Sup? I'm Overheated.

[TheFluke]

I'm sure this has been said, but please, reduce the heat consumption or increase the speed of dissipation. It's killing me. As opposed to, say, the raid boss.

 

A few preemptive strikes:

 

"L2 Manage your heat, nubs."

 

I do. In fact, it's almost the entire focus of my rotation. Consistent DPS output without turning into a f'ing ball of fire every time I use anything but Rapid Shots. That's all I do, but it's inevitable. Unless you're a pyrotech, you're waiting 2 minutes to pop that vent heat button. In the interim, you're just rapid shotting until that heat bar finally drops.

 

"If your heat was any easier to avoid, you'd be way too OP."

 

Tell you what - make us do less damage. That's right. Make all our skills hit for less but dramatically increase the frequency we can use them and it'll balance out to a hell of a lot more fun. It will indeed effect our burst -tracer, tracer, heatseeker, rail, unload, clean blood off armor, etc - but I'd take a drop in burst over burst and wait a minute any day (that's just me, though).

 

"What are you talking about? I never overheat in Black Talon."

 

Well, let me know how often you say that in EV or Karagga's. I overheat at least four or five times every boss fight, and the most frustrating thing in the world is when the raid leader pleads "burn him down, he's about to enrgage" while I'm staring at a full yellow bar and shooting weak-*** pellets.

 

"Tracer, RS, Tracer, RS, Heatseeker, RS, Rail Shot, RS, Don't be an idiot, RS."

 

Been there, done that, and yes it's effective in at least slowing down the heat, but have you really tried to stick with that kind of rotation?

 

It's kind of liking giving you the keys to a Ferrari then demanding you stay under 40MPH at all times or you'll go all Excitebike and ****.

 

I honestly don't have the solution, but I hope someone is exploring alternatives. I hate to drag Sorcs into this, but you guys have 600 Force. I'm not going to drop a bunch of math but I will tell you we've done experiments between mercs, ops, etc to determine how fast we run out / fill up vs. sorcs healing / dps and it really does not seem balanced.

 

Anyways, that's all. Just please look into it. Or don't. Either way, I'm overheated.

[thorizdin]

You do realize that heat dissipates more slowly the higher up your bar you go, right? Its much better to keep your heat at the level that keeps it dissipating most quickly rather than jumping in and blowing your load till you're in the red.

 

tl;dr learn to manage heat nub

[TheFluke]

No, I had no idea the dissipation was slower the higher you went. I never figured that out in 50 levels and clearing Operations on hardmode.

 

Yes dude, I'm aware. Please re-read some of what I said about why I find managing heat annoying and some suggestions on how to make it more entertaining.

[HarassMe]

you will regen more heat and have more heat to use, by keeping it under 40. There are many ways to do this, even when you creep up over 40.

 

i raid EV/KP and i DO NOT overheat during any fight, unless it goes wrong and i have to spot heal or something.

 

open the fight up with a relic and just go F'ing nutz... i get my tracer stacks up, i use overload every proc and HS when it is off CD. Towards the top of my heat range, i will usually have a proc'd Unload so i will use my thermal override and hit that unload, that crits and natually regens enough heat for another round of tracer and HS.

 

Then i pop vent heat... this will be probably 1min into the fight. At this point i manage my abilities and heat to make sure it does not exceed 40.

 

When i see vent heat coming back around, i cycle through my CD's again and completely blow my load... vent heat and return to managing under 40.

 

I can do this ~3 times during a raid boss and it is VERY RARE that i will need to spam rapid shots.

 

just some info as to how i am managing heat in raid fights, you may find something useful.

[TheFluke]

you will regen more heat and have more heat to use, by keeping it under 40. There are many ways to do this, even when you creep up over 40.

 

i raid EV/KP and i DO NOT overheat during any fight, unless it goes wrong and i have to spot heal or something.

 

open the fight up with a relic and just go F'ing nutz... i get my tracer stacks up, i use overload every proc and HS when it is off CD. Towards the top of my heat range, i will usually have a proc'd Unload so i will use my thermal override and hit that unload, that crits and natually regens enough heat for another round of tracer and HS.

 

Then i pop vent heat... this will be probably 1min into the fight. At this point i manage my abilities and heat to make sure it does not exceed 40.

 

When i see vent heat coming back around, i cycle through my CD's again and completely blow my load... vent heat and return to managing under 40.

 

I can do this ~3 times during a raid boss and it is VERY RARE that i will need to spam rapid shots.

 

just some info as to how i am managing heat in raid fights, you may find something useful.

 

Thanks. This was helpful. I occasionally forget about my CDs given where they are (wtb third middle quickbar) and I wasn't aware that 40 was kind of the sweet spot. I'll give that a shot.

 

At the end of the day though, it's something I need to work on I'm sure, but in a pinch, overheating is crippling. That drives me insane.

[_droider_]

Like you said...if you can maintain your poise throughout a long fight you're fine. Be very explicit about watching your heat. Pop TSO at 40 if you have it, or just use a couple RS, then return to rotation. You'll max you effectiveness if you can stay below that number...40.

 

If you have to burst, that is when you'd pop vent heat and finish your burst or go back to normal rotation.

 

It can be tough, but it's manageable.

[TheFluke]

I think I have to admit that I'm kind of terrible at managing my heat based on your responses. Although, as I said it still feels like a lot of the fun is removed when I'm intently focused on whether or not my balls are on fire.

[midnyt]

Managing heat is what makes our class so fun IMO. It's not just spamming 1,2,3,4,5,repeat but having to actually look at your heat and make decisions based on it to adjust and compensate (saving heat for the burst point in a boss fight ,etc.).

[HarassMe]

Thanks. This was helpful. I occasionally forget about my CDs given where they are (wtb third middle quickbar) and I wasn't aware that 40 was kind of the sweet spot. I'll give that a shot.

 

At the end of the day though, it's something I need to work on I'm sure, but in a pinch, overheating is crippling. That drives me insane.

 

oh man i'm with you, heat is a freaking PUNISHING mechanic... but thats part of why i like it.

 

Think of the math... you're regenning what... 5/sec when under 40. So the longer your heat is kept below that point, you will always be regenning 5/sec. If you keep that up over the course of an entire fight, you have used CONSIDERABLY MORE heat, than if you used your abilities faster and were in a higher heat range.

 

Does that mean we will always be able to stay under there? Absolutely not... there are plenty of situational things that come up, where you gotta overheat. Luckily we do have ways of getting it back under control.

 

If i am just over 50 heat or so, i will pop thermal override and hit death from above... since the cd makes it free and the entire animation of DfA is a little over 3 secs, you will be back under 40 when it finishes. I will interchange DfA with Unload, depending on the situation. If Terminal Velocity procs, that is just more heat vented.

[Yazule]

I'm sure this has been said, but please, reduce the heat consumption or increase the speed of dissipation. It's killing me. As opposed to, say, the raid boss.

 

A few preemptive strikes:

 

"L2 Manage your heat, nubs."

 

I do. In fact, it's almost the entire focus of my rotation. Consistent DPS output without turning into a f'ing ball of fire every time I use anything but Rapid Shots. That's all I do, but it's inevitable. Unless you're a pyrotech, you're waiting 2 minutes to pop that vent heat button. In the interim, you're just rapid shotting until that heat bar finally drops.

 

"If your heat was any easier to avoid, you'd be way too OP."

 

Tell you what - make us do less damage. That's right. Make all our skills hit for less but dramatically increase the frequency we can use them and it'll balance out to a hell of a lot more fun. It will indeed effect our burst -tracer, tracer, heatseeker, rail, unload, clean blood off armor, etc - but I'd take a drop in burst over burst and wait a minute any day (that's just me, though).

 

"What are you talking about? I never overheat in Black Talon."

 

Well, let me know how often you say that in EV or Karagga's. I overheat at least four or five times every boss fight, and the most frustrating thing in the world is when the raid leader pleads "burn him down, he's about to enrgage" while I'm staring at a full yellow bar and shooting weak-*** pellets.

 

"Tracer, RS, Tracer, RS, Heatseeker, RS, Rail Shot, RS, Don't be an idiot, RS."

 

Been there, done that, and yes it's effective in at least slowing down the heat, but have you really tried to stick with that kind of rotation?

 

It's kind of liking giving you the keys to a Ferrari then demanding you stay under 40MPH at all times or you'll go all Excitebike and ****.

 

I honestly don't have the solution, but I hope someone is exploring alternatives. I hate to drag Sorcs into this, but you guys have 600 Force. I'm not going to drop a bunch of math but I will tell you we've done experiments between mercs, ops, etc to determine how fast we run out / fill up vs. sorcs healing / dps and it really does not seem balanced.

 

Anyways, that's all. Just please look into it. Or don't. Either way, I'm overheated.

 

I am doing hard EV and Kar and really not having a lot of issues, what cylinder you using? I am a crit hound with my 2 piece bonus and it is rare for me to overheat, use vent and then overheat again before vent is up again.

 

with a crit buff from an agent on top i think unload is venting way more heat than it uses. For the long fights I only use RapidS, TM, RailS, HS, and Unload for dps

 

the only REQUIREMENT ina long fight for me is TM every 5 seconds to keep the armor debuff on. I give the raid more dps that way even if overheated.

 

one day i was using the wrong cylinder and was overheating like mad, that crit venting is huge.

 

and sorc when oom is hosed vs us having vent heat, it is apples and oranges.

[TempestasSilva]

I like the Heat mechanic, but I understand where you are coming from. As a healer, I frequently need to burst heal which can be as problematic as burst DPSing.

 

If we look at one of your statements:

I overheat at least four or five times every boss fight, and the most frustrating thing in the world is when the raid leader pleads "burn him down, he's about to enrgage" while I'm staring at a full yellow bar and shooting weak-*** pellets.

I know you were probably exaggerating a bit, but what you need to try to do stay below 40 heat as stated above. Since heat is a resource and it generates fastest if you are below 40, the longer the fight, the more heat you've regenerated, the more damage you have done.

 

When you need burst, pop your relics, use an adrenal, max your heat, vent heat, bring back up to around 40. I think you will find its quite a bit of burst.

 

I know it can be frustrating at times, trust me. But I think you can learn to use it better and be happier with it.

[Snagulus]

Some other tips:

 

--TSO will make an additional ability free if you put it at the end of an ability with a cast time AND if the ability's heat is front-loaded. Example: TSO -> TM+Unload. If you have unload casting right as TM finishes, it will also be free. TM into Unload is pretty much the best way to use your TSO on a single target. 32 negated heat, plus vents from crit, and your regen over 4.5 seconds. Most effective if you were below 40 heat, but its also a great way to dive back under 40 if you were in the 55-65 range.

 

--The 4 set bonus changes how you manage heat a bit. Because Rail Shot is free and typically does less damage even with full stacks, its better to cast it when it will allow you to cut a Rapid Shots and continue using priority skills, specifically HSM. It is way more important to be able to cast HSM on cooldown versus making sure Rail Shot is at 5 stacks instead of 3-4.

 

--Many parts of op fights are forced no-dps. It's totally okay to overheat going into these sections and vent off the heat while lava jumping/platforms on soa(and sections of P3 with no traps+shield up)/buttons on fabricator. There are more, but ideally you get the idea and will start looking at fights a little differently.

 

--Making things instant cast cuts the time you would be otherwise naturally bleeding off heat. It's important to be aware that taking time off TM *will* make your heat creep up more than it normally would.

 

--Unload is fantastic. It's almost free under 40 heat, with a chance to actually refund heat, and does excellent damage with barrage proc'd.

 

--If you don't have the extra heat venting from bodyguard, get it. Vent Heat goes from really good to absolutely fantastic.

 

 

Edit:

I think it'd help if you looked at our resource a little differently. Instead of

It's kind of liking giving you the keys to a Ferrari then demanding you stay under 40MPH at all times or you'll go all Excitebike and ****.

 

It's more like we do pretty well normally, and occasionally get to flip out and do a bunch of extra damage. I know it sounds like semantics, but its a big difference when you consider how we're balanced. In case #1, we're balanced around maximum possible and end up holding back all the time. In case #2, we're balanced around our steady damage and can burst really hard.

 

I'm pretty sure #2 is the intended balance point, but I have no idea exactly how well we match up to other classes without being about to record/compare.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Snagulus

[Mistato]

All of this is fine and dandy. When the dps meters come out and you guys are trying to stay steady at 40 and under. People will reconsider inviting you for dps. Just saying.

 

Obviously no numbers to back it up, but it is just a hunch.

[Gariuys]

It's also a hunch this is quite wrong.

 

Couple of tips that maybe you haven't tried yet.

 

Tech crit should be at the soft cap of 35%. Arsenal spec is very crit dependant, not because of the dps, but for the heat venting.

 

Use a relic that gives either power or alacrity, you should have no use for a crit/surge one since you are already at the soft cap.

 

When you need to burst heavily, use your adrenal and relic and let rip, get too 80 heat, and vent then return to "normal" rotation.

 

Forget about having a normal rotation. Dont do it. It's useless, since arsenal is so crit dependant, and only on 2 skills, it doesnt actually have a fixed rotation, it all depends on how much heat you have.

 

Save your free ability CD for unload. unload on it's own is almost heat neutral, with your free ability CD and a crit, and unload virtually always gets one, thats 33 heat you get back. so when for some reason you're at 3rd stage, use it to get back to first stage and regen back to 20 before you fire of a TM again.

 

Get enough accuracy, misses cant crit, and not criting does nasty things to your dps.

[Cxeepfire]

I generally find it fairly easy to manage, here's my thoughts:

 

• 
   
  
• Get Rail shot to cost 0 heat (skill+set bonus).
   
  
• Unload proc is the only RNG to our rotation. Use with caution when at medium/high heat.
   
  
• Utilize cast/channel time to dissapate heat (avoid consecutive instant casts like Unload+Heatseeker).
   
  
• Use Thermal Sensor Override to avoid high heat, not when you already have high heat. (Example: start rotation: Tracer -> Tracer -> Thermal Sensor Override -> Tracer -> Heatseeker etc.)
   
  
• The loss in dps of fitting in Rail shot (w/o 5/5 target lock) and rapids is less than overheating.
   
  
• Crit relics and crit mods can help because of the Terminal Velocity skill.
   
  
• Vent heat is for when you reach high heat by mistake, or need extra nuking for a brief spot.
   
  

 

I like the system, because it is not just a massive mana pool you slowly drain/regen, but a resource you consistently have to monitor and adapt to.

 

Have fun.

 

/Khairn, Mercenary @ Bloodworthy

[Hxxr]

Tech crit should be at the soft cap of 35%. Arsenal spec is very crit dependant, not because of the dps, but for the heat venting.

 

Use a relic that gives either power or alacrity, you should have no use for a crit/surge one since you are already at the soft cap.

 

Don't throw around information that's not true.

 

Crit never uses value as long as you keep power and crit in the same hundred and at 100% accuracy.

 

Alacrity blows for everyone but Inquisitors. The talents are decent, but nothing to get excited about. Not taking crit or power adreanals and relics is a bad idea. Casting faster primarily does one thing for you: Building heat faster.

 

The objective is to deal as much damage wich each point of heat possible.

To do that only one thing is necessairy - use your cooldowns and procs to not pass over 40 heat. Simple as that.

[Gariuys]

Don't throw around information that's not true.

 

Crit never uses value as long as you keep power and crit in the same hundred and at 100% accuracy.

 

Alacrity blows for everyone but Inquisitors. The talents are decent, but nothing to get excited about. Not taking crit or power adreanals and relics is a bad idea. Casting faster primarily does one thing for you: Building heat faster.

 

The objective is to deal as much damage wich each point of heat possible.

To do that only one thing is necessairy - use your cooldowns and procs to not pass over 40 heat. Simple as that.

 

 

I'm having trouble reading your post, but alacrity does not blow for everyone but inquisitors. Its nice for everyone that's primarily dependant on skills with cast times.

The bonus you get from a crit relic once you hit the soft caps is tiny, virtually not noticable, the bonus from using a alacrity relic is 10% less cast time, which translates into a substantial dps increase. Much more then those small boosts to crit and surge. power relic is just fine too, but saying that if you get a nice alacrity drop, and healers dont need it, then it will work just as well if not better then power for bursting at the cost of higher heat production thats true.

 

I've switched to healer spec again, since that is my primary goal, but arsenal spec worked just fine with my healer gear. Only big problem was a lack of accuracy.

[Yazule]

All of this is fine and dandy. When the dps meters come out and you guys are trying to stay steady at 40 and under. People will reconsider inviting you for dps. Just saying.

 

Obviously no numbers to back it up, but it is just a hunch.

 

actually the opposite is true.

 

i try to stay under 40 heat but from time to time i go higher, but think about this

 

 

if you are at 40 heat the entire fight you are pouring out constant damage, if you overheat and hit rapid shot til heat goes down your dps goes down...

 

the total heat spent (which is damage done) is higher on someone that stays at 40 heat the whole fight, using everything the game gives them, and maximizing what they give them.

 

burst damage is lower, but throughput is higher.

 

send me 20 bucks to my paypal account and I will take the time to do the math for you... otherwise not worth my time.

[Yazule]

Don't throw around information that's not true.

 

Crit never uses value as long as you keep power and crit in the same hundred and at 100% accuracy.

 

Alacrity blows for everyone but Inquisitors. The talents are decent, but nothing to get excited about. Not taking crit or power adreanals and relics is a bad idea. Casting faster primarily does one thing for you: Building heat faster.

 

The objective is to deal as much damage wich each point of heat possible.

To do that only one thing is necessairy - use your cooldowns and procs to not pass over 40 heat. Simple as that.

 

i am guessing you were saying crit never loses value not uses.

 

there is a diminishing return on crit, once your crit from the crit stat is at around 30 you start to see it, then there are things that add %crit that most of us have, so 35% crit is about the right place, but to counter your opponent in this, if you have only added 30% due to crit stat the return on a crit relic is still really pretty good as well as more vented heat from crits, while alacrity increases dps on chaneled spells but also increases heat generated (because more casts faster)

 

I go with the crit relic myself, other than that i agree with our healers post

[TheFluke]

Thanks for all of your responses. I took a lot of the suggestions into account and the results were good, but not amazing.

 

In retrospect, the biggest issue I was having was restraining myself. Once I accepted the "just because you can doesn't mean you should" mentality it was a hell of a lot easier to regulate my heat.

 

On a side note, there was nothing really wrong with my rotation, and I was:

 

1. Using the HVG cylinder.

2. Using unload if tracer missile proc'd.

3. Dropping rail shots when available.

 

And so on. I was simply throwing in extra tracers, heatseekers, and when the boss wasn't taking enough dps I'd get irritated and start blasting.

 

Either way this thread was helpful and I appreciate the feedback. The under 40 heat thing helped a lot, and it taught me to hold back a lot more and accept that in a way, I was simply playing the class too aggressively.

[Crestlin]

Oh my brain hurts.

 

Managing your heat needs to be very reactive. Terminal Velocity procs can make or break your rotation. The higher up in gear you get, the more you will notice less spikes and more consistent conservation phases. I like to spike up to 80(sometimes I have to work real hard for this) vent heat as early as possible and then go into a nice steady conservation rotation. If heat is approaching 40-50 use TSO and throw in a rapid shot to get back into optimal range. I have watched countless videos of bad players killing HM/NMM from an arsenel merc POV riding 80 heat the entire encounter, so the fact you are doing "Hard Modes" means nothing.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Crestlin

[Yazule]

Oh my brain hurts.

 

Managing your heat needs to be very reactive. Terminal Velocity procs can make or break your rotation. The higher up in gear you get, the more you will notice less spikes and more consistent conservation phases. I like to spike up to 80(sometimes I have to work real hard for this) vent heat as early as possible and then go into a nice steady conservation rotation. If heat is approaching 40-50 use TSO and throw in a rapid shot to get back into optimal range. I have watched countless videos of bad players killing HM/NMM from an arsenel merc POV riding 80 heat the entire encounter, so the fact you are doing "Hard Modes" means nothing.

 

yeah sometimes hard to overheat on command, last night in hm ops my tank was like "use more heat man, show me those pro overheat skills" and I was like "i cant, i crit too damn much" to which we both laughed

 

agent crit buff is like the cherry on top sometimes.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Yazule

[Angryorc]

I still reckon that Power Shots should lower our heat by 3-5 per usage.

 

In the event that we don't get a crit string and have to burst something down and/or play recklessly.. it's too easy to overheat and it will keep your at semi-useless damage wise level for a long time if you can't use vent.

[Qurons]

tl;dr learn to manage heat nub

All said.

[iYukiFox]

I'm sure this has been said, but please, reduce the heat consumption or increase the speed of dissipation. It's killing me. As opposed to, say, the raid boss.

 

A few preemptive strikes:

 

"L2 Manage your heat, nubs."

 

I do. In fact, it's almost the entire focus of my rotation. Consistent DPS output without turning into a f'ing ball of fire every time I use anything but Rapid Shots. That's all I do, but it's inevitable. Unless you're a pyrotech, you're waiting 2 minutes to pop that vent heat button. In the interim, you're just rapid shotting until that heat bar finally drops.

 

"If your heat was any easier to avoid, you'd be way too OP."

 

Tell you what - make us do less damage. That's right. Make all our skills hit for less but dramatically increase the frequency we can use them and it'll balance out to a hell of a lot more fun. It will indeed effect our burst -tracer, tracer, heatseeker, rail, unload, clean blood off armor, etc - but I'd take a drop in burst over burst and wait a minute any day (that's just me, though).

 

"What are you talking about? I never overheat in Black Talon."

 

Well, let me know how often you say that in EV or Karagga's. I overheat at least four or five times every boss fight, and the most frustrating thing in the world is when the raid leader pleads "burn him down, he's about to enrgage" while I'm staring at a full yellow bar and shooting weak-*** pellets.

 

"Tracer, RS, Tracer, RS, Heatseeker, RS, Rail Shot, RS, Don't be an idiot, RS."

 

Been there, done that, and yes it's effective in at least slowing down the heat, but have you really tried to stick with that kind of rotation?

 

It's kind of liking giving you the keys to a Ferrari then demanding you stay under 40MPH at all times or you'll go all Excitebike and ****.

 

I honestly don't have the solution, but I hope someone is exploring alternatives. I hate to drag Sorcs into this, but you guys have 600 Force. I'm not going to drop a bunch of math but I will tell you we've done experiments between mercs, ops, etc to determine how fast we run out / fill up vs. sorcs healing / dps and it really does not seem balanced.

 

Anyways, that's all. Just please look into it. Or don't. Either way, I'm overheated.

 

I simply cannot see how you are over heating so much. There is no reason you should be overheating. This is one of the, if not THE easiest classes to play its a 3-4 button pushing class.

 

You want no lower than 30% crit without IA crit buff. If you take this and add 15% (tier bonus) you are at 50%. I like to stay at around 32% though. Never stack alacrity, it's so utterly useless for our class and I see so many people using it. This gives you plenty of crit to pretty much vent 8 heat every 3 seconds with our talent. With this high amount of crit it makes Unload pretty useless. While I cannot say for certain without a parser to test, I do not think unload is worth casting unless you are overheating. I mean I'm constantly critting for 3400 on my Tracer and I crit far less of the time for 2400 a tick on Unload. This is why I need a damn parser.

 

Thermal Sensor Override + Unload = AMAZING. After you're unload, hit a rapid shot if you are still a little over heated. Unload should only be used (at least I believe) when you are over heating AND when you have your talent proc to buff it's damage.

 

Vent heat is on a 2minute timer for us Arsenal users; only use it for your burst damaging. I pop adrenal / relic and then I spam non-stop. I TRY TO OVERHEAT then when I get to about 70-80% heat I will vent 66 of my heat and then start normal DPS.

 

Heatseeker is only 16 heat. A lot of people will spam it whenever it is up regardless of their heat and that is bad. It's okay to sometimes wait a GCD or two so you can use an unload or one rapid shot to let your heat cool down. Remember if this crits you also vent 8 heat.

 

With arsenal spec + tier set piece (4) our rail shot is always free therefore it vents heat. You are doing something utterly wrong. I'm sorry; I hope this helps. I have also cleared HM KP/EV and I don't have ANY PROBLEMS with heat. In fact this class is so boring and easy I'm seriously considering rolling a sniper.