Jump to content

4/6/31 with Guard?

LightAvalon

By LightAvalon
in Vanguard / Powertech

 Share

Recommended Posts

LightAvalon

LightAvalon

Posted
Posted

Just curious if any of you run around with the 4/6/31 spec while keeping Ion Cell active all the time to use guard. If so how is it and at what level are you trying it at?

 

I do realize you do not get any synergies with guard, you're a lot squishier, and you'd be missing out on the bonuses of using plasma cell.

 

Right now I generally group with a dps guardian and a healer while using the Iron Fist spec. Curious if I'd be more effective as a full dps spec.

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Waagabond

Waagabond

Posted
Posted

Dont do that spec.

 

Go 8/2/31 instead.

 

You need the snare and the candy in tier 2.

Just 4 points in shield and you miss out on some seriously needed talents for PVP.

 

8 in shield is a minimum if you want to run ion cell. In my opinion.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZ0MZbIbbdGGMs.1

 

Is a very nice Tank/Dps spec that will go ALONG way.

 

The only problem is that its not recomended for super commando since you make your first setbonus wasted.

 

I do recomend it for super tech though, or even eliminator.

 

So far, the 8/2/31 is the best spec ive felt with this class, where you retain good defence but gets an immense offence, and you can guard.

 

You miss out on a slight energy gain, storm, 2% shield and 6% absorb, but gets massive damage output, while still using ion cell and having as good a snare as if you was using plasma and talented for it. (15% using ion cell vs 16% running plasma cell).

 

WIth this spec you will destrooooyyy stuff.

Try it and love it. Its overpowered as hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kryptorchid

Kryptorchid

Posted
Posted
3 Skillpoints completely wasted and 5 spent on lackluster skills that don't do anything for DPS? No thanks.

 

I know right! Because we all know the most important thing in PvP is putting out as much damage as possible! I mean, it's not like we have to balance a bunch of different factors like survivability, control, and damage. No siry Bob! PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW.

 

:rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ironzerg

ironzerg

Posted
Posted (edited)
I know right! Because we all know the most important thing in PvP is putting out as much damage as possible! I mean, it's not like we have to balance a bunch of different factors like survivability, control, and damage. No siry Bob! PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Killing the enemy is the most effective status condition you can inflict.

 

You can get enough protection to get 2-3 medals pretty easy just using your taunts.

 

Some people also forget where the other 50% of the damage that's not being inflicted on your Guarded target goes...:eek:

Edited by ironzerg
Link to comment
Share on other sites
VragonBral

VragonBral

Posted
Posted
Dont do that spec.

 

Go 8/2/31 instead.

 

You need the snare and the candy in tier 2.

Just 4 points in shield and you miss out on some seriously needed talents for PVP.

 

8 in shield is a minimum if you want to run ion cell. In my opinion.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZ0MZbIbbdGGMs.1

 

Is a very nice Tank/Dps spec that will go ALONG way.

 

The only problem is that its not recomended for super commando since you make your first setbonus wasted.

 

I do recomend it for super tech though, or even eliminator.

 

So far, the 8/2/31 is the best spec ive felt with this class, where you retain good defence but gets an immense offence, and you can guard.

 

You miss out on a slight energy gain, storm, 2% shield and 6% absorb, but gets massive damage output, while still using ion cell and having as good a snare as if you was using plasma and talented for it. (15% using ion cell vs 16% running plasma cell).

 

WIth this spec you will destrooooyyy stuff.

Try it and love it. Its overpowered as hell.

 

I use this same build. And approve heavily. It's not overpowered though. It's just good for my playstyle.

 

Some people may enjoy the Parakeet build more, or Ironfist from Taugrim. Or Oozo's build. And do very well with those!

 

But the 8/2/31 spec is my favorite of all and I do the best with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kryptorchid

Kryptorchid

Posted
Posted
Killing the enemy is the most effective status condition you can inflict.

 

You can get enough protection to get 2-3 medals pretty easy just using your taunts.

 

Some people also forget where the other 50% of the damage that's not being inflicted on your Guarded target goes...:eek:

 

My point was PvP isn't as cut and dry as doing one thing the best you can. It all comes down to what your character is capable of, and if you can utilize that capability. Going full Assault with Plasma Cell is no doubt the best damage we can do in PvP, but rolling with Guard up on a healer will increase you and your team's survivability way more than the personal damage you lose out on is worth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ururururu

ururururu

Posted
Posted
That could work actually. You would lose out on AP but would have the extra Elemental crit chance and 20% extra armor pen.

 

Real cons I only see are AP and Burnout's critical chance. Thats relatively it.

 

I had thought 9% aim was better than 3% tech crit, 30% periodic elemental damage on targets below 30% health. But that's theorycraft, I don't know how to test that.

 

Losing AP does suck. But my expectation was 20% HIB penetration, 6% elemental crit, & 9%am>burnout was better. Maybe not in pvp, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VragonBral

VragonBral

Posted
Posted
I had thought 9% aim was better than 3% tech crit, 30% periodic elemental damage on targets below 30% health. But that's theorycraft, I don't know how to test that.

 

Losing AP does suck. But my expectation was 20% HIB penetration, 6% elemental crit, & 9%am>burnout was better. Maybe not in pvp, though.

 

Your right that the 9% aim is good. But overall you would need to have a lot of aim in order for it to offset the flat 3% crit increase.

 

It's a great passive, and scales with Aim. But I like the flat Crit. I didin't bring it up as its a matter of preference at that point.

 

Overall the main differences to your build is the 20% better HIB penetration, and that goes a LONG way to help in DPS inside PvP and PvE.

 

Overall, I will try and respec to that build tonight and come back here with some numbers maybe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ururururu

ururururu

Posted
Posted (edited)

how sure are you that 3% tech crit is > 9% aim? if its close, then the 30% periodic elemental damage for targets under 30% health puts it over the top.

 

which means this is the spec worth trying.. hmm

 

I bet its fun in pvp too.

 

what about moving the 2 points in rapid recharge -> sweltering heat? then you can switch to plasma cell for pure dps as needed. (I've never been a fan of cooldown decreasers).

Edited by ururururu
Link to comment
Share on other sites
VragonBral

VragonBral

Posted
Posted
how sure are you that 3% tech crit is > 9% aim? if its close, then the 30% periodic elemental damage for targets under 30% health puts it over the top.

 

When running the 9% Aim talents. I had a base of 1252 from gear and everything factored in without the 9%. With, it was 1363. Which only gave me a base 2.33 increase to my Critical chance. But that applied to everything and gave me extra base damage. (Don't remember those off the top of my head. This may have been because I was undergeared at the time I was using it. Not sure.)

 

 

Though the 3% flat critical chance from Burnout is nice, the 30% extra DoT damage is only useful every so often. Not constantly.

 

I am no min-maxer by any standards, and have little knowledge in complete numbers. As I am so use to a combat log. LOL. I will switch out my spec' tonight and see how much a difference the Aim makes to Crit/Bonus Damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jedistreen

jedistreen

Posted
Posted (edited)

for running with ion cell I prefer a 'Iron Fist' build. Points in ST up to jetcharge, Tactics up to gut, and 2 points in the assault talent that buffs the damage of stock strike/rocket punch.

 

Not only does this allow you to use guard, you get a gap closer, buffs to HIB/stock strike, and a baseline 9% reduced damage.

 

To find the build search 'taugrim' on the forums or search Iron Fist taugrimtaugrim on Youtube. He also has a live stream on twitch TV.

Edited by jedistreen
Link to comment
Share on other sites
taugrimtaugrim

taugrimtaugrim

Posted
Posted
Just curious if any of you run around with the 4/6/31 spec while keeping Ion Cell active all the time to use guard. If so how is it and at what level are you trying it at?

 

I do realize you do not get any synergies with guard, you're a lot squishier, and you'd be missing out on the bonuses of using plasma cell.

 

You basically answered your own question.

 

There is no synergy with tanking stance unless you have 8 points in the tanking tree.

 

Go 8/2/31 instead.

 

8 in shield is a minimum if you want to run ion cell. In my opinion.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZ0MZbIbbdGGMs.1

 

^

 

Exactly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VragonBral

VragonBral

Posted
Posted (edited)

Okay, this is with my level 44 Vanguard (As I couldn't afford the respec on my BH).

 

WITH BURNOUT

Aim: Base: 226. Bonus: 634

 

Damage Bonus: 172.4

Critical Ratios: 6.98%

Bonus Tech Damage: 172.4

Tech Critical:6.98%

 

With flat critical chance of 5% = 11.98%. +additive 3% for Burnout Critical brings it to: 14.98%

 

Base Damage (Flat, Weapon): 179-268

Base Damage Bonus: 197+

Total: 376-465 damage.

 

High Impact Bolt: 872-985 damage. (Without Brutal Impact)

Ion Pulse: 504-555 damage. (Without Intimidation)

StockStrike: 906-938 damage. (Without Heavy Stock)

 

Incendiery Round DoT: 797 over 18 Seconds.

I.R. DoT with Enemy Under 30% HP: 1036 damage over 18 Seconds*.

 

(*Now this damage is calculated as if you started the DoT right as the enemy reached 30% HP left over. This will fluctuate a lot depending on how long it has left on the target. Such as if you started the DoT when their at 100% HP. This I can't calculate as easily without a combat Log.)

 

 

 

 

WITH STEELY RESOLVE

 

Aim: Base: 226 Bonus: 711

 

Total: 937

 

Damage Bonus: 187 (15+ from above)

Critical Ratios: 7.93% (0.95% increase)

Bonus Tech Damage: 187 (15+)

Tech Critical: 7.97% (0.95% increase)

 

With flat critical chance of 5% = 12.93%.

 

Base Damage (Flat, Weapon): 179-268

Base Damage Bonus: 213+ (16+ difference)

Total: 392-481 damage. (16+ difference)

 

High Impact Bolt: 901-1014 (Without Brutal Impact((29+ difference on minimum, and 29+ difference on maximum))

Ion Pulse: 522-573 (Without Intimidation((18+ on minimum and 18+ on maximum))

StockStrike: 941-973 (without Heavy Stock((35+ on minimum and 35+ on Maximum)

 

So far it seems that your getting a 2.85% increase to your damage across the board. Not entirely sure. As I am no math wiz. And I am no master number crusher. Not entirely sure my equations were exact.

 

And it seems you only barely gain 1% more in flat Critcal chance with Steely Resolve(12.93%). Meanwhile you retain the higher amount with Tech attacks, having Burnout(14.98%).

 

Meanwhile you can gain a 30% increase to you DoT damage once an enemy is below 30% HP.

 

The calculations come down to two choices, Either have more Aim and have a steady increase that is not based RNG or situation as heavily. Or Burnout that affects certain situations heavily, especially when stacking DoT's on low health Targets.

 

 

The gap disparity probably raises with levels and Aim obviously. As you collect more Aim, Steely Resolve has a greater impact. So maybe it has a greater effect on higher level characters with full set's/equipment.

 

Right now at this level, the difference isn't all that much. And it really is preference. I will have to try these numbers all over again on my Pyrotech once I get some more credits in order to reset my tree once again.

 

 

 

p.s., if my calculations are wrong, please let me know so I can fix the above text. All the percentage removals from Talents were done with my calculator in reverse fashion and some theory thrown in. The flat amounts and critical increases/changes were all from tooltips within the game.

Edited by VragonBral
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Khremlin

Khremlin

Posted
Posted

I run 8/7/26

 

(Ion snare) / (power armor) / (full relexive shield-2/3 rof - full assualt trooper)

 

Gearing with 2 pc combat medic, 2 piece columi supercommando for 18 sec shield time... mods swapped for power/crit/surge.

 

Excellent balance of damage, mitigation, and i get an 18 sec shield every minute or so when I'm under fire.

 

* only 3 'wasted' points in superheated plasma during pvp. PVE damage certainly isn't optimal, but it feels way better than parakeet.

 

Miss storm though, won't lie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...