Darklyn Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Only half of any given match can queue together. There are no true premades. Your wrong actually, a guild can make two groups and sign at the same time exactly, untill a game pops so that they have a high chance of entering together and this happens often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morthis Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 In my opinion if people are unsubbing this early in a game when the dev's need to see the data for themselves before making a decision then I pity you all. Patience is a virtue in life, wil you spit the dummy at every oportunity when things dont go your way as quick as you want them to. Having said that I do agree with the OP that having premades in WZ's is definatley a problem as it cause discouragement & frustration in a game that is supposed to be fun. This is not new to Swtor I have encountered this in nearly every mmo I have played, that is my experience but the dev's need the data to act. The patience is a virtue might apply to some aspects of life, but not a game when you're paying to play it to have fun. Not when there's so many alternatives available. Premades thrown in with the solo queues exist in a lot of MMO's, but in SWTOR the impact is much bigger. Solo queue'd players are far more likely than normal to end up vs a premade. Beyond that, most games are huttball, and that one requires more organization than a typical PvP game. On alderaan or voidstar, if you fight near the objectives and hit some aoe's or hit the players trying to click, you're being decently useful even while essentially just going around killing. On huttball this will lead nowhere. The organized team will be protecting the ball carrier, and most likely they'll do a chain of grips or passes that gets him to the finish line pretty quick. You end up needing to either focus fire or knockback players who run ahead of their team for the sake of a grip/pass, and your team likely only has eyes for that ball. Every time someone complains about this, I see the answer "So join a premade", which is obviously an option, but it has it's own issues. For the new player just joining PvP now, he's not gonna have the gear for any decent premade to care about inviting them, at which point all the new player can do is get steamrolled for a while until he has some gear (and then people are surprised some try to afk it). If you have to tell someone to tough it out for the days/weeks/whatever it takes to get good gear, before they can start having fun, and we're talking about a game people are paying for, don't expect them to say "Fine I'll deal with it", equally likely is they'll simply stop pvping or playing at all, and find an alternative that isn't as frustrating. Even past that though, why shouldn't solo queue be an option? If, by solo queuing, you end up against a premade 90% of the time, solo queue is essentially off the table entirely. I've PvP'd in plenty of MMO's, I've been frustrated with the skill level (or lack thereof) in plenty of groups I solo queued with, but I've never played an MMO where every game I solo queued I existed for no reason other than for an organized team to farm me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Your wrong actually, a guild can make two groups and sign at the same time exactly, untill a game pops so that they have a high chance of entering together and this happens often. You must have a low sever pop, because my guild has tried this, as have other guilds on Lord Adraas, and it's not possible with our sever population. It's actually far more common for this tactic to end up with you against your own guild in Huttball. Edited February 8, 2012 by Yfelsung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) PvP ruins every MMO, imo. Too much crying for: -Class balance -Gear Balance -Rank System -More ways to PvP (This is justified, but still lends to more problems) -Harder ways to get gear. -Easier ways to get gear. At the end of the day, this game was never focused or centralized around PvP, but all the PvPers came over to it anyways without researching first. Do your homework when you choose a game, they even had an open beta. The lack of a complicated PvP system is a big part of the reason I chose this game, because PvP in the other games I played was becoming a joke and all the posts about it looked very similar to this one. I dunno, they said they had some of the most experienced pvp developers in the world working on their game, they also said PvP would be a big focus... sounds like my research was pretty good, i was just bamboozled Edited February 8, 2012 by Tic- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMonger Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Actually I'm complaining about gear and there being too many healers. Such as Commandos / Scoundrels / Sage on REP - 3 out of four main classes options offer healers. So you think there's some kind of problem with the fact that out of 99 healers, you'll have 33 each in a different class, as opposed to all 99 in the same class. That's...not a valid complaint. Sorry. No problem with premades and team work if these groups **** each other and not undergeared peeps and on top of that brag and think they are superior skill wise. Etc. They are superior skill wise. They decided to work on their team building as opposed whining about players who want to heal having too many options. They used that time to earn the gear they're now owning you with. Your gear carries you and I bet your vents are full of squeaky sounding elitist nerds. "Watch how I pwn this noob, hahahwaha." >> Yes in your OP heavy battlemaster armor while healing yourself and having some robed fairy spamming a heal on your ***. You do realize you sound jealous, right? There's NOTHING stopping you from gearing up and owning the battlefield. Well...other than the fact that you decided to quit instead of learning to work in a team. Or is this fair and balanced challenging PvP for you people? I mean FFS! People who work together get rewarded. People like you who want to be handed uberness get frustrated and quit. That's...pretty much PvP in ANY MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oofpez Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Cows go moo, Dogs go woof and MMO players go "PVP is imbalanced" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMonger Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Cows go moo, Dogs go woof and MMO players go "PVP is imbalanced" Well that, and he's complaining that healers have too many class options. Yes, you heard that right. The whining has gotten so bad, that NOW they're whining that people have TOO MANY OPTIONS. Which kind of makes it hard to take this guy seriously about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklyn Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Well that, and he's complaining that healers have too many class options. Yes, you heard that right. The whining has gotten so bad, that NOW they're whining that people have TOO MANY OPTIONS. Which kind of makes it hard to take this guy seriously about anything. Well if you think making it so the entire team in a pre can be healer apart from tanks which last forever anyways is a good thing then I suppose my argument is floored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Well if you think making it so the entire team in a pre can be healer apart from tanks which last forever anyways is a good thing then I suppose my argument is floored. If there was only 1 healing class, all those people who rolled the other healing classes would have just rolled the one healer and nothing would change. People usually pick their roll first, then decide on what class fits that roll. I didn't choose Juggernaut then decide to go tank, I chose tank and decided to go Juggernaut. Similarly, I then chose healer and went Mercenary. If, say, only Sorcerers could go healing, then I would have gone Sorc. Healers are going to heal, tankers are going to tank, regardless of how few classes give the option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMonger Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Well if you think making it so the entire team in a pre can be healer apart from tanks which last forever anyways is a good thing then I suppose my argument is floored. You don't HAVE an argument. You have a whine about how you do poorly in PvP because you've CHOSEN to NOT find or create a TEAM to work with, and you're getting your butt handed to you by people who HAVE chosen to find or create teams to work in. Guess what? MMO's aren't for you, since MMO's encourage teamwork and organization. They encourage it by REWARDING the players who practice them. Those rewards consist of gear. That makes them stronger both as individuals and as members of the team. Strong enough in fact to hand individuals like yourself your butts. You want to play a game like Battlefield 3 online multiplayer. But then again, you'd probably start whining about that too because even there you have groups who do better than others because they choose to learn to work together. You might just be out of luck when it comes to multiplayer gaming.... Edited February 8, 2012 by MikeMonger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklyn Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Every time someone complains about this, I see the answer "So join a premade", which is obviously an option, but it has it's own issues. For the new player just joining PvP now, he's not gonna have the gear for any decent premade to care about inviting them, at which point all the new player can do is get steamrolled for a while until he has some gear (and then people are surprised some try to afk it). If you have to tell someone to tough it out for the days/weeks/whatever it takes to get good gear, before they can start having fun, and we're talking about a game people are paying for, don't expect them to say "Fine I'll deal with it", equally likely is they'll simply stop pvping or playing at all, and find an alternative that isn't as frustrating. Even past that though, why shouldn't solo queue be an option? If, by solo queuing, you end up against a premade 90% of the time, solo queue is essentially off the table entirely. I've PvP'd in plenty of MMO's, I've been frustrated with the skill level (or lack thereof) in plenty of groups I solo queued with, but I've never played an MMO where every game I solo queued I existed for no reason other than for an organized team to farm me. I think pretty much the same as this guy about the skill level of your pre's. Just cause you have a bunch of grinders backing you up, and your armor and healing is making you unkillable by random noobs doesn't make you skilled. It makes you a gear grinder, who cares a bout winning to the point that he will tolerate a vent channel and guild rules etc. I might be wrong but I find most pvp vent channels irritating to the point i would rather solo that listen to the [balls still haven't dropped] epeen and elitist bravado of a no life grinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fritz- Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Cows go moo, Dogs go woof and MMO players go "PVP is imbalanced" This is how i feel about it and why i never bother to pursue PVP in mmo games. You will NEVER EVER EVER have balanced pvp in an mmo because of class and gear differences. Its almost like mmo pvp is a running joke at this point. "Oh look at people whine that something that is impossible to make balanced is unbalanced." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiracle Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I really don't understand why they can't have better queue options. Like seriously why can't we have a ranked pre-made guild system ect where guild groups of 8 can queue to face other guilds. Why can't we have a solo queue where it only puts you with other solo players? Why can't we pick our maps? Why is it a game mode stolen from the FPS multiplayer games sucks in comparsion? Because the foundation for SW:ToR is based off a single player RPG. The single player RPG part (story) had allot of work put into it. The single player xp is rich. The MMO side, not so much. People will be back when the MMO side is finished. Until then many aren't going to pay a monthly sub for a single player experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think pretty much the same as this guy about the skill level of your pre's. Just cause you have a bunch of grinders backing you up, and your armor and healing is making you unkillable by random noobs doesn't make you skilled. It makes you a gear grinder, who cares a bout winning to the point that he will tolerate a vent channel and guild rules etc. I might be wrong but I find most pvp vent channels irritating to the point i would rather solo that listen to the [balls still haven't dropped] epeen and elitist bravado of a no life grinder. "Tolerate" a guild and vent channel? My gods man, do you have friends? My guild is a group of friends who have been playing together for half a decade. We're on vent together even when not playing games. Hell, we have bloody movie night on vent where we all download and watch the same movie and comment on it while we watch it. These people I'm playing with are my FRIENDS, not some people I tolerate for good gear. Dude... SOCIALIZE. Make some friends. MMOs are better with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fritz- Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 "Tolerate" a guild and vent channel? My gods man, do you have friends? My guild is a group of friends who have been playing together for half a decade. We're on vent together even when not playing games. Hell, we have bloody movie night on vent where we all download and watch the same movie and comment on it while we watch it. These people I'm playing with are my FRIENDS, not some people I tolerate for good gear. Dude... SOCIALIZE. Make some friends. MMOs are better with them. Honestly i think the term "sometimes you need to unplug" applies here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyradder Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 So just to be clear, you're complaining about people working as a team....in an MMO. Funny. Which is completely cool...but these folks should be fighting teams of the same, not farming PUG's to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korevas Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yup, the gear gap is too much and it will only widen from here. Guess I'll head back to guild wars for pvp, at least they don't have gear there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklyn Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) "Tolerate" a guild and vent channel? My gods man, do you have friends? My guild is a group of friends who have been playing together for half a decade. We're on vent together even when not playing games. Hell, we have bloody movie night on vent where we all download and watch the same movie and comment on it while we watch it. These people I'm playing with are my FRIENDS, not some people I tolerate for good gear. Dude... SOCIALIZE. Make some friends. MMOs are better with them. This made me lol, but yeah your right. Edited February 8, 2012 by Darklyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklyn Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 That's...not a valid complaint. Sorry. They are superior skill wise. They decided to work on their team building as opposed whining about players who want to heal having too many options. They used that time to earn the gear they're now owning you with. You do realize you sound jealous, right? I am jelli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Patience is a virtue in life, Frugality is also a virtue. canceling a sub while you wait for them to fix things is being both frugal and patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellvaan Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Hello everyone, We do appreciate when anyone has taken the time to express their thoughts and concerns. We will be closing this thread, as there is little room for constructive discussion. However, we do value any feedback and do encourage anyone to voice their feedback on the forums. We only ask that feedback focus on Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ itself, and that it is constructive and as detailed as possible. We thank you for your time and your understanding that we've closed this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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