Sage/Sorc needs a nerf!!

[Sirchuck]

You say they need to be looked at because of total damage, however again, they have little to no way to survive one on one, only in group combat.

 

Where did I say they need to be looked only due to total damage? I said they have a few too many tools to work with. Damage is only one component. They have excellent utility and solid survivability in conjunction with nice damage.

 

 

The devs can continue to turn a blind eye to this but the class population imbalance will only get worse. People are already calling this game Sorc Wars.

 

Anyway, I'm done for tonight. I gotta get back to leveling my sorc.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Sirchuck

[Lormif]

Where did I say they need to be looked only due to total damage? I said they have a few too many tools to work with. Damage is only one component. They have excellent utility and solid survivability in conjunction with nice damage.

 

 

The devs can continue to turn a blind eye to this but the class population imbalance will only get worse. People are already calling this game Sorc Wars.

 

What do you consider nice damage? Max 3.5k crit is not nice damage. The only time they get nice damage is if they are in group combat and totally ignored, which everyone gets good damage in that situation..

[Ryat]

Sorc

 

-Light Armor

-Bubble that ONLY heals for around 3k

-Easy to snare by non-force classes

 

 

 

=

 

 

Gonna get wrecked by Melee classes.

 

 

 

Stop whining OP, you're obviously not playing the right game.

I agree 100%. 1v1 my Sentinel usually will win a battle with a Sorcerer. Do a 2v1 and I will lose. Hard. 2v1 with any other class and I will do good damage to if not kill at least one. But not with Sorcerers. And often there are three or four Sorcerers on a team in PvP.

[Karenai]

The only real problem with Sorc/Sages is, that there are specs which cannot go OOM.

Other classes can burst better then us. Other classes have more cc then us. Other classes have way bigger crits then us.

But we do not go oom.

Never.

Ever.

We cast, and cast, and cast, and cast, and cast.

There is no such thing as a filler cast. Our filler casts do good damage.

 

The only time I use my hp to mana spell, is when I am defending a node and am bored, so I push for that 5k heal with adrenal and trinkets.

 

That is the main reason why our damage/heal stats are massive, not because of our insane 3,5k crits with our best 3sec cast nuke. Or even bigger 4,2k heal crits with our 3sec heal.

 

There is less AoE going around then you think. 90% of the time I nuke single targets, if 1 or 2 other targets get in the way of my AoE that's nice, but not realy the point.

450k damage/150k heal is the norm right now for me.

650k damage/200k heal if imps huddle.

That's solo random without guard or heal.

 

I know tactics troopers who make 400k damage/100k guard, easy. I think the difference is just right for a pure ranged dps and a pvp tank.

 

So, sorcs/sages are not op, other people are just lazy.

[Lormif]

The only real problem with Sorc/Sages is, that there are specs which cannot go OOM.

Other classes can burst better then us. Other classes have more cc then us. Other classes have way bigger crits then us.

But we do not go oom.

Never.

Ever.

We cast, and cast, and cast, and cast, and cast.

There is no such thing as a filler cast. Our filler casts do good damage.

 

The only time I use my hp to mana spell, is when I am defending a node and am bored, so I push for that 5k heal with adrenal and trinkets.

 

That is the main reason why our damage/heal stats are massive, not because of our insane 3,5k crits with our best 3sec cast nuke. Or even bigger 4,2k heal crits with our 3sec heal.

 

There is less AoE going around then you think. 90% of the time I nuke single targets, if 1 or 2 other targets get in the way of my AoE that's nice, but not realy the point.

450k damage/150k heal is the norm right now for me.

650k damage/200k heal if imps huddle.

That's solo random without guard or heal.

 

I know tactics troopers who make 400k damage/100k guard, easy. I think the difference is just right for a pure ranged dps and a pvp tank.

 

So, sorcs/sages are not op, other people are just lazy.

 

 

how are you getting those numbers single target? you must be a maxed out bm or something....

[Elivapor]

Coz they outgear you. If you can't beat a sage or a sorc in similar gear then you need to learn to. It's not difficult, and if you need to come to the forums and ask for a class nerf then you are more than likely lacking in gear, skill or experience or all three .

 

This.

[EternalFinality]

This.

 

What about it. Sorcs are not the strongest class 1v1. They are the strongest class in groups.

 

Guess which happens more often in PvP in TOR!

[Acyu]

.

450k damage/150k heal is the norm right now for me.

650k damage/200k heal if imps huddle.

 

 

Please post 3 screenshots of 450K/150K (should be easy, it's the "norm" for you) and just 1 screenshot of 650K/200K.

 

Make sure to click off your shockwater debuff.

 

And I will laugh if they're all voidstars.

[Lormif]

What about it. Sorcs are not the strongest class 1v1. They are the strongest class in groups.

 

Guess which happens more often in PvP in TOR!

 

the group turns and kills the sorc in 2 seconds.. The ops or any number of classes turn and owns them..

 

Again, sorcs/sages only do well if no one messes with them.

 

Do you let a healer live? Probably since I have been in lots of WZs where the healer is ignored for some reason, but if you do, you shouldnt.. If you dont want the Sorc to do lots of damage then treat him like a healer..

[Karenai]

how are you getting those numbers single target? you must be a maxed out bm or something....

 

Not at all, I just got my first 2 BM items from bags.

 

Just never stop casting. Never, ever stop doing things.

 

Way to often, while I try to plant a bomb, I see 2-4 guys standing there looking at me, doing NOTHING. That's the reason why their numbers are low. You can run to the spawn and CC/AoE/knockbak/slow do ANYTHING. At least REBUFF!

 

Every GCD you do nothing is a wasted gcd.

[EternalFinality]

the group turns and kills the sorc in 2 seconds.. The ops or any number of classes turn and owns them..

 

Again, sorcs/sages only do well if no one messes with them.

 

Do you let a healer live? Probably since I have been in lots of WZs where the healer is ignored for some reason, but if you do, you shouldnt.. If you dont want the Sorc to do lots of damage then treat him like a healer..

 

Sorcs are the strongest character at escaping multiple people attacking them. Exploding bubble, AOE KNOCKBACK ROOT, Instant cast CC, Force Speed.

 

You think you've clever with the "Just have everyone attack them!" but that's not the solution.

 

Besides, what is everyone else on his team doing while everyone futilely tries to kill the Sorc? Oh right, pwning you.

 

EVERY CLASS DOES WELL IF NO ONE MESSES WITH THEM.

[Lormif]

Not at all, I just got my first 2 BM items from bags.

 

Just never stop casting. Never, ever stop doing things.

 

Way to often, while I try to plant a bomb, I see 2-4 guys standing there looking at me, doing NOTHING. That's the reason why their numbers are low. You can run to the spawn and CC/AoE/knockbak/slow do ANYTHING. At least REBUFF!

 

Every GCD you do nothing is a wasted gcd.

 

I always dot/cast AOE, everything... If I am not AOEing down groups though I never break 300k.

[Acyu]

the group turns and kills the sorc in 2 seconds.. The ops or any number of classes turn and owns them..

 

Again, sorcs/sages only do well if no one messes with them.

 

Do you let a healer live? Probably since I have been in lots of WZs where the healer is ignored for some reason, but if you do, you shouldnt.. If you dont want the Sorc to do lots of damage then treat him like a healer..

 

^ seriously.

 

I heal as a sorcerer. If I am ignored and get free cast most of the time, I walk away with ~600K healing in huttball and ~800K in voidstar.

 

If i get harassed, even by one marauder, my healing cuts from 1/3 to 1/2.

 

If i get focused every time and I have to spend my time LoS'ing and healing myself, the healing gets cut even more.

[Xehoz]

And why are dps sorc's main heal larger than every other dps classes main heal.

(5k+ compared to 3.5k crit).

 

You are mistaken. The Sorc healer (31p) is the only healer can't pop the 5k healing medal that easily. In order to make sure I get it, have to to use an adrenal/relic or expertise buff.

 

Wearing Full champion + 5 Battlemaster + 1 Rakata Offhand.

 

If Dark Infusion regularly (PvE) heals for max (non crit) 3.1k, how much is 70% of 3.1k and how much will it crit with, say, 80% surge?. Yeah. Not 5k. Close, with that kind of gear. But I rarely hit 5k in normal warzone play.

[EternalFinality]

^ seriously.

 

I heal as a sorcerer. If I am ignored and get free cast most of the time, I walk away with ~600K healing in huttball and ~800K in voidstar.

 

If i get harassed, even by one marauder, my healing cuts from 1/3 to 1/2.

 

If i get focused every time and I have to spend my time LoS'ing and healing myself, the healing gets cut even more.

 

Damn, having a whole person fruitlessly trying to kill you only lowers your output by 50%.

 

They're so imbalanced they don't even realize it.

[Xehoz]

Do you let a healer live? Probably since I have been in lots of WZs where the healer is ignored for some reason, but if you do, you shouldnt.. If you dont want the Sorc to do lots of damage then treat him like a healer..

 

Yeap. A healer without a tank will die if properly focused or chainstunned. Way to easily, actually. Mercs/Troopers might be thougher due to the heavy armor, but we'll eventually fall. The max we can do is waste your time chasing and hitting us, which we effectively do a lot of the times.

[Acyu]

Damn, having a whole person fruitlessly trying to kill you only lowers your output by 50%.

 

They're so imbalanced they don't even realize it.

 

you do realize when there is a "whole person" focusing me, I am healing myself and not my teammates right? This means the majority would that 50% output would be on myself and not my teammates.

 

Trading 1 for 1, especially for a healer, seems like a pretty damn good deal. Note that there is no way I can kill a good marauder without support from my teammates. It's pretty much like an endless ************ if I can abuse the terrain to LoS and CC.

 

Unless you're one of those trolls that think a DPS should always be able to kill a healer 1v1. Then I understand.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Acyu

[Thisisxonaz]

There's no warzone they don't excel in, and there's no 1v1 fight they can't win. ![/color]

 

That made me laugh.

 

Unless they are better geared than me I have no trouble fighting them 1v1. Disrupt big heals, and your dps should well out weigh theirs and their heals.

 

I just don't get the problem, and I play a marauder so it isn't like I'm playing an OP class.

[EternalFinality]

you do realize when there is a "whole person" focusing me, I am healing myself and not my teammates right? This means the majority would that 50% output would be on myself and not my teammates.

 

Trading 1 for 1, especially for a healer, seems like a pretty damn good deal. Note that there is no way I can kill a good marauder without support from my teammates. It's pretty much like an endless ************ if I can abuse the terrain to LoS and CC.

 

Unless you're one of those trolls that think a DPS should always be able to kill a healer 1v1. Then I understand.

 

Of course dps should be able to kill a healer 1v1 - or should eventually.

 

And yet, that one person on you still can't kill you. Geared Sorcs can live eternally, and I am a geared Sentinel. I tested it one time by staying on a Battlemaster healer Sorc. I literally chased him nonstop around Alderan for 2+ minutes with him using all his tricks to get distance and keep healing himself. He could not be killed. Eventually his team noticed our endless dance and took me out.

 

Sorcs don't run out of Force. What the hell kind of healer class doesn't run out of mana!?

Edited February 7, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Xehoz]

you do realize when there is a "whole person" focusing me, I am healing myself and not my teammates right? This means the majority would that 50% output would be on myself and not my teammates.

 

Trading 1 for 1, especially for a healer, seems like a pretty damn good deal. Note that there is no way I can kill a good marauder without support from my teammates. It's pretty much like an endless ************ if I can abuse the terrain to LoS and CC.

 

Unless you're one of those trolls that think a DPS should always be able to kill a healer 1v1. Then I understand.

 

They should be able to kill a healer after 30s/60s, simply because it will be very hard for healers to kill dpsers and that healers will eventually run out of force/heat/energy. Maurauders are kinda OP 1v1 vs a healer with the 30% + 20% healing debuff. The big picture is too large for Bioware.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Xehoz

[Xehoz]

Of course dps should be able to kill a healer 1v1 - or should eventually.

 

And yet, that one person on you still can't kill you. Geared Sorcs can live eternally, and I am a geared Sentinel. I tested it one time by staying on a Battlemaster healer Sorc. I literally chased him nonstop around Alderan for 2+ minutes with him using all his tricks to get distance and keep healing himself. He could not be killed. Eventually his team noticed our endless dance and took me out.

 

Sorcs don't run out of Force. What the hell kind of healer class doesn't run out of mana!?

 

The key are the interrupts / stuns. 1v1 in that kind of terrain is different from a 1v1 duel, though. If I'm defending a left/right tower alone, I'll waste the dpser time chasing me around, waiting (hopefully) for team mates. I am not going to kill him with 31p in healing 9 out of 10 times.

[runiez]

problem?

 

MARAUDERS ARE OP!!!!

 

 

 

see what i did there?

 

 

L2P man.

 

 

I sat here bored out of my face. Read 1 zzzzz reply after another,from random clueless whiner nr xxx.

 

Then this little reply came wich made me smile....

 

its all about l2p:)

Edited February 7, 2012 by runiez

[Acyu]

Of course dps should be able to kill a healer 1v1 - or should eventually.

 

And yet, that one person on you still can't kill you. Geared Sorcs can live eternally, and I am a geared Sentinel. I tested it one time by staying on a Battlemaster healer Sorc. I literally chased him nonstop around Alderan for 2+ minutes with him using all his tricks to get distance and keep healing himself. He could not be killed. Eventually his team noticed our endless dance and took me out.

 

Sorcs don't run out of Force. What the hell kind of healer class doesn't run out of mana!?

 

Obviously completely bypassed the part about "if I can abuse the terrain to LoS and CC." If it's out in the open and I don't do anything other than "heal." I die to a good marauder rather quickly.

 

But no smart healer is going to let you just beat on them without doing anything other than healing. Just like the example you gave. The BM sorcerer pulled everything out of his hat to keep his distance to keep himself alive. That's what good healers do, and you got outplayed.

 

Sorcerers don't "not" run out of force. Of course they run out of force. They don't have good force regeneration by default, but they do have mechanics which allows them to recover force. Like all other resource recovering skills, it takes a GCD and sometimes cost HP.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think a healer should just have that 600 force and be completely defenseless after those 600 force run out. I'm not sure which MMO you previously played where healers did not have resource recovering potions and/or abilities.

[EternalFinality]

The key are the interrupts / stuns. 1v1 in that kind of terrain is different from a 1v1 duel, though. If I'm defending a left/right tower alone, I'll waste the dpser time chasing me around, waiting (hopefully) for team mates. I am not going to kill him with 31p in healing 9 out of 10 times.

 

Don't give me that crap. I used EVERY tool at my disposal and every interrupt I could.

 

The Sorc also used every CC and escape tool at his disposal. You can't stop them.

[EternalFinality]

Obviously completely bypassed the part about "if I can abuse the terrain to LoS and CC." If it's out in the open and I don't do anything other than "heal." I die to a good marauder rather quickly.

 

But no smart healer is going to let you just beat on them without doing anything other than healing. Just like the example you gave. The BM sorcerer pulled everything out of his hat to keep his distance to keep himself alive. That's what good healers do, and you got outplayed.

 

Sorcerers don't "not" run out of force. Of course they run out of force. They don't have good force regeneration by default, but they do have mechanics which allows them to recover force. Like all other resource recovering skills, it takes a GCD and sometimes cost HP.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think a healer should just have that 600 force and be completely defenseless after those 600 force run out. I'm not sure which MMO you previously played where healers did not have resource recovering potions and/or abilities.

 

Potions have a cooldown. Abilities that recovered significant amounts of mana in other MMOs typically have long cooldowns.

 

Not something that's spammable. Again, they're so overpowered they can't even see a problem with stuff like this and just assume that's the way it is for everyone.

Edited February 7, 2012 by EternalFinality