Culdor Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I think overall it is hard to determine what exactly needs fixing until Bioware bothers to provide us with a combat log. That said the issue I have with sage/sorc and merc/commando is that they are one button wonders. This game has so many abilities per class, too many in my opinion, yet here you have a spec for each of these classes that largely uses one ability and are far more effective then other classes with more complex play styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaidoma Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I have fought tons of classes in PvP....usually as a Sorc or BH. I don't think the classes need to be nerfed...BUT the PvP heals need to be nerfed. They do need to make a system where if a person gets healed, they cant take another heal for 30 sec. Spam healing in PvP is unfair. I totally support spam healing in PvE...sometimes u need it to beat a hard boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskynn Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 As opposed to the "I'm terrible sorc/sage should be nerfed" bandwagon? You don't even understand the class, if you did you would realise you can only be a master of healing or dos, or average at both. The only reason a hybrid spec could possibly have an advantage over any other classes is what gear they are using. If you can point by point show me how the class is op then let's hear it. All I have seen so far is people complaining that a utility based class that can heal and do damage does exactly what it's supposed to. Elaborate with evidence that you understand class mechanics. "but you are a sorc/sage" - yes so I at least I know the class, you obviously don't. too many slows, snares, cc. You're melee and get near them? oh look at that you get knocked back and snared. And guess what they do when that happens? pop the bubble and force lightning/throw rocks. If you survive long enough to get near them they just knock you back again. rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) too many slows, snares, cc. You're melee and get near them? oh look at that you get knocked back and snared. And guess what they do when that happens? pop the bubble and force lightning/throw rocks. If you survive long enough to get near them they just knock you back again. rinse and repeat. nerp. you know, I'm a battlemaster sorcerer, I average 350k-400k a game, but damn do I wish I could have all this CC that people think we have. Edited February 7, 2012 by TetraCleric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jizerai Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'm washing my hands of this thread. Misleading posts, incorrect statistics, "factual" anecdotal evidence and a whole lot of "scissors needs nerf, paper needs buff, rock is fine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 too many slows, snares, cc. You're melee and get near them? oh look at that you get knocked back and snared. And guess what they do when that happens? pop the bubble and force lightning/throw rocks. If you survive long enough to get near them they just knock you back again. rinse and repeat. So it took you 20 seconds to get back to the sage? in 20 seconds 1v1 I would hope you would be dead. Also we have no slows, unless you mean our snare, but then it is redundant so I am not sure what you are speaking us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I have fought tons of classes in PvP....usually as a Sorc or BH. I don't think the classes need to be nerfed...BUT the PvP heals need to be nerfed. They do need to make a system where if a person gets healed, they cant take another heal for 30 sec. Spam healing in PvP is unfair. I totally support spam healing in PvE...sometimes u need it to beat a hard boss. Then healing in PVP would not work, and all healers would be gone. Next you will want all protection gone so it is nothing but twitch based who can hit their button first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithgrizley Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'm washing my hands of this thread. Misleading posts, incorrect statistics, "factual" anecdotal evidence and a whole lot of "scissors needs nerf, paper needs buff, rock is fine". So what exactly is Sorcs scissors hmm? We covered the whole, interrupts are what win fights against Sorcs. Interrupts are melee range. Sorcs are bad if they're caught in melee for more than a couple seconds at a time. So the only way you lose is if you get interrupted, the only way you get interrupted is if you're bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurleyKilla Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 double post because the guy seems to be ignoring me.. Original link http://i.imgur.com/s090x.jpg Originally Posted by Cruxe 4 deaths means the other team barely took notice of him. Not hard to rack up 300k heals if you're left alone. me: hahaha do you really believe that? Or is it because I can bubble? Or force speed has a wonderfully short cooldown? Or the deadly combination of both? If only it showed how much damage I took.... they noticed me plenty.... Part of what makes them overpowered is the abilities they have at there disposal. Especially on that map, all I need to do is sprint away past my buddies... you would have to be a fool to keep chasing me. Seriously... they barely noticed me? What am I a ninja? When I get home tonight ill post one with 0 deaths.... Then I must be invisible man status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 So what exactly is Sorcs scissors hmm? We covered the whole, interrupts are what win fights against Sorcs. Interrupts are melee range. Sorcs are bad if they're caught in melee for more than a couple seconds at a time. So the only way you lose is if you get interrupted, the only way you get interrupted is if you're bad. Interupts are not only melee range.. Any class 1v1 can kill a sorc. Nice fallacy at the end.. We have a knockback on a 20second cooldown.. Any melee class can get back to us in a lot less then 20 seconds especially since melee range is 4 meters, and our knockback only knocks you back 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vsalcedo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) probably this... i truly feel that no-cd fore lightning/rock throw is a little ridiculous... since it slows you and has a 30 yd range, so you just chain cast it... That's really my only problem... It's pretty hard to do anything with 4 sages throwing rocks at your face or pushing you away as soon as you charge into them, then slowing you again so you can't get back after their 2sec root is up... I agree but they only need to be slightly touched. Lightning doesn't slow you, if your a sith warrior you have teh tools to be on that sorcs/consulars face ALL the time! If your a commando you have the tools to pewpew them form far and heal yourself. And is a team game is not a 1 v 1 so if you have 4 sages in a team is not our fault that in number 4 sages are OP. NOW if you think in terms of 1 v 1 I have had sith warriors hand my *** to me all I do on my SI is heal run away slow try to kill you but you never will die. The only tree sorc that really slows you down is the3 lightning tree which has the lock you down after the punt and the slows on a 2 second cd BUT it doesn't even last that long! By the time the slows off your damn charge is back up. So honestly it is a L2Play issue is a different game IS NOT WoW or guildwars or whatever the issue is IS different mechanics ALL of you need to learn to use rather then ***** and moan about class a or b beating you. Edited February 7, 2012 by vsalcedo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 double post because the guy seems to be ignoring me.. Original link http://i.imgur.com/s090x.jpg Originally Posted by Cruxe 4 deaths means the other team barely took notice of him. Not hard to rack up 300k heals if you're left alone. me: hahaha do you really believe that? Or is it because I can bubble? Or force speed has a wonderfully short cooldown? Or the deadly combination of both? If only it showed how much damage I took.... they noticed me plenty.... Part of what makes them overpowered is the abilities they have at there disposal. Especially on that map, all I need to do is sprint away past my buddies... you would have to be a fool to keep chasing me. Seriously... they barely noticed me? What am I a ninja? When I get home tonight ill post one with 0 deaths.... Then I must be invisible man status force speed is 2 seconds of speed. Not enough to get away far enough from a decent player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithgrizley Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 So it took you 20 seconds to get back to the sage? in 20 seconds 1v1 I would hope you would be dead. Also we have no slows, unless you mean our snare, but then it is redundant so I am not sure what you are speaking us. Snare wears off, whirlwild, or stun, force speed, running back with a 30% slow on when you're moving at all... 20 seconds to get back may be a bit long but 10 is probably a bit optimistic. Plus once he's closed again you have a bubble that will negate at least 3-5 seconds of attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Lightning doesn't slow you, if your a sith warrior you have teh tools to be on that sorcs/consulars face ALL the time! If your a commando you have the tools to pewpew them form far and heal yourself. And is a team game is not a 1 v 1 so if you have 4 sages in a team is not our fault that in number 4 sages are OP. NOW if you think in terms of 1 v 1 I have had sith warriors hand my *** to me all I do on my SI is heal run away slow try to kill you but you never will die. Lets not spout misinformation in defense of a Sorcerer. Force Lightning applies a 50% slow for the duration of the cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithgrizley Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Interupts are not only melee range.. Any class 1v1 can kill a sorc. Nice fallacy at the end.. We have a knockback on a 20second cooldown.. Any melee class can get back to us in a lot less then 20 seconds especially since melee range is 4 meters, and our knockback only knocks you back 8. Ok, name all the ranged interrupts with a cooldown of less than a minute. Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vsalcedo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Lets not spout misinformation in defense of a Sorcerer. Force Lightning applies a 50% slow for the duration of the cast. Barely noticeable then because sith warriors are always on my *** bud. You also have other team player MEANT TO HELP YOU! Guys want a 1 v 1 game go play street fighter online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurleyKilla Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 force speed is 2 seconds of speed. Not enough to get away far enough from a decent player. Under what circumstance? That's plenty of time for me to get across a bridge in Voidstar to my backup. Or get far enough away to heal myself to full. Yea I will get chased down at some point if I just ran in a straight line... off to nowhere... A smart player would immediately ignore me as a lost cause once I sprinted to my allies, because he has no hope in hell of killing me. Plus I can use my instant cast heal/Hot while running full speed the other away... throw up a bubble drop a faster big heal because conveyance will proc. If you don't feel like your sage is overpowered you are doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Ok, name all the ranged interrupts with a cooldown of less than a minute. Go. force leap and the equiv which also closes gaps. mind snap and the equiv distraction Thant is just general skills, I am not sure about specialized from ACs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Barely noticeable then because sith warriors are always on my *** bud. You also have other team player MEANT TO HELP YOU! Guys want a 1 v 1 game go play street fighter online. Oh I know they are, you see I play a Sorcerer. I'm just saying don't say lightning doesn't have a slow, when it clearly does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Under what circumstance? That's plenty of time for me to get across a bridge in Voidstar to my backup. Or get far enough away to heal myself to full. Yea I will get chased down at some point if I just ran in a straight line... off to nowhere... A smart player would immediately ignore me as a lost cause once I sprinted to my allies, because he has no hope in hell of killing me. Plus I can use my instant cast heal/Hot while running full speed the other away... throw up a bubble drop a faster big heal because conveyance will proc. If you don't feel like your sage is overpowered you are doing it wrong. 2 seconds of force speed is a max of 30 meters, you are still in force leap range or any caster/shootting range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGolubets Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Barely noticeable then because sith warriors are always on my *** bud. You also have other team player MEANT TO HELP YOU! Guys want a 1 v 1 game go play street fighter online. Yea yea, when operatives were saying this.. you know what happened eventually. Edited February 7, 2012 by DGolubets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vsalcedo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Ok, name all the ranged interrupts with a cooldown of less than a minute. Go. Whats your point lol what are we supposed to interrupt on you meele if all your attacks are none castable including force choke..........electrocute is a 2 minute. whirlwind is a 1 minute cd unless yer under the madness tree which stuns you when yer out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 2 seconds of force speed is a max of 30 meters, you are still in force leap range or any caster/shootting range. You can also be rooted/stunned during the sprint, so maybe time your stuns better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yea yea, when operatives were saying this.. you know what happend eventually. Except ops had insane burst, still do, compared to us.. sure give our dps some burst, then ill be happy to have to manage force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vsalcedo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You can also be rooted/stunned during the sprint, so maybe time your stuns better. SO change force leap to not be slowed or rooted you meele ***** too much IN ANY MMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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