Arkerus Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Honest, open discussion. No flame wars please. ------------------------------------------------------- The complaint I see most in this forum is: Lack of end game content. When posed with the question "Have you beaten all the end game/hard mode content and have a full set of gear?" they will usually answer no. There is usually the claim that they don't want to or they assume they can beat it. (Yes, that is an assumption, but I see quite often.) So...for those of you who say the game lacks end game content please expand on what you want to see at end game. If you haven't beaten all the end game content, and you don't have a full set of gear, please explain why that doesn't equate to end game content. Edited February 4, 2012 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice_Nihilim Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Its easy to beat. Just because you haven't done the same dungeon AGAIN on Nightmare mode (same mobs, same fights, more HP on bosses) doesn't mean you should desire to either. Operations with multiple settings, so that they can continue to use 2 of them, is kinda a waste. HM FP's are all on farm. Am I missing some gear pieces? sure. Do I really care anymore about them? not really, do I really want to do EV a 20 more times to hope for a drop? not particularly. The only thing restricting success at that point is dungeon timers, not the difficulty and entertainment value of the end game content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Honest, open discussion. No flame wars please. ------------------------------------------------------- The complaint I see most in this forum is: Lack of end game content. When posed with the question "Have you beaten all the end game/hard mode content and have a full set of gear?" they will usually answer no. There is usually the claim that they don't want to or they assume they can beat it. (Yes, that is an assumption, but I see quite often.) So...for those of you who say the game lacks end game content please expand on what you want to see at end game. If you haven't beaten all the end game content, and you don't have a full set of gear, please explain why that doesn't equate to end game content. most of the trolls that said there was no end game content had never reached end game to begin with. They just heard someone else say it so they parroted it. pefect example this guy is talking about it as if he actually tried it. He didn't even know what Ilum is yet he is talking about it like its the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lendaugy Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 My end game review... I Can sit in illum hoping more republic log in I can run warzones ( which ive been doing since level 10 ) I can run dailies on belsavis, space or ilum... I can sit for hours and try to run "progressively" ( gna do the finger quotes here "Harder") Flashpoints which is old because if you've ran them once.. its basically the same thing with harder mobs.. I can sit for hours looking for an op to join End game is a HOOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 But the end game content IS easy to beat, if you have the gear. It's all about gear progression, not much actual difficulty yet in the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafkin Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Its mostly because so much of the end game is buggy. Even Eternity Vault, which has had the most time to be tested, is still buggy. And don't get me started on auto assinging raid loot. We ran 8 man EV last night and one sorceror got loot off EVERY boss. A couple people got nothing the whole night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeiphiel Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) The lack of end-game content complaints comes from the following "people": internet trolls (intentionally complaining to flame) and inexperienced mmorpgs that don't realize a young post-launch mmorpg rarely has any end-game content at all. WoW didn't have end-game content for 7+ months after the launch, had even more bug/glitches than SWTOR now, and worse lag issues too. Really all one needs to do in order to avoided complaining about the lack of end-game content is research the history of mmorpg launches and employ critical thinking skills. SWTOR is actually doing exceptionally well for the post-launch time frame it's in now. Edited February 4, 2012 by Seeiphiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bregah Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 So...for those of you who say the game lacks end game content please expand on what you want to see at end game. If you haven't beaten all the end game content, and you don't have a full set of gear, please explain why that doesn't equate to end game content. I've never complained about a "lack of end-game content", but I can see why someone would. My experience (before I re-rolled on a server with actual population - which I didn't think I ever would) with "end game" is that there's not a ton of it. But I never expected a ton of it from a new game (I expected more features from a new game, and better ones, but not "content"). I've tanked all but 1 of the 50 HM Flashpoints (heard that Directive 7 was bugged, so we never went there), and then we heard Normal Mode EV was easier than most 50 HM FPs, so we sort of on the spur of the moment went there as a guild, and beat the 1st 2 bosses the first time we went in, in about 90 minutes. I would not call us a "pro" guild at all, but we're also not bad players. I would also say that the amount of gear you have, and the number of different modes you beat something on really don't matter to "finishing the game". Some people (myself included) mostly want to "see the content". To bring up WoW and the LK expansion, after my guild beat LK 25 man (the day before the 1st ICC buff), I felt I was "done", and stopped raiding. Most of my guild kept going in Heroics. That being said, 4 months later, to play with friends, we started some ICC 10 Heroic runs (and in the end I got 3 toons drakes), but I didn't do that to "beat the game", but to do stuff with friends. I also didn't see any NEW content doing that, and learned to HATE Sindragosa's voice actress with a passion that runs so deep I can't tell you where that hate ends and my soul begins. But if my LK experience (with regards to raiding) had ended the day we killed LK 25 man, I would still have been content with how much content I'd done. I wasn't fully geared in ICC 25 man stuff (close), and had done only lootship on heroic. If, in TOR, I clear both Karraga's and EV on normal, there are no new fights to see (at the moment). At that point it becomes a question of "is the time spent doing this enjoyable enough to keep doing it?". The gear upgrades are minimal (I think, could be wrong), and it's not, really, new content. I kind of equate hard mode/heroic versions of raiding to New Game + in consoles. I don't ever feel I have to beat a game in New Game + to "beat the game". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragvakten Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Its easy to beat. Just because you haven't done the same dungeon AGAIN on Nightmare mode (same mobs, same fights, more HP on bosses) doesn't mean you should desire to either. Operations with multiple settings, so that they can continue to use 2 of them, is kinda a waste. HM FP's are all on farm. Am I missing some gear pieces? sure. Do I really care anymore about them? not really, do I really want to do EV a 20 more times to hope for a drop? not particularly. The only thing restricting success at that point is dungeon timers, not the difficulty and entertainment value of the end game content. So what you are basically saying is that you are not the farming type of person? What are you doing playing an mmorpg? The whole process is to collect gear, when this has been done you move on to another character or move on to another game. Now the content being to easy is another matter but again I feel most people tend to demand the same level of progress from swtor that Wow has. This game has been out for a little over a month, give it time before you demand the same of Bioware that it took Blizzard several years to deliver on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Not all end game content appeals to all players. Many people do not enjoy raiding and do not enjoy PvP. For them all that is left is flashpoints (quickly done those), daily quests (can be quickly done those or too bored to keep doing them) and a bit of exploration (not much to do there). Bioware needs to release entire new planets of PvE questing with their major updates, not just Ops and flashpoints and a few new dailies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Its easy to beat. Just because you haven't done the same dungeon AGAIN on Nightmare mode (same mobs, same fights, more HP on bosses) doesn't mean you should desire to either. But you haven't actually beat it, right? YOu have not cleared end game, right? Beyond that, the statement does not make sense. Should nightmare mode on the same dungeon be, um, a different dungeon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevoli Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Just like with anything else, there are leaders, and there are followers. Followers tend to parrot everything they see about the current "big thing". A bandwagon load of people came over from WoW since SW:ToR was supposed to be equivalent to the second coming, I'm assuming it didn't live up to the hype in their eyes. What do people do when something doesn't live up to their expectations? They talk $@^! about it, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 most of the trolls that said there was no end game content had never reached end game to begin with. They just heard someone else say it so they parroted it. pefect example this guy is talking about it as if he actually tried it. He didn't even know what Ilum is yet he is talking about it like its the end of the world. Exactly. This same thing happened in Wow, and continues to. First thing I always did when someone complained about new content being too easy is to check their Armory only to find out that they had not cleared it. Some had never even raided current content. Others never did a single hard mode. Likewise, when someone that actually raided had comments, they were usually in the constructive criticism realm, or discussing tuning a particular aspect of a fight or boss, not "end game sucks". LOL Honestly. I'm not really in a hurry to get there, but part of me wants more real raiders to get there, test the content and start putting out some viable post that will actually help us and help the dev team tune and perfect it.....as well as shutting down all these "end game suxors," parrots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProspectorPete Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The lack of end-game content complaints comes from the following "people": internet trolls (intentionally complaining to flame) and inexperienced mmorpgs that don't realize a young post-launch mmorpg rarely has any end-game content at all. WoW didn't have end-game content for 7+ months after the launch, had even more bug/glitches than SWTOR now, and worse lag issues too. Really all one needs to do in order to avoided complaining about the lack of end-game content is research the history of mmorpg launches and employ critical thinking skills. SWTOR is actually doing exceptionally well for the post-launch time frame it's in now. You have no idea what your talking about. The only real issue with wow when it launched was a massive amount of lag. I ran into very few bugs in wow end game which consisted of ubrs until Molten core came out. I have only ever not been able to finish one raid/dungeon twice in the entire time since it came out. One of those times a gm reset our lock timer for the raid so we could do it again. Im at 6 in swtor in the first month an a half. Some of them were not even hard modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProspectorPete Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 But you haven't actually beat it, right? YOu have not cleared end game, right? Beyond that, the statement does not make sense. Should nightmare mode on the same dungeon be, um, a different dungeon? Thats one of the reasons I stopped playing wow. Running the same dungeon 123123123123 times and then double that if you have an alt you would like to play is not content, its rehashed bullpucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beergogglez Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 as a player who beat both raids on NM 16man ..it was the easiest content in all of my MMo history Eq2, maplestory, Wow.Rift. My guild raids only 1 night to down both raids. Honestly we skipped the "Hardmode 4 mans" and jumped straight into normal 16 man to get gear. The bosses themselves DROP TOO MUCH LOOT. The whole loot table drops on 1 boss kill ***? Again there is no point to 4 man. Jump right into normal from quest gear. You get geared out TOO fast since the bosses drop a megaton of loot and it's so easy. So yeah. i'm lvling alts and getting them geared out for the march raid. If the march raid is as faceroll easy ..i expect everyone to unsub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lendaugy Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Thats one of the reasons I stopped playing wow. Running the same dungeon 123123123123 times and then double that if you have an alt you would like to play is not content, its rehashed bullpucky. +48 internets for you sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllixyR Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 most that are crying did never play a new mmorpg on release or they come from wow and joined somewhere in the middle of the games life and think all new releases have content a 6 year old game has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lendaugy Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) most that are crying did never play a new mmorpg on release or they come from wow and joined somewhere in the middle of the games life and think all new releases have content a 6 year old game has i started with EQ's launch... you want to talk about Content... Granted this wasnt out when it was launched...... However look at this zone list.... http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zlvlchart.html This is what i loved about EQ... if i got sick of leveling in one area, there was atleast 5 different areas i could go level Edited February 4, 2012 by lendaugy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCrow Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Honest, open discussion. No flame wars please. ------------------------------------------------------- The complaint I see most in this forum is: Lack of end game content. When posed with the question "Have you beaten all the end game/hard mode content and have a full set of gear?" they will usually answer no. There is usually the claim that they don't want to or they assume they can beat it. (Yes, that is an assumption, but I see quite often.) there is one simply reason of that...hard core raiders and people devoted to pve already left after see whats wrong with this game in first month. thats why from those who stayed not too many cleaned everything besides cleaning everything is not a factor really... because its not matter of skill and experience but time in this game... obtaining end game gear is just brainless grinding.. and saying "lack of end game content" we means real content... raids(24 men)... only for skilled players(attunement system preventing noobs going in) if this all is missing how you wanna get real players(hard core raiders) here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyrab Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 It's funny, if BW put all of their effort into end game, then the leveling process would have taken a hit, and everyone would have been upset about that. Probably the same people. Complainers complain. It's just what they do. Give them a hundred dollar bill, and they complain that they didn't get it sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellcsf Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Short answer to the OP: Because you are not stupid and quickly notice that it all goes down to grinding gear, which can be made in 1 week, and thats it, you're bored. You have nothing to do once you reached valor 60 and have your champ gear. PVP in ilum is a joke, so are the WZs, especially if you already grinded your gear. That's what happens when they try to clone WoW in a sloppy way. Cloning WoW's pvp it's already a bad idea per se, let alone in a sloppy and incompetent way. People will play a couple of stories (which are awesome) and hit the unsub buttom, you watch it bioware! But hey, i think they were prepared for this, they obviously did predict to what extent they would profit from such a half-baked project. Edited February 4, 2012 by russellcsf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ujest Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Bioware needs to release entire new planets of PvE questing with their major updates, not just Ops and flashpoints and a few new dailies. Then keep up with the Dev posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllixyR Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 i started with EQ's launch... you want to talk about Content... Granted this wasnt out when it was launched...... However look at this zone list.... http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zlvlchart.html This is what i loved about EQ... if i got sick of leveling in one area, there was atleast 5 different areas i could go level Played eq to on release , if you compair sure they did have huge zones but in general how much content was on those planets and in general it did feel like copy / paste in alot of areas. Also dont forget we where alot yonger than and the first few mmorpg always feel special and can not get that feeling back after a while if you know what i mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ujest Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) i started with EQ's launch... you want to talk about Content... Granted this wasnt out when it was launched...... However look at this zone list.... http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zlvlchart.html This is what i loved about EQ... if i got sick of leveling in one area, there was atleast 5 different areas i could go level You did not check your link before hand. That chart goes to lvl 95 (current EQ). Original EQ went to level 50, with three continents (I think Antonica, Odus and Faydwer). In SWTOR terms a Continent equals a faction sector with attendant sub-sectors. Since SWTOR has 4 faction sectors (Republic, Hutt, Imperial, non-aligned). SWTOR has about the same amount, if not a bit more, than original EQ. Thus you are trying to compare Apples to Oranges. p.s. EQ has been out since 1999, it has been running for 14 years, thus it will have more content than most any other MMORPG. The obligatory Wikipedia link to support my statements EverQuest Edited February 4, 2012 by Ujest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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