Blotter Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I have to agree. Too powerful and need to be nerfed. When the player pop is 80% of them, it makes you wonder. BS. I see far more assassins on my server than anything else, especially in PvP. Granted, there's more sorcs than, say, snipers, but everyone wants to be Darth Mal, running around in circles back and forth like a fool while doubleblading the crap out of some poor sap they have stunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm talking about dev commentary and so on, primarily - a lot of which disappeared in the forum wipe. And it's absolutely with noting that the people that are biggest on metrics did not come from Mythic. IE, GZ's got tagged as the Master of Metrics by other devs. If they'd used a metrics driven approach in WAR from the beginning, the WAR guys would have been pretty out front on that one too, but they never really were. Couple that with direct references as to it being part of what makes the game different from basically everything else... Logic. It works. This is inductive logic, so I can only say that this is probably true, but you can't seem to assemble an effective counter-argument so frankly I'm okay with that. Yes, which (again) is a very, very, very long winded way of saying that you don't actually have clue (and that you seem to have a massive emotional investment in Sorcs not being nerfed - as that seems to be the thing you think these "signs" suggest will never happen). Fair enough, I get that. However I completely disagree. Personally I think Bioware will do exactly what they did in WAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 As a DPS player I hate that resolve bar. Not becasue it prevents excessive CC, but because it never seems to help me when my bar is full. Anybody know why? Some things are off resolve, for one. And there could be a couple of glitches. Kind of hard to file detailed bug reports on them, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixthy Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Sorcs and Sages are a pretty rare class in this game. http://imageshack.us/f/835/screenshot2012020900584.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/screenshot2012020900334.jpg/ Back to back games. Edited February 10, 2012 by Sixthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Yes, which (again) is a very, very, very long winded way of saying that you don't actually have clue (and that you seem to have a massive emotional investment in Sorcs not being nerfed - as that seems to be the thing you think these "signs" suggest will never happen). Fair enough, I get that. However I completely disagree. Personally I think Bioware will do exactly what they did in WAR. Attempting to construct an emotional tie in. Nice. Transparent, illogical, and useless, but nice. And then there's the classic attempt to dismiss the entire notion of applying logic and reason to the situation. Seriously, if you can't actually argue the logic, just stop. Edited February 10, 2012 by Inarai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plexima Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sorcs and Sages are a pretty rare class in this game. http://imageshack.us/f/835/screenshot2012020900584.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/screenshot2012020900334.jpg/ Back to back games. 16 unique players. That's what I'm used to seeing as well. About every BG I que up for has at least 70% of the players being Sorc/Sage. It's obvious the month has expired on this FTM class, and a nerf is needed to balance the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 That's what I'm used to seeing as well. About every BG I que up for has at least 70% of the players being Sorc/Sage. It's obvious the month has expired on this FTM class, and a nerf is needed to balance the numbers. That's no kind of reason for a nerf. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotsky_tor Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sorcs and Sages are a pretty rare class in this game. http://imageshack.us/f/835/screenshot2012020900584.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/screenshot2012020900334.jpg/ Back to back games. http://i.imgur.com/l1m6U.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Attempting to construct an emotional tie in. Nice. Transparent, illogical, and useless, but nice. And then there's the classic attempt to dismiss the entire notion of applying logic and reason to the situation. Seriously, if you can't actually argue the logic, just stop. So you think Bioware will nerf Sorcs if they need to be nerfed then? In which case we actually agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skuldar Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Isn't it interesting that most of the nerfts to classes/skills have only served to make sorcs and sages stronger compared to other classes? Biochem.... yup, reduce the healing ability of other classes Operative nerf.... yup, sorcs don't have a single class to fear now Surge.... yup, reduce the burst capability of classes that previously focused on stacking surge, which sorcs don't (insert 9 sorcs saying they stack surge), reduced ability of other classes to get through their shield Assassin/shadows .... yup, a gentle reminder that you picked the wrong AC There are many other examples but you get the point. Oh, and check over the patch notes of all patches released since. How many patches changed a single thing about sorcs? Zero. All you are really saying is that they haven't nerfed Sages/Sorcs yet. Every nerf by definition gives a relative boost to whoever did not get nerfed. By your same logic, every nerf has buffed Troopers/Bounty Hunters and Knights/Warriors, so why just pick out one class to whine about? This is nothing but a thinly veiled call for nerfing a class you most likely do not play and therefore don't care about having reduced ability as long as you get some meager satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So you think Bioware will nerf Sorcs if they need to be nerfed then? In which case we actually agree. Yes, but the caveat is that if things were as bad as people seem to think, there'd already be some correction in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plexima Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) That's no kind of reason for a nerf. Seriously. The general consensus to an imbalance in numbers like that is that the class is OP or better put, FTM. Most major AAA MMO's (mainly one that wont be named) look at these numbers and nerf or buff other classes accordingly to keep the classes balanced. It's blatantly obvious something needs to be done to balance the numbers currently in my honest opinion. Edit: this goes to the imbalance to Empire to Rebub ratios...Repub needs a buff all around to entice people to roll that faction as well. Edited February 10, 2012 by Plexima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) The general consensus to an imbalance in numbers like that is that the class is OP or better put, FTM. Most major AAA MMO's (mainly one that wont be named) look at these numbers and nerf or buff other classes accordingly to keep the classes balanced. It's blatantly obvious something needs to be done to balance the numbers currently in my honest opinion. Popularity is not a reason to make balance changes. If a game's balance team is looking at that, it's because they don't have better information to make that decision with, so they're making the assumption that the population is due to a balance issue. That's not a valid assumption to make, but it's all they've got. Here, they've got a hell of a lot more to go off of than that and can make better, more informed decisions. In fact, I'll ask you this: If the metrics do not show that a class is overpowered yet they are heavily populated, do you think a nerf should be applied in that circumstance? As for faction balances, you don't make a faction more powerful so much as you make it more attractive to fix that. Though the slight imbalances between mirrors should be fixed. Edited February 10, 2012 by Inarai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yes, but the caveat is that if things were as bad as people seem to think, there'd already be some correction in place. Bioware have never been fast when balancing an MMO, glacial would be a better discription, but in fairness they get there in the end (mostly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Bioware have never been fast when balancing an MMO, glacial would be a better discription, but in fairness they get there in the end (mostly). It would have been higher priority than previous changes. Full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotsky_tor Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 It would have been higher priority than previous changes. Full stop. The fact that Ops and other changes have been made does not preclude the possibility of the devs thinking that Sorc/Sage also need balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The fact that Ops and other changes have been made does not preclude the possibility of the devs thinking that Sorc/Sage also need balancing. No, but it does logically exclude the idea of it being as bad as people would have you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datku Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The fact that Ops and other changes have been made does not preclude the possibility of the devs thinking that Sorc/Sage also need balancing. Other than some devs say sorcs/sages were their most balanced classes. Can't remember if it was in one of the video blogs or what but at one point that claim was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotsky_tor Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) No, but it does logically exclude the idea of it being as bad as people would have you think. Again, no it doesn't. Logically, all it says is that people thought the Op problem was worse. Once the changes to Ops went in, people moved on to complaining about what was seen as the next biggest issues. That's how this works. e.g Say you give the "perceived issues" a number value. 100 Operatives are OP and one-shotting everyone 95 Sorcs are overpowered. 90 Tracer Missile is ridiculous ... ... etc Obviously the #s are made up, I'm just trying to express my point. The fact that people are talking about sorcs now doesn't mean the problem didn't exist now, isn't a "bad" problem. It just means there were more pressing concerns at the time. Edited February 10, 2012 by trotsky_tor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Again, no it doesn't. Logically, all it says is that people thought the Op problem was worse. Once the changes to Ops went in, people moved on to complaining about what was seen as the next biggest issues. That's how this works. e.g Say you give the "perceived issues" a number value. 100 Operatives are OP and one-shotting everyone 95 Sorcs are overpowered. 90 Tracer Missile is ridiculous ... ... etc Obviously the #s are made up, I'm just trying to express my point. The fact that people are talking about sorcs now doesn't mean the problem didn't exist now, isn't a "bad" problem. It just means there were more pressing concerns at the time. Oh, please, Sorc whining was way louder. Edited February 10, 2012 by Inarai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotsky_tor Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Oh, please, Sorc whining was way louder. Way louder than Op whining *before* the nerf? You are cracked. Edited February 10, 2012 by trotsky_tor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Way louder than Op whining *before* the nerf? You are cracked. Regardless of that pointless argument (as we're relying on memory there), the fact is if the MAGNITUDE of the problem is as people would have you believe, it would have been the higher priority by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotsky_tor Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Regardless of that pointless argument (as we're relying on memory there), the fact is if the MAGNITUDE of the problem is as people would have you believe, it would have been the higher priority by far. it's not a pointless argument. The only reason the "magnitude" of this problem seems as high as it is now, is because there isn't the overpowering complaints from before drowning it out. There will always be a "biggest" problem, and it will always take over the entire forum. Then it'll get changed, and something else will take top spot. Before that change happens, nothing else seems to even be on the radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Starks Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Oh, please, Sorc whining was way louder. Oh, hey, welcome to the TOR forums! I am guessing this is your first day. That, or you're one of those people who like to ignore reality if it conflicts with some insignificant point they are trying to make. I think it's the former so welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 it's not a pointless argument. The only reason the "magnitude" of this problem seems as high as it is now, is because there isn't the overpowering complaints from before drowning it out. There will always be a "biggest" problem, and it will always take over the entire forum. Then it'll get changed, and something else will take top spot. Before that change happens, nothing else seems to even be on the radar. No, it's pointless in that it doesn't relate to the point I was making. I was talking more about how BAD people would have you believe the issue is - and if it was that bad, it would have been dealt with very quickly. Really, amount of whining means effectively nothing as it's not the driving force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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