Kioma Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Bioware did say that they're planning for more companions. Pretty sure they're going for the two-birds-with-one-stone solution. True, they did, but as has been pointed out they're going to have to implement an awful lot of companions to cover all sexualities unless they make some of them hero-sexual - and if they're going to do that for future companions there's really not a lot of harm in tweaking existing companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suaine Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Reading over the last few pages, I've had some thoughts! I'm really conflicted about bringing homophobia into the game. On the one hand, I agree that a game using such racism and slavery may as well tackle homophobia too. But, on the other hand, the game tends to be very careful to couch these terms in sci-fi-y stuff - racism becomes specieism, misogyny and chauvinism is very carefully wrapped in some dude's issues with his lady becoming a prostitute to get away from him and painting that as fairly balck and white - it's all very fantastical/escapist. We get to play female characters so strong misogyny just kind of pearls off them like a bit of summer rain. If the game were to handle homophobia, it should be as many of these other issues are - either the background of a companion character that has little bearing on their future adventures (yet informs the character's reactions to the world) or a regular side quest, maybe like the droid-sexual lady buried in a bonus series. To make any more of it would defeat the purpose and also be quite depressing. Now, I know how frustrating this silence has been, how it affected each of us and how it brought some to cancel their subscription. I myself am still wavering on whether to resub to give them a little more time. But I am wavering. Possibly because I've come across something that explains in no small part why Bioware may be reluctant to say a single thing about this. They're already dealing with too many jerks as it is. (regardless of what you think about the ideas being discussed, that kind of behavior is bordering on criminal and can do so much harm to the individuals and the company spirit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 They're already dealing with too many jerks as it is. That's unbelievably petulant and abusive. The subject of the article, I mean, not the article itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suaine Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) That's unbelievably petulant and abusive. The subject of the article, I mean, not the article itself. Yeah, and imagine, that blow up was over the option to skip combat. I can now see why the idea of just quiety slipping SGRs in must look like the best of a horrible situation to them. I mean, really, who wants to be the guy or gal who makes the SGR announcement and brings that down on themselves? Cyber bullying and stalking is not exactly what any of them signed on for when they decided to make games. Edited February 21, 2012 by Suaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioma Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Ain't that the truth. Calling her at her house?? That's way, WAY out of line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaCronqvist Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Still waiting for that update... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleNut Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 They're already dealing with too many jerks as it is. The level of moron in the people that are doing this is astronomical, luckily there are people like me who are fans sending Mrs Hepler our best wishes, hopefully that'll counteract some of it Back on topic I think I'd actually be more insulted if the sgras come in the form of new characters, especially at level cap. Even more so if it was in a paid expansion. I'm trying to find the right words to explain what I'm thinking (I'm mildly autistic, which makes putting feelings into words quite difficult at times, so please bear with me ), it'd feel like, not only do we have to wait at the back of the queue, but we're being penalised by having to pay extra fro the content the rest of the player base already has. I still support the 'hero-sexual' route, (without any 'switch' to block the content - that's what conversation options are there for in the first place) I think that's not only take less time and resources, but would also be the fairest way of implementing things. If we ended up with exclusive gay guys and girls, there would be as much outrage from the other side of the fence - not only for the fact that these characters even exist, but the fact that they then would not be able to romance who they wanted. If those exclusive gay characters were then altered to be bi, or ironically hero-sexual, I think I would actually quit there and then. Whatever the plan is, I hope we get some sort of answer soon, even if it is a 'yes, we're still working on it' - at least then we know we're not being ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusedMoose Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Back on topic I think I'd actually be more insulted if the sgras come in the form of new characters, especially at level cap. Even more so if it was in a paid expansion. I'm trying to find the right words to explain what I'm thinking (I'm mildly autistic, which makes putting feelings into words quite difficult at times, so please bear with me ), it'd feel like, not only do we have to wait at the back of the queue, but we're being penalised by having to pay extra fro the content the rest of the player base already has. Agreed. Waiting for new content in an MMO is nothing new, but for something like this, not only having to wait for a new expansion but effectively having to pay more for SGRs when OGRs were in the original game would really rub me the wrong way. I still support the 'hero-sexual' route, (without any 'switch' to block the content - that's what conversation options are there for in the first place) I think that's not only take less time and resources, but would also be the fairest way of implementing things. If we ended up with exclusive gay guys and girls, there would be as much outrage from the other side of the fence - not only for the fact that these characters even exist, but the fact that they then would not be able to romance who they wanted. If those exclusive gay characters were then altered to be bi, or ironically hero-sexual, I think I would actually quit there and then. Man, talk about worst-case scenarios. Okay maybe not worst-case, but that would definitely be bad business. It's bad enough we see clamoring for a toggle, seeing people demanding that homosexual companions be made romanceable by opposite-gender characters would feel horrible. Things like this are why I'm still hoping BioWare has decided on the hero-sexual route. Everyone gets a chance to romance the romanceable companions, everyone's happy - okay, almost everyone's happy, but I don't think the people who get angry that same-sex [Flirt] options will exist are worth considering. So long as BioWare makes it so the player initiates things, there should be no real reason to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Yeah - dedicated same-gender romanceable companions released only in a retail expansion pack, and numbering 2-3 per faction is what I think of as my doomsday scenario. I don't know that I could bring myself to spend money on that. Not having anything to go on from the Dev Team, I've been consulting the I Ching instead. It assures me that while the present moment is one of fragile and cautious doing, things are moving into a more liberated and successful direction. That doesn't mean I don't still want a status update from the Dev Team, however. Remember that the Community Q&A Thread will be closed at some point today so that questions can be selected and answered for Friday's blog post. If you have not yet posted to the thread and want an update on same-gender content, now is the time. And on that note, our Tuesday morning tally finds us holding steady at yesterday's 9% of all questions posted asking for more information on same-gender companion romance & flirts. That's a significant number, but let's not get complacent. And let's hope it means something to those choosing which questions to address this week. Edited February 21, 2012 by Uluain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleNut Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Remember that the Community Q&A Thread will be closed at some point today so that questions can be selected and answered for Friday's blog post. If you have not yet posted to the thread and want an update on same-gender content, now is the time. And on that note, our Tuesday morning tally finds us holding steady at yesterday's 9% of all questions posted asking for more information on same-gender companion romance & flirts. That's a significant number, but let's not get complacent. And let's hope it means something to those choosing which questions to address this week. It's good to see quite a few new names asking the questions too. Don't worry, I for one am in this for the long haul, will keep asking until we get an answer, this game is too good and has too much potential to give up on it. Bioware Austin just need that reminder of what (in my eyes at least) makes Bioware one of the best game developers out there. Now I'm going to play some more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuffystuffs Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Yeah, and imagine, that blow up was over the option to skip combat. I can now see why the idea of just quiety slipping SGRs in must look like the best of a horrible situation to them. I mean, really, who wants to be the guy or gal who makes the SGR announcement and brings that down on themselves? Cyber bullying and stalking is not exactly what any of them signed on for when they decided to make games. Yeah, but they can't give in to these people either...that will only encourage them. The sad thing is that these 'misogynist nerds' are still very much catered to more than others who aren't heterosexual males...just look at the [flirt] discrepancies with SWTOR...but that's not enough for some. Edited February 21, 2012 by stuffystuffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sly_swg Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't really agree rushing the implementation of this, the amount of resources it will take is WAY out of balance with the target audience (5-10% of players), and better used on many many other issues plagueing 100% of the playerbase minorities should be treated equally, not preferential, as that would be discrimination, however not implementing something because the people it targets are a small part of the userbase is not discrimination, rather common sense... for the same reason I get an assembly system iso proper crafting, cookie cutter classes iso possibility to personalise your build/gear, I'm part of the minority that likes complex game mechanics and freedom in character development...so I can understand the focus is on serve the majority (which loves cookie cutter stuff), even though I also don't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suaine Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah, but they can't give in to these people either...that will only encourage them. Oh of course, no doubt about that. But the time-honored tradition of don't feed the troll is often better for the mental health of the targets in the short term. And considering how stressful the weeks and months after a big game release can be and how volatile Bioware's clientele appears from here, I can see why they're careful. Maybe overly so. Not that I wouldn't want them to say something - right now it's usually us who take the brunt of that aggression when it comes out in force, though again the forum mods are doing a superb job of weeding out the hate, and sometimes I just wish they'd take that off our shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I don't really agree rushing the implementation of this, the amount of resources it will take is WAY out of balance with the target audience (5-10% of players), and better used on many many other issues plagueing 100% of the playerbase minorities should be treated equally, not preferential, as that would be discrimination, however not implementing something because the people it targets are a small part of the userbase is not discrimination, rather common sense... Have you read even the title of this thread? We are not asking for implementation. We're asking for an update on where this is in the development process, and how the design team hopes to implement it. We are asking for information. A lot of people are asking for information. It is easier to be patient when we know what we'll be getting. It is hard to be patient when we know nothing, and others are already enjoying the content we don't have. That's this thread in a nutshell. TL;DR - Don't jump to conclusions about what other people want. Edited February 21, 2012 by Uluain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayik Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I agree, any update at all would be appreciated. I know they read these things so it's not as though they don't know the community really wants to know an update. So it's either that they don't want to reply because it will upset a large group of the community (ie its not going to happen anytime soon if at all) or they are hoping if they ignore it for long enough we'll just give up asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suaine Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't really agree rushing the implementation of this, the amount of resources it will take is WAY out of balance with the target audience (5-10% of players), and better used on many many other issues plagueing 100% of the playerbase minorities should be treated equally, not preferential, as that would be discrimination, however not implementing something because the people it targets are a small part of the userbase is not discrimination, rather common sense... for the same reason I get an assembly system iso proper crafting, cookie cutter classes iso possibility to personalise your build/gear, I'm part of the minority that likes complex game mechanics and freedom in character development...so I can understand the focus is on serve the majority (which loves cookie cutter stuff), even though I also don't like that. You've got quite a few assumptions there that aren't necessarily true. That 5-10% number is assuming that the player base for Bioware games is representative of real world demographics, which I'd say is difficult to prove in the first place and also doesn't cover the many straight people who would be using the feature. I've brought it up before, but assuming that only LGBT players actually want SGRAs is flat out wrong. Add to that how games, MMOs in particular, already cater to smaller groups. Only a fairly low percentage of players actively do endgame content like raids - in WoW the number was around 5 to 10% and even with the raidfinder, making it completely accessible with no penalties and loweder difficulty, only about 30% of people used that content. Does that mean that logically there should be no operations? Also, you're assuming that this is too much work for something that affects only a part of the player base, but no issue is an issue for everyone. Problems in Ilum? Not everyone cares. Server imbalance? Not everyone, especially people on RP and PvE servers, cares. Sure, the UI affects me in that I have to necessarily use it to play the game, but I'm fine the way it is, I wouldn't give a damn if they never changed a thing. But do I go into all those threads and tell them their issue is less important? I do not. And above all, it would be ridiculous to assume that the same team that does UI customization has anything to do with PvP balance or server structure or art desgin, so how could a story problem take away from any of those issues? The designers try to make a game that appeals to a wide audience, and that does include catering to several different smaller groups like RPers, PvPers, Raiders, and yes, the people who want SGRAs. If you are unhappy with what the game offers you, then I am sorry and wish you luck with changing that. Personally, I find the crafting system a step up from what I had in WoW, so I'm fairly happy with it, but I can see that some people wish it could be improved. But please understand that our issue does not inherently deserve to be somehow less important than everyone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProsaicProse Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Lots of "hetero" folks like to access the same gender stuff options as well, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teraphin Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't really agree rushing the implementation of this, the amount of resources it will take is WAY out of balance with the target audience (5-10% of players), and better used on many many other issues plagueing 100% of the playerbase minorities should be treated equally, not preferential, as that would be discrimination, however not implementing something because the people it targets are a small part of the userbase is not discrimination, rather common sense... for the same reason I get an assembly system iso proper crafting, cookie cutter classes iso possibility to personalise your build/gear, I'm part of the minority that likes complex game mechanics and freedom in character development...so I can understand the focus is on serve the majority (which loves cookie cutter stuff), even though I also don't like that. Hi there just letting you know your 100% may be a bit off I have a happy little system that has never seen lag in this game (built to play FF-XIV on all high settings). I don't like PvP so don't do it. Nor do I mined the end game stuff much at this time. So I am not being plagued by other problems at the moment maybe I will be later but not now. Also I am not demanding it be implemented right now I am asking when it is planed to be. I really hope they get the things you see wrong in game fixed. I would also like to see this fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uluain Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Gold Five: "Stay on topic!" Many people are interested in hearing how the Development Team plans to introduce same-gender content. Some are hoping they will be able to not need to see it when it is in game. Others are concerned that it will only come in the form of a few new companion characters, or as part of a retail game expansion. We know the Development Team is not exactly eager to discuss this, but are only able to speculate as to why. More people have asked about this subject in the Community Q&A this week than did last week. We cannot compel the Developers to respond, but we do know that they will have to take note. No one here is saying that other content, both extant and pending, is not of importance to those concerned. We are not saying this content ought to have a priority. It is up to those who make the game to determine the most efficient and effective way to update or release game content. But as they are the ones who make such determinations, only they can tell us where this content stands. And until they tell us, all we can do is ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeOfMessiah Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I think that any features that introduce sexuality into this game should be optional, whether they are same or hetero sexual. for couple of reasons. 1) I know that some kids are going to play this game (one of mine does) and I would prefer to handle that part of his education myself (and yes, I do turn off General on his toons). 2) I don't want to see same sex flirt options, just as much as others want to have those options. If this feature were optional (ie having both an 'enable relationships' and 'enable same sex relationships' option in Social) those that want it can use it, those that don't want it don't have to see it. Keep it fair, Bioware. I can live with this. If you are going to add homosexual relationships into the game, make them optional. Give players the choice to keep them out of the game if they don't want them, otherwise, you've lost my sub, and that's plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuffystuffs Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I can live with this. If you are going to add homosexual relationships into the game, make them optional. Give players the choice to keep them out of the game if they don't want them, otherwise, you've lost my sub, and that's plain and simple. They will be as optional as the current heterosexual romances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayik Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 They will be as optional as the current heterosexual romances. Lol, agreed! At one point In my IA story I was trying to let my companion down easy without being rude to her and then next thing I know we're making out and I was just like 'wow, how'd that happen?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaac Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) So I had an email from TOR today asking me to give my valued opinion. Hi Chaac, Now that you have been playing Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ for a while, we'd love to get your feedback and hear about your experience so far. Are you having fun? What are you enjoying in the game? What could we improve? Send us a quick note at: FeedbackSWTOR@SWTOR.com. Whacked out this response; While I have enjoyed much of the game so far, as a customer I feel very undervalued due to the lack of response regarding the request for information about same gender romance arcs. While I understand that design and implementation takes time and that the Developers may not wish to reveal information about the content before it is ready, the fact that the thread has been all but ignored since the brief statement from Stephen Reid last year, without any community representatives posting except to restart the the thread, has left me very disappointed. Even a rep merely posting to say that they can't comment just yet but that it is still being dealt with would be more appreciated than the complete silence so far. The topic regarding SGRA's has been by far the most consistently talked about subject on the forums since 2008. The total developer postage regarding this content has been minimal at best. As a customer this leaves me feeling very disappointed in a company who is well known for seeking to include equality in their games and has greatly impacted on my enjoyment of this game. My partner has already unsubscribed over the lack of communication regarding this topic and I frequently find myself considering doing the same. Now to carry on waiting for the inevitable silence Might be worth checking your email inbox to see if you've had the same email. Edited February 21, 2012 by Chaac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparklecat Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah. I got a 'why did you unsubscribe?' email, which sent me to a survey that included a question about what would make me reconsider. Hopefully seeing enough of this sort of feedback will help prompt a response, so anyone who gets an email asking for your opinion, do respond! As it is, my housemate is planning to unsubscribe if the next couple of Q&As don't garner a response. He's straight, but isn't very impressed by this poor communication, nor the unequal opportunities for players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuffystuffs Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Lol, agreed! At one point In my IA story I was trying to let my companion down easy without being rude to her and then next thing I know we're making out and I was just like 'wow, how'd that happen?' Yeah, how did that happen since the options are marked? My female IA has successfully competed the story without selecting one [flirt] nor doing anything that would give an indication that she liked men (cuz she don't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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