Freeborne Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It's good to have it's effectiveness be in line with the rest of crafting skills. Anyone who is shocked or appalled by this apparently hasn't bothered reading PTR notes, forum discussion, or Dev Comments for the past three months. Now you just need to take a closer look at Reverse Engineering. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerolegacy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It's a pointless change. What needed addressed wasn't it's effectiveness, but the value it brings. Endgame biochem is cost effective, saving anyone doing ops 200k or more in credits a night. I can't even find stims, medpacks or adrenals on the GTN, and the rare times I do they are 20k a piece. All they did was upset 400 biochem crafters, and upset the other crafters because they didn't address the real issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I can't even find stims, medpacks or adrenals on the GTN, and the rare times I do they are 20k a piece. You're not putting two and two together here... The reason you weren't finding stims, medpacks, or adrenals on the GTN on a regular basis is because 9/10 Biochem crafters, when asked if they could make some for you, responded with "Lol noob, dump your pointless *** crafting skill and grind up the reusables yourself." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idipper Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) You don't at all know what you're talking about. Currently a Synth weaver can attain 2 augments on belt bracers, (56 main stat) then pop a regular stim off ~100 - and get more main stat than the OLD RAKATA STIM @ 136. And thats only if you didn't crit craft a relic first. You already had access to more stats than a BIOCHEM, we just had it easier/cheaper. Kids are pretty silly now a days At this point, we're better off throwing stims/adrenals/meds into a new profession, comprable to WORLD OF WARCRAFTS first aid (where everyone has access), then make biochem craft implants and something else. Edited February 7, 2012 by idipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernetic Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Biochem is still better than everything else. Everyone with half a brain already crit crafted stuff from synthweaving or artifice (or whatever) and then switched to biochem. I have two rakata relics with augment slots and I'm biochem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varturius Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You're not putting two and two together here... The reason you weren't finding stims, medpacks, or adrenals on the GTN on a regular basis is because 9/10 Biochem crafters, when asked if they could make some for you, responded with "Lol noob, dump your pointless *** crafting skill and grind up the reusables yourself." Only now you're going to have a whole lot more folks farming the mats. Coupled with the bioanalysis nerf I have a feeling these are going to get a whole lot more expensive, not cheaper/easier to get. They need to stop removing weight from the elevated side of the scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idipper Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Biochem is still better than everything else. Everyone with half a brain already crit crafted stuff from synthweaving or artifice (or whatever) and then switched to biochem. I have two rakata relics with augment slots and I'm biochem. I started out biochem, and have been since december 13th. People like me are forced to drop the profession they started with, lose recipes that took thousands of implant reversing, to pickup synth, crit craft bracers/belt, then grab artifice and crit craft relics, then relearn our initial profession and re-attain our recipes. Thats just bull man, 300% bull. Edited February 7, 2012 by idipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varturius Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I started out biochem, and have been since december 13th. People like me are forced to drop the profession they started with, lose recipes that took thousands of implant reversing, to pickup synth, crit craft bracers/belt, then grab artifice and crit craft relics, then relearn our initial profession and re-attain our recipes. Thats just bull man, 300% bull. It is, I'm surprised the synth/artifice BoP's still don't require the profession to use. I'm sure they will eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernetic Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I started out biochem, and have been since december 13th. People like me are forced to drop the profession they started with, lose recipes that took thousands of implant reversing, to pickup synth, crit craft bracers/belt, then grab artifice and crit craft relics, then relearn our initial profession and re-attain our recipes. Thats just bull man, 300% bull. You really aren't forced to do any of that. There is nothing in this game that requires that degree of min/maxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natarii Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Biochem is still better than everything else. Everyone with half a brain already crit crafted stuff from synthweaving or artifice (or whatever) and then switched to biochem. I have two rakata relics with augment slots and I'm biochem. And this is the exact reason why "requires 400 artifice" should exist on the relics, and "requires 400 synthweaving" should exist on the bracers/belts. One should not have access to the best of everything - we should be forced to make a choice. And the crafter should be able to provide himself with something unique. Edited February 7, 2012 by Natarii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinzual Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) And this is the exact reason why "requires 400 artifice" should exist on the relics, and "requires 400 synthweaving" should exist on the bracers/belts. One should not have access to the best of everything - we should be forced to make a choice. And the crafter should be able to provide himself with something unique. Ignore this post, I forgot a simple game mechanic that prevented the absurd idea from occurring at all. Not the quoted post, but this one. Why can't I delete my own posts? Edited February 7, 2012 by Rhinzual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeborne Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) People like me are forced to drop the profession they started with, lose recipes that took thousands of implant reversing, to pickup synth, crit craft bracers/belt, then grab artifice and crit craft relics, then relearn our initial profession and re-attain our recipes. People like you are the reason it had to be nerfed in the first place. No one is forcing you to change your profession. And no content in this game requires that much Min/Maxing. If you want to Min/Max, then it should be ridiculous like that. Oh, by the way? Have fun dropping Biochem, and re-picking up Synthweaving when the next Ops is released with new patterns and mats. The developers clearly stated that the advantage of Biochem was intended to be that it would save you money through reusable stims, and not give you a stat boost. It's not our fault you're missing out on the money saving because you keep switching your profession. Edited February 7, 2012 by Freeborne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achromatis Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You really aren't forced to do any of that. There is nothing in this game that requires that degree of min/maxing. This, so much this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idipper Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 People like you are the reason it had to be nerfed in the first place. No one is forcing you to change your profession. And no content in this game requires that much Min/Maxing. If you want to Min/Max, then it should be ridiculous like that. Oh, by the way? Have fun dropping Biochem, and re-picking up Synthweaving when the next Ops is released with new patterns and mats. The developers clearly stated that the advantage of Biochem was intended to be that it would save you money through reusable stims, and not give you a stat boost. It's not our fault you're missing out on the money saving because you keep switching your profession. Haven't switched my profession once, not sure what gave you that impression. Biochem never gave you a stat boost, you have no idea what you're talking about. You can attain more stats than rakata via 2 augments on bracer/belt/relic + 1 ~100 main stat stim, so that arguments a complete wash. Learn the game a bit - you missed some very key facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natarii Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I will maintain that being able to use the 'unique' items from each crafting profession should not be allowed. Either place a crewskill restriction to these items, or make them BoE so I can sell them. Right now min/maxers are advocating power levelling each profession to 400 to make said items with a crit, dropping said profession, getting another, rinse/repeat, then go biochem for the 'Biochem only' items. While it is completely ubsurd, and unnecessary, the hardcores will continue to do this untill they either cannot, or it is not cost effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeborne Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Haven't switched my profession once, not sure what gave you that impression. Oh, I don't know, maybe this? Originally Posted by idipper People like me are forced to drop the profession they started with, lose recipes that took thousands of implant reversing, to pickup synth, crit craft bracers/belt, then grab artifice and crit craft relics, then relearn our initial profession and re-attain our recipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idipper Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Oh, I don't know, maybe this? Ok, my fault, add an TO BE ON PAR WITH - after the forced to drop professions segment - eitherway, I wouldn't ever drop BIOCHEM. Doesn't change the fact, a fact that not even you can change, that it's hypocritical on its face. Get over yourself. Feel free to address the more important point that you glossed over because it deflated your argument... Prior to this patch, if you were a Synth, you had access to more stats with a simple 2 augments+ a 100stim. Bringing our 400/400 required on use stims below 136 was not entirely warranted - people already had access to better. Biochem was just a money saver/fostered lazy people. Unless you tap into the implant market which is probably the most viable one to date. Again, learn the game. Edited February 7, 2012 by idipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeborne Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Get over yourself. Take your own advice, and learn why they did what they did. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2417047#edit2417047 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idipper Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Take your own advice, and learn why they did what they did. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2417047#edit2417047 Thats the second time you dodged the point, probably because you have no answer. Heres a portion of that post ... Additionally, we've reduced the effectiveness of the BioChem exclusive Rakata Stimpacks to be equal to Energized stimpacks. Their intended benefit is the cost savings they provide over time, not an increase in power. We are also in progress of reviewing the creation costs of many consumables in the game against the economic realities (acquisition cost of purple mission materials on our live servers) and will likely make adjustments to these in the future. See what I had bold? Now if a Synthweaver were to augment craft a belt and bracer, and pop 100 stat stim, they're already beyond the 136 rakata. If that same Synthweaver crit crafted bracers/belt/2relics, and popped 100 stim, they are now well beyond a simple Biochemist. Now if the same Synthweaver crit crafted belt/bracers/2relics, then instead of popping 100 stim, dropped his professions for Rakata Stims/adrenals/meds, then he is in quite a position. Keep dodging the underlaying issue to the entire problem, because you, like Bioware, have no answer. You're a bit of a joke. Lets see if you'll dodge it for a third time. That post from a yellow claimed that Biochem had access to "more power" that derailed an element of skill from raiding. What he and you seem to ignore is that other professions already had access to a MUCH LARGER GAIN - we just saved money. I can teach both you and George a bit about this game. Edited February 7, 2012 by idipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natarii Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 While the above poster is getting somewhat emotional about the issue, he's essentially hitting on what I've been advocating. Either take away 'profession-only' items altogether or give them to every profession. This removes the notion of being able to 'crit craft all your BoP items then jump to biochem.' IMO, no one should have the best of all worlds. Make a choice, benefit from that choice, but don't think you can choose all and benefit from all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phasend Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 yes rakata bracers and belt with aug are pretty good or you could mod out an orange belt and bracer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaidoma Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I think they should just raise the crafting ceiling another 200 points and make the last 100 crafter exclusive items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misinformed Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It's good to have it's effectiveness be in line with the rest of crafting skills. Anyone who is shocked or appalled by this apparently hasn't bothered reading PTR notes, forum discussion, or Dev Comments for the past three months. Now you just need to take a closer look at Reverse Engineering. : ) i dont have a problem with the non BoP items change its the fact that they nerfed the lvl 50 400 biochem rakata peaces to be the same as the lvl 48 proc peaces... <---- Whats the point of being bioChem when I can just buy the ****... It serves me no special attributes to level biochem.... wow had gems, tailoring, alchemy etc etc etc peaces that only benefited the person with that skill... That has been take away from biochem and has not been taken from the other crew skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natarii Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) No other crafting skill can make anything higher than level 48 items - by reverse engineering to artifact they become level 49, but no level 50 items craftable by other crewskills, currently. Why should biochem items NOT be lvl 48/49? Correction: the Rakata items should still be level 50, and I believe are (reusable being the perk they gain over anything else by being level 50, which keeps them in line with other rakata crafteds with the exception that they require biochem to use). Edited February 7, 2012 by Natarii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thats the second time you dodged the point, probably because you have no answer. Heres a portion of that post ... Additionally, we've reduced the effectiveness of the BioChem exclusive Rakata Stimpacks to be equal to Energized stimpacks. Their intended benefit is the cost savings they provide over time, not an increase in power. We are also in progress of reviewing the creation costs of many consumables in the game against the economic realities (acquisition cost of purple mission materials on our live servers) and will likely make adjustments to these in the future. See what I had bold? Now if a Synthweaver were to augment craft a belt and bracer, and pop 100 stat stim, they're already beyond the 136 rakata. If that same Synthweaver crit crafted bracers/belt/2relics, and popped 100 stim, they are now well beyond a simple Biochemist. Now if the same Synthweaver crit crafted belt/bracers/2relics, then instead of popping 100 stim, dropped his professions for Rakata Stims/adrenals/meds, then he is in quite a position. Keep dodging the underlaying issue to the entire problem, because you, like Bioware, have no answer. You're a bit of a joke. Lets see if you'll dodge it for a third time. That post from a yellow claimed that Biochem had access to "more power" that derailed an element of skill from raiding. What he and you seem to ignore is that other professions already had access to a MUCH LARGER GAIN - we just saved money. I can teach both you and George a bit about this game. Excellent post but not to worry. I seriously doubt there is any valid argument against what your saying and the OP doesn't seem to have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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