Alot people forget that this game is new...

[Morthis]

And they arnt.

 

The class quest and the planet's main story line quest are usually fairly interesting (although chapter 1 after you get your spaceship is a bit boring to, go to 4 planets, to collect some item/do something, just a checklist of planets, no real story there). Quests beyond those? Yeah they're no different than any other MMO where it's "Go collect 5 cat tails from these mutant cats".

[Shingara]

You can cover it up with whatever storyline you like, but all you're doing is "go kill 10 wookies for a moisture farmer because they are eating his space granola bars".

 

LoL if we are going to the basics all this game is hit one thing, then go hit another. are you happy now. thats the same for wow, rift, aion etc etc etc.

 

So what is it your looking for exactly. seriously what is it your looking for, you persist that this game has to have something that isnt go kill x, go collect x, go destroy x or go escort x or create x for what the devs say to be true yet there is no other way for it to be done with a leveling based mmo.

 

do you want xp for dancing ?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Shingara

[Vodalus]

Yes i saw some of the stuff that was pulled, but let me ask you this and answer honestly, would you prefer those things to be in a patch working or in the game now bugged and broken cos we know they didnt pull them for the sake of pulling them.

 

That's the point: why, after 6 or so years of development, were the basics not working? Oh, because the UI team fooled around with fog-or-war or no fog-of-war, hex grid or no hex grid, etc. . . instead of working on the basics like a working market search, windows not being auto-closed by companion crafting, more than 2 windows open.

 

Or because they had their artists spend so much time on re-working wall designs that they didn't have time to make high-rez textures work or make different gear that isn't just a re-paint of 6 other pieces.

 

Or because they have an arrogant guy like GZ who openly stated that tester feedback is meaningless (while their marketing department hyped up how they listen to tester feedback) and all testers were there for was to generate numbers running the show; this was in the closed beta, not the stress-test weekends. That's right, one of the top dogs believes design decisions can be made from numbers alone. Maybe he forgot the part where "design" isn't math, it's art. There's a reason computers don't programs don't have pieces hanging in museums.

 

Edit: To answer your question, I'd rather they had those things in at launch and working than to have exhausted their time and budget on things that don't matter. (Seriously, who cares if the map is broken into hex-grids. Make the basics of the UI work before you rework those things. If they were going to waste time on the map, maybe putting in a real zoom feature instead of the stupid, cumbersome magnify feature.)

Edited February 13, 2012 by Vodalus

[Abruptum]

LoL if we are going to the basics all this game is hit one thing, then go hit another. are you happy now. thats the same for wow, rift, aion etc etc etc.

 

So what is it your looking for exactly. seriously what is it your looking for, you persist that this game has to have something that isnt go kill x, go collect x, go destroy x or go escort x or create x for what the devs say to be true yet there is no other way for it to be done with a leveling based mmo.

 

do you want xp for dancing ?

 

It doesn't matter what I specifically want to be able to do, the point you seem unable to get your head around is this: Bioware said quests were going to avoid generic chores, but they forgot about that and just put cutscenes around them. That's a big difference from fundamentally changing the questing.

[Shingara]

That's the point: why, after 6 or so years of development, were the basics not working? Oh, because the UI team fooled around with fog-or-war or no fog-of-war, hex grid or no hex grid, etc. . . instead of working on the basics like a working market search, windows not being auto-closed by companion crafting, more than 2 windows open.

 

Or because they had their artists spend so much time on re-working wall designs that they didn't have time to make high-rez textures work or make different gear that isn't just a re-paint of 6 other pieces.

 

Or because they have an arrogant guy like GZ who openly stated that tester feedback is meaningless (while their marketing department hyped up how they listen to tester feedback) and all testers were there for was to generate numbers running the show; this was in the closed beta, not the stress-test weekends. That's right, one of the top dogs believes design decisions can be made from numbers alone. Maybe he forgot the part where "design" isn't math, it's art. There's a reason computers don't programs don't have pieces hanging in museums.

 

Or they had prioritys and what was important to be in at launch and what could be put into the game within a 6 month time period of the games release working.

 

Ye think.

[Shingara]

It doesn't matter what I specifically want to be able to do, the point you seem unable to get your head around is this: Bioware said quests were going to avoid generic chores, but they forgot about that and just put cutscenes around them. That's a big difference from fundamentally changing the questing.

 

What you seem to fail to understand is that this game is as much of an rpg story driven game as any of the other bioware titles, they are confined to a specific set of rules and around those rules they have created one of the best rpg mmos made to date.

[Lethality]

They can certainly take pointers and ideas from the leader of MMOs, but market it to a different audience.

 

But I think the markets are on literally opposite ends of the spectrum:

 

<---BioWare/SRPG/Star Wars/RolePlayer ---------------------Hardcore min/max endgame raider---->

 

The left side of the scale here is what BioWare set out to do, and capture those folks. The other side of the scale, they literally came out and said they would ignore.

 

However, what has happened is they've scored the hit with the left side... and abandoned them at the end game. The opposite is true for the right side of the scale... the level up story game isn't that appealing and somewhat annoying. The end game represents something closer to what they want, but they'll never get there.

 

Obviously I'm speaking in extremes to illustrate a point, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[Abruptum]

What you seem to fail to understand is that this game is as much of an rpg story driven game as any of the other bioware titles, they are confined to a specific set of rules and around those rules they have created one of the best rpg mmos made to date.

 

Strawman argument. That has no effect on the quests. There are no specific rules.

[Shingara]

But I think the markets are on literally opposite ends of the spectrum:

 

<---BioWare/SRPG/Star Wars/RolePlayer ---------------------Hardcore min/max endgame raider---->

 

The left side of the scale here is what BioWare set out to do, and capture those folks. The other side of the scale, they literally came out and said they would ignore.

 

However, what has happened is they've scored the hit with the left side... and abandoned them at the end game. The opposite is true for the right side of the scale... the level up story game isn't that appealing and somewhat annoying. The end game represents something closer to what they want, but they'll never get there.

 

Obviously I'm speaking in extremes to illustrate a point, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

I love the story, all my guild loves the story, the people i speak to ingame love the story, the only time i see people wanting to skip the story is within flashpoints when they have already done the story a few times and know exactly what is going to be said.

[Graburr]

rpg mmos

 

which implies a story, and every story has an ending. what you supposed to do after that? what keeps people from canceling their sub, wait 6 months, catch up on the story and wait another 6 months?

 

"personal story" and everything sounds nice and dandy - until it's over and you're confronted with a crappy version of wow's endgame (which after almost 8 years people begin to get tired of).

[LadyNightArrow]

For those who are saying, "This is 2012. SW:TOR needs to come with 'standard features'" and any other such none sense...since when did WoW become the poster child for what should be in a game? For you youngsters who probably don't know and don't believe this, WoW was not the first MMO ever made. MuDs (1975), Habitat (1986), Meridian 59 (1996), Ultima Online (1997), Everquest (1999), as well as others came out before WoW, which made its debut in 2004. I know the MuDs I played didn't have a LFG tool or dungeon finder. Never mind that it was text based, but that's besides the point. I didn't play the other games (I went from MuDs to WoW), so I don't know if they had all of the things in them that WoW currently has. I doubt it, but I could be wrong. Even then, it took WoW quite sometime to implement those features.

 

Source: http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2005/10/gaming-evolution.ars/4

 

Just because a game is popular doesn't automatically make it a poster child for what should be standard in a game. One of the reasons, not the reason, but a reason, a lot of people play SW:TOR is because it isn't WoW. At least that is one of the reasons I play TOR.

Edited February 13, 2012 by LadyNightArrow

[Lethality]

I love the story, all my guild loves the story, the people i speak to ingame love the story, the only time i see people wanting to skip the story is within flashpoints when they have already done the story a few times and know exactly what is going to be said.

 

Right, and you're on the left side of my scale above, more than the right

[Shingara]

Strawman argument. That has no effect on the quests. There are no specific rules.

 

Of course there are specific rules, a leveling based mmo requires people to attain xp, to attain xp there is a limited scope of things you can do to get that xp. how you effect change in doing it is by how the quests are done, given, handed in, the feeling of involvment.

 

What has been done with this mmo is to have the rpg sat right back into what it means to be an mmorpg.

[Shingara]

which implies a story, and every story has an ending. what you supposed to do after that? what keeps people from canceling their sub, wait 6 months, catch up on the story and wait another 6 months?

 

"personal story" and everything sounds nice and dandy - until it's over and you're confronted with a crappy version of wow's endgame (which after almost 8 years people begin to get tired of).

 

I expect them to put in more story.

[Abruptum]

For those who are saying, "This is 2012. SW:TOR needs to come with 'standard features'" and any other such none sense...since when did WoW become the poster child for what should be in a game? For you youngsters who probably don't know and don't believe this, WoW was not the first MMO ever made. MuDs, 1975, Habitat 1986, Meridian 59 1996, Ultima Online 1997, Everquest 1999, as well as others came out before WoW, which made its debut in 2004. I know the MuDs I played didn't have a LFG tool or dungeon finder. Never mind that it was text based, but that's besides the point. I didn't play the other games (I went from MuDs to WoW), so I don't know if they had all of the things in them that WoW currently has. I doubt it, but I could be wrong. Even then, it took WoW quite sometime to implement those features.

 

MuDs didn't have a LFG tool or dungeon finder because they didn't have the technology or mechanics then. WoW is widely accepted as the poster-child for MMOs, why do you think every new MMO is called the 'potential WoW-killer"?

[Abruptum]

Of course there are specific rules, a leveling based mmo requires people to attain xp, to attain xp there is a limited scope of things you can do to get that xp. how you effect change in doing it is by how the quests are done, given, handed in, the feeling of involvment.

 

What has been done with this mmo is to have the rpg sat right back into what it means to be an mmorpg.

 

That wasn't what they meant by "no more kill x quests" and you know it.

[Knewt]

SWTOR is marketed toward the KOTOR/Star Wars/Bioware fan, not WoW clients. Rift is more of a WoW-target audience.

BS. TOR is a fantasy MMO. It is aimed at the same target audience as WoW.

 

I can understand that even MMOs can be completely different.

The MMO market isn't big enough for that level of differentiation. Right now, the MMO market is divided by monthly subs and F2P/microtransactions. There are a few outside of the norm, but SWTOR is not in that realm. TOR is very much a traditional MMO in the same market space as EQ, EQ2, Rift and WoW.

 

Again, they are two different games and markets. WoW might have the best value to YOU, but the fact that WoW has this while ToR does not have this will not affect the general public.

 

Most people that I know that play this game and play WoW love this game. Why? Star Wars. That is the primary target audience.

Ask SWG how the Star Wars theme worked for them. It will carry sales for a little while, but better features are required to sustain subscriptions after the Star Wars theme wears off.

 

Right now, SWTOR is well behind competing MMOs in feature set. It may take them the entirety of 2012 to catchup to Rift or WoW today. By then, it may be too late.

[Knewt]

since when did WoW become the poster child for what should be in a game?

Since it hit 12 million subs and everyone in the business wants that sort of financial gain.

 

The rest of your post is irrelevant since you don't understand the basics of why corporation exist.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Knewt

[Shingara]

That wasn't what they meant by "no more kill x quests" and you know it.

 

actualy its exactly what i think they meant, i love mass effect, i love fable, i love assasins creed, i dont love them cos i can kill things, its cos i feel involved within the story, i dont feel involved in the story in wow nor rift nor aion.

 

 

What i dont understand is what exactly you think it involves but then again you cannot explain what you want.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Shingara

[Mephismo]

I expect them to put in more story.

 

Name rings a bell

[LadyNightArrow]

MuDs didn't have a LFG tool or dungeon finder because they didn't have the technology or mechanics then. WoW is widely accepted as the poster-child for MMOs, why do you think every new MMO is called the 'potential WoW-killer"?

 

Yes, thank you for pointing out the obvious. I suppose that's why they were text based. That dosen't mean every MMO has to have the same features WoW does. There is such thing as thinking outside the box. Besides, if every MMO has the same features, it won't be long until people start complaining that it is old and something new and innovative needs to be created.

[Vodalus]

For those who are saying, "This is 2012. SW:TOR needs to come with 'standard features'" and any other such none sense...since when did WoW become the poster child for what should be in a game? For you youngsters who probably don't know and don't believe this, WoW was not the first MMO ever made. MuDs (1975), Habitat (1986), Meridian 59 (1996), Ultima Online (1997), Everquest (1999), as well as others came out before WoW, which made its debut in 2004. I know the MuDs I played didn't have a LFG tool or dungeon finder. Never mind that it was text based, but that's besides the point. I didn't play the other games (I went from MuDs to WoW), so I don't know if they had all of the things in them that WoW currently has. I doubt it, but I could be wrong. Even then, it took WoW quite sometime to implement those features.

 

Source: http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2005/10/gaming-evolution.ars/4

 

Just because a game is popular doesn't automatically make it a poster child for what should be standard in a game. One of the reasons, not the reason, but a reason, a lot of people play SW:TOR is because it isn't WoW. At least that is one of the reasons I play TOR.

 

Air conditioning in a Ford does not make it a Chevy just because Chevy had AC. Nobody is saying this game should be WoW. We are saying this game should have basics and that those basics should work.

[Abruptum]

Yes, thank you for pointing out the obvious. I suppose that's why they were text based. That dosen't mean every MMO has to have the same features WoW does. There is such thing as thinking outside the box. Besides, if every MMO has the same features, it won't be long until people start complaining that it is old and something new and innovative needs to be created.

 

There's a difference between innovating features and just lacking them. Taking away functions is not thinking outside the box.

[Shingara]

Name rings a bell

 

Do you play bf3, might be that.

[ZORG]

Excuses, This is a 2012 game, it needs to launch with the standard features otherwise why play it? Tera is launching with an LFG tool and a combat log and everything, i'm probably going to switch over to that game because it is going to have everything i want in an MMO right out of the gate.

 

Can we say HOKI Japanimation all with over sized weapons. Only thing i saw i liked was the female elf outfit. The rest of it was Phantasy Star Universe Meets Final Fantasy.