Beiken Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) This skill has currently issues, it being one of the few baseline vanguard skills it is currently not very usable for any specs. It costs alot of ammo for very little damage, the only thing its really any usefull for is debuffing with the Shield Tech talent to get the 4% reduced damage debuff on several guys at once. Again its only really used by tanks since the damage it does per ammo is pretty pathetic and useless to use as any kind of aoe damage. My suggestion would be to remove the Storm talent, make it a baseline ability for Vanguards and replace it with Explosive Surge, then obviously remove Explosive Surge as a baseline ability and have it in the talent spot of Storm, give Explosive Surge some juicing up with either like a debuff, dot or maybe just remove some of the ammo cost add a cooldown but buff the damage. I think something needs to be done to the skill though. Any thoughts? Edited February 11, 2012 by Beiken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daross Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 IMO Storm is to powerful, to make it base line. .. .. hmm .. inq/cons got baseline speed... .. Screw balance. Storm for all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savish Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 IMO Storm is to powerful, to make it base line. .. .. hmm .. inq/cons got baseline speed... .. Screw balance. Storm for all! Yeah that would be unbalanced, but hey sorc/sages get force speed for no apparent reason so I say sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VragonBral Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 How about taking away the snare and making it a Talent, and it also reduces the cooldown and/or lowers the minimum distance? Have Harpoon as the 21 point skill, and fix its talent's to go into so you aren't just arbitrarily taking points into something useless till you can get Harpoon? But its going to be sad though if they ever do anything like that...means I can't shout "GET OVER HERE!" with my hybrid build anymore as I drag people into flame traps on Huttball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSmoke Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Taking the Harpoon away would kill a Vanguard. The choice that you can choose your fight or get someone TO you is just what our class needs to finish it off. I agree with the OP tho'. Explosive Surge is crap and needs a huge buff. Make it with a 12 seconds cooldown but giving a dot + 2000 damage. Why? Well, it's kind of like the grenade on the Smuggler | Agent, it's a filler move to deal AoE damage in between or to single a target for a good cost of energy. The only difference is that WE have to get into CQC to do that...to deal pitiful damage. And don't even start with "Well, it gets people out of stealth!" - While that is true, stealth scan is much more efficient, costs no ammo and looks better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daross Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 from tank perspective .. dont touch Explosive Sure. Damage maybe is not great or dmg/ammo effective, but its only reliable tool to initial catch fresh wave of adds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_coaltrain Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 What I don't understand is the CD on Charge abilities vs the Harpoon? Why 15 for one and 45 (plus you can still charge a full resolve bar but you can't harpoon one) for the other when they are basically the same thing? I do think storm should possibly be baseline with 30 sec CD and keep harpoon as is in that case or bring Harpoon to 15 sec CD. But 2 of the vanguard trees are primarily melee and I think more ways especially at earlier levels to close gaps makes more sense. Then of course tanking talents could improve storm's ability maybe ad AoE on land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryl Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 from tank perspective .. dont touch Explosive Sure. Damage maybe is not great or dmg/ammo effective, but its only reliable tool to initial catch fresh wave of adds. This. If you can't figure out how to use things, just don't use them but don't talk about removing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malvantyr Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 This. If you can't figure out how to use things, just don't use them but don't talk about removing them. Umm... he wanted to put it in the tank tree.... from a tank perspective, you still have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daross Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) @Malvantyr it was in response to : I agree with the OP tho'. Explosive Surge is crap and needs a huge buff. Make it with a 12 seconds cooldown but giving a dot + 2000 damage. Edited February 11, 2012 by Daross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xodos Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I told them several times during Beta that Explosive Surge was crap. Even specced into it the max dmg i've seen against strong mobs is 260-280. But once again Bioware does not listen. And the ammo expensive is not worth it you might get off say 4 before your completly out of ammo. so 280x4=1120? are you serious if you don't get stunned while trying to do it. We get a total of 3 stuns: 4 sec cryo gernade "if you want to waste two points to knock off 10 secs from 45 to 35 sec whopi". Nerol Surge PAOE stun 2.5 sec Stun? ***? SERIOUSLY? A freaking joke. 45 sec timer. 2 Points into Harpon for 3 sec stun. on a 35 sec timer. Vanguards have no ability in PVP to lock a target down all we are good for are fisherman. We throw a line out and bring a fish back for all the other sharks to kill. Bioware had a good skill build for the Vanguard before the 2nd to last beta was over but screwed it all up. Thanks Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beiken Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I'm not saying to buff it flat out, but rather rework it, so it makes more sense to put it into your rotation while tanking. But honestly also make it so DPS can actually use it, I play a tank but it's really silly seeing how few abilities a DPSer get from the baseline skills on the Vanguard class compared to the Commando for instance. As for Storm I really don't see the huge problem with it being OP as baseline, compare it to the jedi knights charge and we spend so much time in the animation of it, it is kinda silly. And again the Jedi Guardian gets charge and force push without having to spec for it. I think that Storm makes alot more sense to have baseline with a 15sec cd then the Harpoon on a 45sec cd, and perhaps even put harpoon in the tanking tree if its gonna be an issue with huttball? Edited February 12, 2012 by Beiken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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