Powertech vs. Assassin

[Gnorrior]

Hello, I'm an avid pvp'er and am looking at leveling a powertech or assassin. I originally leveled a sage to healbot my brother, but we have since stopped pvp'ing and the sage is frankly boring (I normally run 0/13/28, and my damage/healing is often 300k/200k, so I'm alright, but my gear sucks so dunno.)

 

 

Anywho, I'm a meele'r at heart, but its very nice to have ranged mixed in, enh shammy from wow was one of my favorite classes for example.

 

So I thought I'd ask you guys which you thought would be better for pvp, since they seem to have relatively similar roles, tank/dps, both have pulls+roots, etc. I've done a lot of reading but get mixed messages.

 

PS: I always hear both powertech and assassin take skilled players to do well, if this is the case, I'm fine with learning to play before I am "good" and can 1v1, 2v2, etc. But my overall goal is to pick the class which is a beast at PvP. Thanks for any help.

[Bravemonster]

I have played both to 50, and I MUCH prefer my powertech.

 

I use Taugrim's "iron Fist" spec for PVP. It doeals a VERY nice bit of damage, with the added ability to shield an ally. I generaly get between 6-9 comms per Warfront (depending on how long they last).

 

To be fair, I thought at lower levels the assassin was much funner tho. The BH Powertech doesnt get very many fun abilities till a little later, plus trying to keep heat levels low when you only have 2-5 abilities and no heat dumps is pretty boring IMO. But once I cracked the 30s, there was no turning back for me.

[Sabbathius]

I have a Powertech and a Sin in low-mid 40s, so take this for what it's worth.

 

Powertech is a very, very simple class. Probably involves less skill than any other class I played so far. Merc has to deal with interrupts, a PT doesn't. Sorc is squishier and mostly stationary, a PT is mobile.

 

Also, in my view at least, PT is a very shallow class. You have exacty two CCs. One stun, 4 sec, 60 sec CD. And Carbonize (which I don't have yet), which is 2.5 sec AoE stun on 45 sec CD. That's all your tools. You have no way to buff your mobility, unless talented (like the talent deep in Prototype tree or Jet Jump deep in Shieldtech tree). You have no escape mechanisms. You do get Grapple, which is a pull attack, but it's a cheese move for getting people into fire/acid or interrupting their casts or yanking the ball carrier, not much use elsewhere.

 

Your defenses as a PT are rather weak and cooldown based. Your shield is 12 sec duration, reduces all damage 25%, and 2 min CD. Two minutes is a rather long time. Your second one, Kolto Overload, is 3 min CD and heals you for 15% of your HP over 10 seconds. Three minute CD is even longer. In a 15 min match, you'll use it a max 4 times, usually only 1-2 because most of the time it doesn't make any difference.

 

Having said that, in terms of ease of play vs effectiveness, it is by far the BEST char I have. It is SO EASY to play that it is virtually impossible to screw up. You run around and you shoot people. You are wearing heavy armor, and all your best attacks can be done while moving, which is something no other class has. I routinely rake up more medals and do more damage with my Powertech than I do on my Sin.

 

I highly recommend the class, if you can stand its horrible simplicity. Personally I can only take it in small doses.

 

Assassin has WAY more tools. You have the exact same 4 sec stun. You also have AoE knockback on 20 sec CD, which is invaluable. You have Force Speed and Force Cloak to catch up/escape. You can spec into Force Pull if you choose. You have Spike, which is a short 2 sec knockdown on 30 sec CD, can only be used from stealth but also without stealth if you spec for it. You have Whirlwind, which is 2 sec cast CC that lasts 8 seconds, can be instant cast if you spec for it.

 

Assassin is infinitely more complex to play to its full potential.

 

I'll give you a quick example. You are standing on the ramp in Huttball. Enemy group is passing by you with the ball. As a PT, you really have one option here - Carbonize and AoE them. You'll do some damage, you won't kill anyone, and they will butcher you in a few seconds as they go by. As a Sin, you stealth to them and do an AoE knockback. At least half the group will end up knocked over the edge, possibly even into the pit. That's a loooong walk. That's one example where Sin has a huge impact where PT has none.

 

Carrying the ball is another example. Suppose you are in front of the last burner, fire just went out. But you see 3 people standing there watching you. As soon as you start to cross, they will CC you. Fire will turn back on, and you will die. As a PT, you're dead. Unless you are specced into Jet Jump and they give you a target to jump to. But that's really no different from what any warrior can do, nothing special. As a Sin, you can pop Sprint and hope to cross before the CC catches you, and you'll probably make it. Or you can pop Force Shroud, which is 100% resist to tech and force. It won't stop all of the CC, but it'll stop most. If you get charged by a warrior while crossing even with Shroud on, you'll still get rooted, but not many people know it and not many warriors will sacrifice themselves like that.

 

Personally I leveled both so far. PT I play when I don't feel like doing any work at all, but still want to get tons of medals and look like the big hero. Assassin I play when I'm feeling nasty, because I can totally ruin another team's day by basically being a lil' bastid.

[Sowwy]

I wouldn't say PT is simple at all. Mara may be harder but my sin and ptech require about the same measure of finesse, just in different ways.

 

 

As you get higher level and the pvp environment gets more competitive, players are forced to squeeze every last drop from their class. As of now my ptech has near 30 hotkeys, the lack of oh **** buttons means I best be very aware of where I am, relative to the action and since pyro is heavily proc based spec, there's an added layer of contsant decision making. Keeping yourself alive vs battlemaster troopers, sages and scoundrels is a ***** without stealth, knockbacks or roots.

 

No, don't say ptech is simple, that's inexperience talking. The sin is much easier to keep alive, and its rotation is predictable.

 

 

I prefer my ptech over my sin, but just barely.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Sowwy

[Jaysun]

Assasins and OPs/scoundrels give my PT lots of trouble even if we both start from 100% I'd say I'm about 50/50 vs the good ones..

 

how many stuns due assasins get? it seems like they have 4!

[Gnorrior]

I wouldn't say PT is simple at all. Mara may be harder but my sin and ptech require about the same measure of finesse, just in different ways.

 

 

As you get higher level and the pvp environment gets more competitive, players are forced to squeeze every last drop from their class. As of now my ptech has near 30 hotkeys, the lack of oh **** buttons means I best be very aware of where I am, relative to the action and since pyro is heavily proc based spec, there's an added layer of contsant decision making. Keeping yourself alive vs battlemaster troopers, sages and scoundrels is a ***** without stealth, knockbacks or roots.

 

No, don't say ptech is simple, that's inexperience talking. The sin is much easier to keep alive, and its rotation is predictable.

 

 

I prefer my ptech over my sin, but just barely.

 

Would you say that your burst as a powertech out does the sins? Especially considering yours is mostly ranged from RS, as comparing to sin's having to be meele?

[Sabbathius]

I wouldn't say PT is simple at all. Mara may be harder but my sin and ptech require about the same measure of finesse, just in different ways.

 

I actually find for me it's the exact opposite. There's precious little room for finesse with PT, simply because you don't physically have tools for finesse. And the rotation being predictable on a Sin? It's even more predictable on a PT.

 

I mean, as a PT, you will set the target up with a DoT. No ifs or buts about it. You will then Rail shot it, and do your best to get another Rail Shot as fast as possible, using Punch and Flame burst without letting your heat go overboard. That's about it. That's your whole rotation, PvE or PvP.

 

Keeping yourself alive vs battlemaster troopers, sages and scoundrels is a ***** without stealth, knockbacks or roots.

 

That's what I meant when I said the class is very simple. You just don't have the tools to deal with these situations, where a Sin does. You have to depend on the other guy being bad, or the help of your teammates, to survive many of these situation. For you to live, the other guy has to screw up.

 

Mara is a good example of this. An average Mara, when I'm on my PT, doesn't even raise my pulse. I don't even bother to shield or pop cooldowns. A competent Mara? My goal is to get him to execute range for the next guy to come along before he kills me. If he's competent in the least and has his cooldowns up, it's curtains unless I get help. As a Sin, if push comes to shove I can always escape with force cloak, and force sprint while cloaked and grab the heal boost and be back in the fight a few seconds later, where a PT would have just died and be out of it for 20-30 seconds to rez/run back.

 

Maybe it's just me, I totally admit that. But that's just how I feel about the class. I'm leveling 3 chars more or less simultaneously right now - Sin, PT and Mara. And my OP is a few levels behind, though I'm not too crazy about him (and not because of the nerf, which I feel is actually a buff, I can stunlock amazingly well now).

 

All too often I'm playing a PT, and I keep pressing the keys bound to abilities that I would have on Sin or Mara to deal with a situation at hand. Only to realize I'm a PT and don't have those tools. But it's never the other way around, I never catch myself thinking "Oh, dang, this would have been so sweet if I was on my PT!" It never happens.

 

But again, that's just me, my personal experience with the class, how I feel about it. It's entirely possible the class just isn't for me in the long run. I mean I play a Mara and enjoy it, at least some of the time. But a Jugg by mid-20s was driving me crazy. Just doesn't have the same feel to it at all.

 

EDIT: The only exception to this general rule is the Grapple-Jet Jump combo. Which is fairly unique. Sometimes you need to split 2 people up. Say Operative and healer. What a PT can do is Grapple the Operative, and Jet Jump the healer. Operative ends up 30m away and rooted, while you and whoever else was there stomp the healer into the ground. But this is fairly rare.

 

On occasion you can do cool stuff, like grapple the ball carrier into the flames, get the ball, jet jump the enemy near spawn and cap. Yeah, it's a golden moment. But it's a highly situational thing. I mean, I'm aware of this stuff, it's neat, and very strong and a pain to try to counter. But it's just a gimmick that really only works in one WZ well.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Sabbathius

[Umpire]

Powertech is a very, very simple class. Probably involves less skill than any other class I played so far. Merc has to deal with interrupts, a PT doesn't. Sorc is squishier and mostly stationary, a PT is mobile.

Why are you comparing a ranged healer caster to a melee tank dps again? I really just don't understand.

 

 

You do get Grapple, which is a pull attack, but it's a cheese move for getting people into fire/acid or interrupting their casts or yanking the ball carrier, not much use elsewhere.

 

You clearly don't understand how valuable a peel/interrupt/immobilize(talented) grapple is. I like how knocking people into the pit is super pro, but pulling people into the pit/hazards is a cheese move.

 

Having said that, in terms of ease of play vs effectiveness, it is by far the BEST char I have. It is SO EASY to play that it is virtually impossible to screw up. You run around and you shoot people. You are wearing heavy armor, and all your best attacks can be done while moving, which is something no other class has.

 

Assassin is infinitely more complex to play to its full potential.

 

I'll give you a quick example. You are standing on the ramp in Huttball. Enemy group is passing by you with the ball. As a PT, you really have one option here - Carbonize and AoE them. You'll do some damage, you won't kill anyone, and they will butcher you in a few seconds as they go by. As a Sin, you stealth to them and do an AoE knockback. At least half the group will end up knocked over the edge, possibly even into the pit. That's a loooong walk. That's one example where Sin has a huge impact where PT has none.

 

Wat. You said that assassin was super complex, then you come over here and tell me your cool story about pressing one button for knock off. Wat?

 

Also, you're doing it wrong. Carbonize, trinkets, DFA. You aren't done now, and I've never seen a powertech get killed in seconds. The entire group is down to half health if you get the whole thing off, except for maybe the ball carrier due to guard/extra heals. Stun one healer (full resolve now since carb doesn't fill up the resolve bar), run out of range and grip the tank out of guard range (stuck there for 3 seconds), charge back in to interrupt the heal the healer is casting. At least one or two people are dead now thanks to you or you are doing it wrong. Also, you should be tossing out taunts (since they're off the GCD) most of the time on cooldown to save your healers some grief.

 

Carrying the ball is another example. Suppose you are in front of the last burner, fire just went out. But you see 3 people standing there watching you. As soon as you start to cross, they will CC you. Fire will turn back on, and you will die. As a PT, you're dead. Unless you are specced into Jet Jump and they give you a target to jump to. But that's really no different from what any warrior can do, nothing special. As a Sin, you can pop Sprint and hope to cross before the CC catches you, and you'll probably make it. Or you can pop Force Shroud, which is 100% resist to tech and force. It won't stop all of the CC, but it'll stop most. If you get charged by a warrior while crossing even with Shroud on, you'll still get rooted, but not many people know it and not many warriors will sacrifice themselves like that.

 

With the parakeet spec and the Iron Fist spec, there's little reason not to spec into jet charge. I know TD does fantastic damage and that's playstyle playstyle playstyle, but I always have rocket charge in my spec. Also, why the hell would you carry the ball without having charge? That's just being stupid and hurting your team. As a DPS your job isn't to tank a lot of damage, it's to DPS.

 

I tried really hard not to be butthurt when I read this but it was tough. I don't think I succeeded, so my bad. You are pretty condescending in this post but I think it's really that you just don't understand the trade off. Powertech trades a little utility for better survivability and mobility. It's really just that simple.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Umpire

[Rykke]

NOT GONNA QUOTE YOUR WALL OF TEXT

 

I like your write up of the comparisons and I agree with you for quite a few points. The Powertech has a simple mechanic in which he does his rotation depending on his spec. Only thing remotely complicated about is rationally knowing when to overextend your heat for that burst or when to hold back.

 

One of the biggest complaints PTs seem to have about their class is their defensive CDs. I'll admit on paper they aren't great, they still are base line and it isn't a fair comparison to look at a Juggernaut's Invincible, they have to spec for it. Despite its obviously inferiority, you're still able to grab good mileage out of them provided you preemptively pop them. The Assassin also has to deal with being kited more so than Powertechs as they are more melee than powertechs; if the powertech had anymore, they would be too OP.

 

Force speed is a great ability and I think it synergies really well with the rest of the Assassin's tool kit no doubt about it. What Jet Charge its equivalents have over it however if the freedom in the Z-axis. Absolutely a god-send in Huttball and I argue equally as useful in Voidstar. When you're defending and they just broke through the first door and are trying to cross the bridge. Somehow you find yourself back at spawn thankfully run out before the bridges are down. It is possible to Jet Charge past that gap and assist whoever is still there (or die again!).

 

Grapple/Force Pull while both have access to, for one it's base line and that is a huge difference. It's cheese alright to pull them into acid, fire, and off the bridge in voidstar, but these are all split second things you can do to greatly improve your team's chances on winning. I personally always try and remove a healer from the next assault as they run across the bridge in voidstar provided they have one. Also for straight hard peels, Grapple with No Escape is second to none.

 

Lastly the one thing Carbonize has over Overload is that you're able to set up kills or LOLAOE for fellow Juggernauts and other Bounty Hunters with ease!

Edited February 6, 2012 by Rykke

[Sowwy]

As I read this threat I realized why there's only one really good pvp powertech on my server.

 

 

Mara is a good example of this. An average Mara, when I'm on my PT, doesn't even raise my pulse. I don't even bother to shield or pop cooldowns. A competent Mara? My goal is to get him to execute range for the next guy to come along before he kills me. If he's competent in the least and has his cooldowns up, it's curtains unless I get help. As a Sin, if push comes to shove I can always escape with force cloak, and force sprint while cloaked and grab the heal boost and be back in the fight a few seconds later, where a PT would have just died and be out of it for 20-30 seconds to rez/run back.

 

You're still in baby pvp. The dynamic changes once you're fighting champ/BM geared and organized teams on vent. Your experience is valid for your level but things do NOT remain the same.

 

The plentiful supply of oh **** buttons is exactly what makes sin easier to manage in CCing, focus fire environments. Clicking a F or T (my sin survival hotkeys) doesn't require as much awareness as noting the location of 4-8 players trying to kill me and finding the sweet spot from which to dps.

 

# of buttons to press isn't a measure of challenge.

 

really, I'm not surprised there's so few really good ptechs if this is any indication of what the general consensus is.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Sowwy

[Sabbathius]

You clearly don't understand how valuable a peel/interrupt/immobilize(talented) grapple is. I like how knocking people into the pit is super pro, but pulling people into the pit/hazards is a cheese move.

 

The point is moot anyway, as a Sin can do the exact same thing. Force Pull->Spike. Same effect as talented Grapple.

 

With the parakeet spec and the Iron Fist spec, there's little reason not to spec into jet charge. I know TD does fantastic damage and that's playstyle playstyle playstyle, but I always have rocket charge in my spec. Also, why the hell would you carry the ball without having charge? That's just being stupid and hurting your team. As a DPS your job isn't to tank a lot of damage, it's to DPS.

 

All true. But have you taken a look at 1.1.2 patch notes? Assassins have a hybrid build which is basically their version of Carolina Parakeet. Guess what happens next patch? It goes extinct. They're killing it, by making key talents in Madness and Deception to require a specific stance (cylinder, for BHs).

 

Basically, as far as Sins go, Bioware is killing off hybrid builds next patch I would say odds are very good that one or two patches from now, the same thing will happen to PTs. Then what? If they're doing it to Sins, odds are good same will happen to the rest. Unless of course Bioware just hates Sins, in which case everyone will reroll PT anyway...

 

Powertech trades a little utility for better survivability and mobility. It's really just that simple.

 

Mobility, yes. Survivability, no. At least in my humble opinion. Force Shroud on a Sin alone is worth every cooldown a PT has combined, as far as I'm concerned. Especially talented Shroud that lasts 5 seconds. It alone did more for my Sin than all the shields did for my PT.

 

EDIT: Actually, that's a negative on mobility as well. My Sin can sprint every 20 seconds, and each time I sprint I break all roots and slows. I can make myself immune to all but physical roots for 5 seconds any time I want. My Wither is an AoE 30% slow that lasts 15 seconds (longest duration slow in the game), which makes me relatively more mobile than the people around me. And then there's Force Slow, that is single-target on demand 50% slow, on 12 sec CD. When it comes to catching people, I seem to have an easier time on my Sin.

 

Again, just an opinion here. I'm not looking for a fight and I'm not out to hurt anyone's feelings. My PT is currently just 3/4 of a level behind my Sin. So it's not like I have an obvious favourite. It's just lately I've been bummed out about the PT. Like I said, could all be in my head.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Sabbathius

[Dharagada]

Grapple can be used in almost any warzone to pick apart a small group.

 

Don't charge into a melee, use your grapple, find that healer keeping the rest of the team up in the middle of the group and pull him to you, displace the ranged dps, etc.

 

A DPS powertech is a peeler and can also act like an assassin (without the stealth).

 

Yes the DPS rotation can be overall very simple (though knowing when to blow your wad on heat can take some little precision), and yes we are easily focused down, but you can take down pretty much any other class 1 on 1, with the biggest threat being the marauder/sentinel, especially with all their cool downs up (not impossible but very difficult).

 

Though I certainly wouldn't call an Inquisitor Assassin as having an overly complex rotation, bout the only spec/class that has any real complexity is the Annihilation/Watchman Marauder/sentinel and it's still not rocket science (though I do love their cool downs).

 

I do wish the Powertech had more utility/mobility (well at least as a pure pyrotech I do) but I know I contribute to my pvp matches, I can displace and burn down quite a few people, I have excellent aoe and I can fight at range to some degree if necessary.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Dharagada

[Sabbathius]

I do wish the Powertech had more utility/mobility (well at least as a pure pyrotech I do) but I know I contribute to my pvp matches, I can displace and burn down quite a few people, I have excellent aoe and I can fight at range to some degree if necessary.

 

With this in mind, I've been looking at Advanced Prototype tree lately. I realize it has a lot of shortcomings, but the +15% movement speed in combat as well as Hydraulic Override making you 30% faster while also immune for slows/knockbacks for 8 seconds with a measly 30 sec CD? That's pretty nifty. It's no Predation or Force Sprint, but it's better than nothing. Something I keep meaning to try one day.