jizerai Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Ok, let me give you a little math to show why that shield is incredible. A Merc can get 30% crit in PvP gear. A normal TM will be 1200-1400 maybe. A crit will be 3kish. A TM costs 25 heat. A Merc loses 5 heat a second if they are under 40 heat. At 40 heat to 80 heat they lose 3 heat a second, 80-100 2 heat a second. So you have a 10 second old shield up (average case) and a Merc opens up on you. You are a complete tool and just stand there, possibly typing a post about TM on the forums. You have a 3k shield. TMs average damage counting crits is about 1700. 3 seconds later your shield has taken 3400 damage on average (still up) the merc is sitting at 45 heat. 4.5 seconds later your shield is gone and you've taken 1500 damage. Merc is at 61 heat. 6 seconds later you have taken 3200 damage Merc is at 82 heat. Merc now can't afford another TM and you've taken a grand total of 3200 damage. Your shield is back up in 4 seconds. You still haven't even touched an ability. Ok, so TM spam utterly fails. If the Merc uses a little better rotation like TM TM Unload, TM, TM you will take a bit more damage over 9 seconds, but you will still be alive to recast your shield. That 3k shield is a lot better than you think, especially considering the fact that you will never run out of force and the Merc overheats fairly quickly. Now the Merc will have procs to lose 8 heat on crits so he is probably 8 heat, maybe 16 if he is lucky less than the numbers given. Keep in mind, in that example you did nothing but sit there screaming like a little girl and waiting for your shield to come back. Thow in some CC or healing or damage and you can see where things get bad for the merc pretty quickly. Except that Tracer Missile doesn't cost 25 heat, it costs 16 (because if you don't spec your main attack, you're a fool, my good sir). Also, in your scenario, every third attack will on average vent 8 heat, making you spend 56 heat in total (16+16+8+16). Not to mention that you also will vent heat regularly as well. Edit: Not to mention that you have an ability that reduces heat, on a 2min cooldown - but still. In a pinch, I suggest you use it. That's a lot less than 82, now isn't it? Your Tracer Missiles will also decrease damage taken by 2% (up to a total of 10%) for 15 seconds. Oh my, so long as you do damage, you only have a constant 10% damage reduction - along with your Heavy Armor? Oh, the humanity! Edited February 7, 2012 by jizerai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Nope. It doesn't change it at all. If you had JUST cast the shield as you see the first missile winding up then 10 seconds into the fight the Merc is still in heat trouble and you've still taken less than 3k damage. Without touching your keyboard. Except I would not have the shield to re pop for another 7-10 seconds, and you can still vent heat. So yes, it changes ALOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jizerai Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It's not just another cc, it's also a DoT that has a very high dpct. And I don't care if it's off topic, this thread is terrible anyways =p. True. But the damage part is pretty much halved, if you're using it every 9 seconds (the dps remains the same, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithgrizley Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 So wait, I start at t-10 where as you start at t.. If we shift it to where we both start at t I have taken alot more damage at the end, about the same as you if I was not standing there doing nothing. To address your "about the same damage" lie. Lets say you are a fairly bad Sorc who thinks just sitting there pressing the lightning button is the hottest thing ever. You're Palpatine and you take **** from nobody! You pop your totally balanced autocit and hit lightning! 3 seconds later you've dealt 3k damage, I'm assuming your gear is terrible or maybe you're wearing the slave girl outfit with no bracers or belt just to make things look more balanced. Oh you have 0 alacrity too. 6 seconds later you've done 6k damage. 9 seconds later you have a flacid little non-autocrit lightning that only does 2000. So at the 9 second mark, you've done 8k damage. Vs less than 4k. "About the same". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fomby Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I disagree with the principle of the OP. He assumes that this is a 1v1 kind of game. It is not. If your team focuses on the sage/sorc's they go down in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithgrizley Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Except I would not have the shield to re pop for another 7-10 seconds, and you can still vent heat. So yes, it changes ALOT. Oh goody! So if you're an idiot who runs around with shields down and the Merc pops a 2 minute cooldown then it's possible that he can kill you? Totally balanced. Clearly. In fact maybe they should nerf the mercs so you never have to worry about not autowinning by tooling around as a sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 To address your "about the same damage" lie. Lets say you are a fairly bad Sorc who thinks just sitting there pressing the lightning button is the hottest thing ever. You're Palpatine and you take **** from nobody! You pop your totally balanced autocit and hit lightning! 3 seconds later you've dealt 3k damage, I'm assuming your gear is terrible or maybe you're wearing the slave girl outfit with no bracers or belt just to make things look more balanced. Oh you have 0 alacrity too. 6 seconds later you've done 6k damage. 9 seconds later you have a flacid little non-autocrit lightning that only does 2000. So at the 9 second mark, you've done 8k damage. Vs less than 4k. "About the same". Too bad if he has no gear, he probably doesn't have 30-40% crit, meaning that the 60% crit increase from Recklesness doesn't actually give him autocrit. Learning class mechanics one post at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 To address your "about the same damage" lie. Lets say you are a fairly bad Sorc who thinks just sitting there pressing the lightning button is the hottest thing ever. You're Palpatine and you take **** from nobody! You pop your totally balanced autocit and hit lightning! 3 seconds later you've dealt 3k damage, I'm assuming your gear is terrible or maybe you're wearing the slave girl outfit with no bracers or belt just to make things look more balanced. Oh you have 0 alacrity too. 6 seconds later you've done 6k damage. 9 seconds later you have a flacid little non-autocrit lightning that only does 2000. So at the 9 second mark, you've done 8k damage. Vs less than 4k. "About the same". ok, so now we are talking about an overgeared sorc vs an undergeared merc.... I got to love how this situation gets more and more specific to fit the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithgrizley Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Too bad if he has no gear, he probably doesn't have 30-40% crit, meaning that the 60% crit increase from Recklesness doesn't actually give him autocrit. Learning class mechanics one post at a time. Assuming 0 crit from base, or gear, or buffs, or talents... There is a 6% chance that he doesn't crit. Of course if he has 0 crit on his gear and isn't a total derp he has base what 5% plus his 10% from talents + 60% giving a 1.5% not to crit. That of course is ignoring all the other junk and assuming he only uses lightning because he likes the way it looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jizerai Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 So.. you're just ignoring that sithgrizley made stuff up to begin with to actually make his Merc vs Sorc-argument? I love these forums. They're a constant source of amusement, degradation and rage. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithgrizley Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 ok, so now we are talking about an overgeared sorc vs an undergeared merc.... I got to love how this situation gets more and more specific to fit the argument. Right, because critting for 1k a tick takes massive gear levels... right? Clearly the problem is there isn't enough lightning resist on the Mercs gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Assuming 0 crit from base, or gear, or buffs, or talents... There is a 6% chance that he doesn't crit. Of course if he has 0 crit on his gear and isn't a total derp he has base what 5% plus his 10% from talents + 60% giving a 1.5% not to crit. That of course is ignoring all the other junk and assuming he only uses lightning because he likes the way it looks. I don't think that's how math works. Recklessness gives you 60% crit chance. If you have 0 crit, that puts you at 60% crit, meaning you have 40% chance not to crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jizerai Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Assuming 0 crit from base, or gear, or buffs, or talents... There is a 6% chance that he doesn't crit. Of course if he has 0 crit on his gear and isn't a total derp he has base what 5% plus his 10% from talents + 60% giving a 1.5% not to crit. That of course is ignoring all the other junk and assuming he only uses lightning because he likes the way it looks. What do you think the Sage/Sorcerer "auto-crit" does? Because let me tell you, it's 60% crit on two attacks. So unless you have 24% base crit, you're full of it. x% + 10% + 60% = 100% <-- what does that leave? 24% base crit. I can see why your Sorc is overpowered as hell with those kinds of stats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithgrizley Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I don't think that's how math works. Recklessness gives you 60% crit chance. If you have 0 crit, that puts you at 60% crit, meaning you have 40% chance not to crit. On a single cast, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 On a single cast, yes. *** are you talking about lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lormif Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Right, because critting for 1k a tick takes massive gear levels... right? Clearly the problem is there isn't enough lightning resist on the Mercs gear. It means massive gear disparity yes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jizerai Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 *** are you talking about lol I smell a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithgrizley Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What do you think the Sage/Sorcerer "auto-crit" does? Because let me tell you, it's 60% crit on two attacks. So unless you have 24% base crit, you're full of it. x% + 10% + 60% = 100% <-- what does that leave? 24% base crit. I can see why your Sorc is overpowered as hell with those kinds of stats! Alright, I figured I could leave it simple. 60% + 10% + base (5%?) = 75% Chance to not be a crit 100 - 75. 25% 25% ^3 = 1.5% With 0 crit gear. With 0 crit from Will. Now assuming you have 1200 Will and 0 crit. You gain 8.39% crit from that, bringing your chance not to crit on a single cast to 16.6%. 16.6^3 = ..4% not to crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaidarlol Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Assuming 0 crit from base, or gear, or buffs, or talents... There is a 6% chance that he doesn't crit. Of course if he has 0 crit on his gear and isn't a total derp he has base what 5% plus his 10% from talents + 60% giving a 1.5% not to crit. That of course is ignoring all the other junk and assuming he only uses lightning because he likes the way it looks. my mind is blown i had no idea 5%+10%+60% = 98.5% xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithgrizley Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Anyway. Lunchtime, here is the crit formula so you can figure out the odds of critting. Even with terrible gear you will get your 2 autocrits on 3 casts, likely on 2. Crit Chance % = 5 + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( PrimaryStat / max(Level,20) ) / 2.5 ) ) + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( CritRating / max(Level,20) ) / 0.45 ) ) Crit chance can also include a bonus from a secondary stat. Have a look at your damage or healing bonus on the character screen, if it includes a bonus from a secondary stat it will also have a small crit bonus from that stat calculated as + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( SecondaryStat / max(Level,20) ) / 2.5 ) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurleyKilla Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Can we call them OP if at LVL 26 I get over 300k in heals? Without even actually focusing on heals the whole time? http://i.imgur.com/s090x.jpg also 4 MVP votes... 18 kills and only 5 medals? owie my brain.. look at the guy just below me... 7 medals? 0 objective points? What the heck is even worth medals in this game... Edited February 7, 2012 by KurleyKilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaidarlol Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Anyway. Lunchtime, here is the crit formula so you can figure out the odds of critting. Even with terrible gear you will get your 2 autocrits on 3 casts, likely on 2. Crit Chance % = 5 + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( PrimaryStat / max(Level,20) ) / 2.5 ) ) + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( CritRating / max(Level,20) ) / 0.45 ) ) Crit chance can also include a bonus from a secondary stat. Have a look at your damage or healing bonus on the character screen, if it includes a bonus from a secondary stat it will also have a small crit bonus from that stat calculated as + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( SecondaryStat / max(Level,20) ) / 2.5 ) ) so what your saying is 1 tick of lightning has 98.5% chance to crit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetraCleric Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Anyway. Lunchtime, here is the crit formula so you can figure out the odds of critting. Even with terrible gear you will get your 2 autocrits on 3 casts, likely on 2. Crit Chance % = 5 + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( PrimaryStat / max(Level,20) ) / 2.5 ) ) + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( CritRating / max(Level,20) ) / 0.45 ) ) Crit chance can also include a bonus from a secondary stat. Have a look at your damage or healing bonus on the character screen, if it includes a bonus from a secondary stat it will also have a small crit bonus from that stat calculated as + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( SecondaryStat / max(Level,20) ) / 2.5 ) ) I dk where you're getting this from, but Crit Chance in the character tab already factors in primary/secondary stats. Furthermore, you taking the crit chance to a power of 3 doesn't equate to the correct crit chance. You still only have 75% chance to crit per tick of FL. Which means you have 25% chance not to crit. That isn't multiplicative. It's not even additive, because crit chance for FL isn't per cast, it's per tick. You can have non crit, and crit ticks on a single cast of FL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruxe Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Can we call them OP if at LVL 26 I get over 300k in heals? Without even actually focusing on heals the whole time? http://i.imgur.com/s090x.jpg also 4 MVP votes... 18 kills and only 5 medals? owie my brain.. look at the guy just below me... 7 medals? 0 objective points? What the heck is even worth medals in this game... 4 deaths means the other team barely took notice of him. Not hard to rack up 300k heals if you're left alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurleyKilla Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) 4 deaths means the other team barely took notice of him. Not hard to rack up 300k heals if you're left alone. hahaha do you really believe that? Or is it because I can bubble? Or force speed has a wonderfully short cooldown? Or the deadly combination of both? If only it showed how much damage I took.... they noticed me plenty.... Part of what makes them overpowered is the abilities they have at there disposal. Especially on that map, all I need to do is sprint away past my buddies... you would have to be a fool to keep chasing me. Seriously... they barely noticed me? What am I a ninja? When I get home tonight ill post one with 0 deaths.... Then I must be invisible man status Edited February 7, 2012 by KurleyKilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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