Simple solution for Operative Healer fixes

[alanisUDL]

Just for some context-- I rolled an Operative at launch, as I liked the idea of the class and didn't want to be a generic lightsaber user. After PvPing extensively while leveling and at 50, I moved about a month ago to the Sorceror, despite my aethetic and overplayed concerns because of the gamebreaking degree of how they perform better than Operatives in PvP healing.

 

I don't expect BW to do a complete revamp of the class mechanics, abilities, and energy system. I wanted to provide a couple simple fixes that would provide the Operative more of a niche, while not being changes that would require a great amount of time to create.

 

Kolto Probe-- It is one of our signature abilities, but it just doesn't heal enough. it is also not effected by alacrity. Suggestion: Have KP effected by alacrity and increase its healing by 1.5-2x.

 

Diagnostic Scan-- It has been debated many times. Suggestion: Simple fix-- double the healing, make it an ability you can channel while moving.

 

Recouperative Nanotech-- Awful when compared to Sorc AoE. Suggestion: Another simple fix-- Increase Healing by 1.5-2x, lower energy to 25, Increase range to 15-20m, Remove max of 4 targets

 

Shield Probe-- such failure compared to not only the Sorc, but also the very nice BH version. Suggestions: keep it as self-only. Increase shield to 3000-3500 health. Change Med Shield talent similar to design of BH, but rather "increases healing output by 15% for 12 seconds".

 

Kolto Infusion-- just not worth the cost of both energy and TA. A concern with improving this ability much is that it is not directly linked to the Medine tree and could become too powerful for Conc or Lethality operatives. Suggestion: Make a 2-point high end talent in the Medince Tree that "Kolto Infusion will heal 1/2 additional allies within 10 meters for 50/100% of amount healed".

[RuQu]

You linked this in the request compilation, trying to add things in now.

 

I think most items were already addressed or I've added them, except 1.

 

Not sure what the problem with shield probe is. It looks to be exactly like Trooper's Reactive Shield, but it is on a shorter cooldown and the amount blocked scales with gear instead of being a static 25%. With half the cooldown, I would expect the amount blocked to be approx 12.5% when wearing reasonable gear. Anywhere from 10-15 should be acceptable. The skill (really wish they just called them talents...) is exactly the same as the Trooper one, and lets you survive better while the shield is up, instead of burning a defensive cooldown to get a small offensive healing buff.

 

I'll just add it in with some minor cleanup if you want. It's a compilation, not my opinion, but I was confused by it so figured I'd seek clarification before I misrepresented it.

[alanisUDL]

You linked this in the request compilation, trying to add things in now.

 

I think most items were already addressed or I've added them, except 1.

 

Not sure what the problem with shield probe is. It looks to be exactly like Trooper's Reactive Shield, but it is on a shorter cooldown and the amount blocked scales with gear instead of being a static 25%. With half the cooldown, I would expect the amount blocked to be approx 12.5% when wearing reasonable gear. Anywhere from 10-15 should be acceptable. The skill (really wish they just called them talents...) is exactly the same as the Trooper one, and lets you survive better while the shield is up, instead of burning a defensive cooldown to get a small offensive healing buff.

 

I'll just add it in with some minor cleanup if you want. It's a compilation, not my opinion, but I was confused by it so figured I'd seek clarification before I misrepresented it.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something in how Reactive Shield works. I'm under the impression that your shield gives you -25% damage reduction for 12 seconds after casting it? The way the IA one works, you get +15% healing on the talent, but ONLY while the shield is still active-- i.e., after a random dot hits you and your shield breaks 2 seconds later, you no longer benefit from the healing bonus.

 

I also believe the Kolto Infusion suggestion wasn't listed prior.

[ammberae]

I think shield probe should extend to allies as well. Keep the cd of it or make it a little longer so only one person can be affected every 45+ seconds. Sorceror and Bounty Hunter have a shield ability and I think it would be appropiate if IA did too.

[amybelle]

My operative is very fun to play. The classes are so unbalanced in the healing trees. It has gotten to the point that even though I am a good healer, I am sat for a sorc/sage class in Nightmare content. During huttball I can score very high numbers of healing even with the 30% debuff but it is half of a good sorc/sage. When you create classes you aim for a mixture during raids. Raid leader even told me to level my alt sorc so I can join the raid full time.

 

I fell like the first guy. My Nano-tech does half of what a Sorc/Sage AOE heal does, I believe it does heal 1 more person than a bounty hunter. My Kolto Injection does do a good amount of healing and can crit wonderfully but my Kolto Probe (my bread and butter) feels like it is not enough. My infusion is not as good as you could hope it to be. I do like Surgical Probe and works well when you have a low hp player who needs a good heal, also like the fact that you get your Tactical Advantage back when sub30%. Tactical Advantage increases damage done according to the reading of the buff... what's that going to do for the healer? 2% damage buff...really.

 

My scan needs to be on the move like Guy 1 stated and hit for more. Agent and smugglers are the movers and shakers.

 

We need a buff! Take a look at my class and help us! Being sat for someone else because your raid leader feels your class is under power is not fair by any means.

 

Post comments and concerns please.

[RuQu]

Perhaps I'm missing something in how Reactive Shield works. I'm under the impression that your shield gives you -25% damage reduction for 12 seconds after casting it? The way the IA one works, you get +15% healing on the talent, but ONLY while the shield is still active-- i.e., after a random dot hits you and your shield breaks 2 seconds later, you no longer benefit from the healing bonus.

 

I also believe the Kolto Infusion suggestion wasn't listed prior.

 

Yeah, the KInf one was new, I'd added it from your post before I asked about shield probe.

 

Reactive Shield is 25% DR for 12s, and we can take a skill to boost self-healing for the duration. I see the problem with ShP now, it absorbs a fixed amount and can break early. Between asking my question and reading this response someone else already asked for the same thing, so I think it's covered.

[alanisUDL]

Yeah, the KInf one was new, I'd added it from your post before I asked about shield probe.

 

Reactive Shield is 25% DR for 12s, and we can take a skill to boost self-healing for the duration. I see the problem with ShP now, it absorbs a fixed amount and can break early. Between asking my question and reading this response someone else already asked for the same thing, so I think it's covered.

 

Sounds good and thanks for the clarification with Reactive Shield. As you can see, Shield Probe is by far the red-headed stepchild of shielding abilities.

[Morthis]

Recouperative Nanotech-- Awful when compared to Sorc AoE. Suggestion: Another simple fix-- Increase Healing by 1.5-2x, lower energy to 25, Increase range to 15-20m, Remove max of 4 targets

 

All those at once is probably too much. Right now, RN ticks for roughly the same as the puddle, but 1/3rd as often. Doubling the healing would put it at 2/3rd the hps. Removing the target cap and improving the range would mean it'll become relatively easy to keep it on everybody permanently on most fights. At least the puddle sort of has some limitations with the stacking requirement and cooldown between puddles.

 

All that is assuming the puddle as it is right now is balanced, which I'm not so sure about. It just seems way too strong, it's almost worth casting just to heal a single target, and becomes completely absurd when a bunch of people stand in it.

[Shroudveil]

All those at once is probably too much. Right now, RN ticks for roughly the same as the puddle, but 1/3rd as often. Doubling the healing would put it at 2/3rd the hps. Removing the target cap and improving the range would mean it'll become relatively easy to keep it on everybody permanently on most fights. At least the puddle sort of has some limitations with the stacking requirement and cooldown between puddles.

 

All that is assuming the puddle as it is right now is balanced, which I'm not so sure about. It just seems way too strong, it's almost worth casting just to heal a single target, and becomes completely absurd when a bunch of people stand in it.

 

i agree that the proposed changes all toghether would make it op but you also have to consider it will still take 50% MORE time to do this healing compared to the sorc's one.

 

atm the only drawback of sorc's aoe is that it is static, while rn has 3 problems: heals for far too little, needs 15secs to heals for so low, only hits 4 people.

 

it needs to have 2 of the drawbacks removed to be equal. i think one of those drawbacks should be the limit to targets, because frankly this is what makes sorcs absolutly needed in 16mans compared to the other two healers. the other problem could be either the time needed to heal (reduce the cd to 8 secs, reduce the tick interval to 2secs from 3, reduce the total duration to 10secs) or the hps (60-80% buff to total amount healed)

[Morthis]

i agree that the proposed changes all toghether would make it op but you also have to consider it will still take 50% MORE time to do this healing compared to the sorc's one.

 

I was talking strictly on an hps (tick per tick) basis, not total healing over the full effect. Right now, the hps of RN on a single target seems to be about 1/3rd of that of the puddle, since the ticks have fairly similar numbers but the puddle ticks 3 times as often. If RN's healing was buffed so both spells put out the same healing per second, but RN lasts longer than the other, the duration isn't a downside anymore, it's a bonus.

 

Either way, I agree that one of the changes RN could really use is doing the full healing over a shorter period of time (which isn't even a direct buff, more of a trade). A slow constant stream of healing just isn't very useful on any fight that also doesn't do a slow constant stream of damage to the operation. Most of the time, it's specific moves that take a chunk of health off, and you want to heal that health back as quickly as possible in preparation for the next one that does it. Having a slow aoe heal just doesn't fit well into that. A steady stream of healing is fine for the tank, they're expected to take constant damage, but for the rest of the raid that healing needs to come in faster bursts (which the puddle does perfectly and RN completely fails at).

Edited February 9, 2012 by Morthis

[alanisUDL]

All those at once is probably too much. Right now, RN ticks for roughly the same as the puddle, but 1/3rd as often. Doubling the healing would put it at 2/3rd the hps. Removing the target cap and improving the range would mean it'll become relatively easy to keep it on everybody permanently on most fights. At least the puddle sort of has some limitations with the stacking requirement and cooldown between puddles.

 

All that is assuming the puddle as it is right now is balanced, which I'm not so sure about. It just seems way too strong, it's almost worth casting just to heal a single target, and becomes completely absurd when a bunch of people stand in it.

 

I'd still be inferior to the puddle.

[Morthis]

I'd still be inferior to the puddle.

 

Not really. I get that Op needs help and the sorc puddle is stupid strong, but let's not get completely silly now.

 

RN heals for a little bit more than a puddle tick, only it ticks 1/3rd as often. If you double the healing of RN then the hps of RN will be roughly 75% of that of the sorc puddle, that with the changes to range, unlimited target along with it having a longer duration than cooldown, it could quite literally be kept permanently on everybody in the operation in most scenarios, compared to the puddle which can only be up for 10 of every 15 seconds and requires people to stand in it.

 

RN needs a buff, I completely agree, but try to be realistic about it. I find it far more likely that puddle gets nerfed than that RN would get buffed to such an insane degree.

[alanisUDL]

Not really. I get that Op needs help and the sorc puddle is stupid strong, but let's not get completely silly now.

 

RN heals for a little bit more than a puddle tick, only it ticks 1/3rd as often. If you double the healing of RN then the hps of RN will be roughly 75% of that of the sorc puddle, that with the changes to range, unlimited target along with it having a longer duration than cooldown, it could quite literally be kept permanently on everybody in the operation in most scenarios, compared to the puddle which can only be up for 10 of every 15 seconds and requires people to stand in it.

 

RN needs a buff, I completely agree, but try to be realistic about it. I find it far more likely that puddle gets nerfed than that RN would get buffed to such an insane degree.

 

I have both of these classes at 50 with 500+ expertise, and I'd still rather have the Puddle. RN also costs, even in this scenario, significantly more and would still only heal for 2/3 of Puddle, over a longer period of time. I am willing to acknowledge that I'm not exactly sure what the range limitation should be -- I'm assuming that the 15-20 meter range I was suggesting is similar to the AoE range of the Puddle.

 

If we buff the Ops to have their heals "better but still not as good as a Sorc" is that really solving anything?

[vendorune]

Kolto Infusion-- just not worth the cost of both energy and TA. A concern with improving this ability much is that it is not directly linked to the Medine tree and could become too powerful for Conc or Lethality operatives. Suggestion: Make a 2-point high end talent in the Medince Tree that "Kolto Infusion will heal 1/2 additional allies within 10 meters for 50/100% of amount healed".

 

I use Kolto Infusion often. I can even say that it is the corner-stone of my balls-to-the-wall HPS rotation. Are you in split-build??

 

Infusion currently is more efficient on energy then Injection. I alternate as often as possible... You do realize that when they "fix" something in one place they take something away in another?

[alanisUDL]

I use Kolto Infusion often. I can even say that it is the corner-stone of my balls-to-the-wall HPS rotation. Are you in split-build??

 

Infusion currently is more efficient on energy then Injection. I alternate as often as possible... You do realize that when they "fix" something in one place they take something away in another?

 

You are in the small minority.

[RuQu]

I have both of these classes at 50 with 500+ expertise, and I'd still rather have the Puddle. RN also costs, even in this scenario, significantly more and would still only heal for 2/3 of Puddle, over a longer period of time. I am willing to acknowledge that I'm not exactly sure what the range limitation should be -- I'm assuming that the 15-20 meter range I was suggesting is similar to the AoE range of the Puddle.

 

If we buff the Ops to have their heals "better but still not as good as a Sorc" is that really solving anything?

 

Salvation has a range of 8 meters, compared to 10 on KC.

 

Cut KC energy cost in half, and remove the player cap. Then you have parity in cost and scaling, so then it becomes a question of whether or not the 15s instant cast HoT is balanced against the cast time, 10s HoT that requires zero mobility for the duration but heals for twice as much total. That is a reasonable question, and can be resolved by simply changing coefficients on the two spells until a happy balance is struck.

[alanisUDL]

Salvation has a range of 8 meters, compared to 10 on KC.

 

Cut KC energy cost in half, and remove the player cap. Then you have parity in cost and scaling, so then it becomes a question of whether or not the 15s instant cast HoT is balanced against the cast time, 10s HoT that requires zero mobility for the duration but heals for twice as much total. That is a reasonable question, and can be resolved by simply changing coefficients on the two spells until a happy balance is struck.

 

Ok, I was unaware of the how long 8 meters really was (RN is 8 also). I think a fair balance, if the cost was cut and targets doubled, would be in the 2/3 to 3/4 of revivification range. Even if you give it ALL targets, it still heals for just an awful amount.

[RuQu]

Ok, I was unaware of the how long 8 meters really was (RN is 8 also). I think a fair balance, if the cost was cut and targets doubled, would be in the 2/3 to 3/4 of revivification range. Even if you give it ALL targets, it still heals for just an awful amount.

 

RN has a radius of 10m. Salv and Kolto Bomb/Missile are 8m.

 

RN might heal for a lot less, but the HoT gets attached to the players, not the ground, so they are free to move after getting hit by RN, while they need to stand in the circle for Salv. That mobility sacrifice deserves some compensation. If you make the changes I suggested, hlave RN cost and remove all AoE player caps, then the two will be equal if players stay in the circle for 5s, but Salv will be more powerful if they can manage to stay there longer. I think that is fair, although exactly what that ratio should be is debatable, and can be easily adjusted later for balance.

[Sinemetu]

Normally I'm in favor of buffing to parity rather than nerfing, but in this case I'd say give the sorc aoe heal a target cap and make it smart (all of them should be). Healing is already easy enough. There's no way to make the Op and Merc aoe heals even with Sorc aoe without making the target cap the same and frankly RN would be OP without a target cap.

 

I would like to see Infusion do something additional like refresh KP. As simple a change as that would really improve Op healing. And, of course, do something to make alacrity useful since they dumped it on all our gear.

[Morthis]

I have both of these classes at 50 with 500+ expertise, and I'd still rather have the Puddle. RN also costs, even in this scenario, significantly more and would still only heal for 2/3 of Puddle, over a longer period of time. I am willing to acknowledge that I'm not exactly sure what the range limitation should be -- I'm assuming that the 15-20 meter range I was suggesting is similar to the AoE range of the Puddle.

 

If we buff the Ops to have their heals "better but still not as good as a Sorc" is that really solving anything?

 

I don't know why this concept keeps getting missed. When I talk about the healing of both, I am comparing hps, not healing over full duration. In your scenario, RN would have ~75% of the hps of the puddle. So if the puddle heals for 10k over its 10 second duration (obviously a fictional number, it's not quite that strong ), RN would heal for 7500 in the same 10 seconds, and keep going for another 5.

 

I said before, I think the puddle needs to be brought down some along with the others brought up. Making all aoe heals as strong as the puddle just makes all of them OP.

[Shroudveil]

in a realistic enviroment, in 16man pve, sorc will be hitting ~10targets (at least) with his aoe.

 

lets say that his tick is 350/sec. that is 35600hp/10sec healed if you count the initial tick, add 5sec cd left, that is 35000/15sec (but healed in a 10sec frame which is far superior)

 

operative on the other hand will be hitting 4 people for 450/3sec, 5ticks in 15sec, that is 9000hp in 15sec healed.

 

the differance is huge, nearly 4x more healing in 16mans.

 

imo, in order to be on par, operative needs the cap completly removed AND

 

a)either make total duration 10sec but keep number of ticks 5 (healing in same time frame but healing for less since in the same scenario (10targets) he will be healing for 22.5k vs 36k and his heal will be mobile)

 

OR

 

b)increase the healing by ~30% which will mean his healing will be mobile but much slower (50% slower) but only slightly less hps compared to the sorc (~28-29k vs 36k)

 

edit:

the alternative will be nerfing sorcs single target healing in the ground, so that he is capable of raid healing but not tank healing, but this, imo, is not a good solution since in 4/8mans he will be useless.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Shroudveil

[Menisong]

What is it with people wanting AoE healing to have no limit?

 

I am opposed to mindless AoE spamming on cd...this is what it would be if it heals everyone. They should just boost the healing of RN or limit the amount the sorcs AoE heals or targets. But I am not in favor of another limitlesss AoE heal.

[Donnadarco]

What is it with people wanting AoE healing to have no limit?

 

I am opposed to mindless AoE spamming on cd...this is what it would be if it heals everyone. They should just boost the healing of RN or limit the amount the sorcs AoE heals or targets. But I am not in favor of another limitlesss AoE heal.

 

Have u ever healed 16 man Operations ? You can feel that something is missing. You try keep people up but Dont have the tools to do it. In AOE moments single healing targets with Hots or direct heals is a painstaking work and isnt scaling good in harder content.

 

Healing classes are almost in-Par up to 3-4 targets then efter that, the scaling is shopped off for 2 Classes.

 

There needs to be tools in all healing classes that scales with number of participants in operations and scale with the Conent in operations.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Donnadarco

[Donnadarco]

when we at it i like to see raid-content that isnt Always Always focus on making damage to players. Mechanics in fights below are very special to healers in all kind of ways. Raidencounters doesent always have to be.

 

BOSS dmg tank. Boss Dmg AOE Operation/raid. Boss Cleave MELE......

 

Please remeber fights like below.

 

"Lothheb" in Naxxramas.

 

"Valithria Dreamwalker" in Icecrown Citadel.

 

"General Vezax" in Ulduar.

 

"Chimaeron" in Blackving descent.

 

"Yor'sahj the Unsleeping"

 

Mechanics in these fights are just very special

[Shroudveil]

What is it with people wanting AoE healing to have no limit?

 

I am opposed to mindless AoE spamming on cd...this is what it would be if it heals everyone. They should just boost the healing of RN or limit the amount the sorcs AoE heals or targets. But I am not in favor of another limitlesss AoE heal.

 

a)you never been to 16man probably. when 16people take aoe damage every 10secs and you need 3.5secs to heal 1 with single target healing.. then something is wrong.

 

b)there doesn't exist smart healing in this game, that means, that your 4man aoe hot, or your 3 man nuke, just decided to heal those 3 people that where at 95% and not the other 10 that are dying.. tough luck right? not when luck decides for 10-15min downtime, and very costly repair bills for 16people.