How to stop leavers in warzones without a stupid penalty

[Aethyrprime]

You forgot to answer my question:

 

What is the incentive to stay in a losing group after you have full T3 and dont need valor, comms and daily quests anymore?

 

What is the incentive to play at all if you have all your T3 gear and don't need valor, comms or daily quests anymore?

 

Oh that's right FUN!

[skyflash]

What is the incentive to play at all if you have all your T3 gear and don't need valor, comms or daily quests anymore?

Oh that's right FUN!

 

Hahaha people playing for fun.... then we wouldnt have leavers now, would we?

Fun for those people is being in the winning group.

 

So how are you going to stop people leaving BGs after they have full T3?

 

Or do you believe they will magically start playing BGs to the end, although they know they gonna lose?

[Apocalypse-]

What is the incentive to play at all if you have all your T3 gear and don't need valor, comms or daily quests anymore?

 

Oh that's right FUN!

 

I agree. However, I had fun before I had my T3 or even my T2 gear. I had fun in beta before Expertise gear was even readily available.

 

However, your solution does NOTHING to stop leavers in matches where they don't have their daily/weekly.

 

And we're back to having a lockout timer be the best solution to leavers...

[Aethyrprime]

Hahaha people playing for fun.... then we wouldnt have leavers now, would we?

Fun for those people is being in the winning group.

 

So how are you going to stop people leaving BGs after they have full T3?

 

Or do you believe they will magically start playing BGs to the end, although they know they gonna lose?

 

Irrelevant. This topic is only dealing with progression. Penalties do nothing to stop leavers either because they will just toon swap or do something else. The best thing you can do is not suck and hope people want to stay on your team. But again with the straw man angle. Let's not forget the issue here. PRO EFFORT vs PRO AFK. You support PRO AFK. I support PRO EFFORT. B&W Baby.. B&W..

 

See below:

 

That's a great way to lose subscriptions let's force people to play with baddies or lose out on what they are intrested in... if the happens ill instantly unsub and I don't even. Leave often

 

So Skyflash are you telling me that in the flip side of players willing to leave if a penalty is applied are you going to leave if no penalty is applied and you had to actually work to complete your daily vs just afk for credit?

Edited February 12, 2012 by Aethyrprime

[ellrochell]

the problem with giving leavers a penalty is that people like me who dont mean to will get punished! If i get thrown in to hutball late for some reason i cant leave the rest area before my deserter time runs out because for reason its counting down while my game is still on the loading screen i went in and out of a warzone ten times in a row for the same game!! not to mention you always end up back at the imperial fleet. I do think this might be down to my internet connection but surely the game can pick up when you cant move your player yet.

[skyflash]

Let's not forget the issue here. PRO EFFORT vs PRO AFK. You support PRO AFK. I support PRO EFFORT. B&W Baby.. B&W..

 

So Skyflash are you telling me that in the flip side of players willing to leave if a penalty is applied are you going to leave if no penalty is applied and you had to actually work to complete your daily vs just afk for credit?

 

Haha you are PRO rewarding people with T3 for zerging but not fixing leavers at all and I am PRO fixing leavers and afkers with a trusted, known to work game mechanic, thats the only black and white i see.

 

If my system is applied you cant go afk more than once cause you will just get a temporary ban for it, just like leavers do.

 

As I am not playing for rewards, I dont care about rewards. I play for fun. I dont care if I can do my dailys or not, I do care if I lose due to being 5 vs 8 though... I just hate losing.

[Trineda]

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Thank you!

[Aethyrprime]

I kind of feared that. Well that's unfortunate.

 

It's one of the factors I've taken in to consideration before I posted the suggestion I did. I am tired of carrying afkers to victories or sticking around for a team that's farming medals rather than accomplishing objectives. Armed with the knowlege of how system designs work I proposed a system which encourages player participation in objectives and actively engaging in pvp like behavior to progress rather than a punishment system for no reason which just hurts the innocent guy who would never leave on purpose.

 

 

I know that feature, but I did not give you one star. That would be too much for this thread anway. Also, I wouldn't even waste my time. I am just writing here cause I am waiting for PvP to open.

 

And you are funny - in a sad way.

 

Anyway, I am fine.. I know my idea works, cause its being used by a lot of MMO games out there. And I know yours doesn't.. also, its not used anywhere, guess why.

 

So I win. Twice.

You lose twice because none of those games have dailies that reward gear progression based solely on a victory. Also, people still leave games in all of those mmos you cite which means the system is ineffective even without added incentive's of needing a victory for progression.

 

 

If my system is applied you cant go afk more than once cause you will just get a temporary ban for it, just like leavers do.

Wrong. Your system doesn't even talk about how to "DETECT" an afker.. so how on any planet could it fix it? An AFKer isn't a person who is literally getting flagged as afk and booted out which it already does. I am talking about the person that sits still doing nothing essentially could be watching tv and tapping forward once every few minutes, or even better using a 3rd party macro keyboard or script? Those things keep you from "Anti-idling" which prevents the system from *gasp* detecting they are AFK.. SO you are specifically stating you want to punish the guy that takes to long to log in and gets flagged as afk? Like the one that just posted above you? Get your facts straight, pick a topic to argue for and then build your case. You are not even making straw man arguments that make sense compared side by side.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Aethyrprime

[skyflash]

Wrong. Your system doesn't even talk about how to "DETECT" an afker.. so how on any planet could it fix it? An AFKer isn't a person who is literally getting flagged as afk and booted out which it already does. I am talking about the person that sits still doing nothing essentially could be watching tv and tapping forward once every few minutes, or even better using a 3rd party macro keyboard or script? Those things keep you from "Anti-idling" which prevents the system from *gasp* detecting they are AFK.. SO you are specifically stating you want to punish the guy that takes to long to log in and gets flagged as afk? Like the one that just posted above you? Get your facts straight, pick a topic to argue for and then build your case. You are not even making straw man arguments that make sense compared side by side.

 

I already explained how to detect AFKers, so go read.

Also, there are dozens of very good anti AFK methods in other games, just pick one.

 

You don't detect AFKers on login, thats just a friggin bug. You detect them by what they do, how they do it and how often... and you can take a hybrid approach as well, automatic and human filtered.

 

Lots of methods out there, many work well.... and if you are working in a game company, you should know them.

[Jimdor]

Ok, so the moderators closed my other thread that pertains to this topic. The reason i made a new thread is cause this one is 19 pages long, and full of people who just want to argue. But since i'm being forced to post here, i will.

 

Leavers have their reasons for leaving. They feel justified in that. The people who don't leave dislike that they leave without a penalty, they feel justified in that. I am part of the latter. An MMO is not supposed to be a game that doesn't take up time. You are supposed to put the time and effort in, and by leaving (for whatever reason you feel you should), you are not putting in the effort. That's just my opinion.

 

A deserter debuff is a dumb idea. Plain and simple. Can we all agree on that? If not, well, that's not what this thread is supposed to be about. I will propose a solution i think would work, that basically doesn't punish the leavers. it rewards those who stay.

 

The most common reason i have read for people leaving is that they dont' have time to sit in fail WZ's. Fair enough for them. I personally believe if you don't have time to put in, don't do it. It's not like you don't know there is a time requirement for MMO's. So, by putting a Deserter debuff, you are essentially pushing those players away, because they cannot queue again. They pay their 15$ a month, and they deserve to play. They just don't deserve to be rewarded the same as people who put the time and effort into every (or almost every) warzone they queue up for.

 

 

My Solution:

 

DNF %. Did not finish. If you do not finish, say, 50% of your games, you get 50% of the valor and commendations. That way you can leave your "fail" wz, queue up for another one, and maybe get your win. But you don't get all of your rewards, you just get to finish your dailies/weekly.

 

For those of us who have had problems with bugs/glitches, dont' start diminishing rewards until somebody has a DNF % of, say, 25%. These numbers are not concrete, just being used as an example for the idea.

 

This solution solves 2 things. People who dont' leave don't feel like they are being punished. They are being rewarded with higher valor/commendations than the chronic leavers. That should alleviate at least a bit of the QQ.

 

Secondly, it punishes the people who leave by requiring them to do more warzones to reach their goal of BM, without disallowing them to play the game they pay for.

 

As a note, before you all start flaming me as a QQ'er, or whatever, this is an idea. Don't want to have to play more warzones than everybody else? stay and play the warzone out, like everybody else. It's called balance, soemthing that everybody *****es about in MMO's.

[skyflash]

DNF %. Did not finish. If you do not finish, say, 50% of your games, you get 50% of the valor and commendations. But you don't get all of your rewards, you just get to finish your dailies/weekly.

 

This solution solves 2 things. People who dont' leave don't feel like they are being punished. They are being rewarded with higher valor/commendations than the chronic leavers.

 

This solves nothing.

 

The people that are leaving and causing the problem are the people that are working on T3 and do not need valor and commendation.

 

If you give them only 50% of those, they dont care, its neither a reward, nor a penalty.

 

You cannot reward people for playing the BG to the end, because for a rank 60 with a full T3 there is no reward anymore. He will leave, no matter what reward you give him for completing the BG.

 

The only thing you can do is punish unwanted behaviour by stopping them from doing it again, with a deserter debuff. This will effectively stop people from doing it again, because they CAN'T.

 

We can talk about it all day, but in the end, you have to STOP people from leaving and AFKing, and it will feel like a penalty.

[Jimdor]

This solves nothing.

 

The people that are leaving and causing the problem are the people that are working on T3 and do not need valor and commendation.

 

If you give them only 50% of those, they dont care, its neither a reward, nor a penalty.

 

You cannot reward people for playing the BG to the end, because for a rank 60 with a full T3 there is no reward anymore. He will leave, no matter what reward you give him for completing the BG.

 

The only thing you can do is punish unwanted behaviour by stopping them from doing it again, with a deserter debuff. This will effectively stop people from doing it again, because they CAN'T.

 

We can talk about it all day, but in the end, you have to STOP people from leaving and AFKing, and it will feel like a penalty.

 

 

Isn't there up to valor rank 100? without gear associated with it yet? They still need to collect valor to get there. And make it account-wide, not per toon. That way their Alts will be punished as well.

 

I'm not saying it's a perfect idea, i'm just trying to come up with something new. Perhaps you ahve something to add to this discussion? Or are you here to reject any idea you don't like?

[Aethyrprime]

@Skyflare No this is a discussion about fixing the daily/weekly quest. As I've said many times before penalties do not solve the problem of people leaving. They'll still leave, and instead of a new round starting you'll wait.. longer, and longer, and longer as more people get caught in the system whether on purpose or not and being punished. We've already established several people have problems which already get them penalized by missing out on the round, you suggest further penalizing innocent players.

 

Just admit it already, you afk in warzones!

[skyflash]

@Skyflare No this is a discussion about fixing the daily/weekly quest.

 

There is no need to fix the daily / weekly because they are perfectly fine and work as intended. Thank god, that was easy.

 

Isn't there up to valor rank 100? without gear associated with it yet? They still need to collect valor to get there. And make it account-wide, not per toon. That way their Alts will be punished as well.

 

I'm not saying it's a perfect idea, i'm just trying to come up with something new. Perhaps you ahve something to add to this discussion? Or are you here to reject any idea you don't like?

 

Yes there is valor rank 100, but its completely useless. At rank 60 you are done.

 

Well I can add to this discussion that you need to stop players from entering a new BG after they left one so that the current incentive for leaving (saving time) is gone.

 

HOW it is done is up to Bioware and open for discussion... 15 mins, 30 mins, only for the BG type you left, or for all, for the whole account, or just the char...

 

Can you rejoin a BG after you left? And how? Will other players fill up the BG?

 

There are lots of things to discuss, but let me say this one again:

 

If a player leaves a BG, he can't be allowed to enter a different BG right away. That's an absolute no go.

 

The rest is fine with me... as long as the leaving and AFKing stops.

Edited February 12, 2012 by skyflash

[Aethyrprime]

There is no need to fix the daily / weekly because they are perfectly fine and work as intended. Thank god, that was easy.

 

That is your opinion. One thankfully the majority of people I've talked with, nor myself share!

 

The system is not working as intended because you are complaining about people leaving. I've already established and many supporting posts in this thread have proven that people leave most often due to the broken daily/weekly quest system!

[RamzaBehoulve]

Jeez, the simplest fix is changing the quest to matches played instead of won. It's still going to take 30-60 min to get it done.

[Aethyrprime]

Jeez, the simplest fix is changing the quest to matches played instead of won. It's still going to take 30-60 min to get it done.

 

That's also in the OP as an alternative which was suggested by another person around page 5 I think.

[skyflash]

Jeez, the simplest fix is changing the quest to matches played instead of won. It's still going to take 30-60 min to get it done.

 

Yep, and players would still leave games they are going to lose after they have played their daily / weekly or after they have full T3 and dont care about dailys anymore.

 

So how does this fix anything?

 

I've already established and many supporting posts in this thread have proven that people leave most often due to the broken daily/weekly quest system!

 

It's quite clear that players like you are leaving because you are only looking to get your equipment the fastest way possible while screwing everyone else.

 

The solution though is not to make getting T3 trivial like you want, the solution is for example to reset the win counter if you leave a game in between so that it takes even longer if you leave a game.

 

In other words, as I have pointed out before (a million times):

 

Currently, people grinding T3 have a strong incentive to leave a game to save time. We have to take this incentive away by not letting them into another BG until the last one is over, even if they left. That way, they do not save time. Of course, a deserter debuff works the same way.

 

Fixed.

Edited February 12, 2012 by skyflash

[Caeliux]

This solves nothing.

 

The people that are leaving and causing the problem are the people that are working on T3 and do not need valor and commendation.

 

If you give them only 50% of those, they dont care, its neither a reward, nor a penalty.

 

You cannot reward people for playing the BG to the end, because for a rank 60 with a full T3 there is no reward anymore. He will leave, no matter what reward you give him for completing the BG.

 

The only thing you can do is punish unwanted behaviour by stopping them from doing it again, with a deserter debuff. This will effectively stop people from doing it again, because they CAN'T.

 

We can talk about it all day, but in the end, you have to STOP people from leaving and AFKing, and it will feel like a penalty.

 

This ^

 

No questions asked, no excuses.

 

You leave then you get a deserter buff, or if you disconnect and log back in and the Warzone is still in session, you must go back and play it out. If you disconnect and come back 10 minutes later and that Warzone is over, you got a deserter buff.

 

If you keep leaving, the deserter buff stacks, it will punish you for leaving constantly. If you can't understand the reason for the deserter buff then you have no reason to PvP in SWTOR. Rules need to be followed, and people need rules.

 

Bottom line,

 

A. L2P with others, even if you hate it.

B. Stop being selfish, play for teamwork not yourself.

C. Have fun, even if it kills you.

 

No excuses can be told or taken serious, people that leave or have computer problems need to get their act right. Other people that are playing by the rules and that want a full game with no leavers are tired of it, and the people that are geting into half games where it's a 100% loss are tired of it.

 

We need rules and we need deserter buffs asap.

 

No questions asked, no excuses.

[Smashbrother]

Jeez, the simplest fix is changing the quest to matches played instead of won. It's still going to take 30-60 min to get it done.

 

I agree this way would be better than getting 3 wins, but it doesn't solve the problem of people leaving. Still going to need a deserter debuff.

[Tyrias]

I don't know that I strictly need to re-iterate the first part of this, but when I ask the question as part of a longer post, this one is ALWAYS ignored, so here goes:

 

- Desertion penalty means people will stay and just AFK instead

- AFK penalty will mean that people put it the bare minimum to "not be" considered mechanically afk.

 

So we come to Skyflash's idea that players will decide who is AFK by voting. How is that actually going to work? If I wanted to, I could hang around with the pack, toss on the odd heal every now and again, and put in no real effort at all.

 

At no point am I AFK. Other players can see me doing stuff now and again, and generally moving with the game. How does anyone tell the difference between someone who is not trying, and some who is just aweful at the game?

 

Can someone PLEASE answer me that. Because as it stands, AFK voting won't work. It would be FAR too open to abuse and people will use this "anti-afk" feature to kick bad players. And it STILL wouldn't solve the problem of people not even trying. They'd do the bare minimum, and it wouldn't increase your chances of winning or make things any more fun.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Tyrias

[astrocanis]

C. Have fun, even if it kills you.

 

Ok - you owe me a new keyboard. =P

[Taerrik]

Track wins/losses

 

Leaving counts as a loss

[Rashne]

Just don't put in some penalty until I can avoid huttball, for like the rest of eternity. I hate that gd effing map so much I'm sick of it. I am so damn tired of facing off in Huttball all night because its same/same enabled and noone on the other side is queing.

 

I don't care if I can choose the others, or if I can veto huttball and stay in random.

[Primalooze]

 

So we come to Skyflash's idea that players will decide who is AFK by voting. How is that actually going to work? If I wanted to, I could hang around with the pack, toss on the odd heal every now and again, and put in no real effort at all.

 

At no point am I AFK. Other players can see me doing stuff now and again, and generally moving with the game. How does anyone tell the difference between someone who is not trying, and some who is just aweful at the game?

 

 

Why would anybody just spend time and mooch like that? i mean seriously...if your going to go afk then loose all credit for being there and potentiall suffer a penalty... if you are going to toss a heal afound every now and then then your not afk... so why not make the best of a fight...

 

your just trying to be difficult tbh...

 

warzones are seriously suffering with dropouts....i see no reason not to give a 1 hour debuff penalty for dropouts... and a vote button for afk's... the only people who loose out are people who really dont give a **** if they are spoiling others peoples enjoyment of the game....they deserve what they get to be honest...