Bodyguard Mercs need a slight buff.

[Ewert]

I think you misread the 52%. Sorcs heal for double what Mercs do, per person, and three times what an Operative can do, per person. This ratio hold until Mercs and Ops hit their cap, and then the HPS and HPCT advantage of Sorcs explodes as they can heal an additional 4-5 people with that one cast.

Ahh yeah was on my tablet, re-read and seems I missed the "of" there. OUCH. Based on that number then heck yeah we should have 4 target smart healing or 8 target with larger AoE radius and lesser heal value.

In other words, we do "quite a bit" less healing per person on our three than a Sorc does.

 

The unlimited AoE assumption was held by most people, myself included, until the Dev Q&A two weeks ago.

 

As for my previous post, it was only half directed at you. The other half was more general. That mindset, that because one person doesn't struggle everyone who does is terrible and the classes are fine, is one we see a lot on the Healer boards, usually directed at Operatives. It's a very self-centered mindset that is a particular pet peeve of mine.

I wish I had rolled op healer, I initially had planned on it since it seemed the weakest, but for some unknown reason I for once decided to roll a "strong" class (heavy armor healer, easy mode usually =P). Every other game I tend to roll the seemingly underdog class ...

 

OP heal set with HoT being a big part of it is definitely weaker than merc, IMHO, and having the same limit of a high skill requirement in resource management, I'm sure OP healers have the worst currently. Of course I'm fairly certain even they do well, but pretty sure they have the worst of it, sharing resource skill requirement with mercs and not having the IMHO excellent heal setup of mercs (barring AoE which is mediocre but not bad for mercs).

 

So, for mercs I am of the mindset that it is a good class, and mostly l2p issue (especially for group members as was mentioned in above posts, merc resource does not handle stupid group members as easily as sorc resources). For OPs I can not say since have not played one, but reflecting on their skillset which I studied a bit before game launched, they are most likely even less forgiving, and possibly they just can't handle the fights as well as merc or sorc even if played topnotch.

 

Big problem in SWTOR and HoTs is that there are soooo many bossfights where huge *** big hits happen instead of more constant smaller hits. It leaves the conundrum of using HoTs to the max while taking into consideration the big need to be near max hp, since HoTs are already the most prone to overhealing heals (hot someone, the other guy tops him off, wasted resources). I hope the HoTs have nice heal/resource values atleast ...

[RuQu]

Ahh yeah was on my tablet, re-read and seems I missed the "of" there. OUCH. Based on that number then heck yeah we should have 4 target smart healing or 8 target with larger AoE radius and lesser heal value.

 

Yeah, I probably wouldn't even mind the three target (though with groups based on 4, 4 seems logical) if we had smart healing. I might say "can we get bumped to 4" but I wouldn't call it a critical issue.

 

Without smart healing the ability is broken in terms of AoE capability. See the first boss of EV encounter, with people clumped...typical ideal AoE, but KB/KM is useless due to non-smart healing.

 

So, for mercs I am of the mindset that it is a good class, and mostly l2p issue (especially for group members as was mentioned in above posts, merc resource does not handle stupid group members as easily as sorc resources). For OPs I can not say since have not played one, but reflecting on their skillset which I studied a bit before game launched, they are most likely even less forgiving, and possibly they just can't handle the fights as well as merc or sorc even if played topnotch.

 

I think part of the problem of communication here is that when people here you say "Mercs are fine, l2p" they assume you mean the Merc should learn to play, not the Mercs group.

 

I think the other point of miscommunication is that many of us are used to healers who can "heal the stupid." Sorcs are capable of this to a much greater extent than the others as their resource is more forgiving. This means that, with a group of equal skill (not just the healer) a Sorc will do better because they can compensate for a slow-responding DPS while Mercs/Ops cannot. Strangely, Sorcs also get the utility abilities to prevent the need to compensate, such as an absorption shield that increases run speed and an allied pull, both of which could get a slow-response (read: bad) DPS player out of fire before much healing is needed. Why not give that utility to the classes whose resources don't allow them to spare the bad DPS a heal if they stay in? This is the root of much of the frustration.

 

Big problem in SWTOR and HoTs is that there are soooo many bossfights where huge *** big hits happen instead of more constant smaller hits. It leaves the conundrum of using HoTs to the max while taking into consideration the big need to be near max hp, since HoTs are already the most prone to overhealing heals (hot someone, the other guy tops him off, wasted resources). I hope the HoTs have nice heal/resource values atleast ...

 

I have a Math Compendium up on the Healer forums. One of the listings is a comparison of the Operative HoT compared to the other mitigation heals. While both the Sage and Scoundrel HoT have a higher HPS than the Sage/Sorc shield or the Merc/Commando reactive heal (essential due to overhealing tendency), they do not come out anywhere near high enough, or efficient enough to serve as a primary heal mechanic. Operatives use their HoT the way we use Trauma Probe: just keep it up on the tank, and they sometimes toss it at someone who took light damage if they can't spare more than a GCD. They are not a HoT based healer, they are Mercs without SCG, without the armor buff from HSc, without the buffs of KM, and who use a small HoT instead of a reactive heal to slow damage to the tank. Hopefully the 1.2 patch notes will show them some love.

[TempestasSilva]

Looking back I think it WAS mostly a l2p issue, heat management, for healing. Heck when I did solo heal hm ops first few runs, I picked up a few things more on heat management, it was only when the healing felt insurmountable that one notices the final tweaks possible to better it. No real pressure also meant missing the final small tricks.

If you get a chance, I am sure a lot of people could benefit from your experience, please make a thread on heat management tips and tricks.

 

I think you just made me realize the real issue with that last comment. Group mistakes merely cause sorcs to expend more resources, possibly causing a problem if there are too many of them. For bg or op healers still learning tricks of the trade, those group mistakes can cause resource regeneration to get totally screwed, resulting in a wipe. Given that what I have read of sorc resources are true, have not played one.

 

 

I think part of the problem of communication here is that when people here you say "Mercs are fine, l2p" they assume you mean the Merc should learn to play, not the Mercs group.

 

I think the other point of miscommunication is that many of us are used to healers who can "heal the stupid." Sorcs are capable of this to a much greater extent than the others as their resource is more forgiving. This means that, with a group of equal skill (not just the healer) a Sorc will do better because they can compensate for a slow-responding DPS while Mercs/Ops cannot.

You are probably both correct. I AM used to healing the stupid. But part of that is the game culture where if someone dies because they were standing in poo, its still the healer's fault. Fortunately, the raiding environment is ausually different and the poo standers get called out for it.

 

Strangely, Sorcs also get the utility abilities to prevent the need to compensate, such as an absorption shield that increases run speed and an allied pull, both of which could get a slow-response (read: bad) DPS player out of fire before much healing is needed. Why not give that utility to the classes whose resources don't allow them to spare the bad DPS a heal if they stay in? This is the root of much of the frustration.

Crazy, no?

 

 

So again I will try to make my point w/o being too long winded (and I know many of you get this).

BG is fine as is, especially if you learn its intricacies and you are not with poo standers.

However, Sorc can withstand poo standers easier, has ridiculously better AoE while still having decent single target, and tons more utility (interrupt, combat rez, bubble, pull, slow, sprint, etc.)

I pay the same $$ and the developers have said I should be just as viable.

 

The devs have also said they are buffing us and nerfing sorcs, so they must agree. Thus making this thread irrelevant, except that depending on the implementation, our buff may suck, and we still get no more utility.

 

(I wonder if Ewert could single heal 16HM with a sorc. )

[Ewert]

If you get a chance, I am sure a lot of people could benefit from your experience, please make a thread on heat management tips and tricks.

Actually was just thinking of writing a guide from the alacrity / muzzle fluting point of view. Getting a bit bored of actually playing the game due to guild stagnating a bit from lack of activity.

 

Tried for giggles nm Boney in Karagga, solo. Needs rng luck, think best was 16%, but the swipe just hits too hard, if it keeps same or nearby targets too long for multiple swipes it's near impossible... Jarg and Sorno are insane on hm already, really zero mistakes heatwise fight, don't think nm is possible solo. EV might be easier overall, since on Soa ph3 others can help topping people up during no-targets times anyways.

[Brad_Pitt]

Does anyone agree with me that we need a small buff to Bodyguard healing? Most of our heals have good burst if we have enough Crit and Surge but our only AoE ability ends up being used just for the healing increase buff (if you even spec it). Also, our only non-personal shield ability is too weak to have any useful effect. The Devs should change those 2 spells because at the moment they are effectively useless.

 

1a) Increase Kolto Missile healing done by 10-20% and max number of targets to 4 or 5.

 

1b) Add a Smart Healing mechanic to Kolto Missile.

 

2) Increase Kolto Residue effect from 5% to 10%.

 

3) Increase healing done by Kolto Shell by 50-70%.

 

What do you guys think?

 

I agree

 

 

Kolto shell either heals me for the 322-340 it says, or it crits and heals me for around 750, which shouldnt even be possible considering my multiplier is only 75%. I am not sure how that works but I have watched it and tested it a lot. And the effect says it can only happen 1 time every 3 seconds, that is wrong to, it seems to do it 1 time every 3 seconds sometimes, but with multiplie enemies it will sometimes pop off 3 or 4 times in 3 seconds.

[rheia]

From the upcoming 1.2 changes thread: here

 

ritical Efficiency now reduces the cost of Rapid Scan by 8 (down from 16).

Cure Mind no longer reduces the cost of Cure. It now causes Cure to heal the target for a small amount.

Hired Muscle now increases critical chance by 1% per point.

Kolto Missile now affects up to 4 targets (up from 3), improving reliability in group and Operation situations.

Kolto Residue now increases all healing received by 3% (down from 5%).

Kolto Shell now builds 16 Heat when activated.

Supercharged Gas now vents 8 Heat (down from 16) when used and increases all damage and healing dealt by 5% (down from 10%). The shield applied by Kolto Missile now reduces damage taken by 5% (down from 10%).

 

I am sorry, but HAHAHAHAHAH!

 

"We've been heard?"

 

1 extra kolto missle target, no smart heal mechanic, in exchange for insanely crippling efficiency nerf. YEY, have fun healing hm ops and up, guys. And my heart goes out for the poor bodyguards just getting to 50 and going into hm flashpoint gear grind.

 

I'll leave pvp side of things alone, I'm utterly disgusted as is.

Edited March 17, 2012 by rheia

[rolotomasi]

no point play bodyguard anymore. switching to pyro

[RuQu]

I canceled my subscription over it.

 

I already paid for 6 months. I already have a Shadow tank up and our guild is actually short on DPS, so perhaps I'll switch to Gunnery until my sub runs out or they fix this absolutely stupid excuse for balance.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[polopopoo]

Healing an ultimately unrewarding role in games, just got worse! Maybe instead of copying and pasting wow they should have stolen GW2's design. PVP will be way more fun now though, 6 maras and 2 tanks every game instead of 6 sorcs and 2 bh's.

[bbates]

"we have been heard"

 

Well enough said then LOL

 

 

Time to pull it together on the Bodyguard changes, it's a little scary Bio.

 

I guess i really have to ramp up on leveling another class now. Your lucky my guild here is awesome or I'd be out.

[Ewert]

Holy Mother of God, are they joking? That is an insane nerf overall. Are we gonna get paid for doing healing as it will be pain beyond reckoning now? If they are not nerfing also sorc and op too, say goodbye to any merc op healing. Those changes will kill merc burst single target healing, the thing that was our niche.

 

If true, then... Jesus!

[RuQu]

Holy Mother of God, are they joking? That is an insane nerf overall. Are we gonna get paid for doing healing as it will be pain beyond reckoning now? If they are not nerfing also sorc and op too, say goodbye to any merc op healing. Those changes will kill merc burst single target healing, the thing that was our niche.

 

If true, then... Jesus!

 

Ops are getting some buffs:

Their AoE is being substantially buffed:

15s cooldown. Same as before

Heal applied over 6s, down from 18s before.

Cost reduction in their skill tree

10% increase in healing done.

faster tick rate.

 

They are also getting a higher cap on Tactical Advantage (the secondary resource they use for casting Surgical Probe) and a longer duration on TA before it falls off.

 

Sorcs literally got only bug fixes and Noble Sacrifice (whatever Sorcs call it...) now always costs health, which is a trivial nerf as the health cost was never significant because they can either HoT themselves or stand in their own AoE to replace the whole health cost.

 

So short version: Ops are getting buffed. Sorcs are getting bug fixes. And we get...screwed.

 

You and I don't agree on much, but I think we agree that this is close to apocalyptic for Commando/Merc healers.

[rheia]

In all the honesty, ops needed the buff, I'm happy for the guys.

 

From pure theorycraft perspective, sorcs will take a small hit to sustained healing, but it's nowhere as crippling as what is going to be done to us. I fail to see how a mercenary healer is going to be anything other than a liability in any operation group and pvp.

Edited March 17, 2012 by rheia

[RuQu]

In all the honesty, ops needed the buff, I'm happy for the guys.

 

From pure theorycraft perspective, sorcs will take a small hit to sustained healing, but it's nowhere as crippling as what is going to be done to us. I fail to see how a mercenary healer is going to be anything other than a liability in any operation group and pvp.

 

Certainly, the Op/Sc healers needed a buff. I'd argue they needed even more of one than they got, though the RN/KC changes look quite good.

 

I don't begrudge them their buff.

 

The Commando/Merc nerf beating was completely uncalled for, though.

[Cegenaus]

Ops are getting some buffs:

Their AoE is being substantially buffed:

15s cooldown. Same as before

Heal applied over 6s, down from 18s before.

Cost reduction in their skill tree

10% increase in healing done.

faster tick rate.

 

They are also getting a higher cap on Tactical Advantage (the secondary resource they use for casting Surgical Probe) and a longer duration on TA before it falls off.

 

Sorcs literally got only bug fixes and Noble Sacrifice (whatever Sorcs call it...) now always costs health, which is a trivial nerf as the health cost was never significant because they can either HoT themselves or stand in their own AoE to replace the whole health cost.

 

So short version: Ops are getting buffed. Sorcs are getting bug fixes. And we get...screwed.

 

You and I don't agree on much, but I think we agree that this is close to apocalyptic for Commando/Merc healers.

 

are you kidding me? the force surge nerf is huge. now we have no way of regenerating force. they also nerfed the resource proc of dark healing and the activation proc of dark infusion so we lost our low resource cost heal and our burst heal potential. our rotation now consists of dark infusion, resurgence, and innervate without any resource or activation reduction. corruption sorc just got a lot harder

[Sookster]

A slight nerf to the looks of the 1.2 patch, you'll soon see the energy problems operatives currently has with healing, meanwhile the operatives will get better energy management.

 

I'm really not sure what the devs are thinking of right now, a few uncalled for changes.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Sookster

[Sookster]

corruption sorc just got a lot harder

 

You mean it was hard before?

[Ewert]

You and I don't agree on much, but I think we agree that this is close to apocalyptic for Commando/Merc healers.

Yeah, everything except HS got a kick to the gonads.

 

Okay I understand if they wanted to make a all-encompassing nerf to healing as is. But did sorcs get hit as bad? Some say it is trivial what was nerfed, some say not, but was their utility also dropkicked on the head?

 

Granted healing HM solo probably was not intended, as well as aside Jarg&Sorno most fights end up trivial (happens in every game when people are farming stuff), but blimey going on changing the whole healing dynamics of BH and CO at the same time?? This smells of so much bad juju, sweeping changes done in one fell swoop tend to have unintended consequences.

 

Let's hope to god they have enough BH testers in PTS.

 

PS. The Kolto Shell 16 heat cost, ahahahaha... *gurgle* *facepalm* how about they just fix it so it won't proc zillion times sometimes and leave it as one of our heatfree fillers...

Edited March 17, 2012 by Ewert

[TempestasSilva]

I am not going to cry about it yet, but here is the thing that really pisses me off:

 

Without allowing us to copy our character to the PT Server, or at least allowing you to pick a pre-made 50 in at least columni gear, how the F are we supposed to test the changes and provide feedback? This means there will not be enough people testing it before it goes live and its probably going to be a big mess.

 

I am supposed to level a character to 50 and gear it to test the changes? Absurd. I'd rather level another healing class on live and be prepared to swap classes if the changes turn out to be too crappy.

 

 

Edit: Now i am even more pissed off. I looked for a thread in the PTS forums on allowing Char copy, premade 50, or a way to auto level and didn't find one. So, I started one. Lots of people agree. What happens? My thread is closed and a link is made to a thread that was made in the PTS forums but then moved to die in the suggestions forum. Lame.

Edited March 19, 2012 by TempestasSilva

[RuQu]

I am not going to cry about it yet, but here is the thing that really pisses me off:

 

Without allowing us to copy our character to the PT Server, or at least allowing you to pick a pre-made 50 in at least columni gear, how the F are we supposed to test the changes and provide feedback? This means there will not be enough people testing it before it goes live and its probably going to be a big mess.

 

I am supposed to level a character to 50 and gear it to test the changes? Absurd. I'd rather level another healing class on live and be prepared to swap classes if the changes turn out to be too crappy.

 

 

Edit: Now i am even more pissed off. I looked for a thread in the PTS forums on allowing Char copy, premade 50, or a way to auto level and didn't find one. So, I started one. Lots of people agree. What happens? My thread is closed and a link is made to a thread that was made in the PTS forums but then moved to die in the suggestions forum. Lame.

 

The Suggestion Forum: where anything critical of BW gets moved to quietly die out of sight.

 

I'm working with a copied Combat Medic who will be passing me logs and running tests for me. They have a Sage and Scoundrel guildie so I will try and do some class balance comparisons from them running the same HM FPs with the same tank/dps guildies so we can try and stabilize a few of the variables.

 

They have a thread here for people to propose questions and tests for them.

[Yazule]

The Suggestion Forum: where anything critical of BW gets moved to quietly die out of sight.

 

I'm working with a copied Combat Medic who will be passing me logs and running tests for me. They have a Sage and Scoundrel guildie so I will try and do some class balance comparisons from them running the same HM FPs with the same tank/dps guildies so we can try and stabilize a few of the variables.

 

They have a thread here for people to propose questions and tests for them.

 

our guild has volunteered to raid on TS... if we get in i will be sure to get you our BG healers logs.

[Djhots]

are you kidding me? the force surge nerf is huge. now we have no way of regenerating force. they also nerfed the resource proc of dark healing and the activation proc of dark infusion so we lost our low resource cost heal and our burst heal potential. our rotation now consists of dark infusion, resurgence, and innervate without any resource or activation reduction. corruption sorc just got a lot harder

 

Wrong...

 

Conclusion / TL;DR

Ok, the net takeaway from this is that while we are certainly getting a good swing of the nerfbat, it's not nearly as bad as it looks on the surface. Healing is going to take a bit of an efficiency and emergency healing hit, and will need alter strategies a bit to re-optimize after the change, but overall is coming away fairly unscathed, and in fact are gaining a bit of raid utility and mobility out of the deal.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=364287

[TempestasSilva]

I'm working with a copied Combat Medic who will be passing me logs and running tests for me. They have a Sage and Scoundrel guildie so I will try and do some class balance comparisons from them running the same HM FPs with the same tank/dps guildies so we can try and stabilize a few of the variables.

 

They have a thread here for people to propose questions and tests for them.

 

Thanks for the heads up!