montanabrand Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Hey guys/gals. I didn't come here to be a negative spewer at all. honestly. I have a 45 sage/healer and 49 prior dps then turned to sawbones for the last few lvls for the guild. I have read posts about sage vs sawbones and hadda try for myself...mostly the reason i respecced. pve... sage is the better choice no comparison. NONE. force armor on everyone in a few casts then stand back and button mash a "hot" and heals. pvp sawbones has WAY more upside since sage gets autotargeted to a good enemy grp...but still if u have a premade u can protect that healer. stay back keep everyone force armor'd and heal while the idiots overextend and dps them as they try to attack u with force armor on yourself with a hot and a heal. as u stun/mez. I wanna love my sawbones but forget it i'm going back to scrapper till something changes. Just no point. dont get me wrong I LOVE THIS GAME. just talking bout class balance is all. happy lvl'in to everyone. Since daoc this game is the next to take over my life. ................... don't get me wrong. a sawbones is the perfect 2nd healer in a grp if needed. they can keep 2 hots on peeps insta while dps'ing. Buti in reality dps is handled and just have 2 sages if u need 2 healers. U won't need 2 healers since a good tank u have his back and force armor/hot can control the aggro/dps on them. if not cc one and tank takes other. Just to many variables to excuse the sawbones as healer. dps it is. Their damage is still nuts. Edited February 9, 2012 by montanabrand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montanabrand Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 bump but no one has any thoughts? Mostly curious as to who has played both and has a contrary opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govudo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Well i think Sawbone is great but Sage has such a huge pool so they can heal more for a min straight. But the think with Sage is once they run out of Focus its game over. I dont think they need to do much with Smuggler healer but i would like a shield for people. I hate not having a shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreebler Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 In your particular case perhaps sage would be better for you. Your conclusion that sage is 'better' for everyone is simplistic and false. Scoundrel tops heal EVERY match. Get MVP votes a plenty. Can change the outcome of many situations which are hopeless. Not just that, I have stealth.. can sneak up on a stray, pop my Crit Relic, shoot first, backshot, whack them over the head, dirty kick(stun), quickshot, mezz again.... back shot coming up ... bam. Dead. Only chance they have is if they had a healer close. Not to mention that I can run and gun while healing. My main heals are isnta. Not to mention all the crits give me extra heals/power. Had plenty of tells from people that tell me they are glad they are on my team because I am just no fun to try to kill. In 1 v 1 they will fall. Yes... sage will come close to me but still not quite. In the end it is supposed to be balanced anyways. They balance it out by doing more dmg. But they have to wear those girly robes. Better still; I learned NEVER to care about whether you win or lose a match. IF you do that, you already lose. Do the best you have with what u got, and let the chips fall where they may. Stick with your jedi, and leave the real smuggling to the real smugglers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulvsblak Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 stop spreading lies. I am a scoundrel and match a similar geared sage healer at PVE and destroy all sage healers at PVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreebler Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) stop spreading lies. I am a scoundrel and match a similar geared sage healer at PVE and destroy all sage healers at PVP Exactly! Furthermore, I think my jumping wildly around healing in PVP has raised my greebling in pve to a new and more greebly level. Im able to spread my heals faster than ever. As a final thought I shall finish this evening by saying; GREEBLE GROBBLE! Edited February 9, 2012 by thegreebler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Findulidas Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 stop spreading lies. I am a scoundrel and match a similar geared sage healer at PVE and destroy all sage healers at PVP QFT, its player skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iFruit Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I dont think they need to do much with Smuggler healer but i would like a shield for people. I hate not having a shield. ^ This^ That's all I need for my Sawbones, too. He just does pure healing and that's it, no defensive/protective stuff at all, even through proc. Sage is...sage, 'nuff said, but even my Commando gives an armor buff through AMP and grants substantial damage reduction buff up to 3 (I.e. entire FP group) targets with KB dropped after SCC. That leaves us Smugglers the only thoroughly helpless main healer and leads to subsequent wipes in high-tension combat situations. Imagine Kaon Under Siege FP, 1st boss (the hordes of Rakghouls), you get constantly CC'd and your applied SRMP HoTs are just not enough when your breaker is down. A protective buff could give you those precious milliseconds to save a teammemeber. Please give us our protective buff(s), Bioware!!! Edited February 9, 2012 by iFruit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulvsblak Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 no need for a shield. just make EM separate from global cooldown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auntjemimafan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 no need for a shield. just make EM separate from global cooldown ^ This would be awesome. And possibly make Kolto Cloud a little stronger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatooey Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The best healer I have run with is a trooper. Not saying that troopers are the best healers, but the player makes more of a differnece than the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vartius Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Yeah I saw the opposite effect last nite. Ran with a trooper healer spec that couldn't keep us up from scatter damage and said he couldn't keep up with the targeting. He's a guildie so I'll have to give him the crash course on F1-4 targeting and a separate healing hot key bar. I outperform sages easily that don't use the keyboard to do everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambor Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Personally i felt that sawbones healing was very lackluster. Its definetley the least effective out of Vanguard and Sage. I respecced for DPS and im having a much better time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powershifterr Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I love my Sawbones and yes the Sage is better right now but the Sawbones isn't made to be a main tank healer by any means. Again, people are upset the class they rolled isn't the best. Sawbones is a support healer, spot heal the raid and keep hots up to help with spike damage where ever you can. Your Commandos and Sages should be on the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernaud Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I love my Sawbones and yes the Sage is better right now but the Sawbones isn't made to be a main tank healer by any means. What? we are the best MT healer... Most of the QQ come from beginner who can't use a good healing cycle. If u can't find it just reroll sage, it's a wow-like healer and then even if u are bad we wont see it that much. Cleaned the Nightmare 8 this week without a sage with a commando. Except for the Droid it wasn't that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onethreeone Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Agreeing with the premise for PVP. Sage / Sorc >> Smuggie / Op Maybe it changes if you have a premade team, but for solo queue the Sage / SI is a much better option. It can kick out half the healing that a Smuggie / Op can do, while still putting out top DPS numbers. Not to mention it's extra utility / mobility and superior range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRieh Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Wow. Looks like I'm back on a wow-druids forum again, though I was pretty sure that I canceled my wow-sub about two month ago. Feeling like home, really. "Oh priests are op" "Oh palas wear plate" "Oh give us shield - we dont have a shield" "Oh shamas have horns ad sticks" If you don't really feel that class you chose goes good for you - just roll another, imo. Or find a way to play this one - so that you'll get your fun. But somehow, for some kind of people "fun" = "top healing\dps done". I just love the class, I love the mechanics I get in hcs\fps. I love my skills, utilities, cc etc. What I dont really love (still not hate either) - is our UI. Yet it's not about class - it's a global thing. Though HOTers DO need clear buff\debuff readings abit more then other classes do, probably. And if I could QQ about anything here - it's just about combatrezz being not our exclusive class feature. Old droods habbits, I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ukita Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 My guildmates would love a scoundrel healer for both PvP and Ops. They're the best single target healer in the game, so you have a sage and a scoundrel and the main tank will never go down with the scoundrel healing him, and the rest of the raid will never go down with the sage dropping healing circles and quick heals. There is no good or bad healer. They've got the situations they're good in, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devhyn Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 In your particular case perhaps sage would be better for you. Your conclusion that sage is 'better' for everyone is simplistic and false. Scoundrel tops heal EVERY match. Get MVP votes a plenty. Can change the outcome of many situations which are hopeless. Not just that, I have stealth.. can sneak up on a stray, pop my Crit Relic, shoot first, backshot, whack them over the head, dirty kick(stun), quickshot, mezz again.... back shot coming up ... bam. Dead. Only chance they have is if they had a healer close. Not to mention that I can run and gun while healing. My main heals are isnta. Not to mention all the crits give me extra heals/power. Had plenty of tells from people that tell me they are glad they are on my team because I am just no fun to try to kill. In 1 v 1 they will fall. Yes... sage will come close to me but still not quite. In the end it is supposed to be balanced anyways. They balance it out by doing more dmg. But they have to wear those girly robes. Better still; I learned NEVER to care about whether you win or lose a match. IF you do that, you already lose. Do the best you have with what u got, and let the chips fall where they may. Stick with your jedi, and leave the real smuggling to the real smugglers. I would like to see some screenshots of how well you supposedly outheal every sage you encounter in WZ. I average 300-400k in wz as Sawbones, but I'm sure I could do a bit better if I had some battlemaster gear. Regardless, when I go scrapper with my premade sage healing, he breaks 500k almost every single wz and breaks 600k sometimes. I can't come anywhere near that, and we're similarly geared. Force Armor counts toward your overall healing, and when you have it talented, you can cast it really quickly on multiple targets. So... dunno. Unless people just take more damage when he's heals and I'm DPS than when he's DPS and I'm heals... or I just suck or something. I'm just curious. I've never seen a Sawbones break 400k healing besides me unless it was a ridiculously long Alderaan match. If you're comparing your total healing to someone else's total healing in the same warzone, it's kinda biased. They could be defending a point with less activity, or maybe you're just faster on the heals (at which point it's just a huge gear or play style discrepancy anyway). If you really think Sawbones doesn't need a buff, you must not do much PvE at all. In which case your argument is pretty much pointless. I do just fine healing as Sawbones in warzones too, but operations go much more smoothly if you at least have one sage healer in there. Good to have a Sawbones there as a main tank healer, but Sage has a much better repertoire of abilities to keep the rest of the group up and still stay on top of energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devhyn Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 My guildmates would love a scoundrel healer for both PvP and Ops. They're the best single target healer in the game, so you have a sage and a scoundrel and the main tank will never go down with the scoundrel healing him, and the rest of the raid will never go down with the sage dropping healing circles and quick heals. There is no good or bad healer. They've got the situations they're good in, that's it. Sage+Scoundrel works fine healing normal mode operations. However, Sage+Sage can do it just fine as well. Try doing it with Scoundrel+Scoundrel. It's doable, but it's going to be a lot more difficult unless your entire group is in perfect gear and makes 0 mistakes the entire run. Sage significantly overshadows Scoundrel in PvE with its healing repertoire. I'm not saying Scoundrel is a 'bad' healer by any means, but it needs some adjustments to be on par with a sage. I want to be better than just a main tank healer. I want a GOOD AoE heal, and better emergency healing than stupid emergency medpac. I don't want to have to rely on Upper Hand to do everything. I want Kolto Pack to cost less energy and be a bit more useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutchmrchurch Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 send a sage in on boss that whores out the tank, see how long he lasts, i can go all day healing and out heal single target any sage all day long show me one sage that can prove me otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montanabrand Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 okay... i just wanted to get a serious debate going about the 2. I've played my scoundrel further in pvp and a little pve. pvp the scoundrel has it down...yes sage has force armor and "hot" but those are the only insta casts worth a dang...minus the "cleanse" ability of sage as all healers have. I'm very interested in the scoundrel healer and will stay so. Yes they can keep a single target/2 targets alive along time and never run out of "power". BUT it depends on that target your healing...and their player skill gear. force armor makes up for so much of that. I hinted towards it but didn't pronounce it enough. For a sage u can cast force armor on a target and that along with debuffing his negative effects and healing him is ALOT. The upside to player skill goes to scoundrel though...u can heal and do serious dps to "almost dead" mobs/players while moving /stealthing/healing after that. where i stand thus far which isn't a veteran viewpoint on scoundrel by any means is...if u have a grp in vent and knows how to work with u and not just rush out into battle and expect a heal then scoundrel wins...but for a pug then sage wins. certainly not a professional opinion...but i'm learning and just want to hear all sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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