Heavy armor and DPS

[Aramand]

This is getting insane.

 

If a Jedi Guardian hits for 4600...they should no longer be able to use heavy armor and get the benefits from that.

 

As a Sith Sorcerer I get owned in a heart beat, but I can spam my attacks on a Guardian/juggernaught all day long and barely scratch them. They can easily kill me 3 times over before I could kill them once.

 

High Health, heavy armor and high DPS for guardians/juggernaughts makes them a formidable foe on the battlefield. This warrants some closer observation.

 

If a Sith Sorcerer wants to post a spec that can take down these bastards please feel free to post it so I can try it out.

 

As it stands using static barrier is doesn't absorb enough damage because we still die fast once it pops.

 

Armor should really not be effective against force powers.

[Syrellaris]

Learn to play man...Is all I can say. Ive seen DPS classes burn me down as a tank in les then 6 hits. but ey they know what to use!

[Evuke]

i don't understand how squishy operatives, who had to stealth, sneak, get behind target, drop a buff, trinket, pot, then backstab a target for 5k crit got nerfed to a point where they can barely break 2k.

 

but bw leave heavy armor wearers to have aoe's that crit for 4-5k

 

i guess that's why they call them failware

Edited February 5, 2012 by Evuke

[Labradoraki]

Learn to play man...Is all I can say. Ive seen DPS classes burn me down as a tank in les then 6 hits. but ey they know what to use!

 

Sorry dear but saying l2p to real issues that you have no comprehesion on and just think you know because you show one time or killed a noob doesnt count... You just do it to feel superior to those that you say l2p too... you rly have ego issues

[snaplemouton]

i don't understand how squishy operatives, who had to stealth, sneak, get behind target, drop a buff, trinket, pot, then backstab a target for 5k crit got nerfed to a point where they can barely break 2k.

 

but bw leave heavy armor wearers to have aoe's that crit for 4-5k

 

i guess that's why they call them failware

 

You are the type of people who say random stuff without knowing anything.

 

I have yet to get hit so hard by a jedi guardian. 4-5k is achievable by anything on a no PvP geared squishy target. That AoE also require preparation to be thrown in as well as the expertise buff, the adrenal and lot of other buffs to be that effective. And if a jedi guardian goes out of his way to do that, he'll be as easy to kill as a bantha without legs. That super AoE spec is crap. You give up on all your tanking abilities to deal no damage other then that AoE.

 

Now stop overreacting.

Jedi guardian is CRAP. They hit like wet noodles. Only thing they are good at is reducing damage for a VERY LIMITED amount of time.

 

EDIT : Oh hey! Nerf healer DPS too. They hit harder then jedi guardian. And Jedi guardian deal sooo much damage it's retarded.

I hitted someone for 3.5k with charged bolt on my combat medic. This is some retarded damage.

Edited February 5, 2012 by snaplemouton

[Syrellaris]

Sorry dear but saying l2p to real issues that you have no comprehesion on and just think you know because you show one time or killed a noob doesnt count... You just do it to feel superior to those that you say l2p too... you rly have ego issues

 

Right ofcourse, you are right. Not really, but whatever floats your boat. I do know what he is talking about, specially since I play a tank class. Guess What I wear! Heavy armor.

 

I also know how easy it is to kill a tank class, if you know what you are doing. This isnt an issue, its a Player issue.

[grizbi]

Yes, there's something wrong. A heavily tank specced character should not be able to do almost as much damage as a dps one. But It happens quite often.

 

I can live with that and still have fun with my Gunsliger but I noticed this trend lately. I suppose that those guys just have and "hybrid" spec that give them the best of both worlds : including basic tools to have ok dps. Since they can stay alive a lot more, they are able to do as much damage as a squishy dps during a match. And because 1v1 they are very good, we notice them more than other spec.

 

Is it game breaking ? not really, as long as they are only doing dps. If they could do a lot of things in the mean time, then it would be really annoying...(sorcerer anyone?)

 

Anyway, it's still a problem and it seems to be bad game design.

 

EDIT : I'm not speaking of aoe but both aoe and single target damage.

Edited February 6, 2012 by grizbi

[QuietGoneJinn]

Yes, there's something wrong. A heavily tank specced character should not be able to do almost as much damage as a dps one. But It happens quite often.

That's the problem with the Sith Warrior Class atm. Juggs can DPS and do comparable to their Marauder brothers, but Marauders could never come close to the Tanking abilities of a Jugg (No Heavy Armor or Skill Tree).

 

It begs the question, why even choose the Marauder spec at level 10, if Juggs can DPS and Tank. Talk about having your cake and eating it too! BW is supposed to be fixing the marauder class soon, hopefully they balance it out.

[TheNotorius]

Dispel Force Exhaustion - problem solved.

[CupieFoxtail]

Juggs can DPS and do comparable to their Marauder brothers, but Marauders could never come close to the Tanking abilities of a Jugg (No Heavy Armor or Skill Tree).

 

A bad marauder, maybe

[Pashgan]

failware

 

New name for Biofail? Nice!

[QuietGoneJinn]

A bad marauder, maybe

You didn't really read what I wrote, so I'll just reiterate: I said comparing a Jugg's DPS ability and a Mar's Tank ability is not feasible. I didn't say a Jugg could out-DPS a Marauder, just that they have the ability to create a decent DPS toon while the Marauder could NEVER create a decent (or semi-decent) Tank toon.

Edited February 6, 2012 by QuietGoneJinn

[Nazzeus]

ok, the issue your having here is that you aren't realize that if a person that is under geared with a few pieces of pvp gear or full pve gear, is gonna get hit A LOT harder than someone in full pvp gear, and since he is a melee class, that means if he is a battlemaster/has columi/rataka weapon, he defiantly can hit a under geared player for 4k+. dps and heavy armor dont matter and all, a dsp in heavy armor maybe has a 5% dmg reduction to kinetic and energy, unless they are a tank speced heavy armor then it doesn't make any difference that actually shows up, all i've really seen u QQ about the main portion of it is tat someone hit u for 4.5k, shut up and take it cause your obviously under geared or just don't know how to spec and kite, the person who said l2p, yes you do need to learn to play cause people like you are just complainers and whiners that have no idea how to read the spells they have and put the right ones on there bar.

[Syrellaris]

You didn't really read what I wrote, so I'll just reiterate: I said comparing a Jugg's DPS ability and a Mar's Tank ability is not feasible. I didn't say a Jugg could out-DPS a Marauder, just that they have the ability to create a decent DPS toon while the Marauder could NEVER create a decent (or semi-decent) Tank toon.

 

The difference with that is, that the Marauder has a pvp and 2 different DPS specs. A Juggernaut and any tank for that matter have a Tank spec, Tank pvp spec and 1 DPS spec. See the difference?

[Lerdoc]

Ah yes, legendary 31/31/31 spec OP is talking about.

 

L2P newbie.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Lerdoc

[tsupra]

Learn to play man...Is all I can say. Ive seen DPS classes burn me down as a tank in les then 6 hits. but ey they know what to use!

 

O com on,i exagerate quite often but this is a shame

[Syrellaris]

O com on,i exagerate quite often but this is a shame

 

its not a exaggeration at all. Okay, maybe it is 7 hits. But I do get burned quite easily. Remember, tanks do not have mitigation for Tech powers or Elemental damage. Those abilities will always hit for the max damage on us.

[QuietGoneJinn]

The difference with that is, that the Marauder has a pvp and 2 different DPS specs. A Juggernaut and any tank for that matter have a Tank spec, Tank pvp spec and 1 DPS spec. See the difference?

But still, all that Heavy Armor can allow a DPS speced Tank Jugg to have a great deal of survivability in addition to a decent amount of DPS. Sure they're not gonna out DPS a Marauder, but they've got a ton of Endurance to make up for it. Edited February 6, 2012 by QuietGoneJinn

[grizbi]

And now, we are going to have hordes of tanks coming to that thread screaming "L2P" with complex theorycraft stories and awesome ego. Enjoy!

[Syrellaris]

But still, all that Heavy Armor can allow a DPS speced Tank Jugg to have a great deal of survivability in addition to a decent amount of DPS. Sure they're not gonna out DPS a Marauder, but they've got a ton of Endurance to make up for it.

 

Thats what a Tank is. They gain health over damage, mitigation etc but hit like a wet noodle. If a tank is hitting you for 3K+ damage, then he is just out gearing you. At 50 this feat is very much noticeable. Specially if he is wearing BM and you are just sporting 1-2 pieces of Champion gear.

 

If he is specced in the DPS tree of his Tanking Advanced Class, he does not have the mitigation a real tank has, nor the damage absorption etc. They gain extra dps at the cost of defense and damage mitigation. A fair trade. Due to there gear they just have a lot of health (endurance points) and that way it may seem like he is hard to kill. It takes longer after all.

[tsupra]

its not a exaggeration at all. Okay, maybe it is 7 hits. But I do get burned quite easily. Remember, tanks do not have mitigation for Tech powers or Elemental damage. Those abilities will always hit for the max damage on us.

 

i am not familiar with snips/guns but i know what you cannot mitigate for60%+(before penetration talents)you can shield it

 

re edit:well not elemental but for sure a good amount of sn/gs abilities

 

imo running a tank with dps gear in this game is good,but a shield is a must

Edited February 6, 2012 by tsupra

[fungihoujo]

its not a exaggeration at all. Okay, maybe it is 7 hits. But I do get burned quite easily. Remember, tanks do not have mitigation for Tech powers or Elemental damage. Those abilities will always hit for the max damage on us.

 

There is some mitigation in buffs and talent tree- though not too much.

 

However, elemental and internal damage is pretty uncommon.

 

For example- a well specced sorc has affliction (a dot which isn't that much damage) and death field (15 sec CD, but does hit pretty hard- can crit up to 2.5k damage with luck). That's it though.

 

Anything that does energy or kinetic damage is mitigated fully by armour- people don't seem to understand that- it's only elemental/internal damage that bypasses everything but the 10% resistance buff.

[QuietGoneJinn]

Thats what a Tank is. They gain health over damage, mitigation etc but hit like a wet noodle. If a tank is hitting you for 3K+ damage, then he is just out gearing you. At 50 this feat is very much noticeable. Specially if he is wearing BM and you are just sporting 1-2 pieces of Champion gear.

 

If he is specced in the DPS tree of his Tanking Advanced Class, he does not have the mitigation a real tank has, nor the damage absorption etc. They gain extra dps at the cost of defense and damage mitigation. A fair trade. Due to there gear they just have a lot of health (endurance points) and that way it may seem like he is hard to kill. It takes longer after all.

And that brings us full circle to the point I originally made: Marauders don't have the same options available to them for Tanking. And even if they did have a Tank speced tree, they lack Heavy Armor so it wouldn't be fully utilized.

 

Just saying Juggs seem to have more options available to them than the Marauders.

 

tl;dr: You can make a Jugg that deals decent damage, but you can't make a Mar that can take decent damage.

Edited February 6, 2012 by QuietGoneJinn

[Catalan]

Yes, there's something wrong. A heavily tank specced character should not be able to do almost as much damage as a dps one. But It happens quite often.

 

They don't. If a Guardian wants to do the 4-5k aoe crits he has to spec Focus, which then prevents him from taking most tanking talents.

 

Also, to do the 4-5k crits he has to use Force Stasis beforehand, if you see him doing this (he will have to do this pretty close to the aoe attack), you know what he is going to do next.... If you don't know what he is going to do next, then you really need to get better at PvP.

[fungihoujo]

And that brings us full circle to the point I originally made: Marauders don't have the same options available to them for Tanking. And even if they did have a Tank speced tree, they lack Heavy Armor so it wouldn't be fully utilized.

 

Just saying Juggs seem to have more options available to them than the Marauders.

 

tl;dr: You can make a Jugg that deals decent damage, but you can't make a Mar that can take decent damage.

 

Marauders do more consistant dps, are great at locking down, and have a heal debuff.