Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Kioma]

I've played my Operative almost to lvl 50 (she's my main, btw) and I just went forward with it as I was under the impression that any SGRA's would be with new companions.

 

I'm not sure what I'll do if it's only added for existing companions...relevel my Op? Cry?

 

Oh, once it's in I don't think there's any chance it won't be included with new companions. Your Op's gonna get hers... eventually.

[Jenel]

I have to say, adding the Same Gender Romance options to the game needs to be done right. Simply copy/pasting the current romance options over the other gender won't work for a lot off characters. As somebody posted very early on in the thread, it just doesn't seem to suit the personality of a lot of characters and while some characters seem to have that kind of personality that they'd be up for anything, many are reserved.

 

However what I'd like to see is "companionship" options instead of outright romance. Playing a Male Trooper? Elara not floating your boat? Not gay? Have a bromance with Aric. Nothing overtly homosexual, just all that "I got your back" stuff and just 2 guys sitting in the armory sharing a beer. The full romance doesn't need to be obvious, a lot of depth and companionship can be gained simply through a close friendship.

 

Personally what I would like to see is NPC relationships. As a Female Trooper, I've not particularly warmed up to Aric at all, it feels you have to force the relationship to start, but every time the SIS Agent on Nar Shadaar turns up he makes me flirt outrageously. Same with Sgt Jaxo, she's adorable and really feisty!

 

So the "romance" options don't just need to have same gender options, I think it needs looked at hard and some major improvements are needed, as some romances start very easily and feel quite natural but some you really just don't feel it and then all of a sudden they're all lovey dovey with you.

 

Even some group relationships would add a lot, and not that way, get your mind out of the gutter. But imagine you've just finished say Act 3, you've got your full party, just blew up whatever, or saved so and so or defeated the big bad boss dude. You get a nice cinematic of you sitting in the lounge of your starship or in a cantina somewhere with all your companions, sharing a drink, having a laugh and just showing you that you have a close group of friends who have your back and you have theirs.

 

I've only played Trooper to high level, so I can't really speak about other class companions and whether this would work, but I know that my Havoc Squad is there for me and would fight the entire Empire for me. They love their Captain, just not romantically.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Jenel

[Kioma]

I'm kind of unsure on the preference chooser thingy.

 

In an ideal world the whole toggle/preference setter wouldn't be an issue, but if we HAD to have one, then the option to choose your character's preference at creation is one I could live with. So long as there were four choices to cover all types - men only, women only, both or non. And it became possible to attach the choice to existing characters (I'm quite happy to re-roll but it shuoldn't be mandatory, especially for those who have built up a pvp reputation etc)

 

I'm firmly against the toggle because it's completely unnecessary, and the concept of a character creation preference choice is just another form of toggle.

 

Look at it this way: the people who are arguing for its inclusion (and I don't think this is unfair to state) primarily want it because they don't want to see same-sex content. If such a person comes across the option to perform a same-sex flirt in a conversation it'sprobably fair to assume that there is almost zero chance they'll choose it.

 

So if the pro-toggle folk aren't going to ever choose same-sex flirt options, and the NPCs are no more forward about their intentions than they are at the moment (as an example of one of the more forward companions, Doc refers to female JKs as 'beautiful' and really, once you've slapped him into shape he backs off pretty comfortably so it's no big lasting deal), the matter actually solves itself.

 

Whether the toggle is there or not those people (most likely) won't be utilising the new flirts. That makes the toggle completely redundant. It's extra coding on top of everything else, adds to workload, may potentially be bugged, and won't change anything in the end anyway.

 

Similarly, a sexual preference choice does the same thing. It's really just a toggle in the character creation process rather than the options. Once same sex options are in you'll be able to determine your character's gender preferences the same way you determine their LS or DS alignment, the same way you choose their armour, the same way you choose which Flashpoints to do - by making in-game decisions.

 

On reflection I think that for those who have no interest in relationship content the act of being forced to choose an orientation would also be an aggravating reminder that the pro-SGRA and anti-SGRA crowds couldn't stop bickering about some damn Toggle that they, the non-romance-inclined gamers, couldn't care less about.

 

I would greatly prefer the Dragon Age 2 approach which makes sense in the 'you are the hero of your own story' way, so long as current companions are included and we're not forced to pay for the content in an expansion in a year or so down the line.

 

Yes, this. I agree with this. This above bit? You see that bit? I agree with it. <nods emphatically>

[Kioma]

Simply copy/pasting the current romance options over the other gender won't work for a lot off characters. As somebody posted very early on in the thread, it just doesn't seem to suit the personality of a lot of characters

 

This is why I'm for hero-sexual characters: people have different opinions on what sexuality would suit which companion.

 

and while some characters seem to have that kind of personality that they'd be up for anything, many are reserved.

 

You know what they say, though. You can't trust the quiet ones. Look at Great Britain: tremendously reserved in many ways and yet it produced Monty Python (amongst many, many others).

 

However what I'd like to see is "companionship" options instead of outright romance. Playing a Male Trooper? Elara not floating your boat? Not gay? Have a bromance with Aric. Nothing overtly homosexual, just all that "I got your back" stuff and just 2 guys sitting in the armory sharing a beer. The full romance doesn't need to be obvious, a lot of depth and companionship can be gained simply through a close friendship.

 

I actually really like this idea. I mean there's a bit of it in there already - you can slowly gain Aric's respect, for example - and while I have some issue with the term 'bromance' I've never been able to pin down, I really would like to see the option of a comrade-development thing going on.

 

Of course those companions will be with us through every expansion Bioware releases, so maybe there'll be beer-talks in the future anyway!

 

So the "romance" options don't just need to have same gender options, I think it needs looked at hard and some major improvements are needed, as some romances start very easily and feel quite natural but some you really just don't feel it and then all of a sudden they're all lovey dovey with you.

 

To be fair some people are just like that. There's a wall and once you're past it there's squishy pink lurrrve behind it. But I get what you're saying.

 

Even some group relationships would add a lot, and not that way, get your mind out of the gutter. But imagine you've just finished say Act 3, you've got your full party, just blew up whatever, or saved so and so or defeated the big bad boss dude. You get a nice cinematic of you sitting in the lounge of your starship or in a cantina somewhere with all your companions, sharing a drink, having a laugh and just showing you that you have a close group of friends who have your back and you have theirs.

 

That would, of course, be dependent on how you treated them. What if you treated them all horribly? Or some well and others badly? Of course there's also the point that the insinuation seems to be, from what I got when my JK hit 50, that you're forced back into the conflict with pretty much no pause.

 

Which is funny because you can spend several days (literally) sitting in the Fleet crafting and RPing even though one of your missions has to be done right now, buster, sort of thing.

 

I've only played Trooper to high level, so I can't really speak about other class companions and whether this would work, but I know that my Havoc Squad is there for me and would fight the entire Empire for me. They love their Captain, just not romantically.

 

Awwh. <3 I bet Aric's eyeing your butt when you're not looking. Probably in the dark, too. Cat eyes, yo.

[LyriaFrost]

<edited my previous version of this post cause the person I was responding to the response of already cleared stuff up, so...yay?>

 

I hope we hear something soon, but my fear is that with all the work that it will take to include at least 2 companions per class (1 male, 1 female) that would be open to a same gender romance, we may not see anything until quite some time from now. Most likely with a larger content expansion... which would probably be at least 1 year + down the line.

 

 

They COULD cut down on the number of work by making two per faction (a multi-class companion, just give them LOTS of customization options), but that would be a bit disappointing.

 

Might be a decent stop-gap though. At least as an initial offering.

 

Awwh. <3 I bet Aric's eyeing your butt when you're not looking. Probably in the dark, too. Cat eyes, yo.

 

Have you seen him when you're bending down to harvest a node, or fixing a computer system? His eyes are fixed right on your bum!

Edited February 15, 2012 by LyriaFrost

[stuffystuffs]

 

They COULD cut down on the number of work by making two per faction (a multi-class companion, just give them LOTS of customization options), but that would be a bit disappointing.

 

 

That still seems to be a lot of work as the shared companions will still have to fit differently into two different class stories. I guess the personal dialogs can be reused.

 

If it's true that they were working on SGRA content pre-launch via new companions and just didn't get it finished in time, it might not be that long of a wait.

[LyriaFrost]

That still seems to be a lot of work as the shared companions will still have to fit differently into two different class stories. I guess the personal dialogs can be reused.

 

If it's true that they were working on SGRA content pre-launch via new companions and just didn't get it finished in time, it might not be that long of a wait.

 

Yeah, if they want them to be a kind of "universal" companion that can fit into any storyline, it'd be easy to trim down the workload to just 2 per faction. Say a pretty mechanic girl who agrees to come along with you and help out on your ship, and is handy with a blaster (and is named Kaylee! ). Same thing for a male companion.

 

Of course, more is always better, but it'd be a start.

 

And yes, hopefully soon! *crosses fingers*

[Kioma]

They COULD cut down on the number of work by making two per faction (a multi-class companion, just give them LOTS of customization options), but that would be a bit disappointing.

 

Might be a decent stop-gap though. At least as an initial offering.

 

I very much hope that they don't leave it at that. I really want some multi-class companions but I'm going to be vastly disappointed if they don't allow greater access to the characters we already have.

 

Have you seen him when you're bending down to harvest a node, or fixing a computer system? His eyes are fixed right on your bum!

 

See?? That darn cat...

[MoogleNut]

@Kioma - Oh I agree on the whole toggle is a bad thing, um thing. For all the points raised by you and others. (I can't even stand the sound of the word, but that's an autism thing, not for this discussion )

 

Honestly, I'm just getting to the point now where if that was the ONLY way we'll get our SGRAs, I'd take it rather than nothing at all.

 

Of course, Hero-sexual is the best way for me, and hopefully the devs will come to realise that too (Hopefully sooner rather than later).

[Kioma]

Honestly, I'm just getting to the point now where if that was the ONLY way we'll get our SGRAs, I'd take it rather than nothing at all.

 

Maybe, maybe not. I've seen nothing, personally, to indicate that the devs are even considering this. I don't think we're actually in a situation where the Toggle is the only way of getting SGRAs. After all, as far as I know the concept of the Toggle was raised after the announcement that same sex content was coming, yes?

 

I think we're starting to get into the mindset of 'the Toggle might be the only way' specifically because Bioware hasn't contacted us to say what we should or shouldn't expect.

 

Hint hint, developers.

[MoogleNut]

Maybe, maybe not. I've seen nothing, personally, to indicate that the devs are even considering this. I don't think we're actually in a situation where the Toggle is the only way of getting SGRAs. After all, as far as I know the concept of the Toggle was raised after the announcement that same sex content was coming, yes?

 

I think we're starting to get into the mindset of 'the Toggle might be the only way' specifically because Bioware hasn't contacted us to say what we should or shouldn't expect.

 

Hint hint, developers.

 

Bolded for absolute agreement

The longer we go without hearing anything, the more our crazy little minds will come up with worst-case scenarios and conspiracy theories.

 

Let's hope we hear something this Friday.

 

Now I'm going to work on my perfect Mass Effect 2 playthrough ready for March

[Suaine]

Typing one-handed today, and no, that isn't a euphemism - surgery went... I wouldn't say well, but when it was over they gave me really good painkillers, so.

 

I've been reading the thread and there's one thing that bothers me. Sexual orientation is not a personlity trait - that kind of thinking only gets us stereotypical characters with no depth. We know so little about these characters - companions and NPCs alike - that assigning them any canonical traits is already difficult, but putting it out there that because some character shows certain traits they must be one orientation or another is kind of missing the point. Fact is, we can not look at a character and just know, we can not listen to them talking about unrelated subjects and *know*. The only way we will ever know is if they explicitly tell us exactly what they are into, and even then they might be lying.

 

That's why I would want all of the current and future romantic companions open to all players. Let everyone figure out the story on their own time. Why limit if we don't have to?

 

And I'm not going to stop asking for current companions either. It may be a waste of time and effort in someone's eyes if this stuff doesn't concern them, but it matters to me. I don't want to have to pretend my character is sadly closeted until 50 for every damn alt. That story gets old pretty fast, esepcially if you don't have a choice. And personally I'm not in this game for raiding or PvP but do I blame them for the resources that are allocated to making theirs an enjoyable experience? Hardly. Catering to several different groups is an MMOs lifeblood, and I'd bet my healthy arm that everyone who wants or would use SGRAs is actually a bigger crowd than hardcore raiders.

[ikinai]

Let's put it this way, when I get my bagel in the morning I flirt with the girl at the counter. Now, I know she's straight, and she knows I'm not so much. Guess what? It's not going anywhere, it's just a bit of fun banter to pass the time. If it does lead somewhere great, if not no harm done.

 

I've seen straight people compliment other straight people of the same gender in a very flirtatious way, does that make them gay? Nope, it does not, it makes them flirtatious, it doesn't mean it has to go anywhere. So, does that mean that it shouldn't be an option for a male character to flirt with another male or female with female in this game? I'd say because it happens daily in the real world it should have been there from the start.

 

Just my two cents, of which I stated long ago in a forum far far away that got obliterated to make way for a hyperspace bypass or something; angering many mice.

[Uluain]

I like the idea of choosing your gender preference upon character creation. I wouldn't be too keen on accidentally pressing the wrong social button and having to sit through an awkward romantic encounter with Khem Val.

 

This really doesn't have to be that complicated.

I have never clicked on a prompt marked [Flirt]. They are easy to miss. As Stephen Reid said when elaborating upon BioWare's intention of including same-gender romance content post-launch,

"Lastly for those of you who seem concerned that you will be 'tricked' into any romance arc in the game - all romance choices are clearly marked. You will be aware you're making those choices as you make them."

That is, the current system of choosing among options, allowing you to avoid those you do not wish to explore already accomodates that desire.

 

What it does not accommodate, and what it seems to me it is actually wanted for by those so relentless on the subject, is not having to see that the option is there for others to choose. I see no need to accomodate same-gender content in that regard, when that option has neither been supplied nor requested for any other optional content in the game.

 

"What about the profanity filter?" some have asked. Well, the profanity filter doesn't filter game content, it introduces player control over how much they see of what other players are saying in chat. It's more akin to the /ignore feature. Apples and oranges.

In an ideal world the whole toggle/preference setter wouldn't be an issue, but if we HAD to have one, then the option to choose your character's preference at creation is one I could live with.

I still think that is unnecessarily restrictive. For one, all my characters are created already. For another, it is simplest to go with the mechanic already in place, clearly marked decisions in conversational prompts. I don't think accommodating a desire to pretend there is no same-gender content is good for a genuinely inclusive environment.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Uluain

[portichae]

I have never clicked on a prompt marked [Flirt]. They are easy to miss. As Stephen Reid said when elaborating upon BioWare's intention of including same-gender romance content post-launch,

 

That is, the current system of choosing among options, allowing you to avoid those you do not wish to explore already accomodates that desire.

 

I just don't want my social bar filled with unnecessary options that I will never use. Why not allow us to filter what sort of social relationship options appear upon character creation? The filter would be set to a default and for those who want to manipulate the filters have that option.

[Zandilar]

Toggles again?

 

There's a toggle in the game already. One for each opportunity to flirt... You can chose to click it or not.

 

Anyway, I will laugh so long and loud that my tears of mirth will fill the world if a toggle is implemented (for SGRAs) and all it does is grey out the flirt options (which would be a simpler solution than removing it from the dialogue wheel entirely). You can't choose it, but it will still be there in the wheel, taunting you.

 

Sorry, I'm in a weird mood right now.

 

Oh, and last follow up on Jan...

 

She got a letter from her "husband", he addresses her as "my wife", and sent her a nice blue companion gift (I think it might be a cultural artifact, I can't remember exactly what category it sat in, but it was a pre-Jedi Voss coin), and thanked her for all she'd done for them. Implied that he missed her.

 

That's what happens when you participate in an arranged marriage with a person who does genuinely have feelings. Sadly, still no way out of it has been offered and now she's moved on to Corellia, chances are none will be offered, and in fact it probably won't ever be mentioned again.

 

So Jan'neria is stuck, married to a man she doesn't want to be married to.

 

 

Maybe I need to make a post about this elsewhere, because I'm sure there are people who have similar feelings that particular story sequence. Even heterosexual Agents might feel put out by the whole thing. This plot point is very flawed, and Bioware needed to think a bit more deeply about it - especially from the point of view of principled (and/or light side) Sith Empire Agents (Jan's like 700 LS points from Light V). Not all of us are playing amoral James Bond types.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Zandilar

[LyriaFrost]

Oh, and last follow up on Jan...

 

She got a letter from her "husband", he addresses her as "my wife", and sent her a nice blue companion gift (I think it might be a cultural artifact, I can't remember exactly what category it sat in, but it was a pre-Jedi Voss coin), and thanked her for all she'd done for them. Implied that he missed her.

 

That's what happens when you participate in an arranged marriage with a person who does genuinely have feelings. Sadly, still no way out of it has been offered and now she's moved on to Corellia, chances are none will be offered, and in fact it probably won't ever be mentioned again.

 

So Jan'neria is stuck, married to a man she doesn't want to be married to.

If you're bothered by it, perhaps just slip in a bit of RP that says you went back to the planet covertly, sliced into their databanks, and changed who he's married to. Now you're off the hook, with no one the wiser.

 

Or you could send him a holo explaining that the marriage wasn't your idea, and that you only entered into it to get information due to your job as an intelligence agent for the empire. Let him down gently, and leave him behind.

 

The only thing holding you back is yourself, since nothing in-game says "this character is a lesbian". It's all your own RP. Therefore, simply RP your way out of it.

 

Personally, my agent would have just gotten what she wanted from him then knocked him off (if leaving him alive was going to be a problem), or just ignore him from then on. Let him pine away, just like all the other people (both men and women) she's seduced, pumped for intel, then left behind.

 

Maybe I need to make a post about this elsewhere, because I'm sure there are people who have similar feelings that particular story sequence. Even heterosexual Agents might feel put out by the whole thing. This plot point is very flawed, and Bioware needed to think a bit more deeply about it - especially from the point of view of principled (and/or light side) Sith Empire Agents (Jan's like 700 LS points from Light V). Not all of us are playing amoral James Bond types.

 

As I said, just RP your way out of it. "Let him down gently" via a RP'd scenario. It doesn't have to happen on-screen. Hell, my agent and Kaliyo have fooled around, though it's never shown on-screen.

 

There are two ways to solve any problem like this.

 

1) Violence (generally on-screen resolutions via combat)

2) RP (generally off-screen resolutions, with whatever outcome you want it to have)

 

I think you're letting yourself get worked up over nothing.

Edited February 15, 2012 by LyriaFrost

[Jenovan]

I feel like the folks who are concerned about being "bombarded" with a new onslaught of flirt options must currently be playing male Smugglers or male Sith Warriors or something. As a fem BH wrapping up Tatooine, I've had exactly 2 opportunities to flirt, one of which ... no. :x I can't imagine the sudden appearance of TWO new flirt options will overwhelm a male BH if these NPC flirts were suddenly available for both genders.

 

And on the flip side... I have a feeling there wouldn't be a lot of complaints about fem Smugglers suddenly being drowned in lesbian flirt opportunities.

 

It may be different with companions, but if you never flirt with them, don't the flirt options just eventually go away anyway?

 

 

 

Zandilar -- I think it's a valid complaint for the IA story in general. Especially since, as far as I've heard,

 

it's never really addressed again. >_>

 

Hell, my bff IS playing his (gay) Operative as an amoral assassin, and I know he's going to HATE that story point. I'm not sure which way he'd go with it, but he's not going to like it. :|

Edited February 15, 2012 by Jenovan

[Cythereal]

Zandilar -- I think it's a valid complaint for the IA story in general. Especially since, as far as I've heard,

 

it's never really addressed again. >_>

 

Hell, my bff IS playing his (gay) Operative as an amoral assassin, and I know he's going to HATE that story point. I'm not sure which way he'd go with it, but he's not going to like it. :|

 

I think you get two letters after you leave Voss and that's it. My female Agent shrugged and got on with life - she made it perfectly clear during that sequence that it was purely business, and she has no intention to return to Voss. I also RP my Agent as a lesbian, but in that case she bowed to Voss customs in order to complete her mission.

 

 

Your Agent will also fake her own death later, so presumably the husband your Agent leaves behind gets a letter informing him that he's a widower and everything ends well enough.

 

[Galathor_Shan]

I just really want to know when this is going to be available already. I only got the game because I heard about the confirmation that same sex relationships would be allowed. I don't care to read pages about what other people think; as a huge star wars fan who happens to be a gay man, I really just want to experience the realm of TOR in my own way. Whatever scenario BioWare sets that up in, I'll just deal with when the time comes. But I'd like that to be very soon so I can continue my so far very enjoyable experience with the game.

[stuffystuffs]

Personally, my agent would have just gotten what she wanted from him then knocked him off (if leaving him alive was going to be a problem), or just ignore him from then on. Let him pine away, just like all the other people (both men and women) she's seduced, pumped for intel, then left behind.

 

Your Agent sounds like my Agent XD

 

Honestly, the thought of her seriously romancing anyone is odd...I have no idea what type of gal she'd even want to get involved with.

 

Though, I think a relationship with her and Kaliyo would be fun.

[Zandilar]

Okay, this is my really really last post on Jan'neria's situation...

 

@Cythereal - oooh, I wonder why... (*curses self for clicking on spoiler button* ... I couldn't help it, it just sat there saying "click me!")

 

@LyriaFrost - It makes me twitch as a writer, because that's a detail I wouldn't just put in a story without sufficent follow up and/or closure.

 

Sad as it probably is for me to admit this, this sort of thing does make me get worked up. That's the sort of person I am, and so I vent. Yes, I can RP whatever I want in my headcanon for the character, but you know what? It doesn't matter how much I RP her dealing with it, she still can't deal with it the way she would have, had I been the one writing the story.

 

 

In case this hasn't been made clear... Jan'neria is an Operative. She specializes in stealth and infiltration (and seduction, yes, and all those other things a more Agenty agent would do - sorry Snipers). She can't see these writings because she isn't Voss? Fine. She'll get in there and read them anyway. No one can keep her out. That's her speciality.

 

 

It doesn't matter how much I RP stuff in my head -

the game still has her flagged as married to the guy

and if Bioware want to do something with it in the future when in my canon it's already been dealt with? Immersion. Shattered. My own canon invalidated.

 

This is what bothers me about this in between state we're currently in with regard to SGRA. You can have your Kaliyo and your Agent do whatever they want in you canon, until Bioware puts something in the game that directly contradicts that. Which is something they couldn't/wouldn't do with the current canon OGRA companion stories.

[Rayla_Felana]

I really hope Friday brings us all peace of mind.

[Rayla_Felana]

Also a quick question, has anyone gotten on to David Gaider?

[Cythereal]

@Zandilar: Besides the tidbit I mentioned, a decision you can make in the IA story finale rather definitively breaks that relationship off for good.

 

And if the game does bring it up again? Unless Bioware's gone completely out to lunch there will be a "Nothing personal, but the marriage got me what I needed and I never pretended it was anything more." Sure, the letters indicate that your Agent made a bigger impression than she realized or intended, but that sort of thing does happen. So you left a broken heart behind you on Voss. It happens in the Agent's line of work, and you don't have to consummate the marriage if you don't wish to.

 

If it's any consolation, male Agents go through the same storyline with the daughter/niece/whatever.