Jagerinho Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Is Lucas writing a serious movie or a comedy? YOU CAN'T TELL! My head hurts. Lucas's first scene: "GRrrrrr, I am dark and I chopped off your head!!" - Anakin "Oh look, R2D2 sprayed oil on the clumsy droids...lololololo...tee hee so funny" it is amusing how you can go from slapstick comedy to killing children. Also, no one has answered my question, what does the Trade Federation trade in? Droid Armies? Edited February 10, 2012 by Jagerinho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeedaiFiresaber Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) did you actually read the opening crawl? if not ehre it is Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute. Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battleships, the greedy Trade Federation has stopped all shipping to the small planet of Naboo. While the congress of the Republic endlessly debates this alarming chain of events, the Supreme Chancellor has secretly dispatched two Jedi Knights, the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy, to settle the conflict says right there that they are trying to settle a dispute over taxation. did you not see sidiuous discussing with them the whole time? did you figure out it was palaptine? who then suddenly becomes chancellor? you gotta which and comprehend whats happening. so then how does the Republic senate not believe what's goin on at Naboo? I'd imagine trade taxation, and a 'legal blockade' would pass through the senate no? It still doesn't eaplain why they are taking orders from Sidious? what's their motivation? What did he promise them? What is so important that stopping trade Naboo couldn't self sustain itself as a planet? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. why does the Trade Federation have this enourmous army of battle droids? why do we see a whole lot of these ships in orbit...but the final battle, there is now only 1 controlling all of the armies....where did the whole blockade go? Edited February 10, 2012 by JeedaiFiresaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seductivpancakes Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Is Lucas writing a serious movie or a comedy? YOU CAN'T TELL! My head hurts. Lucas's first scene: "GRrrrrr, I am dark and I chopped off your head!!" - Anakin "Oh look, R2D2 sprayed oil on the clumsy droids...lololololo...tee hee so funny" Just like how Gimli and Legolas banter on about each other, but wait LOTS OF DUDES DYING IN BATTLE. Yet no one complains about that in the LoTR movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 it is amusing how you can go from slapstick comedy to killing children. Also, no one has answered my question, what does the Trade Federation trade in? Droid Armies? We can't get answers to those because Lucas pulled all of it out his &%$ ten minuted before production. They even have it on record that the scripts weren't exactly written. He just kind of made it up. He was more concerned with the CGI...and couches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Just like how Gimli and Legolas banter on about each other, but wait LOTS OF DUDES DYING IN BATTLE. Yet no one complains about that in the LoTR movies. That's called comic relief and its not used in the OPENING SCENE to set the stage for the movie. It also shows a human side to those characters. There have been countless articles written about why Lucas is (now) a poor movie director. He doesn't know what style he wants. I dont have to repeat it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seductivpancakes Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 so then how does the Republic senate not believe what's goin on at Naboo? I'd imagine trade taxation, and a 'legal blockade' would pass through the senate no? It still doesn't eaplain why they are taking orders from Sidious? what's their motivation? What did he promise them? What is so important that stopping trade Naboo couldn't self sustain itself as a planet? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. why does the Trade Federation have this enourmous army of battle droids? why do we see a whole lot of these ships in orbit...but the final battle, there is now only 1 controlling all of the armies....where did the whole blockade go? Eh honestly, when I first saw it, I thought they were just doing what Sidious wanted out of fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowstrodamus Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 so then how does the Republic senate not believe what's goin on at Naboo? I'd imagine trade taxation, and a 'legal blockade' would pass through the senate no? It still doesn't eaplain why they are taking orders from Sidious? what's their motivation? What did he promise them? What is so important that stopping trade Naboo couldn't self sustain itself as a planet? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. why does the Tradwe Federation have this enourmous army of battle droids> why do we see a whole lot of these ships in orbit...but the final battle, there is now only 1 controlling all of the armies.... why does the empire need a giant death star to destroy a little rebellion? why did they make it so powerful except for one tiny little opening a proton torpedo can blow it up? why didnt they protect it better? why did they capture leia to find the rebel base instead of maybe following her? tracking her? its the empire theyve got endless resources. if they can just blow up a planet why are more systems not rebelling? all the questions you ask about the PT can be asked about the OT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Eh honestly, when I first saw it, I thought they were just doing what Sidious wanted out of fear. Fear of what?? He hasn't even revealed his power. Thats why the prequels are so. freakin. terrible. Everyone is an idiot, including the jedis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seductivpancakes Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) That's called comic relief and its not used in the OPENING SCENE to set the stage for the movie. It also shows a human side to those characters. There have been countless articles written about why Lucas is (now) a poor movie director. He doesn't know what style he wants. I dont have to repeat it here. Really? Because I felt the opening scene in A New Hope where the two droids avoid fire and chatter with each other, quite comical. Also, I don't think that R2 vs two super battle droids, is the opening scene. Movie articles are usually opinionated. Like movie critic reviews. Edited February 10, 2012 by Seductivpancakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowstrodamus Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Fear of what?? they know hes a sith, thats pretty fricken scary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeedaiFiresaber Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) why does the empire need a giant death star to destroy a little rebellion? why did they make it so powerful except for one tiny little opening a proton torpedo can blow it up? why didnt they protect it better? why did they capture leia to find the rebel base instead of maybe following her? tracking her? its the empire theyve got endless resources. if they can just blow up a planet why are more systems not rebelling? all the questions you ask about the PT can be asked about the OT To strike fear in the hearts of the galaxy..this is stated in the movie. They were over confident about the Death Star and that 1 man fighters posed no threat...something that size is bound to have a design flaw to exploit...again stated in the movie. They didn't protect it better cause again..look at Tarkin's arrogance and over confidence. They captured Leia to try to retriveve the death star plans, which escaped with the droids. Then they DID track her to yavin 4. all this was shown in the movie without having to read books by authors who are filling in the holes. Edited February 10, 2012 by JeedaiFiresaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seisaan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) did you actually read the opening crawl? if not ehre it is Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute. Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battleships, the greedy Trade Federation has stopped all shipping to the small planet of Naboo. While the congress of the Republic endlessly debates this alarming chain of events, the Supreme Chancellor has secretly dispatched two Jedi Knights, the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy, to settle the conflict says right there that they are trying to settle a dispute over taxation. did you not see sidiuous discussing with them the whole time? did you figure out it was palaptine? who then suddenly becomes chancellor? you gotta which and comprehend whats happening. That still doesnt explain why the Trade Federation have armies of battle droids, what resources are so critical to the people of Naboo that they have to call if a "crisis", why the Trade Federation armies need to invade, why the senate didnt believe the testimony of two Jedi Knights even while they were already "debating the alarming chain of events", or why we didnt see the effects of the blockade on Naboo. Hell, from the movie, the entire population of Theed consists of the Queen, her handmaidens, a few advisers, and then 30 pilots. Naboo is a lush planet, what resources were so crucial and why? You could debate that the Empire's formation or existence was never really explained, but it didn't need to be. Episode IV was just a classic adventure story with the Empire merely being a means to tell the story. But then Lucas tried to expand the Star Wars universe and add in space politics. Thats fine, but when you do that, people's expectations are going to shift. We were never told about the Empire blockading trade routes or what laws did what because it was never relevant. But when you make those things relevant and try to make that the whole plot point of a movie, the motivations and reasoning need to be made clear, especially when this takes place in a society where the political system could be so alien to our own. Edited February 10, 2012 by Seisaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seductivpancakes Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Fear of what?? He hasn't even revealed his power. Thats why the prequels are so. freakin. terrible. Everyone is an idiot, including the jedis. And why is the Empire Evil? We later learned that is because they are willing to use the Death Star on innocent people and planets. Pretty damn evil. Why are the Trade Federation afraid of Sidious? Then his apprentice shows up and turns out is more kick butt then Jedis are, in which we saw was pretty kick butt themselves. And that was just the apprentice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowstrodamus Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 why do they need to strike fear into the heart of the galaxy? theyre an oppresive imperial regime, im pretty sure thats threatening enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeedaiFiresaber Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 why do they need to strike fear into the heart of the galaxy? theyre an oppresive imperial regime, im pretty sure thats threatening enough tarkin says fear will keep the star systems in line now that they dissolved the senate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagnarokJC Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 they know hes a sith, thats pretty fricken scary "We will unravel the mystery of the Sith." - Mace Windu, Episode I That doesn't sound like someone who knows enough about something to be afraid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seductivpancakes Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 "We will unravel the mystery of the Sith." - Mace Windu, Episode I That doesn't sound like someone who knows enough about something to be afraid of it. I sort of agree, but he is Samuel L Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechavomit Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 they know hes a sith, thats pretty fricken scary They don't. Noone besides Dooku new. Not even Grievous or Ventress new that Palpi = Sidious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowstrodamus Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 all the trade federation knew was that sidious was sith, thats who they were dealing with the whole time. ehs the one that ordered them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wusword Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) That still doesnt explain why the Trade Federation have armies of battle droids, what resources are so critical to the people of Naboo that they have to call if a "crisis", why the Trade Federation armies need to invade, why the senate didnt believe the testimony of two Jedi Knights even while they were already "debating the alarming chain of events", or why we didnt see the effects of the blockade on Naboo. All of this falls under "means to tell a story," just like you chalk up the formation/existence of the Empire to in Episode 4. Who cares "why" the Trade Federation has an army, I'm sure that as a trade federation, they have a company (or companies) that produce battle droids. The resources Naboo needs could be any number of things as we don't know what gets produced on Naboo, they could be like the US in that they grow a lot of food but need manufactured goods brought in or vise versa. And what effects should we have seen? Should people have been starving in the streets or running around naked? At the end of the day it doesn't matter because the blockade is only there to create a point of conflict. Hell, from the movie, the entire population of Theed consists of the Queen, her handmaidens, a few advisers, and then 30 pilots. Naboo is a lush planet, what resources were so crucial and why? From the original trilogy there are under 10 planets in the entire Galaxy, and one of them got blown up. We never see Coruscant, hell we never see a very populated city. The only 2 cities we see are Mos Eisley and Cloud City, and Cloud City looks to have more security personal then actual people. You could debate that the Empire's formation or existence was never really explained, but it didn't need to be. Episode IV was just a classic adventure story with the Empire merely being a means to tell the story. If you didn't need to explain the formation or existence of the Empire there is no reason to explain the formation or existence of the Trade Federation. But then Lucas tried to expand the Star Wars universe and add in space politics. Because an open arms rebellion doesn't have anything to do with "space politics?" Oh yeah, it doesn't because we don't know where the Empire or the Rebellion came from. We are made to assume the Rebellion is the "good guys" while the Empire is the "bad guys," yet we have 0 information as to why the rebels rebelled. It's almost like they are hating because they are haters Thats fine, but when you do that, people's expectations are going to shift. We were never told about the Empire blockading trade routes or what laws did what because it was never relevant. But when you make those things relevant and try to make that the whole plot point of a movie, the motivations and reasoning need to be made clear, especially when this takes place in a society where the political system could be so alien to our own. So in episode 4-6 you were able to make conclusions concerning the goals and actions of both the Rebellion and the Empire but you couldn't do the same with the Trade Federation and Naboo? You couldn't pull information from the movies themselves and your own intelligence to fill in gaps that may need filling? This doesn't sound like Lucas' failing as much as your own. Edited February 11, 2012 by Wusword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxBreemenxx Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 As it stands the only thing there's no excuse for is the Stars Wars Christmas Special (ugh) I watched it for the Boba Fett/Han Solo cartoon but the rest was pretty painful lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliggXx Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 The plot and dialogue of the prequels was so vapid and devoid of humanity that I literally get annoyed just thinking about the movies. I am simply unable to enjoy the movies because of the sheer stupidity of the characters, the implausibility of their actions and decisions and Lucas' inability to give us the slightest hint as to the motivation of most of the characters in the film. The Red Letter media guy does a better job of parsing the film than I can, but he certainly isn't saying anything that we didn't know already. He articulate some of the biggest plot holes that we could feel while watching the movie even if we couldn't put it into words at the time. I walked out of each movie with a distinct "w t f" experience. No one made ANY sense. Not even a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seisaan Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) All of this falls under "means to tell a story," just like you chalk up the formation/existence of the Empire to in Episode 4. Who cares "why" the Trade Federation has an army, I'm sure that as a trade federation, they have a company (or companies) that produce battle droids. The resources Naboo needs could be any number of things as we don't know what gets produced on Naboo, they could be like the US in that they grow a lot of food but need manufactured goods brought in or vise versa. And what effects should we have seen? Should people have been starving in the streets or running around naked? At the end of the day it doesn't matter because the blockade is only there to create a point of conflict. But WHY would they have battle droids? There's no conflict, hell that's why the Republic needs the Clone Armies, they dont have a standing army. If the Republic didn't have an army, why would they let a Trade Federation mass produce battle droids and war ships? And yes, we should see the effects. Look to the second timeline video Bioware released. When the Mandalorians blockaded a trade route, you saw images of riots and the narrator spoke of the desperate situation; that the senate was willing to surrender right then and there as a result of the blockade and the riots. Why couldnt we see that on Naboo? It would have given much more importance to the whole scenario and led to further character development for Amidala as she had to make a choice to sign the treaty or continue to let her people suffer. It is an image we never see that would have greatly increased the audience's emotional involvement and understanding of the situation. Yes, Amildala says her people suffer, but, showing something carries far more weight than telling about it. And yes, the blockade was just to start the conflict, but what was the motivation for Gunray and his Federation? Why would they risk everything for this Sith Lord? What did he promise them? What was in it for Gunray? These are things that are needed for the audience to care about the conflict. From the original trilogy there are under 10 planets in the entire Galaxy, and one of them got blown up. We never see Coruscant, hell we never see a very populated city. The only 2 cities we see are Mos Eisley and Cloud City, and Cloud City looks to have more security personal then actual people. And from Phantom Menace there would be 3 planets. Look at Tattooine and Coruscant. Both seem lively as there are people walking around or entire traffic lanes of speeders constantly in just about every shot. You cant call Mos Eisley underpopulated when there are people constantly in just about every shot. What about Theed? You never see any civilians. In Cloud City you see people getting evacuated once Lando gives the order and even before then you saw at least SOME people walking around. If you didn't need to explain the formation or existence of the Empire there is no reason to explain the formation or existence of the Trade Federation. I never said I want to know why the Trade Federation exists, I wanted to know their motivation for starting everything. The Empire controls the galaxy and then a group of rebels rises up to oppose them so now they must defend the Galaxy and track down any rebel cells. They are a generic, evil Empire that just wants to control the Galaxy and is willing to use any means to accomplish this goal. There is nothing generic about the Trade Federation. We know why Palpatine uses them, but, again, whats in it for the Trade Federation? Why do this to begin with? They dont know he has sway over the Senate and can lift whatever space taxes pissed them off. Their motivations are never made clear. Because an open arms rebellion doesn't have anything to do with "space politics?" Oh yeah, it doesn't because we don't know where the Empire or the Rebellion came from. We are made to assume the Rebellion is the "good guys" while the Empire is the "bad guys," yet we have 0 information as to why the rebels rebelled. It's almost like they are hating because they are haters Its the bare bones of politics. We dont see the senators or other political officials debating over the rebellion like we do in Phantom Menace. And there's nothing to assume, the Rebels are the good guys and the Empire are evil. There's no grey area as we never see Stormtroopers do any acts of kindness or take pity on someone and we never see a rebel soldier start gunning down captured Imperial troops. The motivation for the rebels is never initially made clear, but after the Death Star destroys Alderaan we understand why the Empire has to be stopped. Thats not to say the Trade Federation didn't also commit acts of evil like blockading Naboo and invading, but the way the situation unfolded was a jumbled mess. The treaty is never outlined, nor is it stated why the Trade Federation needs the invasion legalized. Hell, if their motivation is to get the Senate to change the taxes, why invade to begin with? Just keep the planet hostage and threaten invasion unless something happens. Successfully invading accomplishes nothing for Gunray and his organization. So in episode 4-6 you were able to make conclusions concerning the goals and actions of both the Rebellion and the Empire but you couldn't do the same with the Trade Federation and Naboo? You couldn't pull information from the movies themselves and your own intelligence to fill in gaps that may need filling? This doesn't sound like Lucas' failing as much as your own. The thing is, I shouldnt have to fill in gaps on my own. That is terrible story telling. Not to mention, the complexity of the motivations are vastly different. The Empire is evil and wants to control the Galaxy while the Rebels are good and want to free it. Its simplistic and doesnt require any more thought than that. The Phantom Menace brings in trade routes, taxes, politics, treaties, etc. When you add complexity to the story, the characters have to follow suit. They cant just be generic villains anymore. Lucas attempted this, but, again, failed to make everyone's motivations clear and failed to make most people even give a damn about what was going on. Not to mention adding such complexities is pointless when you are trying to market your movie for children. Edited February 11, 2012 by Seisaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) why does the empire need a giant death star to destroy a little rebellion? why did they make it so powerful except for one tiny little opening a proton torpedo can blow it up? why didnt they protect it better? why did they capture leia to find the rebel base instead of maybe following her? tracking her? its the empire theyve got endless resources. if they can just blow up a planet why are more systems not rebelling? all the questions you ask about the PT can be asked about the OT Umm, not really. The questions you asked are all easily explained without even knowing the back-story. They make sense in and of themselves. The Empire created a space ship the size of a moon. It's not surprising they missed one 2-meter vent opening as a vulnerability, especially when it's clear it was only discovered after a great deal of analysis by experts, and it was so small that when all was said and done, it was only a vulnerability because Luke could use the force. And we don't need exposition to tell us why the Empire is evil. It's clear that they're evil by the the things they DO in the movie. And once you figure out that the Empire is evil enough to choke PoW's to death and blow up planets that have no weapons, you don't need further exposition to explain why there's a rebellion. That's how you tell a story. Kidnapping important political leaders, being unable to locate and squash a tiny insurgency--these are all things with ample real-life historical precedent. The British Empire was huge compared to the early American Revolutionaries, who were poorly trained and equipped, had no navy, and had to communicate through primitive spy tactics in order to keep from being flushed out and hung. The Republic in Star Wars is analagous to revolutionaries fighting with guerilla tactics. Makes sense. Works within the narrative. In short, nearly everything in the original movie makes sense. Nearly everything in Empire Strikes Back makes sense. RotJ is when we first start seeing certain things that don't make sense, like how does the Empire get its butt kicked on Endor by diminutive, clumsy, but highly marketable walking Teddy bears, and why does Luke becomes the focal point and hero of a battle that his involvement obviously did nothing to assist. Luke's entire confrontation with Palpatine was pretty much beside the point. The battle was won through conventional military means. Luke ends up basically using Republic assets to play out his personal issues while doing nothing to help the Republic win a pivotal battle. And RotJ, not coincidentally, is generally considered the worst of the original three movies. Almost nothing in Phantom Menace made sense. It was ludicrous. Why does this Trade Federation have an army was only one of about twenty head-scratch things that happened in Ep 1, not the least of which is "how does this little kid just happen to know how to fly this fighter that just happens to have a helmet just the right size for him in it?" Edited February 11, 2012 by Mannic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLonelyTusken Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Most arguments made against the prequels are nit-picky, why did the Jedi take Jar Jar's way to Theed? Because they didn't know where it was and were in a forest surrounded by a droid army. Yes that actually is a thing he was annoyed by in Redlettermedia. If we nit pick any good movie you can see how dumb it is, but little plot holes and inconsistencies can be found in any great movie, lets look at The Wizard of Oz, one of the most famous movies ever made. Dorothy, a woman with no back round is one day, sucked into a vortex on her farm where she lives with her awful aunt and uncle. She is taken to a magical land that she doesn't know of, suddenly a bunch of munchkins come and sing a song, why? I don't know. Then a fairy comes and tells her she has to take the slippers off a random witch she just destroyed with her house that was also swept away with the vortex. She decides to take these strangers advice and follow a road for no reason, she then meets a scarecrow with also no back round, why should she let him fallow her? No reason so lets progress with the movie. She then finds a tin-man,with no back round, no explanation, just needs a heart. Why should she let him fallow her? No reason let's move on. They travel to a forest where they find a Lion, but lions don't even live in forests? Whatever lets move on. Then they learn of a wicked witch. What does she have to do with Dorothy getting home? Nothing so lets go kill her. Well they battle some weird flying monkies who also have no reason for being there at all and then melt the witch with water... Wierd? whatever lets move on. Didn't even describe what she was doing or where she came from or who she was, just like Greivous complaints in Redlettermedia? Anyways, they finally get to this city that's made of emeralds I guess? Or is it just painted green? Whatever, lets move on. They find a weird ghost head that yells at them, apparently hes the wizard she needs to get home, so hes actually a midget behind a curtain. Nobody could figure this out until now? Who are these people and whats going on? Whatever, she goes home on a balloon, if that makes any sense, which it doesn't, and then finds out it was all a dream, and then appreciates her awful step parents a little more. Hooray. Mash that together with many bad acting scenes and lame jokes and you've got a really good movie. Why? Because it's a fun adventure that people enjoy watching, it doesn't have to make sense at every turn. but it's enjoyable and people who don't think so should just leave it be and not watch them. TLDR: If you nitpick any good movie, it will sound like an incoherent piece of crud, so stop it an enjoy the movie for what it is. Edited February 11, 2012 by TheLonelyTusken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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