So after The Old Republic ends... Who wins?

[ShadowsOfAmn]

Unless GL has decided upon a major canon retcon, I assume that the entirety of SWTOR is actually a massive hiccup that will be forgotten like the vast majority of SW history until the modern era post-Legacy. I seem to remember how the Old Republic was so old no one remembered a dang thing about the hyperspace wars, the founding, or what happened before its founding. I mean come on, the Rakata Infinite Empire? Who remembers that in the modern era? And somehow it winds up that R2D2 knew everything he just kinda takes a long time to say oh, BTW- history 101. No, the consistently light side canon of the SW expanded universe will say something like "the Sith Empire briefly emerged from the fugue of history to temporarily overshadow the galaxy. A heroic effort on the part of those loyal to the republic and the Jedi Order pushed back against the darkness and broke the Sith Empire until the founding of the first Galactic Empire." Personally I liked the original trilogy but I say screw it in favor of a new SW continuum. SW was 30 years ago, sci fi has evolved sine then. Oh and if the new SW continuum does become reality, based on the fact the Imperials outdo the Republic by around 5:1, I'd say that new continuum becomes much darker and the Jedi are the ones who suffer near extinction for a few millenia. Where my fellow Imperials at? Can I get a amen?

 

I think the Expanded Universe is trying to stay true to George Lucas' original theme in the movies which is why the EU is mostly lightsided. The reason why no one talks about these events further back is because no one really gives much of a damn just like how in real life we rarely talk about Ancient Rome or Genghis Khan.

 

Are you suggesting to throw all the original canon out the window and start over like Star Trek did in 2009? Or form a new universe like they do every so often in DC Comics or Marvel? Then again, there is not much of difference in the two.

 

Either one isn't going to sit well with the fans or George Lucas who probably has a final say on all this. Lucas has said that the movies are the supreme canon. It would certainly give the Bioware writers more breathing room though but don't count on it.

 

What I think is a terrible and stupid idea is to just cater to the Imperial players simply based on the fact that there are more Imperial players. Any new continuity should have to stay true to the movies.

[AlyxDinas]

No, the consistently light side canon of the SW expanded universe will say something like "the Sith Empire briefly emerged from the fugue of history to temporarily overshadow the galaxy. A heroic effort on the part of those loyal to the republic and the Jedi Order pushed back against the darkness and broke the Sith Empire until the founding of the first Galactic Empire."

 

Except it doesn't even historically happen like that due to the advent of the New Sith Empire, the Brotherhood of Darkness and the Republic Dark Age. At some point within the intervening years, the resurgent Sith Empire of TOR has to be defeated by and/or integrated into the Republic at large. To the point that when Phanius brings about the Fourth Great Schism, his seeking of Sith knowledge is a big deal because the Sith have been functionally extinct for age.

[GusVIII]

The way I see it happening is both sides will eventually go back to total war, obviously. At some point the Emperor will be killed, for real this time, with the Sith government falling apart soon after. This will seem like a victory for the Republic, but eventually they'll find themselves facing numerous independent Sith states instead of one, unified enemy. The fighting will go on for centuries. The Repulic's territory will dwindle and a dark age or warring states period will set in.

 

Or the Empire could face total defeat and we actually might have a long period of peace until the New Sith Empire is established, but you can't build a good mmo around total peace. Especially when WAR is in the title.

Edited February 5, 2012 by GusVIII

[Jimudthesecond]

I think its obvious the down fall of the empire has really began once you hit 50 on the empire side. And I guess its the same on the republic side. But then again that could just be to make way for the new blood... But who knows! Only biowares writers

[DigiFluid]

Looks like there's a couple people here that know the EU well enough, and a few who haven't a clue....so:

 

 

WARNING: Lots of spoilers!

 

 

BBY = years Before the Battle of Yavin (Death Star battle, ANH)

 

 

Old Sith Wars

 

5000 BBY

• Great Hyperspace War
  
• First Sith Empire defeated by the Republic
  
• Republic bombs most worlds of the Sith Empire into extinction
  
• around this time, Sith Lord Vitiate (later, the Sith Emperor) leads the Sith survivors of the war into exile

 

4904 BBY

Sith Empire re-founded by the Sith Emperor on Dromund Kaas

 

4000 BBY

Exar Kun War

 

3976 BBY

Mandalorian Wars begin

 

3960 BBY

• Battle of Malachor V
  
• Revan slays Mandalore the Ultimate, who reveals he was tricked by the Sith
  
• Mandalorian Wars end
  
• Meetra Surik returns to the Jedi for judgement, is branded the Jedi Exile
  
• Revan and Malak discover the Sith Empire-in-exile, fall to the dark side
  
• Jedi Civil War begins

 

3956 BBY

• Knights of the Old Republic
  
• Jedi Civil War ends
  
• Sith Civil War begins

 

3955 BBY

Dark Wars begin

 

3954 BBY

• Revan sets out for the second time to find the hidden Sith Empire
  
• First Jedi Purge begins

 

3951 BBY

• Knights of the Old Republic II
  
• Sith Triumvirate defeated
  
• Dark Wars end
  
• First Jedi Purge ends

 

3950 BBY

• Sith Civil War ends
  
• Meetra Surik sets out in search of the missing Revan

 

 

 

The Old Republic period

 

3681 BBY

Great Galactic War begins

 

3671 BBY

Battle of Bothawui

 

3667 BBY

Sith Empire enlists the aid of the Mandalorians

 

3661 BBY

Mandalorian Blockade of the Hydian Way

 

3660 BBY

• Mandalorian Blockade is broken
  
• Battle of Alderaan

 

3653

• Sack of Coruscant
  
• Treaty of Coruscant signed
  
• Cold War begins

 

3643-3641 BBY

Span of The Old Republic

 

3641 BBY

End of game plots: the Cold War ends and open war is reignited.

 

? BBY

• Upcoming, as-yet-untitled fourth TOR novel that is set after the events of the game
  
• Sith Empire as we know it in TOR ceases to exist

 

3522 BBY

Desolous exiled from the Jedi for studying Sith teachings, becomes Darth Desolous before being defeated

 

 

New Sith Wars

 

ca. 2000 BBY

• Re-emergence of the Sith
  
• Darth Ruin incident
  
• New Sith Wars begin

 

1250 BBY

Sictis Wars begin

 

1230 BBY

Sictis Wars end

 

1032 BBY

Knight Errant material

 

ca. 1030 BBY

Second Sith Civil War begins

 

1010 BBY

• Second Sith Civil War ends
  
• Light and Darkness War begins

 

1000 BBY

• Darth Bane tricks Sith leadership into using Sith sorcery--the Thought Bomb--to destroy the Jedi on the planet. Without revealing that it would also kill and trap the Sith as well
  
• Sith are believed destroyed forever at the Seventh Battle of Ruusaan
  
• New Sith Wars end
  
• Ruusaan Reformations of the Republic are enacted. With the Sith threat seemingly destroyed forever, the Jedi surrender all military authority in the Republic permanently while the Republic scales back its military to near-non-existent
  
• In secret, Darth Bane enacts the Rule of Two. This would be the guiding philosophy of the Sith for the next thousand years; one master, one apprentice. No more.

Edited February 6, 2012 by DigiFluid

[DigiFluid]

And hey, for the hell of it...

 

 

 

 

Rise of the Empire & Rule of Two

 

67 BBY

• Hego Damask, Munn Sith apprentice Darth Plagueis, slays his master Darth Tenebrous and becomes sole Dark Lord of the Sith

 

ca. 54-52 BBY

• Darth Plagueis takes Palpatine on as his apprentice, naming him Darth Sidious
  
• Darth Sidious, at his master's urging, 'adopts' and takes on Maul as his own apprentice

 

32 BBY

• Carrying on a conversation from years earlier, Hego Damask (Plagueis) urges Jedi Sifo-Dyas to commission a clone army to protect the Republic (he does so)
  
• Naboo Crisis, manufactured by Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious
  
• Darth Maul attacks Qui-Gon, revealing the Sith to the Jedi in earnest for the first time in a thousand years
  
• Darth Maul killed by Obi-Wan on Naboo
  
• Senator Palpatine elected Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, placing a Sith secretly in charge of the Republic
  
• Sidious slays Plagueis
  
• Jedi Master Dooku leaves the Order, citing it and the Republic both as ineffectual and corrupt
  
• Dooku and Palpatine strike up a relationship, resulting in Sith apprenticeship within the year
  
• Dooku, now Darth Tyranus, slays his old friend Sifo-Dyas, as a test of loyalty to Sidious
  
• Dooku takes over the Kamino clone project, hiring Mandalorian Jango Fett as the genetic template for the clone army

 

ca. 32-22 BBY

• Clone army born, grown and trained
  
• Sith stoke the already-existing flames of malcontent in the Republic

 

22 BBY

• Obi-Wan discovers the clone army on Kamino
  
• Count Dooku--Darth Tyranus--openly declares the secession of the Confederacy from the Republic
  
• Jango Fett killed on Geonosis
  
• Clone Wars begin

 

19 BBY

• Anakin Skywalker murders Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus, at Chancellor Palpatine's urging
  
• Jedi betray the Republic and are branded outlaws
  
• Order 66 enacted
  
• Anakin falls to the Dark Side, becoming Darth Vader
  
• Great Jedi Purge begins
  
• Clone Wars end
  
• Galactic Republic reorganized into the Galactic Empire

Edited February 6, 2012 by DigiFluid

[elaverick]

I think the real end of the Sith Empire from the TOR era will be the death of Darth Vitiate.

Having said that, part of me wonders whether they might keep him alive until the events of the films and reveal him as the real power behind Palpatine's throne.

[DigiFluid]

I think the real end of the Sith Empire from the TOR era will be the death of Darth Vitiate.

Having said that, part of me wonders whether they might keep him alive until the events of the films and reveal him as the real power behind Palpatine's throne.

 

I wouldn't count on that. The Darth Plagueis book mentions Vitiate in passing as a Sith from long past.

[elaverick]

I wouldn't count on that. The Darth Plagueis book mentions Vitiate in passing as a Sith from long past.

 

Yeah I saw that after having a look through Wookiepedia. I'm hoping that he does die in this time frame, rather than ANH or beyond. While there's a lot of talk on the forums about various classes being OP, so far no one seems to complain about an undying Sith Lord who eats entire planets...

 

- Edit -

 

Nice timeline summary btw.

Edited February 6, 2012 by elaverick

[DigiFluid]

Yeah I saw that after having a look through Wookiepedia. I'm hoping that he does die in this time frame, rather than ANH or beyond. While there's a lot of talk on the forums about various classes being OP, so far no one seems to complain about an undying Sith Lord who eats entire planets...

:lol: Yeah, indeed. That and that it seems at some point in the Jedi quest you fight him....a Jedi who's on par with a planet-devouring Sith, who's not the most powerful Jedi in history? Hmm...

 

 

 

- Edit -

 

Nice timeline summary btw.

Thanks

[undeadsithdread]

Darth ruin sith empire

 

 

"There is no passion…there is solely obsession.

There is no knowledge. There is solely conviction.

There is no purpose. There is solely will.

There is nothing…

Only me."

―The creed of Ruin

[Rayla_Felana]

War will go back and forth, but I think in the end the Empire should win, simply because the Republic has won every war it has ever been in, also to make Darth Sidious' statement about 'Once More the Sith will rule the galaxy', a true statement, as that is a glaring EU plothole.

[Ravager]

Thanks for posting the timeline, DigiFluid - I was about to do something similar.

 

Anyway, as we all now know, the Sith Empire as we know it in TOR ceases to exist by the New Sith Wars, where Darth Ruin rises and creates a New Sith Empire entirely unrelated to the the one in the Great Galactic War. It is also mentioned that Darth Desolous, a former Jedi who falls to the dark side, becomes the "Dark Lord of the Sith" at his time during 3,522 BBY, so the Sith Empire probably falls before this as well.

 

In the "Art of The Old Republic" book, there is a mention that the Republic and Empire eventually merge, which acts as an explanation to why the later works seem to have a mix of the Republic and Empire's technology. Before the game was released, it was also mentioned by one of the writers that the Empire's accent would later become the Core Worlds accent as Imperials migrated towards the Core (the post was erased during the wipe, sorry!).

 

Therefore, I am pretty sure that we can assume the two eventually merge - whether this is under the banner of the Republic or a compromise between the Empire and the Republic, we do not know (there are no records of the Sith Empire after this period, so I assume the Republic absorbs it).

 

It is my personal opinion that the Republic will win this war, and it will be during the lifespans of our characters; I would bet that BioWare wants us to be the deciding factor of this war.

 

War will go back and forth, but I think in the end the Empire should win, simply because the Republic has won every war it has ever been in, also to make Darth Sidious' statement about 'Once More the Sith will rule the galaxy', a true statement, as that is a glaring EU plothole.

 

This statement has generally been attributed to the New Sith Empire's control of most of the galaxy during the later years of the New Sith Wars.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Ravager

[wallywaffles]

Major endgame spoilers.

 

 

As a trooper, I've destroyed seemingly countless superweapons, reignited the war, and won the war (as well as defeating the "new Empire" led by Malgus at Ilum). We also defeated the Emperor (JK story), though we know that's probably another avatar from the Sith storyline. So for now, the Republic has "won", but it wouldn't be hard for the Empire to regroup again.

 

The Sith are stronger in power, they just fight too much amongst themselves, which is what made Malgus such a serious threat. I'd be kinda disappointed if they just resurrected Malgus like Vitiate but a future content update will hopefully extend the story line

 

 

Overall, pretty much like everyone said. The Republic will win in the end following the past light side canons, but probably incorporates the Empire into itself (maybe just the troops, probably not the Sith).

Edited February 6, 2012 by wallywaffles

[Girdeux]

War will go back and forth, but I think in the end the Empire should win, simply because the Republic has won every war it has ever been in, also to make Darth Sidious' statement about 'Once More the Sith will rule the galaxy', a true statement, as that is a glaring EU plothole.

 

Its not a plot hole at all and has already been explained by Lucas...The Sith Knights were created by a fallen jedi 2000 years before the movies and eventually ruled the galaxy for a LONG time till BBY 1000 when the Old republic was created.

 

The Sith Empire from TOR doesnt last long at all..Since the next lore piece is around 150 years from now

[Lightmaguz]

Looks like there's a couple people here that know the EU well enough, and a few who haven't a clue....so:

 

 

WARNING: Lots of spoilers!

 

 

BBY = years Before the Battle of Yavin (Death Star battle, ANH)

 

 

Old Sith Wars

 

5000 BBY

• Great Hyperspace War
  
• First Sith Empire defeated by the Republic
  
• Republic bombs most worlds of the Sith Empire into extinction
  
• around this time, Sith Lord Vitiate (later, the Sith Emperor) leads the Sith survivors of the war into exile

 

4904 BBY

Sith Empire re-founded by the Sith Emperor on Dromund Kaas

 

4000 BBY

Exar Kun War

 

3976 BBY

Mandalorian Wars begin

 

3960 BBY

• Battle of Malachor V
  
• Revan slays Mandalore the Ultimate, who reveals he was tricked by the Sith
  
• Mandalorian Wars end
  
• Meetra Surik returns to the Jedi for judgement, is branded the Jedi Exile
  
• Revan and Malak discover the Sith Empire-in-exile, fall to the dark side
  
• Jedi Civil War begins

 

3956 BBY

• Knights of the Old Republic
  
• Jedi Civil War ends
  
• Sith Civil War begins

 

3955 BBY

Dark Wars begin

 

3954 BBY

• Revan sets out for the second time to find the hidden Sith Empire
  
• First Jedi Purge begins

 

3951 BBY

• Knights of the Old Republic II
  
• Sith Triumvirate defeated
  
• Dark Wars end
  
• First Jedi Purge ends

 

3950 BBY

• Sith Civil War ends
  
• Meetra Surik sets out in search of the missing Revan

 

 

 

The Old Republic period

 

3681 BBY

Great Galactic War begins

 

3671 BBY

Battle of Bothawui

 

3667 BBY

Sith Empire enlists the aid of the Mandalorians

 

3661 BBY

Mandalorian Blockade of the Hydian Way

 

3660 BBY

• Mandalorian Blockade is broken
  
• Battle of Alderaan

 

3653

• Sack of Coruscant
  
• Treaty of Coruscant signed
  
• Cold War begins

 

3643-3641 BBY

Span of The Old Republic

 

3641 BBY

End of game plots: the Cold War ends and open war is reignited.

 

? BBY

• Upcoming, as-yet-untitled fourth TOR novel that is set after the events of the game
  
• Sith Empire as we know it in TOR ceases to exist

 

3522 BBY

Desolous exiled from the Jedi for studying Sith teachings, becomes Darth Desolous before being defeated

 

 

New Sith Wars

 

ca. 2000 BBY

• Re-emergence of the Sith
  
• Darth Ruin incident
  
• New Sith Wars begin

 

1250 BBY

Sictis Wars begin

 

1230 BBY

Sictis Wars end

 

1032 BBY

Knight Errant material

 

ca. 1030 BBY

Second Sith Civil War begins

 

1010 BBY

• Second Sith Civil War ends
  
• Light and Darkness War begins

 

1000 BBY

• Darth Bane tricks Sith leadership into using Sith sorcery--the Thought Bomb--to destroy the Jedi on the planet. Without revealing that it would also kill and trap the Sith as well
  
• Sith are believed destroyed forever at the Seventh Battle of Ruusaan
  
• New Sith Wars end
  
• Ruusaan Reformations of the Republic are enacted. With the Sith threat seemingly destroyed forever, the Jedi surrender all military authority in the Republic permanently while the Republic scales back its military to near-non-existent
  
• In secret, Darth Bane enacts the Rule of Two. This would be the guiding philosophy of the Sith for the next thousand years; one master, one apprentice. No more.

 

I was going to post a mostly tldr but he made my life easier, what this man said.

 

 

I think the real end of the Sith Empire from the TOR era will be the death of Darth Vitiate.

Having said that, part of me wonders whether they might keep him alive until the events of the films and reveal him as the real power behind Palpatine's throne.

 

No, he's dead.

 

 

Jedi Knight kills him or the debri kills him, either way he's dead unless he can transfer his body to another body(Palpatine could so it wouldn't be completely out of character.)

 

[Natherillen]

I was going to post a mostly tldr but he made my life easier, what this man said.

 

 

 

 

No, he's dead.

 

 

Jedi Knight kills him or the debri kills him, either way he's dead unless he can transfer his body to another body(Palpatine could so it wouldn't be completely out of character.)

 

He did.

[Girdeux]

He did.

 

The Knight kills the VOICE of the emperor, completely different then killing his actual real body.

[Deviss]

The Empire will win imo, but the Republic while weakened and scattered will prevail and in the end win. It will be just like in all american action movies - good guy needs to be beaten up first in order to pwn the bad guy later on.

[Cburkejr]

 

32 BBY

• Carrying on a conversation from years earlier, Hego Damask (Plagueis) urges Jedi Sifo-Dyas to commission a clone army to protect the Republic (he does so)
  
• Naboo Crisis, manufactured by Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious
  
• Darth Maul attacks Qui-Gon, revealing the Sith to the Jedi in earnest for the first time in a thousand years
  
• Darth Maul killed by Obi-Wan on Naboo
  
• Senator Palpatine elected Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, placing a Sith secretly in charge of the Republic
  
• Sidious slays Plagueis
  

 

 

Is there a book or comic with Sidious killing Plagueis? I thought he killed him way before this

Edited February 6, 2012 by Cburkejr

[Rouge]

Is there a book or comic with Sidious killing Plagueis? I thought he killed him way before this

 

Darth Plagueis by Luceno, was published about five weeks ago.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Rouge

[DigiFluid]

Yeah, what Rouge said. It happens in the Darth Plagueis novel that came out about a month ago. It's a little scatterbrained, but it's interesting in how it enriches the backstory Episode I. And god knows, that movie needs as much enriching as it can get.

[Bewoulff]

Looks like there's a couple people here that know the EU well enough, and a few who haven't a clue....so:

 

 

WARNING: Lots of spoilers!

 

 

[*]Sith are believed destroyed forever at the Seventh Battle of Ruusaan

[*]New Sith Wars end

[*]Ruusaan Reformations of the Republic are enacted. With the Sith threat seemingly destroyed forever, the Jedi surrender all military authority in the Republic permanently while the Republic scales back its military to near-non-existent

[*]In secret, Darth Bane enacts the Rule of Two. This would be the guiding philosophy of the Sith for the next thousand years; one master, one apprentice. No more.

 

Here's my one question, maybe you just have this in the wrong order but...

 

If the sith are believed dead BEFORE darth bane enacts the rule of two, why do Mace windu and Yoda know so much about it?

[DigiFluid]

That's still vague, unfortunately, and not exactly explained. The Darth Plagueis novel mentions a Darth Gravid, who was inexplicably drawn to the light and believed that mercy and compassion could have a place in the grand design of the Sith. It's implied that he somehow revealed the existence of the Sith to the Jedi, without providing many (any) details.

 

Needless to say, Gravid's apprentice killed him and the trail went cold.

[clintcasey]

There is a gap of around 1500 years between now and the 4th Great Schism.

 

The 4th Great Schism gives birth to yet another Sith Empire, but those Sith are actually descended former Jedi who take up the philosophy of the old Sith Empire.

 

There is a war that last for 1,000 years which represents a large Republic Dark Age where much of their technology was lost again. This is part of the reason why technologically SW:TOR and the Movies are so close in Technology.

 

The 1,000 year war eventually ends when Darth Bane begins to wipes out all the other Sith and begins the Rule of 2, which eventually culminates in Palpatine becoming Emperor.

 

Point is, there is about 1,500 year window that the game has available to operate with. During the next 1,500 years the Sith will be wiped out, the Empire will be mostly destroyed. It is likely that there will be some survivors of the Empire, and territory controlled by the Empire will eventually become the Republic's yet again.