To people complaining about

[Snaex]

Increased force cost on charges.

 

If you were stance dancing in this game you are bad, plain and simple. At 50 force, mid combat charge changing is a complete and utter waste of force and you shouldn't be doing it. The change to 100force is a buff for you people, because now you won't be doing things that make you worse.

[PhoenixUnity]

Only bads complain about this, aka most of the mmo playing community. They feel they should be free to both be tanky and do decent damage. Even in a game like this one where you are rated by how many total things you can did in a warzone. QQ more bads.

[mausty]

Increased force cost on charges.

 

If you were stance dancing in this game you are bad, plain and simple. At 50 force, mid combat charge changing is a complete and utter waste of force and you shouldn't be doing it. The change to 100force is a buff for you people, because now you won't be doing things that make you worse.

 

yeah i read this change and was like "who cares"

[Seanhazz]

Lets say by chance you are in Huttball as DPS, and the Ball magically lands in your hands after you take out the carrier solo on the platforms, now you just throw it away?

 

No, you change stances and try to carry for that game score if there is no one to pass to. I have done it many times. Now after the changes, you'll have to wait that last leg until the fire is down because you can't use your skills., which will allow the zerg to catch you and chain stun you.

 

...or, non-tanking builds treat it as a hot potato.

 

 

Its just a bad idea, especially since we are the squishiest class.

[tXHereticXt]

...just pass it away?

 

[cue music] That's ******* team work!

[Andodx]

please be so kind to read and understand a text as a whole before you answer/comment to it.

 

What do you do if there is no one to pass the ball to? Be a teamplayer and force a neutral ball because you cant possibly defend it?

Just Darkcharge and make it happen until you find a more potent carrier on your side, if no one shows up go for the goal yourself or buy time until your team is back respawned and on the spot.

Not everyone plays PvP with a fixed group of 4 mates that stick together all the time, and if you were clever you wouldn't have an assasin in such a group anyway, or is only playing in Darknes and has no need to switch anyway.

 

In PvE I had some situations in 8 and 16 player raids where an assasin switched to darkcharge to temporarily tank a boss, for what ever reason the tank died in the first place:rolleyes:. In normal mode it's not a problem to tank with a focus for a few seconds, hm/nm a dead tank is a wipe.

 

So this change just gives us assasins less options to be the hero that saved the day. Not that we have manny chances to shine to beginn with...

[Conspire]

Wrong op is WRONG.. going from 20% DR to 36% DR does not make you bad.

 

Maybe you don't premade often, or for that matter even win often, but if my healer is about to go down and I need to keep him up guess what I'm gonna do? Switch to Dark Charge--> Guard+Taunt.

 

Another example: ally dies, passes the ball to me, I'm near the goal line.. 20% DR vs 36% DR? Hmmm

 

Contrary to what you may think... a good assassin will most definitely stance dance depending on the situation.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Conspire

[insendial]

Wrong op is WRONG.. going from 20% DR to 36% DR does not make you bad.

 

Maybe you don't premade often, or for that matter even win often, but if my healer is about to go down and I need to keep him up guess what I'm gonna do? Switch to Dark Charge--> Guard+Taunt.

 

Another example: ally dies, passes the ball to me, I'm near the goal line.. 20% DR vs 36% DR? Hmmm

 

Contrary to what you may think... a good assassin will most definitely stance dance depending on the situation.

^^ this.

 

It's not dancing like ye olde WoW Warrior, but its still 'dancing' to some degree. Now it is more difficult, but not too much so.

[Snaex]

Wrong op is WRONG.. going from 20% DR to 36% DR does not make you bad.

 

Maybe you don't premade often, or for that matter even win often, but if my healer is about to go down and I need to keep him up guess what I'm gonna do? Switch to Dark Charge--> Guard+Taunt.

 

Another example: ally dies, passes the ball to me, I'm near the goal line.. 20% DR vs 36% DR? Hmmm

 

Contrary to what you may think... a good assassin will most definitely stance dance depending on the situation.

 

Your premise is flawed.

 

A) A good player is specced darkness/madness and will have dark charge for guard/armor mitigation from the get go.

 

 

oh **** I dont need any more points, A is enough.

 

 

 

I feel bad for the premades that decide to take you as opposed to an assassin that knows what he is doing. I can consitantly get 250-400k (depending on the time in the match) dmg in the average warzone, and that's as dark/mad spec. That is just as much if not more than a deception sin and I never have to stance dance ever. GJ burning someone when you blow half your force bar on a useless stance switch.

[theonepanda]

They actually should've made it like stance dancing for warriors...but thats what warriors (hey remember that class?) do already, lol.

 

What I mean is, have 0 force cost, but drops your force to 0.

 

That way you can actually dance, instead of...ionno, not doing anything atm.

[Meflieshigh]

To everyone saying you change stances to carry the ball(in huttball of course):

 

First of all, the charge barely helps unless your specced for it, in which case, why are you using a DPS charge in the first place?

 

Second. It's called pocket healers, it's also a strategy game, SO STRATEGIZE. Go backwards, escape the mobs of people, get your members to defend you, and push forward.

 

Third. I can score fine using a DPS charge, even if I'm not wearing my PvP gear, better gear, etc. Simply because I don't go 1oneveryone. I get help, never change my charge, and kick butt.

 

Lastly. Pass, pass, pass. If you can't, run around 'till your team is ready, then nuetral it.

 

 

 

Also, if you aren't communicating, you aren't going to win... Unless you're premade and all do the same thing every time, but still, that almost never happens.

[Astarica]

If you receive the ball and there's no one to pass in front of you, going from Surging/Lightning Charge to Dark Charge won't help you. You're still going to be dead, especially if you don't have the crucial talents to help you survive (extended Force Shroud, root breaking Force Speed). If you had those talents, you'll probably start the fight in Dark Charge anyway.

 

Survival is meaningless if you can't do DPS unless your sole role is to disrupt the enemy from say capping an objective, but in those cases you should've started the fight in Dark Charge if your goal is just to stall time.

[Sabbathius]

Increased force cost on charges.

 

If you were stance dancing in this game you are bad, plain and simple. At 50 force, mid combat charge changing is a complete and utter waste of force and you shouldn't be doing it. The change to 100force is a buff for you people, because now you won't be doing things that make you worse.

 

Your argument notwithstanding, all other stance-based classes will STILL be able to stance-dance after next patch, without losing all of their energy. Juggs, Powertechs, Marauders, etc., will still be able to do it. We will not. That's not fair. Either give us ours back, or nerf all of theirs as well. Otherwise it's just not an even playing field, even if we are bad.

[Lowerydro]

Your argument notwithstanding, all other stance-based classes will STILL be able to stance-dance after next patch, without losing all of their energy. Juggs, Powertechs, Marauders, etc., will still be able to do it. We will not. That's not fair. Either give us ours back, or nerf all of theirs as well. Otherwise it's just not an even playing field, even if we are bad.

 

That is my complaint....

 

I use it to guard people when needed and I am deception specced (not all the time). I can't force a pug'er to pass me the ball, so if he is going to run the ball then I'll guard. Powertechs and warriors don't have to have a full resource bar in order to change stances.

 

It is something that basically takes away from the class without fixing or improving on anything.

 

I hate to use this example, but.... a long time ago the devs for another MMO put out a statement that after long reviews of abilities and gameplay they decided that making changes that were not FUN for the players was counter to what they wanted to achieve. It was the most intelligent thing I have seen a MMO developer say.

 

Putting changes into the game that only takes away from the people playing the one class is not fun, not needed and does not benefit any other class or remove something that has been a problem for other classes. This is simply something a class designer thinks should be there so they are putting it there.

[Conspire]

Your premise is flawed.

 

A) A good player is specced darkness/madness and will have dark charge for guard/armor mitigation from the get go.

 

 

oh **** I dont need any more points, A is enough.

 

 

 

I feel bad for the premades that decide to take you as opposed to an assassin that knows what he is doing. I can consitantly get 250-400k (depending on the time in the match) dmg in the average warzone, and that's as dark/mad spec. That is just as much if not more than a deception sin and I never have to stance dance ever. GJ burning someone when you blow half your force bar on a useless stance switch.

 

Pics or it didn't happen...and I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing: http://i44.tinypic.com/furpys.png.

 

Sure I'll admit going darkness hybrid or full 31 darkness is more reliable for pvp, but that doesnt count out deception/madness.. theyre both viable specs in the hands of good players and both do higher single target dps..a good decep/madness assassin WILL stance dance.. keeping your healer alive > little extra dps

[DarthNorik]

Reasons good players stance dance, not doing so is pretty stupid.

 

Fighting a fellow assassin in pvp, you are beating him, he pops force cloak, is still losing, switch to lightning charge, discharge for the dot, back to dark. He can no longer run away for 18 secs.

 

Someone on your team gets the ball, theres noone around to help you guys, dark charge to guard the ball carrier.

 

Someone throws you the ball, you have a healer healing you, dark charge to take less damage and give the healer an easier time.

 

Your doing flashpoints, tank goes down, boss is at 20% health. Dark Charge and finish the fight as the tank.

 

Doing a raid, boss is untauntable, you gain aggro, dark charge to stay alive until tank regains aggro.

 

If you can't see why stance dancing is important you are a bad person. And this won't stop stance dancing, just make it more costly which is also ok because as a warrior you used to lose all your rage, same thing, just a different game.

Edited February 6, 2012 by DarthNorik

[Snaex]

Pics or it didn't happen...and I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing: http://i44.tinypic.com/furpys.png.

 

Sure I'll admit going darkness hybrid or full 31 darkness is more reliable for pvp, but that doesnt count out deception/madness.. theyre both viable specs in the hands of good players and both do higher single target dps..a good decep/madness assassin WILL stance dance.. keeping your healer alive > little extra dps

 

http://i43.tinypic.com/w6umwm.jpg

 

I don't normally make a point of screenshotting meaningless leaderboard stats, but I can do that in most any game that goes to near full duration.

[Plexxx]

Reasons good players stance dance, not doing so is pretty stupid.

 

Fighting a fellow assassin in pvp, you are beating him, he pops force cloak, is still losing, switch to lightning charge, discharge for the dot, back to dark. He can no longer run away for 18 secs.

 

Someone on your team gets the ball, theres noone around to help you guys, dark charge to guard the ball carrier.

 

Someone throws you the ball, you have a healer healing you, dark charge to take less damage and give the healer an easier time.

 

Your doing flashpoints, tank goes down, boss is at 20% health. Dark Charge and finish the fight as the tank.

 

Doing a raid, boss is untauntable, you gain aggro, dark charge to stay alive until tank regains aggro.

 

If you can't see why stance dancing is important you are a bad person. And this won't stop stance dancing, just make it more costly which is also ok because as a warrior you used to lose all your rage, same thing, just a different game.

 

 

You burnt 70 force, to put a super weak dot on an opponent. Firstly, why do you even have 70 force spare? If you are, as you claim, beating this player and you have 70% of your force bar remaining then your opponent is awful.

 

If someone throws you the ball, you'll still be able to dark charge, it'll just take a couple more ticks to regen. Although, judging by how much force you have spare when you pvp it probably won't make a difference for you.

 

If you're dpsing in a raid, and dpsing well, then your force bar will be bouncing around the 0-25 mark. At 50 force, if you pull agro, you do not have enough force to change to dark charge before you're dead. The alternatives, vanishing and/or deflection, are much better for dealing with threat pulls.

 

Lastly, I find it hilarious you're calling other players bad yet when you read between the lines of your post, it shows you're bloody awful yourself.

[E-Zekiel]

I agree with you OP, but I don't stance dance and I sitll think this change is dumb. Because basically I'm just not gonna use my charge at all anymore, because it will be better for me to use other stuff. They should have changed this somehow else; this solution is actually pretty terrible.

[DarthNorik]

You burnt 70 force, to put a super weak dot on an opponent. Firstly, why do you even have 70 force spare? If you are, as you claim, beating this player and you have 70% of your force bar remaining then your opponent is awful.

 

If someone throws you the ball, you'll still be able to dark charge, it'll just take a couple more ticks to regen. Although, judging by how much force you have spare when you pvp it probably won't make a difference for you.

 

If you're dpsing in a raid, and dpsing well, then your force bar will be bouncing around the 0-25 mark. At 50 force, if you pull agro, you do not have enough force to change to dark charge before you're dead. The alternatives, vanishing and/or deflection, are much better for dealing with threat pulls.

 

Lastly, I find it hilarious you're calling other players bad yet when you read between the lines of your post, it shows you're bloody awful yourself.

 

I never said the change to dark charge will stop it, as I said in my post it will just make it harder. I vanish usually as soon as dark embrace goes away so I get more dark embrace while my relic is still active, so theres a good chance it wont be up. Deflection is great but could also be on CD. And you never addresses the most important part there where if a tank dies you can tank the boss with pretty much the same armor and prevent truly squishy DPSers from gaining aggro.

[Plexxx]

I never said the change to dark charge will stop it, as I said in my post it will just make it harder. I vanish usually as soon as dark embrace goes away so I get more dark embrace while my relic is still active, so theres a good chance it wont be up. Deflection is great but could also be on CD. And you never addresses the most important part there where if a tank dies you can tank the boss with pretty much the same armor and prevent truly squishy DPSers from gaining aggro.

 

If you're pulling agro so frequently that deflection and vanish are both not up, your tank is bad or you are bad or both.

 

If the content is so easy that you can successfully tank the boss in dps gear, then why is the tank dying? This is assuming you have the quick reactions to put on a force generator at the same time as dark charging, because dark charge by itself likely won't save you.

 

In properly hard content, you pull agro/tank dies then you're dead; dark charge won't save you. Force Shroud / Deflection will have a better chance at keeping you alive than dark charge; or you could just vanish.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Plexxx

[DarthNorik]

If you're pulling agro so frequently that deflection and vanish are both not up, your tank is bad or you are bad or both.

 

If the content is so easy that you can successfully tank the boss in dps gear, then why is the tank dying? This is assuming you have the quick reactions to put on a force generator at the same time as dark charging, because dark charge by itself likely won't save you.

 

In properly hard content, you pull agro/tank dies then you're dead; dark charge won't save you. Force shroud / Deflection will have a better chance at saving you than dark charge.

 

And whats wrong with using all 3, using dark charge to keep aggro. I don't understand what you are arguing anymore. There no way you can't deny its useful. I never said it was godly, just useful and smart players take advantage of useful things.

[Plexxx]

And whats wrong with using all 3, using dark charge to keep aggro. I don't understand what you are arguing anymore. There no way you can't deny its useful. I never said it was godly, just useful and smart players take advantage of useful things.

 

I was illustrating that in properly hard content, avoidance abilities will be best at keeping you alive. Deflecting a 10k melee hit vs turning that melee hit into 8k (at best); it's obvious which is better. I never said you couldn't use all three, but you seem to think that dark charge doing all the work, when it's not really.

 

My posts are not really arguing, they're more refuting your posts and examples. The reality is, this change will make very little difference at all. If anything.....

 

At 50 force, mid combat charge changing is a complete and utter waste of force and you shouldn't be doing it. The change to 100force is a buff for you people, because now you won't be doing things that make you worse.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Plexxx

[Astarica]

You can't switch equipment while in combat, so basically if Dark Charge mattered for survival it means it was something you could've tanked while wearing DPS gear for PvE.

[dyonas]

Your argument notwithstanding, all other stance-based classes will STILL be able to stance-dance after next patch, without losing all of their energy. Juggs, Powertechs, Marauders, etc., will still be able to do it. We will not. That's not fair. Either give us ours back, or nerf all of theirs as well. Otherwise it's just not an even playing field, even if we are bad.

 

I think this was the best point made in this thread. Call me good or bad but I never stance danced, mainly from a PvE perspective. But this post is accurate that the other classes should receive the same adjustment.