Wanted Vanguard Changes

[Kirunnah]

Vanguards seem to have a lot of talents and a few extra (talented) melee abilities. The basic point of a vanguard is that he uses a blaster rifle and tanks/dps fully from ranged, His most powerful attacks therefore should be ranged. With the exception of the Tactics tree.

 

I have considered this and designed a change.

 

General Changes (No gear equipped):

 

Explosive Round:

Fires a heavy round that deals 286 - 295 kinetic damage to the primary target and 198 - 233 kinetic damage to up to 3 targets within 5 meters. If the primary target is a weak or standard enemy, it is knocked to the ground.

 

The live secondary effect is very weak and considering the ability costs 3 ammo is better not used at all. This change gives tanks better ranged AoE (useful for picking up spawned adds) or dps a better AoE output. But not at all overpowered.

 

Ion Pulse: range increased to 30 meters up from 10.

 

Riot Strike: range increased to 10 meters up from 4.

 

 

Talent Changes:

 

Defense:

 

Static Shield:

Increases the critical chance of Explosive Round and Explosive Surge by [15 / 30]%. In addition, shielding an attack has a [25 / 50]% chance to increase the damage of your next Ion Pulse by 50%. This effect cannot occur more than once every 4.5 seconds.

 

Static Surge:

Increases the critical strike bonus damage of Explosive Round and Explosive Surge by [ 15 / 30]%.

 

Tactics:

 

No changes

 

Assault:

 

Ionic Accelerator:

Ion Pulse has a [10 / 20 / 30]% chance and Full Auto has a [15 / 30 / 45]% chance to finish the cooldown on High Impact Bolt and make the next High Impact Bolt free.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Kirunnah

[Zunayson]

Umm, Harpoon and Storm - switch. Harpoon gens high threat, so is very tankish, but Storm is useful to both tactics and shield spec

 

Ion pulse, being a vanguard move, should not be raised, in my opinion. Having a melee-only interrupt does suck indeed, however a tank's storm + all vanguards harpoon give them a secondary interrupt. Not to mention Cryo grenade.

 

Sort of +1 on the interrupt, though

 

Commandos are ranged. Vanguards are basically melee. Even the tank spec's 21 pnt talent in Shield Spec is a gap closer the quality of Force Leap. Most powerful abilities (And ALL vanguard-exclusive abilities) should be 10m ranged. General trooper abilities should be 30m.

 

That's just my opinion, of course.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Zunayson

[Husofanten]

The only thing we need is a shotgun instead of that blaster rifle

[Dannicus]

What are you using Explosive Round for? That's the first ability a Vanguard should STOP using. You replace it with Ion Pulse. Leveling up as a shield spec, your ideas for changes are completely misguided.

 

The only thing Vanguards really need is for Storm to be available as a base Vanguard skill rather than a shield spec talent because we're a close-range class. As the above poster said, maybe Harpoon should become the talent, instead, because not every Vanguard is running with Ion Cell and playing tank.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Dannicus

[Loveshock]

make tactics not boring as hell.

[Omegix]

• Get rid of the cast time on cells.
  
• Change High Impact Bolt to Kinetic damage.
  
• Reduce the ammo cost of Incendiary Round to 2.
  
• Buff the Tactics tree to put the damage in line with the Assault tree.
  

 

All I can think of right now.

[atheelogos]

they just need to change it to a ranged tank. I don't see why someone with gun would be melee tank

[aRtFuL]

 

Tactics:

 

No changes

 

Tactics actually needs A LOT of changes.

 

Starting with Fire Pulse.

 

Fire Pulse is almost a pointless ability. It rarely hits much harder than Ion Pulse, even though it does elemental damage. Assault Plastique hits a lot harder all the time in comparison.

[Kirunnah]

Quote 1:

Umm, Harpoon and Storm - switch. Harpoon gens high threat, so is very tankish, but Storm is useful to both tactics and shield spec

 

Ion pulse, being a vanguard move, should not be raised, in my opinion. Having a melee-only interrupt does suck indeed, however a tank's storm + all vanguards harpoon give them a secondary interrupt. Not to mention Cryo grenade.

 

Quote 2:

What are you using Explosive Round for? That's the first ability a Vanguard should STOP using. You replace it with Ion Pulse.

 

 

Reply to quote 1:

Harpoon and Cryo grenade cannot be used on bosses. Using strom works, however you need to be ranged from the target which is my point to be fully ranged

 

Reply to quote 2:

Why am I using explosive round? Im not because as you said its useless, Replaced with Ion-Pulse not really its canneled not instant and only a 10m range. I only requested that E-Round became alot more useful. If buffed it would be a perfect 30m 3 adds just spawned over there I want to pick all 3 up quickly ability.

 

And just throwing a spanner into the works here but, Out of all the technology in Star Wars all the lasers, missiles, photon torpedoes etc the vangurds most powerful attack is to hit something over the head with your gun hehe

 

And my ideas where based on the tanking role didnt intent to say that tactics is fine :0

Edited February 5, 2012 by Kirunnah

[gofortheko]

Um they do have a range Trooper, its called commando. Troopers are NOT a range tank, they are a MELEE tank with range abilities. I dont want a range class, if I did I would have went commando.

[juanni]

Vanguard is fine, for DPS and tanking.

 

Also, Ion Pulse 30m? No way that would EVER happen.

[kajind]

the problem with giving full auto a chance to reset the damage on HIB is that it is dependent on wep damage, therefor we would always be second class to the commando, i would say give this to stickey gernade or AP instead of stockstrike or full auto

 

Edit: also i dont see IP getting put to 30m but it would be nice to have it be like 15

Edited February 5, 2012 by kajind

[VragonBral]

Quote 1:

 

And just throwing a spanner into the works here but, Out of all the technology in Star Wars all the lasers, missiles, photon torpedoes etc the vangurds most powerful attack is to hit something over the head with your gun hehe

 

Nothing beats the ol'buttstock-to-the-face trick...Hehe. Gets them every time!

[Zunayson]

• Get rid of the cast time on cells.
  
• Change High Impact Bolt to Kinetic damage.
  
• Reduce the ammo cost of Incendiary Round to 2.
  
• Buff the Tactics tree to put the damage in line with the Assault tree.
  

 

All I can think of right now.

Making incendiary round only cost 2 ammo would make it worse than gut. Gut does more upfront damage, costs less ammo, but is melee.

 

This would make it better as opposed to more equal. but I still like Gut better.

[Zunayson]

Quote 1:

Umm, Harpoon and Storm - switch. Harpoon gens high threat, so is very tankish, but Storm is useful to both tactics and shield spec

 

Ion pulse, being a vanguard move, should not be raised, in my opinion. Having a melee-only interrupt does suck indeed, however a tank's storm + all vanguards harpoon give them a secondary interrupt. Not to mention Cryo grenade.

 

Quote 2:

What are you using Explosive Round for? That's the first ability a Vanguard should STOP using. You replace it with Ion Pulse.

 

 

Reply to quote 1:

Harpoon and Cryo grenade cannot be used on bosses. Using strom works, however you need to be ranged from the target which is my point to be fully ranged

 

Reply to quote 2:

Why am I using explosive round? Im not because as you said its useless, Replaced with Ion-Pulse not really its canneled not instant and only a 10m range. I only requested that E-Round became alot more useful. If buffed it would be a perfect 30m 3 adds just spawned over there I want to pick all 3 up quickly ability.

 

And just throwing a spanner into the works here but, Out of all the technology in Star Wars all the lasers, missiles, photon torpedoes etc the vangurds most powerful attack is to hit something over the head with your gun hehe

 

And my ideas where based on the tanking role didnt intent to say that tactics is fine :0

 

My rebuttal, as I wrote Quote 1, reqardless, Storm doesn't generate as high threat. Furthermore, the fact that Tactic's 11 pnt talent is MELEE, and our interrupt is MELEE and we have our Ion Pulse is MID RANGE (Same does for Plasma Pulse), etc, etc. means we're close ranged, and thus we cannot close gaps as easy as Jedi Knights with Harpoon (Even with a 35 sec. talented CD). Replacing storm with harpoon will also lower the crying as Harpoon is a very very very annoying ability if you're the one being Harpoon'd.

[Mashien]

Quote 1:

Umm, Harpoon and Storm - switch. Harpoon gens high threat, so is very tankish, but Storm is useful to both tactics and shield spec

 

Ion pulse, being a vanguard move, should not be raised, in my opinion. Having a melee-only interrupt does suck indeed, however a tank's storm + all vanguards harpoon give them a secondary interrupt. Not to mention Cryo grenade.

 

Quote 2:

What are you using Explosive Round for? That's the first ability a Vanguard should STOP using. You replace it with Ion Pulse.

 

 

Reply to quote 1:

Harpoon and Cryo grenade cannot be used on bosses. Using strom works, however you need to be ranged from the target which is my point to be fully ranged

 

Reply to quote 2:

Why am I using explosive round? Im not because as you said its useless, Replaced with Ion-Pulse not really its canneled not instant and only a 10m range. I only requested that E-Round became alot more useful. If buffed it would be a perfect 30m 3 adds just spawned over there I want to pick all 3 up quickly ability.

 

And just throwing a spanner into the works here but, Out of all the technology in Star Wars all the lasers, missiles, photon torpedoes etc the vangurds most powerful attack is to hit something over the head with your gun hehe

 

And my ideas where based on the tanking role didnt intent to say that tactics is fine :0

 

Quote 2 ...

 

Ion Pulse chanelled? sure you dont mean Pulse Canon?

 

3 mobs just spawned, storm, explosive surge. Surge adds the 4% ion debuff and if you went far enough into the SS tree estabilishes solid threat.

 

Ion Pulse really doesn't need a range extend, its 10m range works well with tanking.

 

Our most powerful attack is a melee strike because we are essentially a melee class with a gun, the best of both worlds.

 

I would like to see harpoon and storm reversed to make storm a base ability.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Mashien

[Zakmonster]

Explosive Round is a fairly useless ability and I haven't used it since I got Ion Pulse.

 

Also, the very idea of being a ranged tank is rather pointless, as melee enemies will run at you and engage you in melee anyway. We have plenty of tools to deal with ranged mobs and I prefer the current versatility than to make us pure 'ranged tanks'.

 

Also, Stockstrike is a wonderful ability and I don't want it removed from my rotation, or have its usefulness reduced by changing talents around. While I understand that some of you have conceptual problems with Stockstrike, changing it to another hard-hitting 10m range ability is far more attractive than attempting to improve Explosive Round and Full Auto (the latter is hardly better than Hammer Shot and Hammer Shot doesn't cost ammo/can be used on the move).

 

 

 

tl;dr I don't want any of these changes, but please make the Tactics tree better.

[va_wanderer]

Vanguards seem to have a lot of talents and a few extra (talented) melee abilities. The basic point of a vanguard is that he uses a blaster rifle and tanks/dps fully from ranged, His most powerful attacks therefore should be ranged. With the exception of the Tactics tree.

 

I have considered this and designed a change.

 

General Changes (No gear equipped):

 

Explosive Round:

Fires a heavy round that deals 286 - 295 kinetic damage to the primary target and 198 - 233 kinetic damage to up to 3 targets within 5 meters. If the primary target is a weak or standard enemy, it is knocked to the ground.

 

The live secondary effect is very weak and considering the ability costs 3 ammo is better not used at all. This change gives tanks better ranged AoE (useful for picking up spawned adds) or dps a better AoE output. But not at all overpowered.

 

Ion Pulse: range increased to 30 meters up from 10.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing something that reduced ER's cost as an Assault talent and had Assault Trooper enhance it's critical bonus. Ion Pulse with a 30m range would be incredibly broken, seeing as it's the auto-snare ability for Assault and also a proccer for refreshing HIB. Being able to IR -> HIB -> IP spam ->HIB from max range would be be insanely good. At most, talented to 15m and while we're at it, the same talent upped Pulse Cannon's cone to 15m as well.

 

Riot Strike: range increased to 10 meters up from 4.

 

I don't mind the in-your-face nature of interrupting, considering it's slapping someone with a rifle. 10m is, once again too much reach for the ability.

 

Talent Changes:

 

 

Assault:

 

Ionic Accelerator:

Ion Pulse has a [10 / 20 / 30]% chance and Full Auto has a [15 / 30 / 45]% chance to finish the cooldown on High Impact Bolt and make the next High Impact Bolt free.

 

I'd rather swap the odds between Stockstrike and Ion Pulse here, if only because it'd give us more reason not to have every Vanguard beating on opponents with the backside of their rifle to optimize DPS. It already feels good when the RNG gods are with me and I go running in with IR -> HIB (close to 10m) -> IP -> HIB -> IP -> HIB -> IP -> HIB (yes, I've gotten three Accelerator procs in a row with Pulse...). Full Auto is usually more handy for the Commando, since it's a refresh ability for them. Pulse/Stockstrike gives Vanguards two good choices to refresh HIB with. Alternatively, make it Ion Pulse and Pulse Cannon instead.

Edited February 6, 2012 by va_wanderer

[Cavadus]

Umm, Harpoon and Storm - switch.

 

Hell no.

[Flotsam]

OP is crazy.

 

Stockstrike is awesome, and I would not want it replaced with IP in the rotation.

 

The only change I would like to see is Mortar Volley animation fixed.

 

However, maybe a few tweaks wouldn't be bad... defined by tree

 

Make Shield Spec: Focus on being hit... make things happen from being hit... make that the focus of the spec

 

Make Tactics: Control (Through movment/CC/interrupts) and Intenral damage.. up the single target

 

Make Make Arsenal: It is actually pretty nice... Elemental damage... I would up the AE damage

[Cavadus]

Some things to make ER better would be nice as it's only saving-grace is that it's a 30m ammo-dump.

 

I really do wish IP was a 30m attack though; that one change alone would go a very long ways towards making our AC a truly ranged tank class.

[va_wanderer]

Some things to make ER better would be nice as it's only saving-grace is that it's a 30m ammo-dump.

 

I really do wish IP was a 30m attack though; that one change alone would go a very long ways towards making our AC a truly ranged tank class.

 

It'd also mean we could spam snares all the way out to max weapon range, which would be delightful...and probably broken. As it is, you can manage to park yourself at 10m and do your best impression of a Tesla coil.

 

Explosive Round is under-useful. High ammo cost, low potency AoE. It's only real saving grace is dealing with multiple weak targets in a hurry that you need to interrupt Right Now from range. But we all know that. I wish we could get some benefits to it from talents- even frickin' Hammer Shot gets more use from them than poor unloved Explosive Round.

[Cavadus]

It'd also mean we could spam snares all the way out to max weapon range, which would be delightful...and probably broken.

 

You can already do this with both Ion and Plasma Cells if you dump the point into the snare talent.

 

/shrug

 

At any rate, just remove the snare talent if it's an issue.

[Psnacky]

Vanguards are a melee class. We already have relatively strong ranged capabilities, why do we need more?

[va_wanderer]

You can already do this with both Ion and Plasma Cells if you dump the point into the snare talent.

 

/shrug

 

At any rate, just remove the snare talent if it's an issue.

 

Actually, you can't 100% snare at 30 meters with either. Talented, Ion Pulse will do it 100% from 10m, Stockstrike with Ion Cell (again, talented) will do it at point-blank.

 

At 30m, you're relying on a successful proc from Hammer Shot, which is not at all 100%. Ion Cell is 15%, Plasma Cell 16% when talented.

 

And kindly heck no. Some of us happen to enjoy being able to kite targets or hamstring them.