damage dealing role. I played CP for a very long time and switched to pyro because that's what the guild needed more in warzones.

 

I still play a valuable role in huttball matches as a pyro, but I don't have nearly as much capability to harass or stop highly mobile ball carriers. Even if a CP powertech is hitting the ball carrier with a "whiffle ball bat" as you say, he is still hitting the ball carrier, as opposed to a pyro powertech who often is left on a lower level to scratch his head and hope for the best. And that is why the skill is every bit as valuable and the spec every bit as excellent as us "jet charge obsessed" folks say it is.

[Xneco]

You fly across the screen and punch someone in the face.. what is there not like about that?

[Varicite]

Why is the OP arguing w/ everyone agreeing with him?

 

Everyone just keeps saying, sure, play Pyro if you want, you don't need Jet Charge for that.

 

OP: OMG I DON'T NEED JET CHARGE YOU CLOWNS, STOP SAYING I NEED IT.

 

...wat?

[Tsaak]

Why is the OP arguing w/ everyone agreeing with him?

 

Everyone just keeps saying, sure, play Pyro if you want, you don't need Jet Charge for that.

 

OP: OMG I DON'T NEED JET CHARGE YOU CLOWNS, STOP SAYING I NEED IT.

 

...wat?

 

Yeah there's not much rhyme or reason to the argument he's presenting (lol) in this thread. It's really just a "hey guys I want attention so I'm going to rip on a popular trend" thread that failed miserably.

 

I guess we were supposed to say, "Wow, you really opened our eyes Eroex....jet charge is terrible!"

[maschovy]

It's charge with a flame trail that ends in a superman punch....

 

The end.

[Sasheria]

I like Jet Charge. It is good in Huttball when the enemy is on different level (even 30m is hard to get to depending on WHICH level they are on.

 

I'm ShieldTech. that would explain why I like it

 

You don't have to like it. Hence it is a skill point base system instead of template. Personally I would love jetcharge be part of the skill like shoulder slam