No one will remember if a game is late, only if it's great.

[DarthRik]

My god what planet do you live on? WOW broke 2 million subs within the very first week!

 

source or it didnt happen??

[Marlaine]

Your biggest problem is that you are going against the already established consensus that is years old, that WoWs launch was horrible. You scour the internet, and the general consensus is that WoWs launch was horrible. It has become general knowlege that WoWs launch was horrible.

 

And you, sir, are smoking mad crack. If you truly believe wow's launch was horrible, that's your delusion. Nothing I say will convince you so I'm done trying.

[DarthRik]

WoW was the first MMO to cater to a casual player where grouping was not required to level up, and the game was far more forgiving then other MMOs out there. That is the biggest reason why the game became so successful so quick. There was zero competition out there for the casual market, so people either didn't play MMOs at all, or they trudged through the problems while being given free play time while Blizzard ironed out the problems.

 

Your biggest problem is that you are going against the already established consensus that is years old, that WoWs launch was horrible. You scour the internet, and the general consensus is that WoWs launch was horrible. It has become general knowlege that WoWs launch was horrible.

 

what are you talking about?

 

the LFG tools didnt come into the game untill Wrath.

 

and i remember standing in ironforge spamming /2 looking for a group in Vanilla and TBC, it was never casual friendly untill the early on in Wrath.

[Dantragk]

The game was already late...it was supposed to come out spring of 2011.

 

Imagine how bad the game would have been if it was released 10 months earlier... or better actually!

[BrandonSM]

All right, whatever. I clearly cannot argue with someone who thinks they know everything. I guess the fact that I played wow religiously at launch means nothing. I guess the fact that me and multiple friends played hours upon hours at a time with nary a blip means nothing.

 

Arguing with you is purely a waste of my time because you are DETERMINED to believe wow was horrible at launch, no matter what. Nothing I say will matter to you and the other two wow haters in this thread.

 

All I will end with saying is that wow didn't completely smash the sub numbers of all previous mmos COMBINED within the first week by having a poor buggy launch. Anyone with the slightest thread of intelligence can figure this out.

 

WoW Was horrible at launch. Gigantic qeues(I was on DragonMaw server), bugs and glitches that caused my computer to crash. Going through the floor, not being able to accept quests, my weapons werent showing when I engaged in combat. The figh animations sometimes didn't show at all, all I saw was -10 on the little animal that I was killing. And I remember it going on maintence several times in 2 weeks.

[Wolfeisberg]

what are you talking about?

 

the LFG tools didnt come into the game untill Wrath.

 

and i remember standing in ironforge spamming /2 looking for a group in Vanilla and TBC, it was never casual friendly untill the early on in Wrath.

 

Did you miss the part where I said that grouping was not required to level up at all? One could solo level the game from level 1-60, never getting into a group. Compare this to EQ, the Top MMO when WoW releaseed, where you had to have a group to get anything accomplished, even to level up, and it wasn't forgiving either.

 

I never talked about the LFG, and having an LFG is not a requirement to be casual friendly. I was able to log on for less then 1 hour and still get things accomplished for my characters progression.

[djsmileey]

All right, whatever. I clearly cannot argue with someone who thinks they know everything. I guess the fact that I played wow religiously at launch means nothing. I guess the fact that me and multiple friends played hours upon hours at a time with nary a blip means nothing.

 

Arguing with you is purely a waste of my time because you are DETERMINED to believe wow was horrible at launch, no matter what. Nothing I say will matter to you and the other two wow haters in this thread.

 

All I will end with saying is that wow didn't completely smash the sub numbers of all previous mmos COMBINED within the first week by having a poor buggy launch. Anyone with the slightest thread of intelligence can figure this out.

 

This is the ignorance I am talking about.

 

You think just because YOU had no problems, that the entire world did as well.

 

Arguing with me is a waste of time, because you fail to see both sides of the argument; which I am doing.

 

You simply stay in your mindset, without the ability to consider counter-arguments without freakin' out and resolving to name calling.

 

If you actually had done your research, you'd know that wow didn't actually really start picking up till much later on. Which is EXACTLY what this argument was all about. You claimed all successful games are only made so right at the beginning. Not even WoW fits into that category. People return to a game when they see it doing well, and that problems have been fixed.

 

THERE ARE ZERO MMO'S RELEASED TO DATE WITHOUT BUGS/ISSUES.

[thecoffeecup]

No one will remember if the game is late, only if it's great.

 

Did somone mention Duke Nuken Forever yet?

 

It's also a really bad game, but that's another story entirely.

[Marmerus]

WoW was the first MMO to cater to a casual player where grouping was not required to level up, and the game was far more forgiving then other MMOs out there. That is the biggest reason why the game became so successful so quick. There was zero competition out there for the casual market, so people either didn't play MMOs at all, or they trudged through the problems while being given free play time while Blizzard ironed out the problems.

 

Your biggest problem is that you are going against the already established consensus that is years old, that WoWs launch was horrible. You scour the internet, and the general consensus is that WoWs launch was horrible. It has become general knowlege that WoWs launch was horrible.

Yeah I agree. It was horrible so many people tried to make death knights when WoW was launched.

Good thing Lord of Destruction expansion was released so it fixed all the bugs. Or else there would have been no way anyone would be waiting for their next expansion Hear of the Swarm.

 

 

I also like making stuff up We should be best friends!

 

[djsmileey]

And you, sir, are smoking mad crack. If you truly believe wow's launch was horrible, that's your delusion. Nothing I say will convince you so I'm done trying.

 

The problem is you only see things from your point of view. Stop trying to convince others that they are wrong, and start considering what they are saying is true.

 

You don't have to accept it as fact, or truth, or even agree; but recognition of an opposing thought is OK.

 

Simply stating 'wow had a perfect launch' backed with zero sources is not proof of anything.

[SlickDevlan]

WoW was the first MMO to cater to a casual player where grouping was not required to level up, and the game was far more forgiving then other MMOs out there. That is the biggest reason why the game became so successful so quick. There was zero competition out there for the casual market, so people either didn't play MMOs at all, or they trudged through the problems while being given free play time while Blizzard ironed out the problems.

 

Your biggest problem is that you are going against the already established consensus that is years old, that WoWs launch was horrible. You scour the internet, and the general consensus is that WoWs launch was horrible. It has become general knowlege that WoWs launch was horrible.

 

Only a complete and utter buffoon, or a pathetic spindoctor would even pretend that WoW's launch wasn't horrid. I suspect that you either weren't there or are merely another in the long line of selective memory sufferers using WoW's mythical perfection to bash SWTOR.

[Wolfeisberg]

Yeah I agree. It was horrible so many people tried to make death knights when WoW was launched.

Good thing Lord of Destruction expansion was released so it fixed all the bugs. Or else there would have been no way anyone would be waiting for their next expansion Hear of the Swarm.

 

 

I also like making stuff up We should be best friends!

 

There are far more people in this thread stating that WoW's launch was horrible, then there are of you saying it was a smooth launch. What does that tell you? Even you scour the interent, you will find more people stating that WoWs launch was horrible. Plus, why would they give nearly 2 months worth of free time for a smooth launch?

 

Or are you saying that I am making up that WoW was a casual friendly MMO when it released? Cause I am very curious you how you can prove that I am making that up, because it is an absolute fact that a person can log on, do some solo questing, and then log off less then 1 hour later and got things accomplished and their character progressed. People could solo level their character all the way to 60 without ever needing a group. If that isn't casual, I don't know what is.

[Wolfeisberg]

Only a complete and utter buffoon, or a pathetic spindoctor would even pretend that WoW's launch wasn't horrid. I suspect that you either weren't there or are merely another in the long line of selective memory sufferers using WoW's mythical perfection to bash SWTOR.

 

umm what? I did state that WoWs launch was horrible, that is what I have been saying this whole time.

 

I think your reading comprehension slacked for a little bit there, perhaps you need more sleep?

 

You need to be pointing that at Marlaine, he is the one that has been stating that WoWs launch was smooth, I have been disagreeing with him the whole time.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Wolfeisberg

[Marmerus]

There are far more people in this thread stating that WoW's launch was horrible, then there are of you saying it was a smooth launch. What does that tell you? Even you scour the interent, you will find more people stating that WoWs launch was horrible. Plus, why would they give nearly 2 months worth of free time for a smooth launch?

 

Or are you saying that I am making up that WoW was a casual friendly MMO when it released? Cause I am very curious you how you can prove that I am making that up, because it is an absolute fact that a person can log on, do some solo questing, and then log off less then 1 hour later and got things accomplished and their character progressed. People could solo level their character all the way to 60 without ever needing a group. If that isn't casual, I don't know what is.

I played it in the beta and launch and it was almost flawless for me. Was a few bugs but nothing game breaking.

Even in the beta the gameplay was smooth and did not have massive problems with hidden latency and ability lag like SWTOR has.

 

When WoW was released it was not a casual game. You could not complete elite quests alone and it took much longer to level up to max level than it does in SWTOR. Dungeons was much harder and people had to use CC. Today hardly anyone in SWTOR even knows what CC means.

 

So make up your mind if you are talking about the launch of WoW or launch of WOTLK.

[Wolfeisberg]

I played it in the beta and launch and it was almost flawless for me. Was a few bugs but nothing game breaking.

Even in the beta the gameplay was smooth and did not have massive problems with hidden latency and ability lag like SWTOR has.

 

When WoW was released it was not a casual game. You could not complete elite quests alone and it took much longer to level up to max level than it does in SWTOR. Dungeons was much harder and people had to use CC. Today hardly anyone in SWTOR even knows what CC means.

 

So make up your mind if you are talking about the launch of WoW or launch of WOTLK.

 

ah, so it is just a difference of opinion of what makes something casual. In my opinion WoW was a casual MMO at launch just for the simple fact that one could level 1-60 without ever getting into a group. When it come to grouping, the elite quests didn't take long to complete, and there were lots of dungeons that were less then 2 hours long as well, though there were a fair amount that took way more then 2 hours.

 

But again, apparently you and I have a difference of opinion on when the game was casual. Though you are the first time I have heard someone state that WoW was not casual friendly at launch.

[Skapek-Skocap]

They rushed it, just like Kotor II was rushed... Because people *****ED and complained that they had waited too long and they wanted to play this epic and awesome game NOW.

 

They released an awesome game that is still getting on it's feet and going to release some kick *** content in the future, and the same people who rushed them are leaving now because they are impatient hypocrites.

 

Seriously.. A lot of us waited since '08 for this game. Can you not wait 6 months for this game to get even better?

 

It's only going to get better from here.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Skapek-Skocap

[BrandonSM]

They rushed it, just like Kotor II was rushed... Because people *****ED and complained that they had waited too long and they wanted to play this epic and awesome game NOW.

 

They released an awesome game that is still getting on it's feet and going to release some kick *** content in the future, and the same people who rushed them are leaving now because they are impatient hypocrites.

 

Seriously.. A lot of us waited since '08 for this game. Can you not wait 6 months for this game to get even better?

 

It's only going to get better from here.

 

BW Didn't do KOTOR 2...

[Wolfeisberg]

They rushed it, just like Kotor II was rushed... Because people *****ED and complained that they had waited too long and they wanted to play this epic and awesome game NOW.

 

They released an awesome game that is still getting on it's feet and going to release some kick *** content in the future, and the same people who rushed them are leaving now because they are impatient hypocrites.

 

Seriously.. A lot of us waited since '08 for this game. Can you not wait 6 months for this game to get even better?

 

It's only going to get better from here.

 

If it was indeed rushed out the door, it wasn't because of the players clamoring for it, it was because they, EA, wanted a big sale numbers for the holiday season. It is the exact same reason why KOTOR 2 was released earlier, nearly 5 month earlier then planned, because Lucas Arts need a big seller in time for the holiday season. Shortly after KOTOR 2 release, Lucas Arts did some reorganization, and the guy that made that decision for the early release of KOTOR 2 got canned.

 

Obsidian did KOTOR 2.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Wolfeisberg

[Gilbara]

Did somone mention Duke Nuken Forever yet?

 

It's also a really bad game, but that's another story entirely.

 

You are confusing association with causation. You are arguing Duke Nukem Forever sucked, and it took a long time to be released, therefore it must have sucked because it took a long time to be released.

 

This is a logical fallacy. The two things are associated but you have not shown a causal relationship exists.

 

Thus, you cannot argue by inference that delaying the release of SWTOR would cause it to suck.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Gilbara

[PinkSugar]

Bioware gambled, and rushed SWTOR to launch way before it was polished. SWTOR could have been GREAT. They gambled and lost in my opinion. I realize many will point to sales figures and say 1.7 million subscribers say different. But lets be real. It was one of the most hyped, and long-awaited MMO's in history, and one of the biggest IP's ever. It's the hype and IP that drove the initial sales. But the majority of the seasoned MMO players out there who have played this game know it has not delivered. Many of them have gone back to their previous games.

 

BioWare and EA should have had the attitude of Blizzard. They should have listened to the beta-testers, and delayed SWTOR's launch until the product was truly ready.

 

Read this quote from Blizzard:

 

"While working on Diablo III we've been called out for messing around with systems too much, that the game is good as-is and we should just release it. I think that's a fair argument to make, but I also think it's incorrect. Our job isn't just to put out a game, it's to release the next Diablo game. No one will remember if the game is late, only if it's great. We trust in our ability to put out a great game, but we're not quite there yet."

 

-- Jay Wilson, Game Director: Diablo III

 

 

Sage wisdom if you ask me. Something EA seems to sorely lack IMO.

 

 

Blizzard is a seasoned team that knows what Seasoned gamers want. As much as I hate to admit it, it's true.

 

There's a reason why some people chose to go to certain companies who have been in business since (forever long time ago), it's because they have more than likely proven time and time again that they know how to deliver to you what you are paying for. Quality!

[Marlaine]

There are far more people in this thread stating that WoW's launch was horrible, then there are of you saying it was a smooth launch. What does that tell you? Even you scour the interent, you will find more people stating that WoWs launch was horrible. Plus, why would they give nearly 2 months worth of free time for a smooth launch?

 

The few people in this thread bashing wow mean nothing compared to wow's massive number of subs. The people who get paid to highlight flaws in the game will do exactly what they are paid to do. The massive amount of people enjoying the game don't waste their time in forums bashing the game.

 

I argue from my experience of numerous friends playing every class with no problems for days on end. There was definately overload, causing excessive queue times and disconnects, so there was certainly that issue, and there were certainly some bugs. I'm not arguing that.

 

I didn't argue that wow had a flawless release. My entire argument is that wow was more polished on release than any mmo to date, and I stand by that. Not by some nebulous feeling, or some wierd love for wow, but from the experience of playing the game extensively with multiple people both through the stress test betas and release.

 

I do understand that varying people may have varying problems, but if there were that many problems I would have consistenly heard complaints from the people I was playing with. And the fact is that we played relentlessly with very few problems. Pretty much loot lag and queues were our only beef with the game, and those two issues have nothing to do with polish.

[PinkSugar]

The few people in this thread bashing wow mean nothing compared to wow's massive number of subs. The people who get paid to highlight flaws in the game will do exactly what they are paid to do. The massive amount of people enjoying the game don't waste their time in forums bashing the game.

 

I argue from my experience of numerous friends playing every class with no problems for days on end. There was definately overload, causing excessive queue times and disconnects, so there was certainly that issue, and there were certainly some bugs. I'm not arguing that.

 

I didn't argue that wow had a flawless release. My entire argument is that wow was more polished on release than any mmo to date, and I stand by that. Not by some nebulous feeling, or some wierd love for wow, but from the experience of playing the game extensively with multiple people both through the stress test betas and release.

 

I do understand that varying people may have varying problems, but if there were that many problems I would have consistenly heard complaints from the people I was playing with. And the fact is that we played relentlessly with very few problems. Pretty much loot lag and queues were our only beef with the game, and those two issues have nothing to do with polish.

 

Kudos to you sir!

[Marlaine]

The problem is you only see things from your point of view. Stop trying to convince others that they are wrong, and start considering what they are saying is true.

 

You don't have to accept it as fact, or truth, or even agree; but recognition of an opposing thought is OK.

 

Simply stating 'wow had a perfect launch' backed with zero sources is not proof of anything.

 

Excuse me. I never said wow had a perfect launch. I said it was extremely polished upon release, and I stand by my statement. Extremely polished does not mean perfect or bug-free.

 

Alternatively, you and others are trying to convince me that wow's launch was horrible, and I find that laughable. Maybe not perfect (which I would never expect from a mmo), but far far FAR from horrible.

 

Perhaps it would interest you to know that I also feel SWTOR was extremely polished upon release? All I was doing in this thread was commenting that a mmo only gets one chance to make an impression, not stating that SWTOR failed on polish.

[djsmileey]

Excuse me. I never said wow had a perfect launch. I said it was extremely polished upon release, and I stand by my statement. Extremely polished does not mean perfect or bug-free.

 

Alternatively, you and others are trying to convince me that wow's launch was horrible, and I find that laughable. Maybe not perfect (which I would never expect from a mmo), but far far FAR from horrible.

 

Perhaps it would interest you to know that I also feel SWTOR was extremely polished upon release? All I was doing in this thread was commenting that a mmo only gets one chance to make an impression, not stating that SWTOR failed on polish.

 

Lol, you do see what is happening right.

 

We all played WoW too, and we all saw the bugs and problems.

 

Polished, or w/e you want to call it, you are just splitting hairs. You are claiming one thing without actual facts or substance to base them upon, just your own opinion.

 

You and your few friends who had a flawless launch doesn't mean that the game was flawless or even POLISHED.

 

Tired of you using random points and opinionated responses as though they are fact. Get over it, the launch was bad despite your version of it.

 

Bottom line, wow did not have the most polished launch, but it wasn't terrible either.

 

Quite honestly I don't know what your point is anymore.

Edited February 6, 2012 by djsmileey

[PinkSugar]

Excuse me. I never said wow had a perfect launch. I said it was extremely polished upon release, and I stand by my statement. Extremely polished does not mean perfect or bug-free.

 

Alternatively, you and others are trying to convince me that wow's launch was horrible, and I find that laughable. Maybe not perfect (which I would never expect from a mmo), but far far FAR from horrible.

 

Perhaps it would interest you to know that I also feel SWTOR was extremely polished upon release? All I was doing in this thread was commenting that a mmo only gets one chance to make an impression, not stating that SWTOR failed on polish.

 

Don't pay attention to the delusional.

 

The REAL million dollar question here is how much time did Blizzard spend on developing World of Warcraft?

 

People forget that this game was under development for quite some time. With that being the case, many of the issues that existed upon launch and still to this day should have never existed! It's utterly not excusable!

 

I find myself asking, "What in the world were they doing all that time"?

 

In essence, for those who think that the game is great in the state that it is in, then I am happy that you have found something to spend your hard earned (or not so hard earned) money on. However, for people like me...I feel as though this game could have and should have brought more considering the Genre it is in and the time that went into creating it before its launch.

 

I suppose everything is relative. I am a seasoned gamer myself, and my fiance is a professional gamer. We can honestly say that this game will not keep our attention very long.