Combat! I'm a killer!

[Daoshifu]

First thing's first.

I've read many posts here saying that combat is useless for pvp (less useless for pve but still watchman is the way to go). I aknowledged that but figured i want to hit 40 to get all the Combat abilities.

 

I dinged 40, bought the Blade Rush, bought a couple of pvp armour pieces for 40... and given a decent healer on my back and basic knowledge of my defensive CDs I'M BLOODY INVINCIBLE.

 

Right now i have no intention to respec from combat. Just this morning I was able to kill 3 imps in a row 1 vs 1 (If i recall correctly it was an assassin a jugg and something else...).

In WZs where i focus on killing ppl rather than scoring/caping/disarming I am always in top 5 (usually 1st or 2nd) in Dmg ( which right now is the best damage quality indicator we have). So to all those who say combat is ulesess and think about respecing. Ding 40 and you'll see.

To be continued after i get to 50...

 

TL;DR Combat rocks!!!!! (after lvl 40)

 

Any opinions on that from combat sents?

[Metaspark]

I only have one question: why are you focusing on getting kills, not actual warzone objectives?

[BurntSushi]

I used to be a Combat Sentinel, but once you discover the potential of Watchman you will wonder why in the hell you stayed with Combat so long.

 

Problem with Combat is that you just don't have the burst that you need to kill people effectively.

 

Combat does really well with a pocket healer, but Watchman is awesome with one.

 

Combat falls so short compared to Watchman. My playstyle is more akin to Combat and I like how it works, but at the moment Watchman beats it in damage, survivability and group utility.

 

Not to rain on your parade, but do yourself a favor and get familiar with Watchman.

[Daoshifu]

@ Metaspark

I said "in the matches where I focus..." it doesnt mean that it is the only thing i do. It's just that sometimes there is a match in which i run with a nice organized group. And so i can focus on kiling ppl (eg. on Alderaan) while other cap the towers. So my job then is to keep the imps of the tower so they don't interrupt the capping. And if they die in the process...profit.

 

@Burntsushi

I will try Watchman i just need time now to make a few warzones in combat to see if i like it (and so far i love it). I just dont like the focus on dotting on watchman used to play affli lock for about a week and it's just not my type of thing.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Daoshifu

[Psybin]

Nobody says any of the trees are useless. You can do damage and kill people in all three specs quite happily.

It's just that watchman does more damage and arguably has more utility than combat.

But if your play style prefers combat, then by all means go combat.

However, you cannot really comment until you are 50, and unless you have tried all three trees extensively.

 

Also I used to play a lock on wow. And trust me it's nothing like that. Watchman dots do not last very long at all. It's like you are hitting them hard and happen to leave dots on them.

It's more like feral kitty than lock.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Psybin

[coltton]

ya watchman is cool.. but the 6 second 100% armor penetration is unstoppable

[Jdaddy]

I like the play style of combat more, but watchmen is just flat out better. Its more dmg, more utility, more surviablity. My biggest crit in combat was like 4100. Biggest crit in watchmen was like 4050 that ive seen. To me, combat is in need of a dmg boost because i do about 100k more dmg as watchmen than combat and i dont run with a healer either, which makes watchmen even better for me since i can heal myself with zen / biochem, instead of just the biochem. I have played some focus, and its much better for guardians than it is sentinels for the extra dmg they get on their force sweep. Thats really the only dmg that comes from focus is the force sweep and its gimpped for sentinels compared to the other advanced class

[HollowVamp]

ya watchman is cool.. but the 6 second 100% armor penetration is unstoppable

 

thats actually mediocre at best sad to say

[Kovaos]

What about Focus?

[HiroAyami]

ya watchman is cool.. but the 6 second 100% armor penetration is unstoppable

 

It's nice, unstoppable until y'know... you realize it's for 6 eseconds. And then you run into skill stuttering. And then you realize Dots and abilities off the GCD are really efficient.

[Falcatta]

I used to be a Combat Sentinel, but once you discover the potential of Watchman you will wonder why in the hell you stayed with Combat so long.

 

Problem with Combat is that you just don't have the burst that you need to kill people effectively.

 

Combat does really well with a pocket healer, but Watchman is awesome with one.

 

Combat falls so short compared to Watchman. My playstyle is more akin to Combat and I like how it works, but at the moment Watchman beats it in damage, survivability and group utility.

 

Not to rain on your parade, but do yourself a favor and get familiar with Watchman.

 

I just don't see this personally. I'm a Battlemaster Combat Sentinel and don't have any issues with Anhiliation Marauders or Watchmen Sentinels in PVP. I would agree that watchman might give the group more utility but I don't see them out damaging me and very rarely one on one do they survive. Typically, because Combat is so front end loaded for damage, the dots don't matter.

 

I think you guys do the Sent community a diservice by pushing everyone to Watchman. I'm glad you like it and I would agree it has it's effective points but it's not the "only" spec that works.

[HiroAyami]

I just don't see this personally. I'm a Battlemaster Combat Sentinel and don't have any issues with Anhiliation Marauders or Watchmen Sentinels in PVP. I would agree that watchman might give the group more utility but I don't see them out damaging me and very rarely one on one do they survive. Typically, because Combat is so front end loaded for damage, the dots don't matter.

 

I'm now (recently hitting the bracket and finished gearing up...) Battlemaster Sentinel with a focus on Watchman. I'd like to say I've played through Combat and Watchmen enough to notice a contrasting difference between the two.

 

As far as damage goes, both classes are fairly even. There are a few really good Marauders on my server I tend to get into skirmishes with and from those interactions I'd say the advantage is in the DOTS. Why? They're reliable. Nothing is more awkward than attempting to Precision Slash>Blade Rush only to have the skill stutter and then stare awkwardly as you get Force Stasis'd, or more amusing, Pacified. That's a very common interaction in which you're eating some damage, the Watchman/Annihilator is healing, and you've either sucked up the lock or pop'd your breaker.

 

In a world where a Combat Sentinel can feel reliable, then maybe I could see it. I can't boast I've never lost to a Combat spec, but having faced more than enough 1v1 situations with both classes, Watchman is by far the superior with current circumstances as far as I'm concerned.

 

I think you guys do the Sent community a diservice by pushing everyone to Watchman. I'm glad you like it and I would agree it has it's effective points but it's not the "only" spec that works.

 

 

When it boils down to personal experience I suppose that it's all relevant. That being said, if the "Sentinel Community" can't read and understand that opinions are exactly that, opinions, then I say let them wallow. Anyone pushed by a post from someone who specc'd into Combat but found Watchman superior should probably be doing more than just going with "what that guy said".

[Falcatta]

I'm now (recently hitting the bracket and finished gearing up...) Battlemaster Sentinel with a focus on Watchman. I'd like to say I've played through Combat and Watchmen enough to notice a contrasting difference between the two.

 

As far as damage goes, both classes are fairly even. There are a few really good Marauders on my server I tend to get into skirmishes with and from those interactions I'd say the advantage is in the DOTS. Why? They're reliable. Nothing is more awkward than attempting to Precision Slash>Blade Rush only to have the skill stutter and then stare awkwardly as you get Force Stasis'd, or more amusing, Pacified. That's a very common interaction in which you're eating some damage, the Watchman/Annihilator is healing, and you've either sucked up the lock or pop'd your breaker.

 

In a world where a Combat Sentinel can feel reliable, then maybe I could see it. I can't boast I've never lost to a Combat spec, but having faced more than enough 1v1 situations with both classes, Watchman is by far the superior with current circumstances as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

 

 

When it boils down to personal experience I suppose that it's all relevant. That being said, if the "Sentinel Community" can't read and understand that opinions are exactly that, opinions, then I say let them wallow. Anyone pushed by a post from someone who specc'd into Combat but found Watchman superior should probably be doing more than just going with "what that guy said".

 

I understand your point about the stuttering. I don't have that problem since a patch or so ago and my damage is very reliable. I think that combat and watchman are 2 different play styles entirely and fit more with how one likes to play then one is better then the other. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. That was the point I was trying to convey. I see a few posts here where Combat sents get told they should switch due to some conventional wisdom. In my experience the player and the spec that suits their style make more difference.

[Tinmancreeping]

I dont play a sent, but I raid with Two, Ones combat other is Watch... watch destroys combat, our combat sent just switched over to Watch spec and was amazed at how much more dmg he was dishing, even tho combat is supposed to dish out more burst and watch more sustained, it just doesnt work that way atm. Edited February 10, 2012 by Tinmancreeping

[Jdaddy]

I like the fact as watchmen i can run into 3 people by myself and come out with at least 2 kills and the 3rd under 50%. I never experienced that with combat. With Combat though i enjoyed the lock downs that you can get talented with crippling throw and masterstrike(people say its broken but the only time i have had a problem with it not firing is right after a force leap). By saying we are doing the community a disservice by telling everyone to go watchmen is a little true in the fact that bioware will see the fact that more people are playing watchmen than combat by far and then they will nerf watchmen instead of doing the correct thing and giving combat a buff. Combat should be more bursty with bigger hits. I hit for the same between combat and watchmen but watchmen gives more sustained dmg. Not to mention more centering, and you can heal yourself. I would much rather play combat but i feel like there is to big of a gap right now to justifying me playing a lesser spec.

 

On a side note i play with 5-10fps in warzones and maybe its just the ability stuttering that is lowering my dmg so much in warzones but i know the difference between watchmen to combat with the same gear was at least 100k dmg in favor of watchmen.

[slowantics]

ya watchman is cool.. but the 6 second 100% armor penetration is unstoppable

 

6 seconds and once its gone you wont hit as hard. you can get cc, knocked back, slowed and all that junk.

combat animation seems slow too. when i think of ataru i picture fast air flipping fun

i think they dropped the ball on this spec

[AcerLerxt]

I dont play a sent, but I raid with Two, Ones combat other is Watch... watch destroys combat, our combat sent just switched over to Watch spec and was amazed at how much more dmg he was dishing, even tho combat is supposed to dish out more burst and watch more sustained, it just doesnt work that way atm.

 

with no combat log, and therefore no damage parsers, how do you know who does more damage in PvE?

Edited February 10, 2012 by AcerLerxt

[Mal-Sharran]

with no combat log, and therefore no damage parsers, how do you know who does more damage in PvE?

 

I would also love to know how you've figured this out without any empirical evidence. Please, enlighten us.

[Mal-Sharran]

Just another viewpoint here. I placed my first 11 points in Watchman, lost interest, went Combat from that point all the way to 50. I love Combat. The spec, is almost 'ok'. The SPEC. The mechanics right now are ****ed though. With a few tweaks to the SPEC, and a lot of fixes to the mechanics (Master Strike animation without actually using Master Strike, Zen apparently lets you Blade Rush too fast because you stutter worse than Jimmy delivering a punchline, and other stuff) Combat will be close to on par with Watchman.

 

I just two days ago tested Focus (bleh, sucks for Sentinel, only Guardians need apply) and then went Watchman. I get curious about specs. Now keep in mind learning a new spec from the ground up is rough. You aren't optimized, you gained some utility, and lost some. You're off balance. But...so far, due to the fluidity of Watchman (Merciless doesn't stutter, although you can't spam it) and the fact that dots are not mitigated by armor, I do have superior results. And they will only get better as I gain confidence and learn the spec better.

 

I love Combat. I WILL return to it when they fix it. It DOES have problems, mechanic-wise, and anybody who says it doesn't, is casual and doesn't even know what stuttering looks like. I hope they fix the issues fast, I'm not fond of dots.

 

TL;DR - Combat is great, it has mechanical problems, the spec itself is pretty close to on par with Watchman, but until they fix all the problems that plague it, Watchman is superior.

[RamzaBehoulve]

I would also love to know how you've figured this out without any empirical evidence. Please, enlighten us.

 

Go fight the same gold mob 3-4 times in a row, note down the time it took each time. Switch to Watchman, rinse and repeat, notice how you kill 4-5s faster and have much more health at the end.

Edited February 10, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Mal-Sharran]

Go fight the same gold mob 3-4 times in a row, note down the time it took each time. Switch to Watchman, rinse and repeat, notice how you kill 4-5s faster and have much more health at the end.

 

While this could give you a rough estimate it is by no means what I would call empirical. Until a damage meter is installed that tracks the exact damage output per second and by which ability, AND until they fix the stuttering inherent to Combat...the jury is still out.

[Jdaddy]

While this could give you a rough estimate it is by no means what I would call empirical. Until a damage meter is installed that tracks the exact damage output per second and by which ability, AND until they fix the stuttering inherent to Combat...the jury is still out.

 

Well considering combat is broken i bet you can guess without a dmg meter on which one deals more dmg.

[Mal-Sharran]

Well considering combat is broken i bet you can guess without a dmg meter on which one deals more dmg.

 

Broke is both accurate and harsh. I have periods where the combat is very smooth, and other periods where I have ability misfires and stuttering. When it's smooth I pump out as much damage as Watchman, I guarantee it. All depending on the length of the fight of course, I'm talking averages, not burst. 32k health on an elite mob isn't really enough to make a good call, it just isn't.

 

In WoW when you wanted to compare your numbers it was after doing at least 1,000,000 damage, so in TOR it would have to be something with at least 100k health. 100k, and doesn't fight back, forcing you to waste focus on Kick.

[Sdspecter]

All I have to say about this is take the time to play both. I love the idea of ataru, but it doesn't feel like the acrobatic spec it is supposed to be. Since all the attacks are still the same, visually I don't feel very different between both specs. However, performance in pvp and my damage have been improved by watchman. Now I am no pvp god, and i am not saying I am killing 3 at a time or topping the damage charts, but hell I am not 30 yet and am competitive now. Maybe combat will be more capable for me at 50. No idea, however watchman for the win in the here and now.

[TheoNJ]

Watchman is easier to play, because you dont have to keep attacking, your DOTS give you damage even when you lose the target. While combat you have 6 seconds to do the most damage your can. If you miss that window, you damage is very low.

 

Thats why everyone says watchaman is better.