The Frustrations Of Huttball

[McVade]

So I just finished a Huttball game where my team won 6-0 in about 10 minutes. I scored one of those by using Transcendence + Guarded by the Force. Yes, we're good ball runners, but that just doesn't change how frustrating their WZ is to play most of the time.

 

This last WZ, despite winning, was bar none the most obnoxious WZ I've played in weeks. Whether it's being stunned by a Jedi Knight (who then proceeds to run to get a health buff, something I can't tell you how much I'd love to be able to do), or being knocked off a bridge, then pushed into an acid pit and stunned (Lolresolve), each Huttball game just seems to be getting worse than the last as people learn their classes and get gear.

 

But most frustrating, really - it's the bridge knockdowns that put you in the other team's low level before their endzone. That's as good as a 15-20 second crowd control. Given how easy it is to do, it's - bar none - the most frustrating thing to recover from, especially since you probably won't have LoS.

 

For reasons like that, I'm convinced Huttball was designed to be a melee hell, but for Sentinels, they get it worse than any because they are lacking in basic utility that almost every other class gets.

 

* We have no pushes or pulls, and we're one of the only advanced classes without one or the other (the other is Scoundrel). Heck, Consulars/Inquisitors have *AoE* knockbacks which are good enough to knock every melee in a particular area out of the fight. And even if you save your Charge for that, you often don't have LoS on anyone to use it.

 

* We have no fire and forget stuns and almost every other advanced class gets one. The only stun we get is channeled, thus utilizing it strategically is tricky, especially on a platform with 5-6 other people. It's only a matter of time before someone does an AOE Knockback, blasting you off AND interrupting your stun. Or, my personal favorite, I stand their like a statue, choking this guy in anticipation of the coming fire... only for someone else to get position on ME and knock ME into the fire. Other guy gets out in time (since his stun ends when I get knocked back), and I'm the one who gets roasted.

 

How can someone design a map like Huttball and miss giving one class every tool that is particularly useful here? I just cannot see the balance.

 

One thing I want to add: This isn't a Sentinels are underpowered thread. The community is split on that notion already. I personally feel, with enough gear, we settle into a real good place in general PvP. My issue is more feeling absolutely disarmed in this particular map. I see most of the angles, being surrounded by 5 reds on a bridge, wishing to hell I could AoE push them ALL off, or - hell - I'd settle for just one. Fighting a keyboard turning Sorcerer near an acid pit who just lets me get whatever angle on him I want. Whether pulling or pushing, I could end this fight if I was any other advanced class in the game. Instead, I have to pray he can't figure out how to stun me, then move around me, and hit a knockback.

 

TLDR: Huttball sucks for melee classes. It sucks especially for those that have no pushes/pulls or fire-and-forget stuns. IE: Sentinels/Marauders.

Edited February 5, 2012 by McVade

[FobManX]

Spot on. I agree completely.

 

All I ask is for Force Push, or give us some kind of passive CC immunity.

 

Resolve actually working would be nice too.

[TipsyDrow]

I hate Hutball with a passion. Everytime I see the que come up as a hutball match I want to just quit, but I stick it out because quitting the group is a loser move. I really wish we had the choice to simply not be qued for the pathetic excuse of a minigame.

[FobManX]

I actually like Huttball, I just hate not being able to contribute as much as I'd like to. Nowadays I just move to the opposing team's top ledge, hope to cherry pick a pass, and pop Transcendence and rush in for an early cap. Usually on my server once a team gets a 1-0 lead the other team players will just start quitting(subsequently if you fall behind 1-0 your team will fall apart).

[Calouse]

I'll respond to this basically point by point. The Quoted text was too big for my liking.

 

You can stop people from healing. Leap, run ahead of them, and/or snare ,and/or Pbae mez. All tools that make that possible.

 

Let me ask you one question about your perfect melee hell scenario. What exactly can a ranged character do to deal with that situation that a melee can't? You've been pushed off by one of many CC's as a ranged. What are your options? Find someone to pass to. Run back to bridge. Die. Knight's options? Find enemy--or friend if a Guardian--leap target. Find someone to pass to. Run back to bridge. Die. Other than shield spec vanguards and whatever the BH spec is called, we have the best options for dealing with being knocked off bridges on offense and defense.

 

If one person manages to push every melee off the bridge then that player deserves the score he's looking to get. Multiple people. Every one of them is standing in a position to get knocked off? Positioning is very important in Huttball. Use the boxes, pillars, or position yourself to land on the bridge if knocked back.

 

If 5-6 mildly competent people are surrounding you, then you shouldn't be able to run it in anyway unless you've got support, in which case you should have others trying to knock them off as well. If you're alone you have the pbae Mez. It can be very useful, especially since it forces them to down their break if they want to deal with it quickly. You're also one of the few classes that could make it despite the number difference due to Guarded and your other defensive cooldowns.

 

Miss giving every tool that's particularly useful here? Really? All we are truly lacking in huttball is a knockback. Instead we have a leap which most don't have and a skill which is essentially a 5 second or so god mode. By this logic should we give every other class these highly useful Huttball skills as well? We have stuff they don't have. Seems balanced to me.

 

The ranged classes have it easier here for dpsing. They DO NOT have it easier for objective based play. They essentially function as support for us, the knights. Again, Vanguards are the exception.

 

Scoundrels are the ones I feel bad for in Huttball. Knock them off and you've literally turned them into dead weight until the ball resets.

[carnalraven]

So I just finished a Huttball game where my team won 6-0 in about 10 minutes. I scored one of those by using Transcendence + Guarded by the Force. Yes, we're good ball runs, but that just doesn't change how frustrating their WZ is to play most of the time.

 

This last WZ, despite winning, was bar none the most obnoxious WZ I've played in weeks. Whether it's being stunned by a Jedi Knight (who then proceeds to run to get a health buff, something I can't tell you how much I'd love to be able to do), or being knocked off a bridge, then pushed into an acid pit and stunned (Lolresolve), each Huttball game just seems to be getting worse than the last as people learn their classes and get gear.

 

But most frustrating, really - it's the bridge knockdowns that put you in the other team's low level before their endzone. That's as good as a 15-20 second crowd control. Given how easy it is to do, it's - bar none - the most frustrating thing to recover from, especially since you probably won't have LoS.

 

For reasons like that, I'm convinced Huttball was designed to be a melee hell, but for Sentinels, they get it worse than any because they are lacking in basic utility that almost every other class gets.

 

* We have no pushes or pulls, and we're one of the only advanced classes without one or the other (the other is Scoundrel). Heck, Consulars/Inquisitors have *AoE* knockbacks which are good enough to knock every melee in a particular area out of the fight. And even if you save your Charge for that, you often don't have LoS on anyone to use it.

 

* We have no fire and forget stuns and almost every other advanced class gets one. The only stun we get is channeled, thus utilizing it strategically is tricky, especially on a platform with 5-6 other people. It's only a matter of time before someone does an AOE Knockback, blasting you off AND interrupting your stun. Or, my personal favorite, I stand their like a statue, choking this guy in anticipation of the coming fire... only for someone else to get position on ME and knock ME into the fire. Other guy gets out in time (since his stun ends when I get knocked back), and I'm the one who gets roasted.

 

How can someone design a map like Huttball and miss giving one class every tool that is particularly useful here? I just cannot see the balance.

 

One thing I want to add: This isn't a Sentinels are underpowered thread. The community is split on that notion already. I personally feel, with enough gear, we settle into a real good place in general PvP. My issue is more feeling absolutely disarmed in this particular map. I see most of the angles, being surrounded by 5 reds on a bridge, wishing to hell I could AoE push them ALL off, or - hell - I'd settle for just one. Fighting a keyboard turning Sorcerer near an acid pit who just lets me get whatever angle on him I want. Whether pulling or pushing, I could end this fight if I was any other advanced class in the game. Instead, I have to pray he can't figure out how to stun me, then move around me, and hit a knockback.

 

TLDR: Huttball sucks for melee classes. It sucks especially for those that have no pushes/pulls or fire-and-forget stuns. IE: Sentinels/Marauders.

 

^^^^ agree and you stated it very well.

I really enjoy huttball but it is very very frustrating for sent... another thing that really suprises me is the range of force lightning.

 

Last night in a game I spent my entire match just trying to shut down this guy camping on a ledge and casting force lightning over and over..... what suprised me was how far it could reach of course when I go to try and shut him down I get knocked off and by the time I make it back to him he can knock me off again.

 

Still love the game but my war zone experience at this point = Stun lightning stun lightning knockback lightning lightning stun stun lightning lightning stun lightning stun knockback stun stun stun lightning lightning....

[Tokosteef]

Try playing as a Scoundrel.

We have a 1,5 sec stun, 4 sec stun and a break on dmg stun. Thats it. Its pure hell.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Tokosteef

[Bonezkc]

I'll respond to this basically point by point. The Quoted text was too big for my liking.

 

You can stop people from healing. Leap, run ahead of them, and/or snare ,and/or Pbae mez. All tools that make that possible.

 

Let me ask you one question about your perfect melee hell scenario. What exactly can a ranged character do to deal with that situation that a melee can't? You've been pushed off by one of many CC's as a ranged. What are your options? Find someone to pass to. Run back to bridge. Die. Knight's options? Find enemy--or friend if a Guardian--leap target. Find someone to pass to. Run back to bridge. Die. Other than shield spec vanguards and whatever the BH spec is called, we have the best options for dealing with being knocked off bridges on offense and defense.

 

If one person manages to push every melee off the bridge then that player deserves the score he's looking to get. Multiple people. Every one of them is standing in a position to get knocked off? Positioning is very important in Huttball. Use the boxes, pillars, or position yourself to land on the bridge if knocked back.

 

If 5-6 mildly competent people are surrounding you, then you shouldn't be able to run it in anyway unless you've got support, in which case you should have others trying to knock them off as well. If you're alone you have the pbae Mez. It can be very useful, especially since it forces them to down their break if they want to deal with it quickly. You're also one of the few classes that could make it despite the number difference due to Guarded and your other defensive cooldowns.

 

Miss giving every tool that's particularly useful here? Really? All we are truly lacking in huttball is a knockback. Instead we have a leap which most don't have and a skill which is essentially a 5 second or so god mode. By this logic should we give every other class these highly useful Huttball skills as well? We have stuff they don't have. Seems balanced to me.

 

The ranged classes have it easier here for dpsing. They DO NOT have it easier for objective based play. They essentially function as support for us, the knights. Again, Vanguards are the exception.

 

Scoundrels are the ones I feel bad for in Huttball. Knock them off and you've literally turned them into dead weight until the ball resets.

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I agree with the first post but I also understand the above poster's comment as well. I would luv a push back but being a Sent. I think its best if they stay close so a push back would be fun to watch people go flying but I would rather have something that pulled them to me instead and once they landed in front me they are stunned for 5 sec. this way I can do massive damage and take them out. Which i'm sure they would hate cause they force push us cause they know it will be a quick death if they don't give themselves some breathing room.

[RamzaBehoulve]

I don't know if you ever bothered playing those other classes you seem to think are that much better with their knockbacks and what not. I do, I've got a lvl 32 Assassin as well.

 

But I can tell you one thing, Force Leap is one of the most overpowered move in the entire game when it comes to Huttball.

 

You are probably so used to it now that you don't realize anymore how powerful it is, hence the need for you to go play something else for a bit who cannot move up the bridges however they want.

 

I don't find Hutball frustrating at all. It's my favorite Warzone and if I happen to be Combat spec during a match, the other team is very unlikely to score unless they manage a good pass.

 

All 3 specs have something good for Hutball, you need to capitalize on it. Focus has a 2nd Leap allowing you to go up the bridges, you just need a bit of practice since the range is lower than Force Leap. Watchman can Force Leap more often and Combat can root someone for up to 8-9s (you can pretty much ensure flame hell on anyone crossing it).

 

Pro-tip : the other team ALWAYS has someone stupid who will run from their respawn towards you in the pit. Leap to them at they try to reach you and you'll score 99% of the time. As Sentinel, I don't even bother going up the bridges anymore if I see their gate is about to open.

 

Stop using Force Leap to engage fights on the same level and you'll be much less frustrated.

 

The real suckers in Huttball are melee classes without Leap in my opinion.

Edited February 5, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[McVade]

Try playing as a Scoundrel.

We have a 1,5 sec stun, 4 sec stun and a break on dmg stun. Thats it. Its pure hell.

 

I will admit this: as bad as Sentinels have it in Huttball, Scoundrels have them beat hands down. I couldn't even begin to imagine this map as a melee dps without a Charge ability.

[gouak]

I will admit this: as bad as Sentinels have it in Huttball, Scoundrels have them beat hands down. I couldn't even begin to imagine this map as a melee dps without a Charge ability.

 

yes but they can auto attack from 30m!!!!!!!!!!

 

GODLY!

 

 

...

 

.....

 

oh wait!

[Dharagada]

Personally I'd rate a sentinal as probably one of the better melee dps specs for or at least middle of the pack for Huttball.

 

They are certainly above scoundrels.

 

I'd put their utility well above Vanguard DPS in Huttball, grapple is great, but it's impacted by resolve, and most vanguards will be assault specialist due to overall the tree being better than tactics, meaning they will have very poor mobility both to intercept the ball carrier even worse to carry the ball. They also lack the defensive cool downs of a sentinel for when they are focused down.

 

Shadows are a mixed bag. The get the force run and aoe knockback, and decent cc, but force leap is so very powerful in Huttbal for getting around I personally view them almost as tie or only giving a slight advantage to Shadows.

 

Then there are guardian dps and yeah they out perform sentinels just because they have two leaps and force push.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Dharagada

[Miraodus]

Perhaps part of your frustration is you're not utilizing Sentinel in Huttball properly. However, I'm not implying that you don't understand your class and/or how Huttball works.

 

What I mean by that is even if we have Blade Ward, Guarded by the Force, and Transcendence, Sentinels are not very good ball carriers due to having zero stuns and zero knockbacks or pulls. The way that I play in Huttball when I'm on my Sentinel is more of team support / ball mover with more of an opportunist type mentality.

 

It's hard to go into great detail but basically what I do (if someone happens to pass me the ball or if I feel I have an opening to pick it up from the center) is try to move the ball forward as much as I can before passing it off to a teammate who's in a better position. I do this by using any defensive cooldowns (if necessary) and popping Transcendence to help negate the snare effect from carrying the ball. As others in this thread have already mentioned, you can also utilize Force Leap / Zealous Leap on poorly positioned people as well.

 

When I'm not carrying the ball, I try to use Transcendence near teammates to help the ball carrier move quicker and help teammates get into a better position as quickly as possible. If I can manage to make it to the goal line, I'll stand there and try to cherry pick a goal as well. Most teammates will get stuck behind that last fire trap so atleast if I or another teammate are at the goal line, the ball carrier has an option to pass it instead of waiting ~6 seconds for the fire to die down - if they decide to wait that long, normally they are either dead or knocked off the catwalk / into the fire.

 

My biggest frustation with Huttball is that people don't seem to realize how the game should be played. Positioning and team awareness are the two key elements in Huttball. Once players learn that Huttball is actually the least combat-oriented warzone and learn how to move the ball effectively and efficiently, Huttball will become my personal favorite warzone. Until then, it's one big frustration going "pass pass pass!!" and the ball carrier either a) no clue where you are due to zero team awareness or b) doesn't even know they have a "pass huttball" ability or c) a and b. It's also frustrating when teams forget about the entire objective of Huttball and have a Team Deathmatch in one of the corners.

 

As as a last note, it's often hilarious when I see the "blob" of Imperials coming towards me, I'll throw the ball to a teammate and pop my defensive cooldowns (if available) and basically watch the Imps waste a precious 6-12 seconds trying to beat me down...only for them to realize that the ball is at the goal line and not on me. There's too many sheepies in Huttball, hence why the above tactic works 99% of the time. Also, don't be afraid to run through the fire if your health is not in danger. You may take half your life in damage but atleast you've moved the ball further and can potentially pass off the ball. This works even more effectively if you are a healing class or have something like Force Speed. Standing just before the fire and waiting is a recipe for death. Speaking of dying, if you are about to die - PASS the darn ball to a teammate!

 

TL;DR edition - IMO, Sentinels are not efficient ball carriers and should be utilized to move the ball up the field. Frustations - players not knowing how or when to pass the ball.

 

P.S. I'd rank Guardians/Juggernauts (especially the ones Unremitting) and Sage / Sorcerors as the top two Huttball players.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Miraodus

[Khanic]

I don't have too much trouble with my sentinel in huttball to be honest. Granted I am only level 28 and not 50 (which I can only imagen how much of a hell that would be in its own right) but I find force leap to be a huge helper in getting around the map. Either charging to the guy to stop him from grabbing the ball so I can grab it myself and toss to a team mate, or jumping back up onto a grate that I got knocked off of. The LoS problem with force leap is easily remedied by playing with the LoS mechanic on the map. I think the only time I've ever had problems with Los is if I'm in the pit and they are up on the upper catwalk where I can't seem to get a bead on them if they walk down the middle of the ramp.

 

Now I do agree with the above poster that Sents are not the best ball carriers though if you are play smart you can still run it in if no one else is around or if you have only one or two people attacking you. If I make it past the fire pit towards there goal line, I like to throw up saberward and Rebuke IF i'm being attacked. It is a nice combo to get to that goal line intact. Yeah the 20% less damage isnt much but it is better then nothing. Also if you do have the ball and get knocked down into their pit, look for someone on their ledge towards the goal line so you can force leap up. There is normally someone always there with their pistols or blaster rifle trying to plug away at you.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Khanic

[Brittaany_Banks]

Chain stunning and chain CCing are huge problems in this game. Huttball makes this glaringly apparent. There needs to be a stun immunity granted to a player after they have been stunned and a knock back immunity as well.

 

It is poor game design when you can be chain stunned 5, 6, 7 times in a row but yet have a stun break you can use once every 60 seconds. Pathetic.

[Neithian]

I find my success, or failure, in Huttball largely depends on the players in the warzone with me. If I am with a guild pre-made, or just happen to be lucky and get objective, in terms of scoring/defending, oriented players then the warzone usually ends up in a win and lots of kills/medals for the team I'm on.

 

If the players I am with have either no idea what they are doing, or are just kill focused then the team I am on usually fails miserably in terms of actually winning or getting medals. That doesn't meaning killing the other team isn't important of course, but if thats your only goal your team will lose and you yourself will not have an overly fun time of it.

 

I used to find Huttball difficult to play as a sentinel. It takes a lot of getting used to and you have to know what is going on around you at all times. For example saving leap for when you get knocked back off a ledge or into the acid/fire, not just using it to close the gap. Using force camo offensively goes a long way. Staggering your defensive cooldowns also helps alot. It is always funny to watch 3-4 people beat on me while I use guarded by the force, only to hit force camo+ transcendence and disappear leaving most of the opposition confused.

 

There are obviously some game design flaws/bugs but all of them (imo) can be worked around or circumvented by good play and awareness.

 

Finally picking "good" targets is extremely important. Targetting the guarded tank/heavy armor class is not a good idea. Look at the health bars in front of you before leaping in. Hit your relic+rebuke+overload saber(if watchmen) mid air and then melt the target. Targets at less then 75% or generally squishy(14k health and under) targets are great things to target and if you get rid of them quickly it can turn the tide of the fight in favor of your team.

 

TL;DR

 

Huttball is difficult, but if you learn to manage your skills such as force leap along with your defensive cooldowns and play team oriented it becomes far less painful to play.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Neithian

[FobManX]

My biggest frustation with Huttball is that people don't seem to realize how the game should be played. Positioning and team awareness are the two key elements in Huttball. Once players learn that Huttball is actually the least combat-oriented warzone and learn how to move the ball effectively and efficiently, Huttball will become my personal favorite warzone. Until then, it's one big frustration going "pass pass pass!!" and the ball carrier either a) no clue where you are due to zero team awareness or b) doesn't even know they have a "pass huttball" ability or c) a and b. It's also frustrating when teams forget about the entire objective of Huttball and have a Team Deathmatch in one of the corners.

 

Well said and I agree 100%. Huttball is a lot of fun when you're playing with people who have a clue. It's frustrating having to constantly tell people to pass. People don't seem to get that passing is a much more efficient method of moving the ball than running since you move so slow with the ball. Also, gotta get in FRONT of ball carriers. Don't stand on top of them or behind them. Best strat is to run ahead of a ball carrier past fire traps so you can pass it through them.