Eltohan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 /signed No point in staying with 11K hp players, no healer, no brain whatsoever when you know you're getting a new one by the opposing team (especially when you're in a lowpop serv, you could run with a giant target on your forehead it would be the same, your team drops dead in a matter of seconds anyway). When I was <R.60 I farmed all day for : 1/ get to R.60 to HAVE A CHANCE to get BM tokens, twice per day no more (sad gating is sad) 2/ get champ gear (via item tokens, or buy cent gear at least, now you can get champ gear in no time, garanteed) As there is no way to just pvp and get a reward like as a <R.60, I just queue a premade till we get our 3 wins (and queue again for my friends that got screwed by the wins not counting for eg.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDerrien Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Leaving matches you're losing is kinda retarded imo. You do realize that one day there will be rank 70+ gear and you will have to get valor again right? Me personally I'd rather not be pissed at myself down the road when I realize I probably gave up 2 ranks of valor because "all i cared about was wins". not if we can belive what their developers said. they want to redo the system as soon as ranked wz's are introduced. i guess you'll have to reach a certain ranking to be able to get the gear instead of just farming for it. so yes, best gear will be reserved for the best ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Losses are comparatively worthless for EVERYONE, not just battlemasters. Assuming 80 commendations per game, it takes 10 games per bag, or 0.1 bags per game. On the other hand, a win toward the daily is worth 0.1+0.33=0.43 bags. A win toward the weekly is worth 0.1+0.14=0.24 bags. A win toward both the daily and weekly is worth 0.1+0.14+0.33=0.57 bags. Assuming you have both quests active, a win is worth almost 6 times as much as a loss. The disparity only gets higher the more commendations you get, which is the case since in reality you get more comms for a win, and more medals on average per win. Losses are so ridiculously devalued that it isn't worth staying in a losing warfront if progression is your goal, as it is for a huge proportion of the player base. Fix the system, not the players. How about: 1 Hour lockout for Leavers? You leave cause of your win-win maxing = crappy game for the rest. Thanks for thinking on your teammates. There is no debuff long enough that would stop me from leaving a losing match at that ratio of gear efficiency. I have other things to do. Edited February 10, 2012 by Delekii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDerrien Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Losses are comparatively worthless for EVERYONE, not just battlemasters. Assuming 80 commendations per game, it takes 10 games per bag, or 0.1 bags per game. On the other hand, a win toward the daily is worth 0.1+0.33=0.43 bags. A win toward the weekly is worth 0.1+0.14=0.24 bags. A win toward both the daily and weekly is worth 0.1+0.14+0.33=0.57 bags. as long as your gain is more than 0 its not worthless. thats the difference, its Worthless for battlemaster because daily/weekly quests are the only way to obtain the BM bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 as long as your gain is more than 0 its not worthless. thats the difference, its Worthless for battlemaster because daily/weekly quests are the only way to obtain the BM bags. "Comparatively" worthless, I said. IE: Close enough to worthless that I won't bother with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw_dragon Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 oh noes you went 1-0 down in huttball, its doomed! Toughen up princess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Thank you Gear progression!! Would it really be so bad if these pseudo PVPers leave? PVP is only the funest thing to do in a MMO! so you have to ask yourself, If you are not having any fun or you are just doing a gear grind then what happens when you reach the end? Why go through all that just go back to WoW already! Edited February 10, 2012 by Razot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mertissielle Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 An incentive? How about not having a reuputation on your server for being a tremendous manbaby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 An incentive? How about not having a reuputation on your server for being a tremendous manbaby? You mean a reputation with those people who think that losing PvP for no reward is worth their time? Yeah, I'll really miss playing with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsorus Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I tell you why i leave matches now a day.. When I'm top damage/kills for the entire Warfront, followed by the entire opposing team, then the 7 rejects I got put with that can't even score above 100k damage. That however doesn't annoy me half as much as People standing on the edge of Huttball Goal Line area shooting the guy with the ball in the pit *grin* People who leave The Civil War Snow point undefended to go take grass... When we have middle and snow already. People just bloody following others.. You know the ones.. You jump down at Snow on The Civil War cause you want to keep people from taking it, and your ENTIRE team follows you.. instead of going middle or grass. Void Star, people who fight a way from the door... Goes the same with the civil war... I know i've left Grass being guarded by 4 people to go to Middle to defend, and Guess what.. Grass gets taken 30 seconds after I leave because 4 morons I left there are fighting a mile away from the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daex Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 As someone not yet at 50, this statement has me curious. Is cheating/hacking/exploiting really that rife in TOR? Here on Legions of Lettow EU we had couple of hackers while back but they seem to be gone now. More than 8 people happens very rarely and I don't think anyone does that on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krondorf Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So invis hackers exist? NO wonder once in Void Star, i went to a door, saw no one around, then 2 seconds later the door was placed with a bomb... and too late... i had to fight a couple of guys and the door blew up.. I was thinking something fishy was going on... but I wasnt 100% sure. Now i know. Hackers deserved to be banned. No mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iriestx Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Bioware isn't capable of logging, investigating and punishing people that exploit in PvP. Every day more and more people are realizing this, and starting to exploit to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanthric Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 You mean a reputation with those people who think that losing PvP for no reward is worth their time? Yeah, I'll really miss playing with them. Depends on why you went into PvP. If you just did it for the loot, and for getting better gear for future PvP and/or box-ticking for your progression, then its clearly not worth your time. If you did it because you enjoy PvP, and even if you're losing can still get some satisfaction out of denying the enemy a goal in Huttball, or bringing down one or two of the better players on the other team, or not giving them an easy win just because they went ahead in the first minute...then there's a lot that's worth your time. Speaking as a former WAR player, I find it harder to get my head around the idea that at the first sign of a loss you exit the warzone and try for another one where you'll get an EZmode win. Perhaps its WAR and DOAC's fabled 'realm pride' at work, but you don't bail on your own side to let the others win just because someone made a mistake, or the other side played well in the first two minutes. All of the warzones are recoverable to victory, and you'll never know if you'd have done it if you don't sodding well try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fdzzaigl Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 A deserter debuff would be a good reason. I'll give you another: actually promoting teamwork, which will cause less failed matches in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpDrive Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 As a legit BM (lol @ you ilum farming welfare bm's) I wholeheartedly agree with this idea. I hate pvp enough already after not having gotten a single BM commendation in TWO WEEKS. ( seriously BW *** is that bull ****... Unless I know we're going to win, there is no incentive for me to stay in a WZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) AS Battlemaster you only need to win 3 matches a day to get your PvP dailies done. A deserter debuff is not going to keep you in the match trying for a weaker team. Incentive-orientated approach would work better, and at the moment there isn't a whole lot of reason for BMs to stay in weaker team matches. Edited February 10, 2012 by Ewgal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaidax Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Completely agree with a statement in title... I really see no reason for staying in most losing matches as a Battlemaster, unless I just want to fck around killing people right and left, just because I can. Sometimes I get into the WZ and I see a bunch of people with 14k HP or less and I really do not fancy trying to carry all of them, especially since there is a good chance that the other team is premade or at least not made out of "instant" 12k HP Juggernauts. Basically some games are a lost cause after like 3 mins in-game and I totally am not in the mood to derp around another 13 mins with 1/3 on my daily. I even got some raging n00b whisper once for leaving - sorry raging n00b, but I did not get Battlemaster title so that I could carry your sorry ***. Give us a GOOD and POSITIVE reason to stay in a trainwreck of a WZ, since currently it is both pointless and no fun (unless I decide to be a total retard and just consider the whole thing being a huge deathmatch and just ignore objectives, while going for the kills). Make some sort of trash PvP shop, where you can use commendations to buy respec tokens (instead of shelling out 100k creds each time if you happened to respec too much that week), pets and other social trash like flags and costumes, heirlooms (yes, it IS a good idea - copy it from that OTHER game) and so on. Heck, even pure BM tokens for some obscene coms price like suggested in OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollowVamp Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I miss games that weren't flooded with players only focused on gear. If you don't enjoy the PvP, what do you need the PvP gear for? those games are called console games. mmos have always been about getting the best gear. you know, even console games are, so nvm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Two thoughts to add to this ongoing discussion. 1. Who in their right mind actually thinks warzones are fun? If it isn't for gear progression there is absolutely no reason to do it. PVP is just like PVE. People aren't going to do it unless it gives them some incentive. For many it is the access to gear. 2. The latest round of PVP changes royally screw over those over valor 60 who are trying to get their battlemaster set. Right now, the last thing I need is more champion commendations. Yet, that is the only thing I have gotten in my battlemaster bags since the change occurred. It is getting to the point where I am starting to think the dang bags are bugged and don't drop the battlemaster commendations at all ... much less at 25%. My point is, I would love another avenue to take to get my commendations - even if I have to go to extremes to get it. Because right now, Ilum sucks for anything less than a full OPS throw down and the lose / win ratio in warzones is so high on the lose side that many players (myself include) are increasingly getting frustrated. When it takes three days of 5 plus matches per day just to finish 1 daily ... Then Houston we have a problem. Edited February 10, 2012 by ForceWelder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Completely agree with a statement in title... I really see no reason for staying in most losing matches as a Battlemaster, unless I just want to fck around killing people right and left, just because I can. Sometimes I get into the WZ and I see a bunch of people with 14k HP or less and I really do not fancy trying to carry all of them, especially since there is a good chance that the other team is premade or at least not made out of "instant" 12k HP Juggernauts. Basically some games are a lost cause after like 3 mins in-game and I totally am not in the mood to derp around another 13 mins with 1/3 on my daily. I even got some raging n00b whisper once for leaving - sorry raging n00b, but I did not get Battlemaster title so that I could carry your sorry ***. Give us a GOOD and POSITIVE reason to stay in a trainwreck of a WZ, since currently it is both pointless and no fun (unless I decide to be a total retard and just consider the whole thing being a huge deathmatch and just ignore objectives, while going for the kills). Make some sort of trash PvP shop, where you can use commendations to buy respec tokens (instead of shelling out 100k creds each time if you happened to respec too much that week), pets and other social trash like flags and costumes, heirlooms (yes, it IS a good idea - copy it from that OTHER game) and so on. Heck, even pure BM tokens for some obscene coms price like suggested in OP. Let me just say ... been there done that. If anything I have it worse. Why? Because I am a healer. As a full spec healer, my dps is already gimped to hell. Yet I find myself increasingly in more matches where the dps on my team can't hold their own and I have to switch gears just to compensate for their low damage numbers. And when that happens I can't get squat for medals. Bad enough healers are left out of the window for most but the only way I am going to hit 300k healing is to heal for the entire match. If I have to dps I won't even hit 100k for either dps or healing - which puts me on par with the rest of the under performing team. And like you say, the only reason I am there is for wins for dailies or weeklies. Although there are at least 100 valor levels in game, currently there is no reason to exceed 60. So simply killing or healing to increase my valor doesn't give me anything. Finding a justification to stay in a round I know if a lost cause is becoming more and more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shendaar Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) A deserter debuff wouldn't do anything. People will just afk in the warzone or leave anyway as the result is wasted time one way or the other. In a way, joining a warzone is not much different than joining a random Battlefield 3 server and I don't see people getting penalized when they leave a server full of baddies. The way I see it, if people keep leaving on you and this bothers you then you are probably part of the problem. I will stay for as long as I think there is a chance that the match can be won, but I will not waste my time trying to carry terribad players that can't even get the 75k damage medal on a 1 button ranged DPS class. Pull your weight and people will want to play with you. As the OP said, reaching valor rank 60 just makes leaving the only logical option when the match is clearly going to be lost. There is absolutely zero incentive for a Battlemaster to stay in a losing game unless trying to carry bad players is somehow entertaining to that person. Edited February 10, 2012 by Shendaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think the consensus of opinion is that BMs have the right to leave war zones or just play safely/negatively and wait for the match to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakks Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 This is a band-aid to the problem, because what is the incentive for a BM to even queue once they have full BM gear anyway? Hitting 60 felt like a chore, once there stops being gains I'm not so sure you can keep people interested in it -- or does BW think I want to get an alt to 60+ and that will keep me (and other players) around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashgan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) 500 / 500 commendations for a single bag? I'm really sorry to hear people are so lonely they can play this game for that long for pixels / diminishing returns (3 out of 4 bags are empty) instead of family, friends, and life in general. But I agree - "win 3 warzones" has to be replaced. It's a disaster for PvP and should be listed in books as example how not to design daily quests. Edited February 10, 2012 by Pashgan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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