Hybrid Assassin Nerf today

[DarkCyanide]

So changing charge modes now costs 100 FP..

 

Additionally you make induction only work within Surge mode..

 

So your'e basically making a Hybrid spec Assassin a near non-viable option. Bioware c'mon, don't force people to play the game how YOU see fit.

 

I could see maybe an increase to 75 pts, if there really WAS something broken about switching charge modes, which there is not. All I see here is people complaining that it's a terrible class and Deception/Surge mode isn't even playable.

 

Deception being the best tree next to Darkness, why try to stop people from switching modes by completely draining the FP? I need a reason, a good one.

 

I'm 13/23/5 swaping charges mode is a part of what the Assassin is about.

 

So which is it? Is Deception so terrible it's not playable? Or is being a hybrid spec Assassin a game breaker?

 

I see no evidence of either. I feel you made an unneeded class change.

[Invitcted]

Deception really just is that bad, It's got the worst damage and the worst survivability (only marginally worse then madness but madness has something).

 

Breaking the hyrbid had to happen and not just so we can play the game 'BW's way'. Assassin's have two roles we have to be able to fill both roles in some way we need to have two roles viable in each aspect of the game. As it stood the hybrid mixing darkness' survivability with madness' damage was inheritly breaking pvp for the assassin (which isn't to say they shouldn't be taking steps to improve dps assasin survivability in PvP).

 

I think our perceived poor pvp survivability isn't just that, it's a compound issue with having poor survivability (which we do have) and off spec healers (Sorcs, mercs and ops) doing way to much healing with no investment in their healing tree.

[AnimalPotential]

Wait, did you just smoke a whole damn field of weed?

 

You did NOT just say that assassin has poor survivability?

On my assassin (Hybrid) I can singlehandedly take on 2-3 players in full battlemaster gear (while only wearing champion gear myself, even though I am battlemaster), and usually have NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER with this.

 

If you play on Jung-Ma, please confirm that I do this on Tigerex on a daily basis, just to avoid the ******* responses that I know is about to come.

 

And if you have a healer with you, that you guard, you can hold off a team of 4-8 pugs pretty much single-handedly.

 

We have the highest survivability, the most CC, the most utility, and ****loads of damage.

In my spec, I can throw out 3-4 attacks that all crit between 2.5k and 4k in a row if I pop a relic or a stim. Thats 8-16k damage in 4 seconds, while not taking damage whatsoever.

 

 

Either you have no understanding of your class whatsoever,or you are lying through your teeth on this forum to avoid a badly needed nerf.

[Maztif]

I cant believe!

 

BW thought it was a bigger issue to play a hybrid assassin than Ilum lagg and crashes. Soo pathetic, the unsub is on the horizon...

[Siddicus]

Just a quick jab at making a hybrid spec with the upcoming patch in mind, critique would be appreciated

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MsMszrsZhRr0kZf0c.1

 

few notes, i opted for the increased damage of shock over force pull and spike in combat, was unsure about it all but wanted to get the most badges and deal more damage in warzones with the playstyle that i am use to which is full Deception.

[AnimalPotential]

Just a quick jab at making a hybrid spec with the upcoming patch in mind, critique would be appreciated

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MsMszrsZhRr0kZf0c.1

 

few notes, i opted for the increased damage of shock over force pull and spike in combat, was unsure about it all but wanted to get the most badges and deal more damage in warzones with the playstyle that i am use to which is full Deception.

 

I would rework it, too many holes that are key for success.

[Siddicus]

I would rework it, too many holes that are key for success.

 

Suggestions? i am trying to keep dark charge as the primary charge i use.

[AnimalPotential]

Suggestions? i am trying to keep dark charge as the primary charge i use.

 

Well, il give you a few clues, I never share or build for anyone else, but il let you figure it out:

You are killing at least 2 MASSIVE utility moves, that you have traded for minimum gain.

You are lacking one of your key survivability abilities.

You have put points in minimum gain without commiting properly to it.

[Goror]

Well, il give you a few clues, I never share or build for anyone else, but il let you figure it out:

You are killing at least 2 MASSIVE utility moves, that you have traded for minimum gain.

You are lacking one of your key survivability abilities.

You have put points in minimum gain without commiting properly to it.

 

 

srsly?

[golfwang]

Wait, did you just smoke a whole damn field of weed?

 

You did NOT just say that assassin has poor survivability?

On my assassin (Hybrid) I can singlehandedly take on 2-3 players in full battlemaster gear (while only wearing champion gear myself, even though I am battlemaster), and usually have NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER with this.

 

If you play on Jung-Ma, please confirm that I do this on Tigerex on a daily basis, just to avoid the ******* responses that I know is about to come.

 

And if you have a healer with you, that you guard, you can hold off a team of 4-8 pugs pretty much single-handedly.

 

We have the highest survivability, the most CC, the most utility, and ****loads of damage.

In my spec, I can throw out 3-4 attacks that all crit between 2.5k and 4k in a row if I pop a relic or a stim. Thats 8-16k damage in 4 seconds, while not taking damage whatsoever.

 

 

Either you have no understanding of your class whatsoever,or you are lying through your teeth on this forum to avoid a badly needed nerf.

 

Op clearly meant deception.

[Kajin-Diablo]

Deception tree was never meant to use Dark charge. that is why the Dev's did this patch.

they have always said from the begginning they strongly disagree with hybrid builds and would rather you go the full tree. But you really have to learn the mechanics of playing an assassin as the stealth type killer. you HAVE to utilize stealth if you want to survive in pvp.

Pve just dont jump in mobs first and you will be fine, use your cd's. yes losing Dark charge if you was a hybrid sucks. but i think people will eventually see that Surging charge adds so much more damage... and fun.

 

Deception gains surging charge in the tree. I use full Deception. yes you cannot tank with it...

at all. you will be a lot more squishy if you go this tree rather than Darkness b/c you will lose Dark ward and you will need to change your stats to crit/surge/acc rather than shield/def.

But, i just recently switched from a tank build (Darkness) to dps (Deception) and i am in love with the overall fun factor of dps'ing someone down in pvp or in all flashpoints.

My guild loves having me on their team now b/c of the dmg output. almost any attack i do throws a crit and hits for at least 3k. (every attack = to be massive damage)

[verfallen]

Without even investing a single point in darkness, the buff not being linked to Surging charge and usable in Dark Charge allowed for way too much damage for the resistance. The thing could be compared to a mara on steroid with damage resistance.

 

Way too much up front for a tank. I do somewhat think the saber charge switch cost is overdoing it tough. Flexibility in battle is something that can be done without the issue to proc being given when they shouldn't. The 50 force cost was somewhat hefty. In comparison, merc, PT and warriors can change saber style/ammo with little consequence.

[SynapseX]

 

We have the highest survivability, the most CC, the most utility, and ****loads of damage.

In my spec, I can throw out 3-4 attacks that all crit between 2.5k and 4k in a row if I pop a relic or a stim. Thats 8-16k damage in 4 seconds, while not taking damage whatsoever.

 

 

Either you have no understanding of your class whatsoever,or you are lying through your teeth on this forum to avoid a badly needed nerf.

 

 

Hey, you need to quiet down before people wise up on how good assassins can be.

 

But yeah, im usually at 300k+ damage, 75k+ protection and 50k+ healing every match, 10-14 medals.

 

This patch slightly buffs my spec as well.

[ExarKyp]

I posted this on another thread but this one seems to be getting more traction.

 

Just because the devs for bioware don't LIKE people to play hybrid specs, that is NO REASON to deny them. Not allowing true hybrid specs is one of (not the only, but one of) the MAIN reasons I left WoW. The ability to take an apple, an orange and a lemon and make myself a citrusy blend of orange and lemon to my liking makes the drink (or class if you follow the parody) more MINE. Simply climbing up the tree to get to the top makes for a SERIOUS lack in individuality of playstyles.

 

FOR ONE, I play a 27/14/0 spec - I don't know that I've seen ANYONE with it. It has faults, of course, but it is the spec I ENJOY running. It's not a tank, its not a pvp MASTER, and its not a damage god. It's just the utilitarian pve solo questing survival spec that I enjoy playing.

 

In conclusion - find a way to limit people's ability to be 'Overpowered' as some have described a Deception Assasin in Dark Charge, without limiting people's ability to make classes their own.

[Savoifair]

Hey, you need to quiet down before people wise up on how good assassins can be.

 

But yeah, im usually at 300k+ damage, 75k+ protection and 50k+ healing every match, 10-14 medals.

 

This patch slightly buffs my spec as well.

 

Would love to see a picture of that.

[Belcorwyn]

Hey, you need to quiet down before people wise up on how good assassins can be.

 

But yeah, im usually at 300k+ damage, 75k+ protection and 50k+ healing every match, 10-14 medals.

 

This patch slightly buffs my spec as well.

 

 

I find this hard to believe.

 

I'm wearing all Survivor champion/columi gear, and I rarely get above 150k damage, no matter how much I'm not focusing on objectives and just trying to kill crap. I'd like to know what kind of gear you're wearing to get 300K damage plus 75k protection and 50k healing. It just doesn't seem feasible to me.

 

Did you modify the Survivor gear with Stalker mods? Do you simply use Stalker sets?

 

Bear in mind that I've only recently gotten geared, so I'm still trying to work out how to balance PvE survivability as a tank with my usefulness in PvP matches. That being said, I'd be surprised if your statement doesn't contain a bit of hyperbole.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Belcorwyn

[Jatne]

Wait, did you just smoke a whole damn field of weed?

 

You did NOT just say that assassin has poor survivability?

On my assassin (Hybrid) I can singlehandedly take on 2-3 players in full battlemaster gear (while only wearing champion gear myself, even though I am battlemaster), and usually have NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER with this.

 

If you play on Jung-Ma, please confirm that I do this on Tigerex on a daily basis, just to avoid the ******* responses that I know is about to come.

 

And if you have a healer with you, that you guard, you can hold off a team of 4-8 pugs pretty much single-handedly.

 

We have the highest survivability, the most CC, the most utility, and ****loads of damage.

In my spec, I can throw out 3-4 attacks that all crit between 2.5k and 4k in a row if I pop a relic or a stim. Thats 8-16k damage in 4 seconds, while not taking damage whatsoever.

 

 

Either you have no understanding of your class whatsoever,or you are lying through your teeth on this forum to avoid a badly needed nerf.

 

Tanks, tanking... stop the press!

[Jatne]

I find this hard to believe..

 

That is because it doesn't happen, unless he is playing against fresh 50s with less than 12k HP.

 

The protection medal + self healing from Dark Charge is merely ability spam. Of course if you premade with a healer I would be even less impressed.

 

300k damage I find hard to believe, that requires a lot of up time. Which you shouldn't have vs. non-clueless teams.

 

I'd be interested to see a none-premade screenshot of 11-12+ medals in a few weeks after they nerf the water.

[upzie]

I find this hard to believe.

 

I'm wearing all Survivor champion/columi gear, and I rarely get above 150k damage, no matter how much I'm not focusing on objectives and just trying to kill crap. I'd like to know what kind of gear you're wearing to get 300K damage plus 75k protection and 50k healing. It just doesn't seem feasible to me.

 

Did you modify the Survivor gear with Stalker mods? Do you simply use Stalker sets?

 

Bear in mind that I've only recently gotten geared, so I'm still trying to work out how to balance PvE survivability as a tank with my usefulness in PvP matches. That being said, I'd be surprised if your statement doesn't contain a bit of hyperbole.

 

What he said is quite true, this a random SS from some solo queing I did with my tank specc, no pocket healer. Darkness pvp is laughable easy to do well with.

 

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8707/screenshot2012020501595.jpg

 

Yes we did loose the game, but I cant really carry 7 other ppl if they are all underperforming.

 

That is because it doesn't happen, unless he is playing against fresh 50s with less than 12k HP.

 

The protection medal + self healing from Dark Charge is merely ability spam. Of course if you premade with a healer I would be even less impressed.

 

300k damage I find hard to believe, that requires a lot of up time. Which you shouldn't have vs. non-clueless teams.

 

I'd be interested to see a none-premade screenshot of 11-12+ medals in a few weeks after they nerf the water.

 

thats just silly at best.

Edited February 7, 2012 by upzie

[Belcorwyn]

What he said is quite true, this a random SS from some solo queing I did with my tank specc, no pocket healer. Darkness pvp is laughable easy to do well with.

 

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8707/screenshot2012020501595.jpg

 

Yes we did loose the game, but I cant really carry 7 other ppl if they are all underperforming.

 

 

 

thats just silly at best.

 

This screen shot must have been taken a while ago, since there's no conceivable way that you could get a 5k+ heal without using a medpack... and medpacks no longer produce healing medals.

 

That being said, this looks like a darkness/madness hybrid. I clicked on your sig link and I see that you use Stalker gear, which makes sense. I'm betting that makes all the difference, so I'll start collecting some stalker gear, as well.

 

Thanks!

[Sabbathius]

This screen shot must have been taken a while ago, since there's no conceivable way that you could get a 5k+ heal without using a medpack... and medpacks no longer produce healing medals.

 

Wrong. There is a way. And it works, because I've just done it this morning. And no, I'm not going to tell you how. And yes, it involves a consummable.

[Drokisannath]

Wrong. There is a way. And it works, because I've just done it this morning. And no, I'm not going to tell you how. And yes, it involves a consummable.

 

Confirmed

[upzie]

This screen shot must have been taken a while ago, since there's no conceivable way that you could get a 5k+ heal without using a medpack... and medpacks no longer produce healing medals.

 

That being said, this looks like a darkness/madness hybrid. I clicked on your sig link and I see that you use Stalker gear, which makes sense. I'm betting that makes all the difference, so I'll start collecting some stalker gear, as well.

 

Thanks!

 

this ss is about 3 days old.

 

The healing is a consumable, not medpac.

 

And its a 23/3/15 (was playing around with a specc w/o raze)

 

And no the gear I was wearing was 4/5 survivor gear with stalker mods, and stalker implant, earpiece wrist etc.

[DarkCyanide]

wow interesting responses.

 

to begin, i dont pve, period. i did my story and stealth-ed through mobs to my darth title and had muh guildies help me with the final boss. im here for pvp and pvp only. pvp'ed my levels all the way up. i prolly should have mentioned that in my OG post.

 

that said...

 

@ the second post on the thread. your'e high, deception is easily in the top three PVP DPS up there with the Operative and Powertech.

 

deception has a multitude of tools and methods for eliminating single target and fulfilling objectives.

 

darkness/ dark charge mode was recently fixed some patches back to actually provide a heal. the armor bonus and shield has always been nice, but again, to me great in pvp in ONLY SOME circumstances.

 

yes i stated what my build was by dropping my numerical values, but that doesnt mean you know what moves i spec into and how/when i use which charge/ability.

 

im not gonna play the game the way bioware wants me to. you cant force me to fully spec into a skill tree, especially when that was a totally viable option for playing a class. there are quite a few classes in this game that have viable dual spec option; operative (melee/heal), sorc (madness/ heal). if youre gonna give me a way to change stances and allow me to get the moves by using the point system you created, i should be able to switch as it was originally created.

 

thats why COH died, devs tried to force players to play a specific way, not the way players wanted to. im gonna stay hybrid because honestly, the top tier pay off moves are terrible. voltaic slash is a garbage button mashing noob spam move. and every other moves above the third tier in darkness MINUS wither is terrible also (force pull is nice, but not worth going up that far to grab).

 

i never really planned on playing another class and have been an assassin since June of beta. this is a ridiculous change to the way the assassin was meant and should be played. i could care less about pve and i know for a fact that this is a change to way it will work in pvp (honestly who would change charges in pve while fighting mobs, just silly to think that).

 

devs change it back or at least make it 60/75/80 pts if youre worried about it being OP. making it 100 is just ridiculous. might as well just force me to not be able to spec points into separate trees.

 

btw if you think deception is only a pve build, then clearly you never learned the class.

[Belcorwyn]

Wrong. There is a way. And it works, because I've just done it this morning. And no, I'm not going to tell you how. And yes, it involves a consummable.

 

I guess I'll need to get a drink of water...