Are Sith really evil?

[Isilme_Turuphant]

Really? You think taking children and throwing them into the meatgrinder of Korriban is "more genuine?"

 

The only thing they learn there is "kill or be killed." Making actual friends? No. They'll betray you, or will be used against you. Falling in love? No. The person you're in love with has an extremely high chance of dying at any moment (so do you), and the overseers may well just randomly kill one of you to try and make the other "stronger through their grief."

 

It's no wonder most sith come across as absolutely nuts. Think about it. They're thrown into a situation, as children, where they can NEVER relax. For a decade or more. If they relax, even for a moment, they'll probably get killed. They're thrown into suicidal situations with the overseers saying "You probably won't come back. I hope you don't, you weakling." The other students are out to kill them. The TEACHERS are out to kill them. The only way to survive is to be wholly self-sufficient and introverted, while watching over your shoulder at all times.

 

I'd MUCH rather be a jedi. At least I can quit if I ever get tired of it.

 

I find it interesting that the one thing the establishments of BOTH the Jedi and the Sith agree upon, almost universally (Though with different methods of enforcement) is that attachments such as love, strong friendship, or family, as bad things.

 

For the Jedi, they can lead to grief, anger, and the Dark Side.

 

For the Sith, they lead to hesitation, a weakness for peers and enemies to exploit, and a softening of the constant rage a Sith must maintain to support his power.

 

Both sides take measures to prevent attachments. Sith train their acolytes to distrust, disdain and fear each other from the start, and Jedi train their Padawans to distance themselves, control their emotions, and sever attachments.

 

The amusing part is, in both cases they are fighting a losing battle.

 

People form attachments. It's part of our natures. Remove family and friends? Students bond with Masters. Even on the Sith side we've seen students who are devoted to their masters to the point of sacrificing their own bodies and souls willingly. We've seen Jedi Masters driven to the Dark Side from their loss of their Padawans. We've seen both Sith and Jedi literally come back from the dead to help those they cared about.

 

Even canonically. Obi Wan and Anakin. Their relationship is that of two brothers. They're a family, and remain so even after Anakin is a Knight in his own right. Qui Gon was a father to Obi Wan. There's no blood relation, but the relationship is there.

 

I'm pretty sure half of the Jedi who go Dark side is just because the Jedi are so utterly lousy at dealing with the problem. I'm sure anyone who knows anything about psychology, grief management, and how to raise healthy and emotionally stable individuals would tell the Jedi You're doing it wrong.

 

As for the Sith, well... Maybe if they got more hugs they'd be nicer?

[Ticara]

Yes, the Sith are really evil.

 

 

No, they aren't. They simply live by the idea of "only the strong survive". The Sith way is largely about embracing your emotions and using them to gain freedom and power. The way how an individual Sith achieves this determines wether or not he/she is actually evil by our standards or not.

 

Take for example Thana on Taris. She is a perfect example of your classic baby eating Sith, utterly destructive and uncaring. Then we have Lord Praven (I think thats his name, the Sith Lord the Jedi Knight fights on Tatooine). He only kills those he deems worthy, as in people that can actually put up a real fight and doesn't harm bystanders/innocents when it is unnecessary. He truly believes the ways of the Sith are righteous and he follows a personal code of honour. While he certainly isn't what one might call a hero or truly good, he certainly isn't evil either.

 

 

In the end, saying that Jedi are really good and Sith are really evil is overgeneralizing. It depends on the individual you're looking at.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Ticara

[owenthorn]

yes they are because good is dumb.

[Mechavomit]

By our standarts, yes, they are. By most standarts they are. Their methods are selfish and cruel, sure they are evil.

The Dark Side is genuinely evil itself. It's like cancer of the force. The darksiders just keep craving more power, destroying everything they love and just go insane in the end, loosing everything.

There are Sith, that think more powerful emotions than hatred or fear exist. Like ..gasp.. love or courage. But they are in the minority.

[Ravshar]

Yes. Sith are evil. I am refering to the organization though, not just anyone that uses the Dark Side of the Force.

 

There may be exceptions to the Sith=Evil rule, but they'd be few and far between. Most "good" force users wouldn't even survive the trials without giving up their "goodness". The watered down version the players go through doesn't detail it all. (I am still LOLing at earning 100 light side points for pardoning an attempted murderer so she can kill people for my team instead.)

 

Its possible that a Sith could turn good later, but unlikely. Some odd event would be needed to shift them away from their beliefs. Not to mention that their fellow Sith would slaughter them if it became known. The Sith as a whole view "good" people as weak and would never allow one to remain in the ranks. Also remember that many Force Sensitive people can often sense emotions in others. This would greatly increase the difficulty of hiding it for all but the most skilled. More than likely they'd have to leave the Sith and the Empire entirely or give up their "goodness" trying to hide it.

 

 

As to wether or not everyone that uses the Dark Side of the force is evil... who knows. As mentioned a few jedi characters use a dark-side skill or two. And their are plenty of non-jedi & non-sith force using organizations. I find it hard to believe that in a fictional galaxy worth of force-sensitvies that their wouldn't be a few individuals that use the Dark Side for good causes. They would be the exception though, not the rule.

 

Also, as to people swearing by whatever Lucas has said in the past. I think you'll find that anything can be ret-conned or changed if something comes along worth changing it.

[LyriaFrost]

No, they aren't. They simply live by the idea of "only the strong survive". The Sith way is largely about embracing your emotions and using them to gain freedom and power. The way how an individual Sith achieves this determines wether or not he/she is actually evil by our standards or not.

 

They go well beyond "only the strong survive", though. They actively KILL the strong, as well as the weak, in order to move themselves ahead. Acolytes, no matter how promising, will get knocked off at the whim of the overseers on Korriban. Each "class" of students has, I would guess, roughly a 10-20% survival rate. This isn't just "weeding out the weak", it's weeding out almost EVERYONE.

 

Take for example Thana on Taris. She is a perfect example of your classic baby eating Sith, utterly destructive and uncaring. Then we have Lord Praven (I think thats his name, the Sith Lord the Jedi Knight fights on Tatooine). He only kills those he deems worthy, as in people that can actually put up a real fight and doesn't harm bystanders/innocents when it is unnecessary. He truly believes the ways of the Sith are righteous and he follows a personal code of honour. While he certainly isn't what one might call a hero or truly good, he certainly isn't evil either.

 

In the end, saying that Jedi are really good and Sith are really evil is overgeneralizing. It depends on the individual you're looking at.

 

Except it's not about individuals. It's about the sith society as a whole. Individuals can overcome it and try to wrench themselves free from the overwhelming miasma of hatred and fear that suffuses the entire sith society. But these are rare individuals, not examples of the norm. Just like jedi who are dark and malevolent. They're not the norm, but they do happen.

 

Sith society is dark, twisted, and evil. The fact that nearly all sith that manage to survive to adult hood are equally as twisted is a clear indicator of it.

[Mugo]

Alright, I'm hearing a lot of adversity towards the Sith. I'll agree that they have corrupt leaders, yes... But let me offer this as a follow-up question?

 

Are the Jedi a necessarily good organization?

 

Corrupt leaders? Some of dark council members are light side Sith, practicing "dark side of the Force" which gives them full power. For example, you can encounter such Sith at the end of Sith Warrior class story. Also, Emperor himself involved as someone who wants to save Dark Council from it's own member corruption. Interesting, isn't it?

Edited February 25, 2012 by Mugo

[Ticara]

They go well beyond "only the strong survive", though. They actively KILL the strong, as well as the weak, in order to move themselves ahead. Acolytes, no matter how promising, will get knocked off at the whim of the overseers on Korriban. Each "class" of students has, I would guess, roughly a 10-20% survival rate. This isn't just "weeding out the weak", it's weeding out almost EVERYONE.

 

 

 

Except it's not about individuals. It's about the sith society as a whole. Individuals can overcome it and try to wrench themselves free from the overwhelming miasma of hatred and fear that suffuses the entire sith society. But these are rare individuals, not examples of the norm. Just like jedi who are dark and malevolent. They're not the norm, but they do happen.

 

Sith society is dark, twisted, and evil. The fact that nearly all sith that manage to survive to adult hood are equally as twisted is a clear indicator of it.

 

 

 

Okay, mabye I should've worded that better. Yes, the society of the Sith in general is pretty fubar, but the original teachings of the Sith way aren't inherently evil, atleast in my oppinion.

[Ravshar]

Okay, mabye I should've worded that better. Yes, the society of the Sith in general is pretty fubar, but the original teachings of the Sith way aren't inherently evil, atleast in my oppinion.

 

 

 

Based on the original teachings? Of the Sith or their Dark Jedi Masters? The Sith were a race, ruled over by Dark Jedi outcasts. They inter-bred until they were one entity. Their original techings were intended to be evil.

 

Wether or not a force sensitive being can use emotions or not is a different question. The Sith though, were evil before they were ever known as Sith. The teachings they made, therefore, would have been designed to promote that evilness.

[JediElf]

I'd rather rule over my emotions, as a Sith.

 

Than be in constant battle with them, as a Jedi.

[Romick]

Some of dark council members are light side Sith

 

There is absolutely no evidence that this is true, except for MAYBE

a light side Sith Inquisitor.

Every member of the dark council is pretty much out for themselves, and want to kill each other. Darth Vowrawn is not a light side Sith.

 

Also, Emperor himself involved as someone who wants to save Dark Council from it's own member corruption. Interesting, isn't it?

 

You do know that the Emperor's plan is to kill every living thing in the galaxy (that includes everybody in the Empire) right? What a great leader!

Edited February 25, 2012 by Romick

[AlatarTheGrey]

As an organization, the Sith are evil. While individuals may differ, the mainstay of the population and those who direct the Sith and the Empire at large are evil.

 

Anyone read the Star Wars (non-movie) novels? The depictions of the Emporer and Dark Council leave no doubt that the Empiae and Sith are evil. But I agree with above response: that doesn't make everyone in the Empire evil, or everyone in the Republic good. The "Hand of Judgment" did more "good" than a lot of Republic units in the novels.

Edited February 26, 2012 by AlatarTheGrey

[OldVengeance]

I'd rather rule over my emotions, as a Sith.

 

Than be in constant battle with them, as a Jedi.

 

I'd say it's better to be in consonant battle with your emotions than a constant battle with everyone around you.

[VanguardXL]

The Sith can be perceived as "evil" to anyone outside of the Sith themselves due to the nature of their philosophy. Being Sith in and off itself is not evil, but their subscription to personal advancement through embrace of emotional power can lead them to darker aspects.

A culture formed around social Darwinism leads Sith to embrace the darker aspects of emotions out of pure survival. Survival of the fittest, might makes right, and whoever has the most power makes their own rules.

Fear, Rage, Hatred all give more immediate bang for your buck power-wise than slow-burn emotions like Love and Joy. Thus the Sith in charge are almost invariable psychopathic, having been more powerful, quicker than their brethren that took a more emotionally stable path.

 

Can there be Good Sith? Certainly. Will they survive long if it's made known to other Sith (considering masking one's emotions is a sign of duplicity among a group that can sense emotions)? Not at all.

[Force_Predator]

Well I think sides are pretty cut and dry In star wars, Sith and the Empire embody war, and im not good with references but I know that was said by a sith. they use torture tactics and relish in suffering, Jedi don't. so unless alien discrimination and unnecessary cruelty are the definition of "the good side" I cannot really see it playing out any other way. The Jedi, arent perfect, but its a hell of alot better than the latter IMO

[Meharial]

Well I think sides are pretty cut and dry In star wars, Sith and the Empire embody war, and im not good with references but I know that was said by a sith. they use torture tactics and relish in suffering, Jedi don't. so unless alien discrimination and unnecessary cruelty are the definition of "the good side" I cannot really see it playing out any other way. The Jedi, arent perfect, but its a hell of alot better than the latter IMO

 

While cruelty is a no-go, Jedi Consular does run into the issue where only "civilised" aliens are ok. Your Trandoshan buddy is so attached to you because You and Master Yuon were the only non-hostile Jedi and the make up of the Neotikon Council and current Council would barely pass a Bechdel test for non-humans if it does.

[Dpeacoc]

the fact of the matter is the sith embrace a different lifestyle that most people cant understand. Besides the most powerful person in the star wars books was the guy who mastered the darkside as well as the lightside.

He was sith and jedi, embraced parts of both codes to do what he thought was right. Would you call him evil for finding power through sith ways.

[Dpeacoc]

Obsessive passion isn't love.

 

 

"Unlike the Jedi, who were famous for using the light side of the Force, darksiders drew power from raw emotions like anger, rage, hatred, fear, aggression, and passion."

 

How can any of those things be considered good? Especially when their passions the only possibly redeeming feature are usually power over others. Sith are Darksiders... I think it's a great disservice TOR did to allow them to be "light" attuned when the skills still involve lightning(negative energy), choking the life out of people, rage, viciousness and anger all around.

 

Even good people use rage and anger. the emotions arent bad. its all about how the channel them

[OldVengeance]

the fact of the matter is the sith embrace a different lifestyle that most people cant understand. Besides the most powerful person in the star wars books was the guy who mastered the darkside as well as the lightside.

He was sith and jedi, embraced parts of both codes to do what he thought was right. Would you call him evil for finding power through sith ways.

 

Since the Sith ways are evil, then yes. Are you referring to Revan? If so He was just a Jedi who fell to the darkside. He didn't "master both sides of the force." You can't exactly do that. The very first lines of both codes are diametrically opposed. And he was pretty evil while he was being Dark Lord of the Sith. Just because he didn't want to destroy everything in his path doesn't make him not evil.

[imraziel]

Sith are evil because those who do evil practices succeed more than those who simply work hard; since Sith don't punish those actions they naturally become accepted. Weak Sith are killed for their failures.

 

The Jedi are evil because they are killers who bully countries, governments, and planets into co-operating with the republic. The Jedi are raised to fight emotions... In modern society these are called sociopaths. Regardless of the reason they kill, and very often since there missions are often dangerous and political. Those who do not succeed or quit are basically used as slave farmers because they fear exjedi would become sith. Not to mention they hunted and wiped out an entire species just because a handful were crazy sith lords. Just like vader, the Jedi killed all women, children, and innocent commoners.

 

Both are such opposites that they are inherently evil. I actually hope that the chosen one proficy is made by either Revan himself or his disciples. Both shun balance, both feel that their side is the only true one and the others should be killed.

[TheGreatMon]

I don't know if evil is the right word. They aren't good, that's for sure, but I don't think they are necessarily evil. Rather, a better description is "Selfish". To be Sith is to try and perfect one's self at the expense of everything and everyone else. NOTHING matters to a Sith in comparison to his own personal power, power being perhaps defined differently by different sith, some seeking political power, to control and rule over others, and some seeking personal power, strength and ability to fight people and come out on top.

 

I suppose if you want a good comparison in the real world, the Sith are objectivists (Don't get me started on how idiotic that self-descriptor is...)

 

Very frequently this coincides with evil, but it isn't NECESSARILY true. You can be a sith and not do harm. It just turns out that following the sith way, harm isn't dissuaded and in a lot of cases is very beneficial, if not essential.

[JackMcBlaster]

it really depends on who you define as the sith.

the sith were really a species on korriban minding their own buisness until one day, some dudes come out of a shuttle and give such an emense display of power that the sith became totally submisive. did they want to become power-hungry monsters thanks to these few rotten eggs? probably not.

 

Now from the imperial trooper's perspective:

he or she could be at home on corellia watching the huttball finals, but instead they are marching around gloomy starships and invading innocent worlds, hated by everyone, being torn appart by the republic's soldiers.

 

And if we go deeper into the future, we come upon the stormtrooper. they have to walk around the death star, torture people, invade peoples homes. all for a sick twisted weirdo. they could be home on alderaan, drinking a smoothie and playing with their family, but they are on the death star, standing in uncomfortable armor, watching everything they know explode and not be able to say to a fellow mourner, "Leia, i feel your pain. i'm alderaanian too."

 

So really it depends who you take for the "sith". the real evil ones are the bad eggs like malak, revan, malgus, and palpatine.

[falom]

To me, embracing your emotions/passions in all of one's dealings, while not necessarily evil in itself, can more easily lead to evil acts. The OP mentioned love between a mother and child is good, but that same love can most certainly lead the mother to do evil things to other people. This is seen in the fall of Anakin Skywalker, when his love for Amadala led him to do many evil acts in what he thinks is protecting her. The point here, is that while passions/emotions and such that are linked to the dark side is not necessarily evil in itself, but since humans (or in star wars, sentient beings?) are not perfect, following whats "in our hearts" will likely lead us to do evil acts. The Jedi, on the other hand, recognizes this and denies themselves from this so that they can make moral judgments without emotions clouding their minds.

 

While I do agree that some actions of Jedi is not purely good, and the sith not purely evil, I think the grand idea behind these organizations will lead one side to be more evil and good.

[NotSevv]

So there was no way I could read all 41 pages of bickering, after like page 12 of mainly 2 people going "nu uh" and "ya huh" I said screw it.

 

I read alot about people debating that there would only be one of each class. My stance is not so much about sith, but jedi being "good". While watching the timeline video of the great hyperspace war which is 1347 BTC you forget that the Jedi go an commit genocide on an entire civilization ultimately leading to the events of this game. The empire did launch the strike and was defeated horribly yet you forget the whole defenseless Sith empire being slaughtered by the Jedi's and Republic, because of a senator not being pleased with his victory.

 

 

The "Mask of the Sith" was mentioned somewhere not sure if it was ever addressed but you would be wrong:

 

 

Conversation you are thinking of starts at 8mins, "Agent of the Dark Side" no dispute on sith, mind you that you were suppose to kill Jaesa but you showed mercy, and you're granted a promotion in the sith.

 

In terms of other light sided sith:

 

 

Turning from the empire is not turning from the Sith Code.

[Rosehip]

3. As Yoda himself stated in the novel-version of Revenge of the Sith, the Jedi's downfall came about because they stayed true to their old ways, while the Sith embraced change and adapted to a growing universe, taking on new ways and adapting to be as versatile as possible.

I'm not sure how I see it all, jedi vs sith, but I strongly believe in:

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives.

It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." - Charles Darwin

 

I see passion as 2-sided, like a coin. It can be good or bad. It can fill people with joy or it can fill people with madness.