Assault PVE Issues

[TheBizness]

Let me start with my background and goals.

 

I leveled as shield spec and did so without issue.

The plan was when I got to 50 to fill in whatever role was needed in my raid group.

I hit 50 a few days ago.

My guild needs dps.

I realize a vanguard may not be the greatest dps class, but lets see what I can do.

I went with the following spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMZMsZfI0bkGhrc.1

My current plan is run my dailies and flashpoints with a spec that is good for solo play as well as dps for raids.

I have been slowly switching my mods out with more dps oriented stats; up until 50 I was primarily grabbing tank gear.

I am now using plasma cell trying to do quests on Ilum.

I use Elara primarily as my companion.

 

Here are my current problems I am seeking assistance with.

 

Since respeccing, I am dying a lot.

Any group with an elite mob means certain death.

My strat consists of getting the mobs as bunched up as possible, nuking the trash asap and moving on to the harder mobs.

I have to blow all my cool downs to stay alive. Even that doesn't help sometimes.

 

Any suggestions?

Spec alterations?

Should I be using ion cell solo?

Different companion?

Anyone running into similar issues?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Biz

[Ranelagh]

I'm level 46 currently and have recently switched from Full Tactics to Full Assault spec. (0/6/ 31 to date). I am also finding that I have to very carefully plan for Elites. I have been using plasma cell, perhaps I should try this build with ion cell for elites to see if it goes any better

 

I am tempted to try Taugrim's Iron Fist spec (25/14/2) for some increased mitigation for PVE but I am enjoying the cooldown reset on HIB. Perhaps the Carolina Parakeet build (21/2/18) would work but I am not sure if that takes advantage of the Iron fist survivability skills.

[TheBizness]

I'm level 46 currently and have recently switched from Full Tactics to Full Assault spec. (0/6/ 31 to date). I am also finding that I have to very carefully plan for Elites. I have been using plasma cell, perhaps I should try this build with ion cell for elites to see if it goes any better

 

 

I was also considering using Ion Cell as well and will post my results when I get a chance to.

 

 

I am tempted to try Taugrim's Iron Fist spec (25/14/2) for some increased mitigation for PVE but I am enjoying the cooldown reset on HIB. Perhaps the Carolina Parakeet build (21/2/18) would work but I am not sure if that takes advantage of the Iron fist survivability skills.

 

Those specs look very interesting (and I have used similar hybrids), but unfortunately will not meet my raid dps needs.

 

I don't believe I mentioned this, but I am not interested in respeccing between raids and solo play.

 

You're thoughts do make me think that I may be trying a raid dps spec too early and maybe I need to go back to a more survivable build while I gear up...

 

Thank you for your input.

 

 

Biz

[va_wanderer]

Let me start with my background and goals.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMZMsZfI0bkGhrc.1

 

 

Here are my current problems I am seeking assistance with.

 

Since respeccing, I am dying a lot.

Any group with an elite mob means certain death.

My strat consists of getting the mobs as bunched up as possible, nuking the trash asap and moving on to the harder mobs.

I have to blow all my cool downs to stay alive. Even that doesn't help sometimes.

 

You might want to try something like this: http://www.ign.com/builds/star-wars-the-old-republic?class=vanguard&d=00000000000000002320000000000000102021300003223021232032

 

Soldier's Endurance is pretty much a derp defensive ability for Assault- you're getting more out of flat mitigation from Power Armor or even the mere 2% Defense from Nightvision Scope. Having Sweltering Heat lets you kite, which can make some encounters far less brutal. Having Static Field up means that the mob you're zorching is dealing less damage, Power Armor is reducing it efficiently as well, and in a pinch you can always Explosive Surge to temp-debuff a swarm before you get a chance to take out the trash, while Ion Pulses will keep a main target surpressed, snared, and be proccing Accelerator anyway.

 

What you can't do, just like most DPS is sit there playing tank for more than a short period of time via cooldowns- which Elara isn't going to help you with- as you're finding, you take damage faster than she recovers it. Get some extra firepower- Aric, 4X modified parts to offense, Yuun, whatever's most comfy. Or a tank (4X or Vik) and send them in to take the heat while you apply some of your own. Your DoT's will keep applying damage, after all. The former will help cut down the extra flak and draw off some fire, the latter will outright tank for you. I'm in the "shoot them first" school, so I usually go with a DPS companion.

 

Learn about using terrain cover. Don't feel bad about kiting a mob or playing hide-and seek with it as your companion blows it's head off- it means you're learning how all the DPSers feel when they peeled mobs off you tanking. Being focus fired is a Bad Thing in PvE, just like PvE. You can always taunt for aggro in a pinch if they're getting overwhelmed and give your buddy more time to whittle down the group- but if you do, make sure there's something between you and incoming fire.

 

Worst case, don't be afraid to hit and run. Blow the trash up, get clear, come back, pick off the stronger prey. Take a single elite in circles around a terrain object while peppering it with instants.

[TheBizness]

Wow, that's a lot of great info.

I will try your suggestions and let you know how I fair.

Thank you for your time and assistance.

[TheBizness]

I just wanted to update this thread.

 

I started using the following build.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsbZfhMbdGhM.1

 

I am now using Yuun while soloing.

 

This is working out a lot better for me.

 

Raid dps feels good and I am having less issues soloing.

 

Thanks,

 

Biz

[va_wanderer]

*nods* Welcome to the Giggle School of Vanguard DPS, enjoy your chain-HIBfest.

[Loveshock]

Empty. Edited February 14, 2012 by Loveshock

[TheBizness]

*nods* Welcome to the Giggle School of Vanguard DPS, enjoy your chain-HIBfest.

 

Heh, Nice description...that pretty much sums it up.

 

Hahaha, PEW, hahaha, PEW, hahaha, PEW

[Cavadus]

Stop using Plasma Cell.

 

Switch to Ion and do what you can with Asssault Spec. No matter what you're going to have throw 3 skillpoints in the garbage with "Superheated Plasma" so you can pick up "High Friction Bolts" and advance.

 

You gotta build your spec around HIB and focus on that. You only need the armor penetration for HIB out of Tactics and a few things from Shield Spec like "Steely Resolve" and whatever the 1-point talent is for for the snare on the Ion Cell proc.

 

The biggest mistake Vanguard's specced Assault make is running Plasma Cell.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Cavadus

[va_wanderer]

Stop using Plasma Cell.

 

Switch to Ion and do what you can with Asssault Spec. No matter what you're going to have throw 3 skillpoints in the garbage with "Superheated Plasma" so you can pick up "High Friction Bolts" and advance.

 

You gotta build your spec around HIB and focus on that. You only need the armor penetration for HIB out of Tactics and a few things from Shield Spec like "Steely Resolve" and whatever the 1-point talent is for for the snare on the Ion Cell proc.

 

The biggest mistake Vanguard's specced Assault make is running Plasma Cell.

 

I disagree, especially with Ion Cell damage being buggy to the tune of about 25% of what it should be. Nor, as a DPS do I want my threat increased by 50%, and I could care less about everything else but on the defense end. Good DPS pushes the threat, and 150% threat means I have to throttle back that much more when delivering. This makes me a bad DPSer on big mobs.

 

Plasma Cell with Assault is dedicated, constant DoT damage that stacks with Inc. Round. As DPS, that I like. Plus, he's also using it for PvE aside from raiding- and for that, being able to LOS/ranged kite reliably is a beautiful thing. Having to either spam weaksauce Hammer Shots for hopes of Ion Cell proccing or having to rush up to a melee mob to Stockstrike it (and get pounded on) doesn't help much.

[Cavadus]

Where to begin with this one? LOL

 

I disagree, especially with Ion Cell damage being buggy to the tune of about 25% of what it should be. Nor, as a DPS do I want my threat increased by 50%, and I could care less about everything else but on the defense end.

 

1) No one takes Ion Cell for the damage proc (and even if it was working they still wouldn't);

2) As a DPS solo or in PvP threat is meaningless, in group situations you can easily switch to plasma or your tank could simply not suck; and

3) The "defensive end" is why you use Ion Cell; to balance against a fully DPS spec'd build. It's a global 5% damage reduction, about 15-20% damage reduction from increased armor, the 20% shield chance, and then Guard which is amazing in both PvP and PvE.

 

Plasma Cell offers a DoT. Great.

 

Plasma Cell with Assault is dedicated, constant DoT damage that stacks with Inc. Round. As DPS, that I like. Plus, he's also using it for PvE aside from raiding- and for that, being able to LOS/ranged kite reliably is a beautiful thing. Having to either spam weaksauce Hammer Shots for hopes of Ion Cell proccing or having to rush up to a melee mob to Stockstrike it (and get pounded on) doesn't help much.

 

You know that when you have Ion Cell running all of your abilities work the same way and you can still be fully Assault Spec'd, right? Really, Ion Cell doesn't actually need any talents to be awesome-sauce though I do recommend the 1-point talent in Shield Spec for the snare on the proc.

 

Also, I'm not sure why you're fixated on Ion Cell's proc. It's meaningless and you don't need it for anything. You know that all of the stuff in Assault Spec requires a burning target and that Incendiary Round activates everything in Assault Spec outside of talents specifically related to enhancing Plasma Cell, right?

 

You don't need Plasma Cell to make Assault Spec work. In fact, in PvP running Plasma Cell is gimping yourself and in PvE you can easily switch between Plasma and Ion as MET-TC dictates.

 

The only situation an Assault Vanguard needs to worry about the threat from Ion Cell is in a group situation where the tank isn't doing his job.

 

I didn't say the OP needed to change his build, just change his cell. It seems like you took that to mean that he should switch to Shield Spec or something.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Cavadus

[Chariton]

It is not obvious but you can put 8 points in the first tier of assault spec, 2 points in the second tier and still be able to put points in the third tier. Check this 8/8/25 build. It is not much different but it is more powerful.

 

check out this build along with th excellent analysis for it.

[juanni]

Where to begin with this one? LOL

 

 

 

1) No one takes Ion Cell for the damage proc (and even if it was working they still wouldn't);

2) As a DPS solo or in PvP threat is meaningless, in group situations you can easily switch to plasma or your tank could simply not suck; and

3) The "defensive end" is why you use Ion Cell; to balance against a fully DPS spec'd build. It's a global 5% damage reduction, about 15-20% damage reduction from increased armor, the 20% shield chance, and then Guard which is amazing in both PvP and PvE.

 

Plasma Cell offers a DoT. Great.

 

 

 

You know that when you have Ion Cell running all of your abilities work the same way and you can still be fully Assault Spec'd, right? Really, Ion Cell doesn't actually need any talents to be awesome-sauce though I do recommend the 1-point talent in Shield Spec for the snare on the proc.

 

Also, I'm not sure why you're fixated on Ion Cell's proc. It's meaningless and you don't need it for anything. You know that all of the stuff in Assault Spec requires a burning target and that Incendiary Round activates everything in Assault Spec outside of talents specifically related to enhancing Plasma Cell, right?

 

You don't need Plasma Cell to make Assault Spec work. In fact, in PvP running Plasma Cell is gimping yourself and in PvE you can easily switch between Plasma and Ion as MET-TC dictates.

 

The only situation an Assault Vanguard needs to worry about the threat from Ion Cell is in a group situation where the tank isn't doing his job.

 

I didn't say the OP needed to change his build, just change his cell. It seems like you took that to mean that he should switch to Shield Spec or something.

 

For solo'ing and PvP, sure use Ion Cell.

 

For raiding you had better be using Plasma Cell.

[va_wanderer]

Where to begin with this one? LOL

 

How about "The OP is talking about being able to deliver in PvE, in a DPS role."

 

Not playing Huttball. PvE. Not only that, as raid DPS.

 

The plan was when I got to 50 to fill in whatever role was needed in my raid group.

I hit 50 a few days ago.

My guild needs dps.

 

Plasma Cell, with no crits and no boosts whatsoever outside talents deals about 18K per minute in DoT tics- and more with crits and early refreshes from HIB's or an Ion Pulse occasionally adding in. Now, if he needs the defense boost in normal PvE, Ion Cell good and well- but I'm a big believer in teaching people the joys of Plasma Cell here. It's what he'll be running in raids, and it's great for dealing with mobs that overwhelm a stationary Vanguard.

[moomtazz]

I don't like relying on incendiary round to make hib available. IR costs 3 ammo which can kill you if you nEed to refresh it late into a fight. That's why I use plasma cell.

[GreenLantern]

I don't know why you aren't running with assault plastique.

Also, plasma cell is god tier for DPS. Don't listen to the moron who said Ion cell is better. Mine does 1200 damage over 6 seconds (not including critical ticks and increased damage against targets under 30%) in BM Eliminator gear.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801bMZMsZfhbrzGhrs.1

That's the build you want to run.

Edited February 18, 2012 by GreenLantern

[Quesadilla]

If you're struggling with elites your problem is not your cell or your spec, it's your rotation. I leveled all the way to 50 with full assault spec and there wasn't a single mob I couldn't kill on the second try at most using Plasma Cell (and usually elites were no problem the first time). Using Plasma Cell I can solo the Belsavis 2 man heroic with a little kiting. Ion Cell would help you soloing to a degree, but like someone said, if you're using Ion Cell as a non-tank in a group you're not the brightest tool in the shed, and if you don't have a proper DPS rotation with Plasma Cell active then your group is only going to suffer more. Edited February 18, 2012 by Quesadilla

[MatticusRex]

I don't know why you aren't running with assault plastique.

Also, plasma cell is god tier for DPS. Don't listen to the moron who said Ion cell is better. Mine does 1200 damage over 6 seconds (not including critical ticks and increased damage against targets under 30%) in BM Eliminator gear.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801bMZMsZfhbrzGhrs.1

That's the build you want to run.

 

This, only I'd personally swap out Paralytic Combat Stims for Sweltering Heat. The snare makes killing melee elites laughably easy; just circle-strafe at around 10m until it dies. Dorne can heal through most anything you encounter, and anything she can't can be dealt with through other means. Stuns and interrupts can make or break fights with elite mobs. Chances are, if Dorne can't keep you alive, then either there's a nasty ability that you need to interrupt or you need to keep the elite locked down and deal with any strongs or normals.

[Riulassher]

While Ion Cell makes more sense in PVE...

 

...I like using Plasma Cell against strong and elite mobs, whenever possible. It's a good practice for getting good at kiting, staying at various distances and flowing between melee, medium and long range positions.

 

That class is mobile, and using Plasma Cell or High Energy Cell makes mistakes and sloppy play style more noticeable.

 

It's definitely bad to use it like Ion Cell's bulldozer style of combat vs groups.

[Kesrik]

Why would you even need more survivability in PvE? Most boss mechanics are avoidable, and the ones that aren't can easily be healed through by competent healers. You would be better off doing more damage while using Plasma Cell, and just stop failing at mechanics.

[va_wanderer]

I don't know why you aren't running with assault plastique.

Also, plasma cell is god tier for DPS. Don't listen to the moron who said Ion cell is better. Mine does 1200 damage over 6 seconds (not including critical ticks and increased damage against targets under 30%) in BM Eliminator gear.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801bMZMsZfhbrzGhrs.1

That's the build you want to run.

 

AP's good burst damage, but from what I've been seeing, going full 31 isn't quite as efficient for long-term DPS vs. spending the points elsewhere. It's tremendously good at getting a weaker mob down FAST, though. The classic PvP-style AP -> IP/IR -> HIB kill combo works good for that in PvE too. I usually advice x/x/25 or /28 depending on taste- I went /25.

 

(IMHO, it's a flaw in all the Vanguard trees- the 31 talent is conditional at best, bad at worst. Energy Blast, bleah.)