Has Bioware already lost the PvP base?

[Yfelsung]

They may have lost Arena players, but I don't really consider them PvPers.

 

They're more duelists.

 

The strategies in a confined box with one goal (to kill) don't translate well into the open world or objective based PvP.

[Jeffor]

The open world PVP aspect seems to be lacking. Leveling on a PVP server I only ever see a Sith when I am already engaged with NPCs, Fair enough on a PVP server but this kind of thing never leads to bigger fights. They just run off and wait for another easy kill. I want to see big, epic Star Wars battles all over the galaxy. That's what I signed up for and I don't see much of it. WZs are fun but not real PVP to a lot of us. I want open world PVP and this game has a long way to go in that regard. Right now you don't even get valor points for an open world kill and that is wrong on so many levels.

[Jeffor]

Balance is not the big issue. Content and philosophy are. The patch makes single kills count. That tells you the mentality of the game. Boy, lets not sweat winning a virtually non existant war lets just make sure we get credit for our personal kills. I would even be willing to grind for the gear if there was an epic war if I was working towards being a part of. But theres not. As is, there is no light at the end of the pvp tunnel. Just endless WZ's with winning or losing having no consequences in the big picture. Pvp is just a whole bunch of little games that do not affect each other and have no bearing on the persistant world. I want the massive put back in MMORPG.

 

Yes where's this huge war that's supposed to be going on? We signed up to fight a war not play HUtball. Don't get me wrong I know that HB can be fun but I want to fight in an epic Star Wars war. WZ do not equal a large galaxy-wide war.

[Rheeling]

Good post. And unfortunately, I agree. Sadly, SWTOR has even made me change how I pick up MMO's now. I'm excited for GW2, but I won't be pre-ordering or anything. I'm going to wait about a month or so after release to see what people say about it.

 

I will admit, I do have fun with SWTOR, and think it's more fun than WoW. But, it has plenty of problems which can't be overlooked by any amount of rose-colored glasses.

 

I understood that they wouldn't be committing too much into the PvP, since they said it wasn't the focus by far. But the problems they're having with PvP content is ridiculous. If TERA or GW2 have quality PvP, then I'll be leaving for those as well.

 

I love Star Wars, but sadly I think that the theme is one of the only things really keeping me around at this point. The theme is even half the fun, which can be good or bad. But in this case, I think it's more of a bad thing.

 

Edit: I think the balance they achieved is incredible though. I'll give them that.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Rheeling

[Rheeling]

Good post. And unfortunately, I agree. Sadly, SWTOR has even made me change how I pick up MMO's now. I'm excited for GW2, but I won't be pre-ordering or anything. I'm going to wait about a month or so after release to see what people say about it.

 

I will admit, I do have fun with SWTOR, and think it's more fun than WoW. But, it has plenty of problems which can't be overlooked by any amount of rose-colored glasses.

 

I understood that they wouldn't be committing too much into the PvP, since they said it wasn't the focus by far. But the problems they're having with PvP content is ridiculous. If TERA or GW2 have quality PvP, then I'll be leaving for those as well.

 

I love Star Wars, but sadly I think that the theme is one of the only things really keeping me around at this point. The theme is even half the fun, which can be good or bad. But in this case, I think it's more of a bad thing.

 

Whoops. Clicked quote instead of edit. Please delete

Edited February 10, 2012 by Rheeling

[Pulpp]

The open world PVP aspect seems to be lacking. Leveling on a PVP server I only ever see a Sith when I am already engaged with NPCs, Fair enough on a PVP server but this kind of thing never leads to bigger fights. They just run off and wait for another easy kill. I want to see big, epic Star Wars battles all over the galaxy. That's what I signed up for and I don't see much of it. WZs are fun but not real PVP to a lot of us. I want open world PVP and this game has a long way to go in that regard. Right now you don't even get valor points for an open world kill and that is wrong on so many levels.

 

If that's what you want, I genuinely don't think you will ever find that here. For a couple of reasons really, but mainly because the engine doesn't support a large enough pop and combat scales incredibly poorly with larger numbers (and to a lesser degree there is no death penalty whatsoever).

 

As for me, I quit/uninstalled before my sub expired. I'm not ragey like a lot of other odd people -- I got what I wanted (single player trooper story) and never really expected an end game.

[golfwang]

They may have lost Arena players, but I don't really consider them PvPers.

 

They're more duelists.

 

The strategies in a confined box with one goal (to kill) don't translate well into the open world or objective based PvP.

 

At the end of the day if you're primarily playing a game for the pvp, you're a pvper.

 

We need to get past the distinctions in pvp game types, that's not really what this post is about and I'm sure there are other posts tackling that topic.

[golfwang]

Without a doubt the most biased question I have seen on the internet to date.

 

 

The PvP is good. It can take some improvements but I really hope they don't take them from biased viewpoints.

 

No, it isn't.

[Baramosx]

I have fun here and there with pvp in swtor but it is the only mmo I have played for any length of time since uo in the late 90s where I don't pvp just for the sake of pvping. Once I get my dailies over with im ready go log.

 

If my guild wasn't here there is nearly a 0% chance I would still be playing.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Baramosx

[Forsbacka]

They may have lost Arena players, but I don't really consider them PvPers.

 

They're more duelists.

 

The strategies in a confined box with one goal (to kill) don't translate well into the open world or objective based PvP.

 

Youre a funny man, every top team in RBGs were made out mostly of high rated arena people. There is only 1 or 2 viable tactics in BGs or in this case WZs at higher level so you dont need to be an rocket scientist to learn how to play in "objective based" PvP. But the skill controlling your char and controlling those "duels" that decides how the WZ ends is harder to learn which arena people has covered. Every top rated team in WZs will be those arena people you mentioned.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Forsbacka

[Bloodtau]

They may have lost Arena players, but I don't really consider them PvPers.

 

They're more duelists.

 

The strategies in a confined box with one goal (to kill) don't translate well into the open world or objective based PvP.

 

This game doesn't have open world, that's the problem.

Illum is just a larger, glorified warzone instance.

[PandaVello]

I agree with the OP 100%. I unsubbed a couple weeks ago and find the PvP in this game so completely lacking and the continual and obvious lack of anything resembling care by the pvp dev team that I uninstalled with a week left of play time.

 

I'm keeping my eye out for the pvp changes over the next few weeks to see if I sub again, but from the dismal display of crap (or lack of) that pours forth in the weekly patches about PvP I have serious doubts the team even knows what the player base wants.

 

I've been watching this game since the day it was announced, so I'm still hopeful but I have a feeling the PvP base will definitely be moving on, and only hasn't so far due to no real home to go to.

Edited February 11, 2012 by PandaVello

[Firefling]

I could not wait for TOR to come out...

 

And I am 99% pvp or bust. I have played most major MMO's since SWG. PVP based in all.

Myself and my arena partner spent a year talking about every little bit of TOR news we found on the net.

 

I'm very disappointed.

 

I rolled pvp servers and after maybe 200 levels over 2 account and many toons from 50 and down... I've seen world pvp maybe 4 times.

 

Ilum... read the forums.

 

And WZ's well... read the forums.

 

I have not quit yet but I did close my second account and my play time is down 90%. I still hope the best for TOR. I hope they get it together.

[Warcranium]

I find it funny how people are calling PvP in this game "team/objective based" when on low population servers, you're damn lucky to get a balanced team even at primetime. Literally 90% of my matches have either my team consisting of less than 8 players, the enemy team consisting of more than 8 players or both. I am republic on an empire dominated, light pop pvp server and I have noticed a massive drop in population in a very short period of time so something is definitely wrong whether the Bioware apologists want to admit it or not. Whether the game is marketed toward "hardcore" PvPers or not, I think people underestimate how important PvP is to an MMO's subscription base.

 

And yes, I know this is all purely anecdotal and blah blah blah your server is fine you get good matches all the time, etc etc etc. Good for you, but I don't. All I want are balanced matches, is that really so much to ask? Like ability delay, this issue is so fundamental that there should have been emergency downtime to fix this crap the very instant it was discovered.

 

So yeah, they might not lose their entire insane, masochistic PvP base, but they sure as hell lost my sub.

[gjfwang]

I quit the game with 10 days remaining. Still have a couple days, but everytime i hit the launcher i stare at it for a few minutes and close it. pvp is terrible and pve content is frustrating (not in difficulty.)

 

I know mythic has nothing better to do after destroying warhammer online's potential but giving them control over swtor's pvp is ... If EA thinks star wars can't fail, they should ask Sony about star wars galaxies and what happens when you ramrod something like CU down players' throat after near universal rejection by the games' player base. Oh right, the mmorpg dies and star wars mmorpg license gets sold to another company hence how star wars ended up in bioware's hands.

 

Its pretty sad because somehow Bioware made a game with huge pvp potential. The optimal pvp specs for each class are pretty much balanced. There's 2 or more viable pvp specs for each class. And if the sides are roughly equal in gear and numbers, skill makes a huge difference.

Edited February 11, 2012 by gjfwang

[Sovietik]

I'm a bit lazy todayn so I will ctrl-c what I said in another thread :

 

 

As a pretty "intensive" (I don't like "HardCore") PVPer, I (and my mates) really dislike PVP in TOR :

 

- Illum : Zergfest. I utterly despise autoshotting/spamming instant to kill a player. Being in or under a bus is real crap for me, and god knows I like open PVP. With my team we try everyday to find interesting fights (even 7 vs 4) but it always ends with a bus zerging us/zerging our ennemies. Losing interest from day to day.

 

- WZ : Only 3 WZ (huttball is not a real one for me) and no way to enter as a full team. I'm stuck with at least 4 people that I don't know.That's not competitive PVP, that's familial PVP.

 

- Stuff : I really dislike RNG for stuffing. I don't do PVE, I do PVP. If gear matters, I expect it to be gradual and actually, a lucky casual have a better stuff than me, only because of luck.

And as reaching BM is now a total joke with Zerglum farming, here also little to none interest.

 

- CC : Resolve Bar does not work as intended, people can be CC at least three times in a row with 4sec stuns or 8sec mezz. That's not competitive PVP either, that's lousy and careless one.

Snares & roots totally free, no DR or whatever, this is asinine PVP design....

 

-Bugs & Imbalances : Some mirror classes are not real one/ At lot of bugs : people not showing in raid UI, WZ with 9-12 people instead of 8, abilities not working or having a delay (Mortar Volley for example), being un-grouped after a WZ.....

Small and not so small bugs soils the game, making it the most buggued game I've ever seen so far.

 

Anyway, there is no promising MMO coming right now, so I'm stuck here for 1-2 weeks but I clearly can't bear it another month. Maybe i'll try the TERA beta but after L2 & Aion, i'm fed up with korean bashing, but at least you don't finish the game with 2 max lvl alt in 2 month.....

 

My 0.2 c€nts

Edited February 11, 2012 by Sovietik

[LordCrow]

I didn't read your entire thread but I'm sure it's a long roundabout way to bash this game while asking your question.

 

 

The answer is no. There are many active PVPers and my server is constantly popping in Ilum and warzones on both factions.

 

 

 

 

What you see(my guess is you included) is the whiners. The crybabies that didn't get the game they imagined so they run to the forums to cry to try and dissuade the people that do like it from playing out of some bitter feeling of letdown of their imagination of the "perfect pvp game"

 

not everyone accept that game he bought for a lots of money (poor CE buyers) is totall ****... people, those with some sense of seeing differences between good game and bad game will be looking for something new, better ......rather than stay here and pretend to be happy....

and pvp here? I satrted playing with one task..cap level and do pvp mainly(ofc pvp server) but after capping level I saw trade killing, dead open pvp, not playlable Ilum..and wz's relay on gear only...and whole system of gearing up is just brainless grind fest till you get BM title..and what thsi title actually means..??? it supposed to mean that player is good in pvp....but here it means nothing since 90% Battlemasters just trade their titles with oposit faction.........so... dont know for whom really this game was designed...for sure not for seriuos players.... the same about pve...

[MiaRB]

why are all you "unsubbers" still posting here? if you quit the game then move on with your lives. the rest of us who love pvp in this game( the majority ) will continue to have our fun in the game.

[Kaluah]

The fact that RIFT has better pvp mechanics and better class depth is pretty sad considering the budget/release date... ppl defend the game saying.. give it time... If its released at a later date than other mmos is that really an excuse to do everything wrong? I see it as a bigger sin as they have the arrogance not to have listened or eradicate most pvpers pet hates..

 

For example..

 

Crowd control is supposed to be an additive to combat certain situations.

In swtor CC is your best offense...

 

I knew after my first game of huttball that it was the worst pvp game ive ever played.

 

Why?

 

Frustration at having no control on any situation or even your character for that matter.

 

 

leave this game to the BW fanboys and the ppl that have star wars toilet seat covers. Anyone else should move along.

[Kaluah]

why are all you "unsubbers" still posting here? if you quit the game then move on with your lives. the rest of us who love pvp in this game( the majority ) will continue to have our fun in the game.

 

Guess we just like reminding you die hards that your game is dead/dying?

 

And i think ppl have a right to tell BW that they feel cheated and why..

 

the game delivered on nothing but Role play... not good enough

 

BTW MiaRB i noticed your join date of 09 O.o i really feel for you, and i understand you defending swtor till its dying days.. but unfortunately.. the unsubbers are the majority ..

Edited February 11, 2012 by Kaluah

[Asurai]

I quit the game with 10 days remaining. Still have a couple days, but everytime i hit the launcher i stare at it for a few minutes and close it. pvp is terrible and pve content is frustrating (not in difficulty.)

 

I know mythic has nothing better to do after destroying warhammer online's potential but giving them control over swtor's pvp is ... If EA thinks star wars can't fail, they should ask Sony about star wars galaxies and what happens when you ramrod something like CU down players' throat after near universal rejection by the games' player base. Oh right, the mmorpg dies and star wars mmorpg license gets sold to another company hence how star wars ended up in bioware's hands.

 

Its pretty sad because somehow Bioware made a game with huge pvp potential. The optimal pvp specs for each class are pretty much balanced. There's 2 or more viable pvp specs for each class. And if the sides are roughly equal in gear and numbers, skill makes a huge difference.

In tera online you do; very easy to level in the "West" Tera

[MiaRB]

Guess we just like reminding you die hards that your game is dead/dying?

 

And i think ppl have a right to tell BW that they feel cheated and why..

 

the game delivered on nothing but Role play... not good enough

 

BTW MiaRB i noticed your join date of 09 O.o i really feel for you, and i understand you defending swtor till its dying days.. but unfortunately.. the unsubbers are the majority ..

 

lol, that isnt actually true you know. and dont feel bad for me, because i have fun everytime i log in. same is true for everyone i interact with inside the game, including pvp.

 

i almost feel bad for yo though, making up things to justify your point of view... but most of all, i feel sorry for anyone that feels the need to keep posting their same BW/TOR bashing over and over and over again day after day after day. especially people who claim to have unsubbed.

[bwookie]

why are all you "unsubbers" still posting here? if you quit the game then move on with your lives. the rest of us who love pvp in this game( the majority ) will continue to have our fun in the game.

 

I don't see the majority you're speaking of. PVP is getting shafted.

 

1. No one can say Ilum was in a state to be launched.

2. 3 warzones are getting stale in a couple of months will one more add that much?

 

Bioware really miscalculated how much PVP matters for endgame content. I mean how difficult could it have been to have 10-15 warzones available at launch? Their own statistics released on PVP show how big a part it has in how their players spend their time. I'm a hardcore pvper as once I do the endgame content I really don't care about repeating static PVE content for digital loot. PVP is the one thing that is always different. I have really enjoyed the PVP content in this game thus far sans Ilum but it is getting a bit stale and one additional warzone every 3 months is not going to sustain my interest. Bioware has a very slim window before they lose their PVP players, and I have a feeling it is a pretty big factor in people who are on the fence about resubbing after march.

[Airoper]

If they are lost im sure they will be found on Ven Zallow!

[MiaRB]

I don't see the majority you're speaking of. PVP is getting shafted.

 

1. No one can say Ilum was in a state to be launched.

2. 3 warzones are getting stale in a couple of months will one more add that much?

 

Bioware really miscalculated how much PVP matters for endgame content. I mean how difficult could it have been to have 10-15 warzones available at launch? Their own statistics released on PVP show how big a part it has in how their players spend their time. I'm a hardcore pvper as once I do the endgame content I really don't care about repeating static PVE content for digital loot. PVP is the one thing that is always different. I have really enjoyed the PVP content in this game thus far sans Ilum but it is getting a bit stale and one additional warzone every 3 months is not going to sustain my interest. Bioware has a very slim window before they lose their PVP players, and I have a feeling it is a pretty big factor in people who are on the fence about resubbing after march.

 

the majority i speak of actually play the game and dont even bother reading the forums let alone actually post how much fun they are having. you should try it, playing the game i mean. pvpers are playing a loving it for the most part. half the people on the forums dont even play and who are these pvp players you speak of? the self proclaimed "hardcore pro pvpers" who get their butts pasted inthe game so they come on forums to moan and complain that all their "hard work" abusing the system to farm themselves a gear advantage didnt make them pvp gods so now BW sucks and tor sucks. lol.

 

look, if the game is fun, then play it. if it really isnt, then dont. but why keep posting the same nonsense over and over again? and why oh why keep posting if you already have quit playing?