SW:TOR Versus... SW:G

[CecilTellyn]

Ok so this thread will probably be locked soon but here's my take on the OP's nostalgia:

 

 

SWG:

Planets: More than 10 planets, such as Tatooine, Kashyyyk, Corellia, Dantooine, Yava IV, Naboo, ...

Big in size and free in travel. The big and free places were used to build houses and create citys.

 

I did like the huge planets but they were completely empty. The day/night cycles were awesome and I loved the weather effects. However, they were COMPLETELY EMPTY. There was nothing to do on them.

 

Races: Bothans, Human, Rodians, Zabrak, Trandoshan, Mon Calamari, Twi´lek, Wookies,...

 

Not much argument here... I wouldn't mind seeing more races in TOR but honestly, it's not really that big of a deal to me either way and there are more important things I'd rather see added.

 

Timeline: following the destruction of the Death Star in Episode IV: A New Hope, but before the beginning of Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back.

(I know those movies and its story!)

 

You know those movies and their story, however, it's a TERRIBLE idea to put an MMO in this timeframe because you are incredibly restricted by what you can do and what you can have the players do (unless you just want to consider it "not canon" but that doesn't really fly for Star Wars that much). So what did SOE do because of the time period they set their game in? Well, you weren't allowed to be a Jedi at first (in fact, the Jedi system wasn't even in the game at launch) and in order to get Jedi, you had to grind (and the word "grind" isn't a strong enough term) all the professions, including ones you had no interest in.

 

So there were de facto no Jedi. Second, you couldn't really do anything to affect the Galactic Civil War because the movies already set in stone what happened. You could join the Empire but you couldn't help them to victory. You could join the Alliance but you really didn't get to do anything important. Rather, most of the time you were sent on missions that were "go destroy this enemy camp" which used the same code and same logic as the missions that were "go destroy this nest of womprats." This caused enemy camps to randomly spawn stormtroopers at set intervals like it was a cloning machine.

 

Anyway, there's more but you get the point. The timeline for SWG was a mistake. By setting TOR in their own time period, the devs can make anything happen that they want and all players can make a difference (at least, canonically).

 

other features:

Single- and multi-passenger ground vehicles and starships

Player-run virtual economy (99%)

An extensive set of emotes, moods, and associated animations

The ability for players to place bounties on opponents that participate in PVP

Dynamic resource spawns on planets needed for complex crafting

Using creatures as mounts

 

1) ground vehicles and starships were not in at launch. I loved the huge (empty) worlds but running across them ON FOOT was terrible.

 

2) Yeah, the player run economy is ok, I guess but it means that certain players have to be crafters and crafting in that game was literally like a full time job. Some people liked it though so that's fine I guess.

 

3) Won't argue with this but... I'd prefer other features to this.

 

4) Not at launch.

 

5) Dynamic resource spawns, yes, but you had to hunt for them which a huge grind.

 

6) Not at launch.

 

 

I played SWG and it wasn't a game, it was a simulation. There's a BIG difference.

Edited February 10, 2012 by CecilTellyn

[Emeda]

Especially after NGE, the game couldn't even decide what it wanted to be themepark or sandbox. They basically ended up trying to force themepark in a sandbox, which means none of the quests felt right or went with the environment they were in. The more they added the less it felt like a thought out game.

 

You can blame SOE and LA for that not SWG.

[noctowl]

Tons of Jedi running around when they were suppose to be "nearly extinct" in that time period. SWG was fail.

[Emeda]

Ok so this thread will probably be locked soon but here's my take on the OP's nostalgia:

 

 

 

I did like the huge planets but they were completely empty. The day/night cycles were awesome and I loved the weather effects. However, they were COMPLETELY EMPTY. There was nothing to do on them.

 

Would that be the same completely empty as the other poster that said it was completely empty and that houses were on spawn points. There is a difference between open and empty.

 

Not much argument here... I wouldn't mind seeing more races in TOR but honestly, it's not really that big of a deal to me either way and there are more important things I'd rather see added.

 

There are more important things you think should be added because? you think they should have been in at launch?

 

You know those movies and their story, however, it's a TERRIBLE idea to put an MMO in this timeframe because you are incredibly restricted by what you can do and what you can have the players do (unless you just want to consider it "not canon" but that doesn't really fly for Star Wars that much). So what did SOE do because of the time period they set their game in? Well, you weren't allowed to be a Jedi at first (in fact, the Jedi system wasn't even in the game at launch) and in order to get Jedi, you had to grind (and the word "grind" isn't a strong enough term) all the professions, including ones you had no interest in.

 

The jedi grind was optional. The grind also wasnt bad if you actually just played the game and didnt just try to become a jedi in your first week playing.

 

So there were de facto no Jedi. Second, you couldn't really do anything to affect the Galactic Civil War because the movies already set in stone what happened. You could join the Empire but you couldn't help them to victory. You could join the Alliance but you really didn't get to do anything important. Rather, most of the time you were sent on missions that were "go destroy this enemy camp" which used the same code and same logic as the missions that were "go destroy this nest of womprats." This caused enemy camps to randomly spawn stormtroopers at set intervals like it was a cloning machine.

 

Anyway, there's more but you get the point. The timeline for SWG was a mistake. By setting TOR in their own time period, the devs can make anything happen that they want and all players can make a difference (at least, canonically).

 

The devs can make anything happen and the players can make a difference. Thats true as long as they dont put in on a major planet (like where the capitals are) or on taris because then what one would they use.

 

1) ground vehicles and starships were not in at launch. I loved the huge (empty) worlds but running across them ON FOOT was terrible.

2) Yeah, the player run economy is ok, I guess but it means that certain players have to be crafters and crafting in that game was literally like a full time job. Some people liked it though so that's fine I guess.

3) Won't argue with this but... I'd prefer other features to this.

4) Not at launch.

5) Not at launch.

 

Your right with 1-5 but how does that mean SWTOR shouldnt have it at launch? Can they not learn what players like or what is good for the game. Anyone who thinks th enot at launch in wow or swg is a good excuse for swtor to not have it and add it later is just being a fanboi. Maybe cars can wait 30 years before they put in air bags and they can use the excuse that the cars from 1960 didnt have airbags.

 

I played SWG and it wasn't a game, it was a simulation. There's a BIG difference.

 

I played SWTOR and it wasnt an MMO it was a Single Player Game.

[hizzler]

I have to chime in and represent the "hard" grind that SWG was. The problem is now with the "gimme gimme" generation, these kids think they are entitled to be "l337" within the first months of the game. All those posters that are saying "eh meh god another swg thread!" you gal d@mn right its another swg thread! This SWTOR game is NOT an MMO and it does NOT include the complexity of having an invested player in an MMO.

 

I would hands down drop SWTOR for an SWG (pre-nge) server and gladly pay the $15 because the mechanics and features in that game truly demanded dedication to the game itself. Not saying SWTOR didnt do some things right. The companion and streamlining of crafting is genius. The polish of these graphics and mixing clone wars art style with realism is genius. The story driven voice acting for class quests... genius! However...the drop off at level 50 with no more content for your story, fail. The limited PVP options of 3 warzones and 1 open planet (that frankly is about as boring as a snail trail) , fail. The lack of classes, (and customization) of character design, and races...bigtime fail. I HATE that other people look alike, almost identical in some cases. Not to mention that there are no social classes, so people actually have a reason to check out and hang out in a cantina or actually meet somone face to face in game to get an item. Nope they can just order through the trade network and its in thier email. Convenient but loses all socail aspects. The list can go on comparing to some of the great (and hardly used) features in SWTOR, but Ill stop here.

 

I agree alot with Choloe in that some things would have been better off left alone, and some things SHOULD have been included with this new iteration for star wars and mmo fans. I wrote multiple suggestions in beta that this game needed to be more immersive, since now its so linear. I want to have tons of space to roam around on a planet and grind out some baddies that give higher xp than my class quest would. I want to be able to explore the farthest reaches of Tatooine, before seeing a lame "exhaustion zone" message. I want to stumble upon a darkened cave in an uncharted area on my map and find lvl 50's just wandering around. Then at least I know I have to come back to that planet to see whats down there.

 

Pfft. Ef it. Im done, usubbing until I see bw announce more "things to look forward to" that actually challenge this gamers needs and less appeasing the newb generation with the immediate pay off. Cheers community. I have hope for this game, but in its state right now.. its just not for me.

 

fyi: the most memorable star wars moment were the opening credits in this game into the first cut scene.

 

 

I

[djsmileey]

Gist I got from this post was:

 

SWG lets you build stuff

 

TOR does not.

 

I am angry you cannot build cities 'n stuff; you can't move around freely or build cities. Even though the cities are already there.

 

Oh and the storyline in TOR isn't in the movies? *** IS THAT ABOUT?!

 

Thanks for the giggle OP.

[captncrunch]

May I have SWG II?!

 

*Note: (SWG II with 200 mill budget)

[MrTijger]

You can blame SOE and LA for that not SWG.

 

*s*****r* Oh, this is too funny!

[Elkard]

The history of Star Wars themed games is filled with quick rises and sharp declines. One of the best games was a space battle--you had an X-Wing--where during one of the final battles you destroy--or try to--the Death Star. This was 1984.

 

SW:TOR will survive, as games do, because of the appeal for many people, especially fans of KOTOR I&II. Whether or not it evolves into something more as the years pass, only "Yoda" can say.

 

Anything else is pure speculation.

[MrTijger]

May I have SWG II?!

 

*Note: (SWG II with 200 mill budget)

 

No, it failed

[Emeda]

*s*****r* Oh, this is too funny!

 

can I buy a vowel? or atleast 2 more letters cant figure out what *s*****r* is.

[Evolved_Monky]

Dont believe all the hype about SWG. It was a good virtual chat room. A game most could only play for a few months. A few die hard sandboxers could last 6 mo. maybe a year before leaving.

 

Way before the NGE player cities were becoming ghost towns. Abandoned homes and rusting harvesters littered the bland scenery.

 

Combat in SWG was the most boring, simplistic and rediculous mechanic in the game. Three health bars and weapons damaging one of em. Grouping was worthless after they patched the CC spaming (only reason to group). A good number of clothing variety but pathetic variety in combat armor except stats. And the auction house was used for advertising, you pretty much had to contact the player and go all the way to his house just to get good gear. Crafters loved that but action/combat gamers it was a tedious forced social BS.

Dont get me wrong being social is the point of mmos but to be forced to do it is kinda annoying.

 

If you like hanging around a cantina (pretty much flirting with other boys) and crafting, you woulda liked SWG and i dont mean as fluff for the game. No that was the core of the game. People were leaving in numbers before NGE first poped into there head.

Seriously they even added the idea of having dancers dance during combat down time... thats how effn silly that game was.

 

You guys think the hating and trolling is bad here. It was nothing compared to there forums.

And hell i remember it was a known fact agreed upon by every player back then that SWG felt nothing like Star Wars.. That was just one of many complaints.

 

SWG Was a bore fest after a few months. This is why SOE went to drastic measures to change the game.. it wasnt because omg lets redo everything to make it like WoW... It was like we dont know what the hell were doing so lets just copy someone so this game doesnt continue to crash and burn.

[MrTijger]

can I buy a vowel? or atleast 2 more letters cant figure out what *s*****r* is.

 

Oh come on, someone whocan grind through SWG can grind few letters

[Grecanis]

SWG had end-game? Only what the players made for the most part until ~2008.

 

That's what I liked about it. It had the room and the tools for you to do something different everyday. I especially miss the player made events.

[Easelman]

The biggest difference for me is:

 

In SWG, the character was an extension of me and I made personal connections with people

 

In Sw:TOR, I feel like the game is 'finished' for me in one month. There is no struggle and I don't need anyone. Its lonely.

[Qoojo]

SWG was broken from the start. Combat was crap. After I killed something, I would literally have to go fight something else, then go back to see if there was anything to loot on the first kill. The loot delay was that bad. It took years for them to fix that. SWG was a crap game at release, and it was a crap game after NGE. Holocrons for becoming a jedi could be one of the dumbest ideas ever implemented in an MMO. Don't even get me started on the overcrowded housing everywhere. Edited February 10, 2012 by Qoojo

[djsmileey]

The biggest difference for me is:

 

In SWG, the character was an extension of me and I made personal connections with people

 

In Sw:TOR, I feel like the game is 'finished' for me in one month. There is no struggle and I don't need anyone. Its lonely.

 

Heh, in SWG i just ran around as a TK and hiding in buildings on Tatooine outside the major cities like Bestine and opening and destroying people.

 

Then Jedi's came along, and everyone went bonkers over trying to get a Jedi cube, this coincidentally, is when most people started to quit as well.

 

If I didn't do that, or join in on raids to the middle of no-where against a "POSSIBLE" attack of other players, then i would run in circles around the entire planet looking for more people.

 

I don't even know how these two are a comparison.

 

It's like comparing Starcraft to League of Legends. Both awesome games, but in their own rights.

[Easelman]

Dont believe all the hype about SWG. It was a good virtual chat room. A game most could only play for a few months. A few die hard sandboxers could last 6 mo. maybe a year before leaving.

 

Way before the NGE player cities were becoming ghost towns. Abandoned homes and rusting harvesters littered the bland scenery.

 

Combat in SWG was the most boring, simplistic and rediculous mechanic in the game. Three health bars and weapons damaging one of em. Grouping was worthless after they patched the CC spaming (only reason to group). A good number of clothing variety but pathetic variety in combat armor except stats. And the auction house was used for advertising, you pretty much had to contact the player and go all the way to his house just to get good gear. Crafters loved that but action/combat gamers it was a tedious forced social BS.

Dont get me wrong being social is the point of mmos but to be forced to do it is kinda annoying.

 

If you like hanging around a cantina (pretty much flirting with other boys) and crafting, you woulda liked SWG and i dont mean as fluff for the game. No that was the core of the game. People were leaving in numbers before NGE first poped into there head.

Seriously they even added the idea of having dancers dance during combat down time... thats how effn silly that game was.

 

You guys think the hating and trolling is bad here. It was nothing compared to there forums.

And hell i remember it was a known fact agreed upon by every player back then that SWG felt nothing like Star Wars.. That was just one of many complaints.

 

SWG Was a bore fest after a few months. This is why SOE went to drastic measures to change the game.. it wasnt because omg lets redo everything to make it like WoW... It was like we dont know what the hell were doing so lets just copy someone so this game doesnt continue to crash and burn.

 

This is the player that Sandbox guys like me disagree with. Some yell at them as WoW clones and what we think 90% of the population is like. For me, they ruined the genre of an MMORPG. We think that most content should be created by the players and the game is just there to facilitate the physics of the world with enough tools to create whatever.

 

I feel finished with this game after 30 days and I cant influence my destiny

[DarthRik]

@OP

 

Hi dude, i tryed swg for about a week and didnt like the game so i went back to wow, but i have to say when i played Kotor 1 and 2, during my time playing number 1 i wished the game was an online game, this was befor i started to play wow, once i started to get into an mmo, i said the only way id quit wow was for a star wars game like kotor

 

well i got it

 

as for your swg, its dead, servers are turned off and no matter how many threads you make the facts in your opening post speaks for it self

 

swtor sold over 2million copys

 

swg sold 1 million

 

swtor has over 1 million subs

 

swg had 300k

 

 

you said it your self, this game is far better than swg

[djsmileey]

This is the player that Sandbox guys like me disagree with. Some yell at them as WoW clones and what we think 90% of the population is like. For me, they ruined the genre of an MMORPG. We think that most content should be created by the players and the game is just there to facilitate the physics of the world with enough tools to create whatever.

 

I feel finished with this game after 30 days and I cant influence my destiny

 

At least on TOR you have a destiny.

 

On SWG you were destined for the same thing forever and always.

 

Yes you could make buildings, and a bunch of other things, but you couldn't BUILD an epic mission or dungeon.

 

Sandbox MMO's have their purpose, but it's a HYBRID that would appeal to me; A mixture of both.

[chton]

Another "SWG was awesome" thread...

 

Go play the EMU. It's supposed to be a buggy and broken mess, so it sounds like an accurate depiction of SWG.

 

Bingo it'll be just like old times. Probably about as many players as SWG had at the end too.

[Sotaudi]

*snip*

 

ITEM: Not having met all the requirements of the fanbase, 2 years after release, the game was completely overhauled, the process took nearly 2 years.

The result was NOT welcomed by the community.

INCORRECT! The problem was SOE saw how much money WoW was making, and tried to make World of Star Wars, rather listening to the community, SOE and LucasArts hired an outside firm and conducted "Focus Groups" of MMO players that LucasArts admitted:

 

A. Did not want to read so much, which is what SWG had a lot of.

B. Did not want to figure out the profession/skill system because it was too confusing.

C. Could not be a Jedi out of the box.

 

So, they created the NGE... A system that when it was being tested - the ENTIRE COMMUNITY screamed to kill the project! That was ignored by SOE/LucasArts and the game suffered for it.

 

 

*snip*

 

 

First, the statement that the NGE was "A system that when it was being tested - the ENTIRE COMMUNITY screamed to kill the project!" is utter nonsense. Like the Spanish Inquisition, no one expected it. The "project" was sprung on the community without warning. That, even more than the NGE itself, was the biggest complaint about the implementation. No one knew it was coming. They just applied the update and never looked back. So the idea that they developed while the "ENTIRE COMMUNITY" protested is nonsense. The community knew nothing about it until it was implemented.

 

Second, the NGE was decidedly not the result of not meeting the expectations of the fan base or to keep up with WoW. The latter is a particularly popular historic rewrite of late due to the desire to blame everything bad in the MMO world on WoW. However, the NGE was the direct result of the absolute inability of the developers being able to balance the original profession system. The system was incredibly innovative and what most players loved about the game. However, being able to mix and match skills and stats from any profession (provided you had the prerequisite skills and the profession points to spend) introduced the ability to put together builds that, for instance, were impossible to hit. When you add into that the synergy with the crafting system allowing players to create equipment and buffs with stats that often surprised even the developers, and you have a system with inherent balance problems. There were just too many variables to keep track of. And all that was without even considering imbalances caused by the monumentally moronic decision to introduce an alpha class, the Jedi, which did not belong in the game to begin with due to the timeline.

 

This all led to the devs running from hole to hole in a vain attempt trying to plug leaks in the dike. Eventually, they recongized that they were better off just creating the traditional class based leveling system which would reduce the number of variables they had to balance.

 

Did wanting to meet the wishes of the fanbase play into the decision? Did pressure from WoW or other games factor into the decision? No doubt they did to some degree, but the change was inevitable because of the design of the original system.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Sotaudi

[Emeda]

Dont believe all the hype about SWG. It was a good virtual chat room. A game most could only play for a few months. A few die hard sandboxers could last 6 mo. maybe a year before leaving.

 

Looking at this http://www.mmodata.net/ it shows that most of the players stayed for 2 years and that was with all the bugs it had in the game that were never fixed.

 

From what I see, there were only 4 games with a more subs than SWG. I wouldnt call that a failure.

 

Look how the subs skyrocked to 300,000 and then stayed at about 300,000 for a year while no bugs were getting fixed. Then I think you can tell from that graph when the CU/NGE hit and after that it was all downhill.

 

The game had a base and had staying power but you cant expect to get more players by not fixing anything in the game for years.

 

If they made a SWGII it would have had over 1 million sold in its first month also if not more but the only difference is that those people would stay with the game and not jump ship to the new game when its released.

[EdratLightindark]

At least on TOR you have a destiny.

 

On SWG you were destined for the same thing forever and always.

 

Yes you could make buildings, and a bunch of other things, but you couldn't BUILD an epic mission or dungeon.

 

Sandbox MMO's have their purpose, but it's a HYBRID that would appeal to me; A mixture of both.

 

Yes and no. I guess you didnt play till the end. They added the Chronicle sysytem that allowed you to make your own quests. You could add rewards to em as well. Plus you got tokens (gold/silver) that you could use to purchase items at the Chronicle vendor.

[Aleryan]

I played both, was in SWG from the very start so I can comment on this.

 

What SWG did right, they did very very right...crafting. So much better than SWTOR, and I was really really hoping BW would pick up the mantle from SoE and put this style of crafting in the game. Such a shame they didn't, they had a free opportunity to have the best crafting in a themepark mmo and decided nah, lets just copy WoW's lame crafting. Still hold out hope BW will pick up on this and move to this kind of system.

 

Open worlds...big plus to SWG...there was never any limit to climbing steep inclines so you could go virtually anywhere on the map. Lots of exploration possibilities.

 

Player cities/faction bases...even WoW never had this...big plus, not only over SWTOR but WoW

 

Skill based level system - no levels. SWG was my first mmo, so I guess I took this for granted, but loved this system. Level treadmill gets old after awhile.

 

Space game - JTL was exactly what needs to happen in SWTOR. I still give BW the chance to do this, still very early in the game for SWTOR, and remember JTL didn't happen until a year after launch

 

Faction switching - one faction getting to big? No problem, you could switch back and forth and it wasn't hard to do at all. Just see your friendly neighborhood Smuggler.

 

 

Of course, what SWG did wrong, was very very wrong. To sum up, lack of content. The devs told the players the content was theirs to create, the players were like...:S

 

No content, then the holocron/Jedi system...once word came out that in order to unlock your Jedi slot, you had to grind random professions...made the game rather silly. In SWTOR you just make your Jedi..or Sith...and go from there...big plus to SWTOR.

 

Content, big big plus to SWTOR. Going to terminals to get missions to kill mob lairs then running out 10 clicks to the waypoint and hoping no one killed your mobs before you got there and then having a new waypoint generated that you would have to then run to...got old fast.

 

AFK/macros...entertainers in cantinas looping their moves in a macro then asking for tips. At least SWG had macros tho, but it sure ruined that class.

 

Limit of 1 char per server...terrible, terrible idea...big huge plus to SWTOR (not to mention a huge reason why so many left SWG to WoW). So you made a crafter, which then meant you sacrificed combat skills...and then you want to make a fighter char to balance it out? Too bad so sad, couldn't do it on the same server.

 

Time period - set between ANH and ESB...bad idea, for faction balance. Imps had all the power and Rebels were weaklings. Yeah, good balance. Oh, and lets give the Imps AT-ST pets, that will make things even better. Big plus to SWTOR. Should have set the game after ROTJ for better faction balancing.

 

Class balance....lessee, Creature Handlers with 4 rancors out at 1 time, Combat Medic/Riflemen with mind disease and poisons with 65 yrd range...good times, good times...makes Sorcs look like Druids in Vanilla WoW. Nod to SWTOR here.

 

 

tl;dr - SWG had some great stuff, and I miss it. However, there was a reason WoW cleaned its clock and it never recovered. SWTOR is much better, though if you prefer the sandbox type of mmo, SWG was for you.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Aleryan